I might have to become a Wiccan

[Meh_Gerbil]

The little pagan next door is so polite, and he's only 11.

He came to my door last night:

"Is Margo home", he asked.

"No, she is not.", I replied.

"When will she be home?", he asked.

"At about 9:00PM"

"Oh, that is my curfew. By the way, it is okay for me to come onto the porch to knock at your door, isn't it? Some people get upset when I do that."

"It is quite acceptable."

"Thank you, I'll be back tomorrow at 4:00".

"That would be fine, have a pleasent evening."

--------------------------------------------------------------

If the kid actually shows up at 4:00 today, I'm gonna convert my kids to paganism and then have them get saved back to the true faith moments before they die. (1)

:ahem:


------------------------
NOTES:
1: Nothing to see but troll here people, move it along.

[tmancour]

The little pagan next door is so polite, and he's only 11.

He came to my door last night:

"Is Margo home", he asked.

"No, she is not.", I replied.

"When will she be home?", he asked.

"At about 9:00PM"

"Oh, that is my curfew. By the way, it is okay for me to come onto the porch to knock at your door, isn't it? Some people get upset when I do that."

"It is quite acceptable."

"Thank you, I'll be back tomorrow at 4:00".

"That would be fine, have a pleasent evening."

--------------------------------------------------------------

If the kid actually shows up at 4:00 today, I'm gonna convert my kids to paganism and then have them get saved back to the true faith moments before they die. (1)

:ahem:


------------------------
NOTES:
1: Nothing to see but troll here people, move it along.



I'm so proud! Please pass along to him that the High Druid of Durham has heard of his politeness and is pleased! Blessings to him!

I've noticed that a lot of Pagan children are polite (by no means all -- there are monsters in every group). I think one reason for this is that Pagans often emphasize respect and some kind of chivalric code in the raising of their children. My oldest boy is polite to a fault, and when corrected about some point of politeness he immediately incorporates it into his personal system. My little girl is another story -- but she's only 3, so I'm hoping she comes around soon. If not, then there is always military school . . . :lol:

Arion

[furay]

The Wiccans that I knew in High School were some of the friendliest people I've ever associated with. Still, if I were to pick a religion based on nice people I think Mormonism would be at the top of the list.

[Lizard]

The Wiccans that I knew in High School were some of the friendliest people I've ever associated with. Still, if I were to pick a religion based on nice people I think Mormonism would be at the top of the list.

:yeahthat:

Both pagans and Mormons could teach a lot of Christians about respect and manners. I wish I could say that my kids had perfect manners, but they do not. But I can say it is not for lack of training.

(:argh: Why do I have to tell them every single time to say thank you. :argh: )

[technomage]

The little pagan next door is so polite, and he's only 11.

He came to my door last night:

"Is Margo home", he asked.

"No, she is not.", I replied.

"When will she be home?", he asked.

"At about 9:00PM"

"Oh, that is my curfew. By the way, it is okay for me to come onto the porch to knock at your door, isn't it? Some people get upset when I do that."

"It is quite acceptable."

"Thank you, I'll be back tomorrow at 4:00".

"That would be fine, have a pleasent evening."

--------------------------------------------------------------

If the kid actually shows up at 4:00 today, I'm gonna convert my kids to paganism and then have them get saved back to the true faith moments before they die. (1)

:ahem:


------------------------
NOTES:
1: Nothing to see but troll here people, move it along.
The first step in conversion is chasing the kids around the yard with squirt guns. They get squirt guns too. Everybody gets as wet as an "immersion" baptism, and it's a lot more fun. Wear swim togs. Have fun.

[Meh_Gerbil]

The first step in conversion is chasing the kids around the yard with squirt guns. They get squirt guns too. Everybody gets as wet as an "immersion" baptism, and it's a lot more fun. Wear swim togs. Have fun.

Ah yes... and then serve crackers and grape juice as a snack.:grin:

"Hey little pagan, did you enjoy your baptism and first communion today?"

Muahahahahahah!

[tmancour]

Ah yes... and then serve crackers and grape juice as a snack.:grin:

"Hey little pagan, did you enjoy your baptism and first communion today?"

Muahahahahahah!


Heh . . . of course, if we can convince them to hug a tree . . .

"Hey little Christian! Did you enjoy communing with nature today?"

Muahahahahahah!

[Meh_Gerbil]

OH OH!

The kid showed up at 11:00 and not 4:00 as he said he would.

I KNEW it, the kids a lying pagan infidel stan(1) worshipper!







