ARTICLE: Dead-end Thoughts about God

[STR Ambassador]

Dead-End Thoughts about God

by Greg Koukl

Most speculations about God lead to a dead-end. Here's what I mean.

Imagine a lonely young man who sits by himself every night and wonders, "Does anyone love me?" He takes comfort in the hope that somewhere there's a young lady who cares. She hasn't spoken to him or made her affections known, but he's sure she exists.

"She's probably brunette" he muses, "maybe quiet like me, gentle and uncritical." For years he consoles himself, developing a detailed picture of what she's like. He's not concerned that she's been silent; she's there (or so he hopes) and that's what counts.

Our lonely friend has a problem, though. His belief can never be verified. At best, it's an empty hope, a fairy tale; at worst a sad and pitiful delusion. And in the long run it does him no good. His mystery lover can do nothing for him. He's at a dead end.

Man, left entirely to his own devices, can speculate about God. He can invent ideas about Him. He can wish and hope and surmise. But man's ruminations on God rarely rise above mere speculation. One man's opinion is as good as another's, and for the most part, just as useless. Like our lonely young man, he clings to an empty hope, a sad delusion. In the end it does him no good because his ideas can never be verified. It's just guesswork, a dead-end.

But What If...?

But what if our friend goes to the mailbox one day and finds a letter? It's from a girl who loves him. She's not a shy brunette, though. She's a redhead with fire in her blood. Though she loves him, she's been watching him closely, and there are a few things she doesn't care for. Can they meet?

This changes everything. It isn't a dream or a fantasy. What he holds in his hand is concrete, something he can test, something he can act on. It's a real letter written by a real person who has a real name. She can be known and experienced and loved. What's more, she can love him tangibly in return.

This is the Christian message: God speaking to man. He doesn't ask us to guess who He is and what He wants. He sends us a letter, tells us His desires, and asks, "Can we meet?"

Because God has spoken, we can know about Him. But what if we don't like what we learn? What if He's more than we bargained for? What if He cramps our style?

What we think we know about God must always be surrendered when God makes the effort to reveal Himself clearly. When He speaks, that's the end of the debate.

God with a Face

This is why Jesus is so offensive. If you talk about God, everyone smiles and nods approval. The concept of God is general and benign--no real threat. But if you talk about Jesus, sparks fly. Jesus is God with a face, not the fill-in-the-blank variety we conform to our own tastes. He can't be twisted and distorted and stuffed in our back pocket. And that bothers people.

If God is silent, it's anyone's game. We can speculate all we want and think what we like. But if God speaks, then our opinions don't matter. He's the authority on what He's like and what He wants. We have to take Him as He is, shy brunette or fiery redhead, on His terms not ours.


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[Ryokan]

If your God wants to talk so much, and personally, why does he do it in such a circumspect way? If I was an all powerful God who loved some people, but was forced, by some weird way I exist, to send them to hell if they didn't believe in the diety of my son, I would personally walk up and say hi to each and everyone of them in a clear, God like way, tell them the score, and then invite them over for beer and chips sometime. All at the same time. Cuz I am God, and just that cool.

[Shadow Phoenix]

If your God wants to talk so much, and personally, why does he do it in such a circumspect way? If I was an all powerful God who loved some people, but was forced, by some weird way I exist, to send them to hell if they didn't believe in the diety of my son, I would personally walk up and say hi to each and everyone of them in a clear, God like way, tell them the score, and then invite them over for beer and chips sometime. All at the same time. Cuz I am God, and just that cool.

The point seems to imply that all God wants is for people to get answers right on a theology exam. The standard then is that we'll get to Heaven, God will give us a questionnaire, and if we get enough points, we're in, because we know all the right stuff.

Now the factual knowledge is important. There's no doubt you want to know who the person you're in a relationship with is. If you don't have the factual knowledge right, you could go on your honeymoon with your new wife and wake up one morning to find out that you've got the maid of honor with you instead. (Jacob in Genesis knew a little bit about that.)