---------------------------------------
NOTES:
1: Mis-spelling a word is a necessary component of an incoherent rant. Stan=satan.

[Meh_Gerbil]

Heh . . . of course, if we can convince them to hug a tree . . .

"Hey little Christian! Did you enjoy communing with nature today?"

Muahahahahahah!


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

Then I'd have to teach my kid to stomp on flowers for penance.

[technomage]

OH OH!

The kid showed up at 11:00 and not 4:00 as he said he would.

I KNEW it, the kids a lying pagan infidel stan(1) worshipper!







---------------------------------------
NOTES:
1: Mis-spelling a word is a necessary component of an incoherent rant. Stan=satan.
Get it right, MG. We're not Satin worshippers ... we much prefer cotton.

:hehe:

[tmancour]

OH OH!

The kid showed up at 11:00 and not 4:00 as he said he would.

I KNEW it, the kids a lying pagan infidel stan(1) worshipper!



---------------------------------------
NOTES:
1: Mis-spelling a word is a necessary component of an incoherent rant. Stan=satan.


Hey, maybe your daughter is that cute and he just couldn't help himself.
I bet he still says please and thank you.

[Meh_Gerbil]

Get it right, MG. We're not Satin worshippers ... we much prefer cotton.

:hehe:

Hahaha!
I like that better.

You Satinist!

LOL

[Meh_Gerbil]

Hey, maybe your daughter is that cute and he just couldn't help himself.
I bet he still says please and thank you.

*talks in a low, threatening voice*

Now then, don't be talkin' about my daughter that way. Fer as I'm concerned, when it comes to my daughters all da boys be evil doers!

[technomage]

*talks in a low, threatening voice*

Now then, don't be talkin' about my daughter that way. Fer as I'm concerned, when it comes to my daughters all da boys be evil doers!
All dads with daughters have the Eight Simple Rules (http://www.wbrucecameron.com/columns/8rules.htm) memorized.

My daughter's thirteen. Next week, I make a down-payment on a howitzer.

[Meh_Gerbil]

All dads with daughters have the Eight Simple Rules (http://www.wbrucecameron.com/columns/8rules.htm) memorized.

My daughter's thirteen. Next week, I make a down-payment on a howitzer.

I'm looking into rules for my kids (my daughter is 12).

So far the rule is that my daughters aren't allowed to date until they get a High School diploma. I'm trying to emphasize that dating is about finding a husband and that it is serious business.

Another rule I heard on the radio is one guy who doesn't allow his daughters to go on dates unless the boy calls and asks him. I think this is a good rule as well.

I don't buy the whole 'boys will be boys' and 'sex before marriage is normal' nonsense. I'm gonna fight it tooth and nail.

[flipper]

My little girl is another story -- but she's only 3, so I'm hoping she comes around soon. If not, then there is always military school . . .

Probably not this one though...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/03/airforce.religion/

[eudyptes]

I'm looking into rules for my kids (my daughter is 12).

So far the rule is that my daughters aren't allowed to date until they get a High School diploma. I'm trying to emphasize that dating is about finding a husband and that it is serious business.

Another rule I heard on the radio is one guy who doesn't allow his daughters to go on dates unless the boy calls and asks him. I think this is a good rule as well.

I don't buy the whole 'boys will be boys' and 'sex before marriage is normal' nonsense. I'm gonna fight it tooth and nail.


Love the eight rules.

The one rule my daughter hated (she's now 18) but has since thanked us for, is before she could go out with someone, he had to come over to our house for dinner (or Sunday lunch). We didn't try to embarass the kid, but it did give us a good idea of his manners and intentions -- usually the ones we didn't care for disqualified themselves in our daughter's "book" before we had to say a word.

...I also adopted the Bill Engval (sp?) approach. Telling the potential date, she's my only daughter and if you hurt her I'll hurt you ..."I have no problem going back to prison." :teeth:

[Meh_Gerbil]

Love the eight rules.

The one rule my daughter hated (she's now 18) but has since thanked us for, is before she could go out with someone, he had to come over to our house for dinner (or Sunday lunch). We didn't try to embarass the kid, but it did give us a good idea of his manners and intentions -- usually the ones we didn't care for disqualified themselves in our daughter's "book" before we had to say a word.

...I also adopted the Bill Engval (sp?) approach. Telling the potential date, she's my only daughter and if you hurt her I'll hurt you ..."I have no problem going back to prison." :teeth:

I love the conversation the father in "Arthur" with Dudly Moore.
That was classic.

[eudyptes]

I love the conversation the father in "Arthur" with Dudly Moore.
That was classic.


been a long time since I've seen Arthur, don't remember the conversation.

[Meh_Gerbil]

been a long time since I've seen Arthur, don't remember the conversation.

I own the movie -- one of the best.

[NeilUnreal]

I had a friend that I worked with, but we rarely saw each other outside of work. We were in different departments of the company, so we mainly got started talking because of mutual love of books. He was one of the most quiet, well-spoken, best-mannered, best-dressed, and genuinely friendly people in the entire company. In a lot of ways, he reminded me of the archetypical image of the straight-laced, ultra-polite Christian.

I didn't meet his wife until the Christmas party, but when he introduced me, he said: "This is not something we tell everyone, because there's a lot of discrimination, but my wife and I are Wiccans. I wanted to tell you because I know you well enough to know it won't be a problem."

I always feel like I owe him a return of the compliment by telling that story whenever the discussion of Wiccans' behaviour comes up. Mainly, I think, because it says to me we all really have to know each other and appreciate each other as individuals. I don't really remember what my image of Wiccans was before that point -- probably as distorted as many of the images people have of Christians.

I'm sure there are good and bad Wiccans just like there are good and bad Christians, but that night taught me a lot about stereotyping. The belief that our faith -- whatever it is -- is the "One True Faith" doesn't give us the right to label any individual and stick that being in a shoebox.

-Neil

[technomage]

The belief that our faith -- whatever it is -- is the "One True Faith" doesn't give us the right to label any individual and stick that being in a shoebox.

:hug: Thank you, Neil.

[Meh_Gerbil]

The belief that our faith -- whatever it is -- is the "One True Faith" doesn't give us the right to label any individual and stick that being in a shoebox.

-Neil

We still get to burn them at the stake, don't we?

:b_evil:

[NeilUnreal]

We still get to burn them at the stake, don't we?

To paraphrase Ben Franklin:

"We must all burn together, or we shall most assuredly all burn separately." :lol:

-Neil

p.s. You're welcome Cup of Mystery.

[Darth Executor]

I'm so proud! Please pass along to him that the High Druid of Durham has heard of his politeness and is pleased! Blessings to him!

I've noticed that a lot of Pagan children are polite (by no means all -- there are monsters in every group). I think one reason for this is that Pagans often emphasize respect and some kind of chivalric code in the raising of their children. My oldest boy is polite to a fault, and when corrected about some point of politeness he immediately incorporates it into his personal system. My little girl is another story -- but she's only 3, so I'm hoping she comes around soon. If not, then there is always military school . . . :lol:

Arion

Speaking of chivalric code, I'll be making my kids memorise a code of honor and learn to live by it. I won't be sending children into the world. I'll be sending legends into the world.

[Ryokan]

If I can persuade my son to not projectile vomit on every new person he meets, I think I will consider myself a successful parent. But he's 3 month old, so I guess I can cut him some slack.

[Meh_Gerbil]

If I can persuade my son to not projectile vomit on every new person he meets, I think I will consider myself a successful parent. But he's 3 month old, so I guess I can cut him some slack.

Hahahahahahaha!

[Ryokan]

I wondered if I am going to be modded. I just realized this is a restricted area for me. :blush:

[Cynic Sage]

Speaking of chivalric code, I'll be making my kids memorise a code of honor and learn to live by it. I won't be sending children into the world. I'll be sending legends into the world.

Teach him the way of Bushido, Executor-san. :bow::jinroh: :fencing:

[technomage]

I wondered if I am going to be modded. I just realized this is a restricted area for me. :blush:
Shh! Don't make a big deal about it, and maybe the mods won't notice. :hehe:

[Ryokan]

I have emailed the moderators in hope of recieving the right to post in this area of the forum. I am a charter member, so maybe I will get lucky. Then again, maybe not. We will see.

[technomage]

I have emailed the moderators in hope of recieving the right to post in this area of the forum. I am a charter member, so maybe I will get lucky. Then again, maybe not. We will see.
Well, I'm not a mod--I don't even play one on TV--but I've got my fingers crossed.

[Cu Mhorrigan]

Speaking of chivalric code, I'll be making my kids memorise a code of honor and learn to live by it. I won't be sending children into the world. I'll be sending legends into the world.It's a great Idea darthie, but you might want ot make sure you model the said code of Honor For him. It wil stick in his head alot faster than just making him memorise it.