Yet check what Scripture says. Those who seek find. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. God rewards those who seek him. In other words, you have to be willing to do your own part in the relationship. It's almost like you're expecting the girl to come to the guy and say "I exist" and then the guy will say "Oh. I understand now. She exists." Well that's great that he understands, but unless he acts on that, he's going to be lonely.

God has given enough evidence of his existence that it is not a blind leap in the dark. He has made enough clear that it is a reasonable position to believe in Christianity. However, he has also hidden himself enough so that no one will be forced to be in a relationship with him.

And even if something like what you're suggesting happened, for the person who didn't want to believe in Christianity, they would find a way to explain it away. Somehow, the beer and chips with God would be turned into a delusion of some sort and explained away.

Conclusion: God is there if one seeks him. While God desires a relationship with his creation, he also leaves it for those who seek him.

[Ryokan]

The point seems to imply that all God wants is for people to get answers right on a theology exam. The standard then is that we'll get to Heaven, God will give us a questionnaire, and if we get enough points, we're in, because we know all the right stuff.
No, but it would pretty much prevent anyone from being an honest doubter.
Now the factual knowledge is important. There's no doubt you want to know who the person you're in a relationship with is. If you don't have the factual knowledge right, you could go on your honeymoon with your new wife and wake up one morning to find out that you've got the maid of honor with you instead. (Jacob in Genesis knew a little bit about that.)

Yet check what Scripture says. Those who seek find. You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. God rewards those who seek him. In other words, you have to be willing to do your own part in the relationship. It's almost like you're expecting the girl to come to the guy and say "I exist" and then the guy will say "Oh. I understand now. She exists." Well that's great that he understands, but unless he acts on that, he's going to be lonely. True, but the girl says, I exist. She doesn't have 3000 year old book of dubious authenticity say it.

God has given enough evidence of his existence that it is not a blind leap in the dark. He has made enough clear that it is a reasonable position to believe in Christianity. However, he has also hidden himself enough so that no one will be forced to be in a relationship with him. Huh. I don't force people into relationship with me, and I go up and talk to them.

And even if something like what you're suggesting happened, for the person who didn't want to believe in Christianity, they would find a way to explain it away. Somehow, the beer and chips with God would be turned into a delusion of some sort and explained away. That's fine. i love to have the opportunity to explain away the delusion.

Conclusion: God is there if one seeks him. While God desires a relationship with his creation, he also leaves it for those who seek him.If you don't believe in honest doubt, I respect that, but are conversation is pointless, because you think I am deluded, or something.

[Shadow Phoenix]

No, but it would pretty much prevent anyone from being an honest doubter.

There's also another fine point hidden. The implication is that if God has a relationship with us, it has to be on our terms and not his. Frankly, if it was on my terms, there are a lot of things I would love to change. I don't have a right to make the rules though. If God created us, which I believe there is strong evidence that he did, and even if one comes from the atheistic position the point can still be seen, if there is a God, who are we to tell him how he is to relate to us?

True, but the girl says, I exist. She doesn't have 3000 year old book of dubious authenticity say it.

That's for another thread, but has God left us a book and said "Do nothing? Just believe it?" No. For many people like myself, there are many reasons why we should trust the book and they go far beyond feelings. How do we find those reasons? By seeking.

Huh. I don't force people into relationship with me, and I go up and talk to them.

And not everyone responds the same way to that. I'm the shy and introverted type. If you saw me on the street, and I didn't know you, and you walked up and started a conversation, I would be thinking, "Please go away. I don't know you and you're making me highly uncomfortable right now." I may be passive, but you have shown yourself to me and now I'm forced to respond in some way be it ignoring you, talking back, or some other action.

That's fine. i love to have the opportunity to explain away the delusion.

So are you admitting that if this happened you'd explain it away? Then why ask for it to happen to begin with?

If you don't believe in honest doubt, I respect that, but are conversation is pointless, because you think I am deluded, or something.

Nothing said about you. Just your claim. There's no problem with doubt. Doubt is natural. It's what one does with doubt. Scripturally though, those who seek find. Thus, when it comes to truly seeking God, there are three categories.

Those who have sought and have found.
Those who are seeking and will find.
Those who are seeking.

[Ryokan]

There's also another fine point hidden. The implication is that if God has a relationship with us, it has to be on our terms and not his. Frankly, if it was on my terms, there are a lot of things I would love to change. I don't have a right to make the rules though. If God created us, which I believe there is strong evidence that he did, and even if one comes from the atheistic position the point can still be seen, if there is a God, who are we to tell him how he is to relate to us?
I am not telling him how he should. I am saying, would that be a heck of alot more effective? What purpose does God have behind his terms? it doesn't seem to me a loving God would behave in the fashion he does.


That's for another thread, but has God left us a book and said "Do nothing? Just believe it?" No. For many people like myself, there are many reasons why we should trust the book and they go far beyond feelings. How do we find those reasons? By seeking. Since I don't believe, I am not seeking?



And not everyone responds the same way to that. I'm the shy and introverted type. If you saw me on the street, and I didn't know you, and you walked up and started a conversation, I would be thinking, "Please go away. I don't know you and you're making me highly uncomfortable right now." I may be passive, but you have shown yourself to me and now I'm forced to respond in some way be it ignoring you, talking back, or some other action. True, but many doubters aren't. Couldn't God, being all knowing and powerful, customize his response to each person.



So are you admitting that if this happened you'd explain it away? Then why ask for it to happen to begin with? If it was convincing, and an all powerful God should be powerful enough to be convincing, then no I wouldn't. Have verifiable clear knowledge a God exists doesn't damage free will or force obdience.



Nothing said about you. Just your claim. There's no problem with doubt. Doubt is natural. It's what one does with doubt. Scripturally though, those who seek find. Thus, when it comes to truly seeking God, there are three categories.

Those who have sought and have found.
Those who are seeking and will find.
Those who are seeking.I don't think we make the same fundamental assumptions about tlife, and until we do, I just don't think this is going to be fruitful.

[Shadow Phoenix]

I am not telling him how he should. I am saying, would that be a heck of alot more effective? What purpose does God have behind his terms? it doesn't seem to me a loving God would behave in the fashion he does.

But that's still saying God is going for the right answers to a theological exam. Yes. God is a loving God. He has presented himself in such a way that there's enough evidence that one can say "It's a reasonable position to say that God exists and has revealed himself in Christ" or to say instead "I choose to not believe.

Since I don't believe, I am not seeking?

There's only three categories. Whether your questions are trying to poke holes or fill in gaps, I cannot say.


True, but many doubters aren't. Couldn't God, being all knowing and powerful, customize his response to each person.

This isn't about what God could do but what he did do. Why doesn't he do what you want? Because first off, you or I are not the authority. He is. Secondly, a person has a choice in the matter still. If you want God to take control of your thoughts like this, then there's really no need for him to appear. All he has to do is zap away the ability to choose. Such a relationship would have no love in it though.


If it was convincing, and an all powerful God should be powerful enough to be convincing, then no I wouldn't. Have verifiable clear knowledge a God exists doesn't damage free will or force obdience.

The resurrection was enough evidence, yet it wasn't believed. I would say why should anyone try to explain away even what we have now? Even if evolution was true, which I would say it isn't and that's another thread altogether, that still would not show that God does not exist. We could have a more Deistic concept, but it would not disprove his existence. The attempt to find any other explanation shows that man doesn't want to accept the conclusion that God exists.


I don't think we make the same fundamental assumptions about tlife, and until we do, I just don't think this is going to be fruitful.

That never stopped Christian-Non-Christian dialogue before.