[technomage]

It's a great Idea darthie, but you might want ot make sure you model the said code of Honor For him. It wil stick in his head alot faster than just making him memorise it.
Too much trouble. "Do as I say not as I do" has worked for generations of parents, and it's so much easier.

[Cu Mhorrigan]

Too much trouble. "Do as I say not as I do" has worked for generations of parents, and it's so much easier.
:lmbo:

[tmancour]

We still get to burn them at the stake, don't we?

:b_evil:


As long as we can still toss you guys to the lions.

A

[technomage]

As long as we can still toss you guys to the lions.

A
:ahem: You dope ... you can't keep a lion in North Carolina. Kudzu gives them hay fever!

[tmancour]

Love the eight rules.

The one rule my daughter hated (she's now 18) but has since thanked us for, is before she could go out with someone, he had to come over to our house for dinner (or Sunday lunch). We didn't try to embarass the kid, but it did give us a good idea of his manners and intentions -- usually the ones we didn't care for disqualified themselves in our daughter's "book" before we had to say a word.

...I also adopted the Bill Engval (sp?) approach. Telling the potential date, she's my only daughter and if you hurt her I'll hurt you ..."I have no problem going back to prison." :teeth:


This is a great advantage to being seriously Out Of The Broom Closet and raising pagan children.

Boy comes to door to pick up daughter. Notices pentagrams by the front door, plethora of candles, herbs hanging in the kitchen, Green Man in the garden, Faces on trees. Daddy opens the door.

"You here to date my daughter?"

"Uhhh. . . yessir."

Daddy takes out white handled, rune-encrusted knife. Leans forward and cuts a shock of hair. Puts it in similarly rune-encrusted cloth bag, says a few words in Old Welsh over it. Puts it on family altar, lights candles. Turns back to boy.

"Have a good time."

[Meh_Gerbil]

As long as we can still toss you guys to the lions.

A

I think I'd take lions over fire any day of the week.
Yuck.

[technomage]

I think I'd take lions over fire any day of the week.
Yuck.
Better be careful ... you know how cats like to play with their food....

[Meh_Gerbil]

Oh dear.

Bad news.

My youngest daughter is complaining because the little Pagan down the street curses animals (squirrels, birds, cats, etc). She says he retracts the curse but she's found it quite upsetting.

Now I appreciate polite kids but if the little devil is runnin' around cursing squirrels -- well I get upset when my darling kin gets the black majick worked on 'em. I might stand out on the front porch and due some cursin' of my own, midwest style, if you get my @#$%! meaning.

[NeilUnreal]

My youngest daughter is complaining because the little Pagan down the street curses animals (squirrels, birds, cats, etc). She says he retracts the curse but she's found it quite upsetting.

Talk to the kid's dad and have him pretend to cast a backfire hex on the kid. Then wait for the placebo effect to kick in...

-Neil

[Cynic Sage]

I reccomend using good ol' holy-water.

Nothing works like good ol' holy water, mixed with battery acid.

[tmancour]

Oh dear.

Bad news.

My youngest daughter is complaining because the little Pagan down the street curses animals (squirrels, birds, cats, etc). She says he retracts the curse but she's found it quite upsetting.

Now I appreciate polite kids but if the little devil is runnin' around cursing squirrels -- well I get upset when my darling kin gets the black majick worked on 'em. I might stand out on the front porch and due some cursin' of my own, midwest style, if you get my @#$%! meaning.


That is disturbing. It's also, regretably, a common thing for young/new pagans to mess around with. I wouldn't be afraid to approach the young man's parents, let them know your concerns (in a very friendly manner, I might add) and also let them know that YOU know about the Rede and what it means. Let them know that your beef isn't with the religion, or even with the kid, but the fact that something is scareing your daughter and you thought it would be best to let them know what was going on.

Then step back. And wait. I bet you get a very sincere apology.

Because if the kid's parents are wise enough, they will take him to task not only for casting even pretend curses, but also doing so in front of cowan, and using it as a means of tormenting (purposefully or accidently) anyone -- especially a little girl!

I know, as the parent of three precocious little heathens, that I would want another parent to bring such a thing to my attention. Not only would I have my child apologize, but also present an apology gift of their own making, pick up trash in the neighborhood for a few hours on an otherwise unproductive Saturday, and, depending upon the greviousness of the offense, have a sore bottom for a few days.

I might be a druid, but I'm a SOUTHERN druid. We still do butt-whuppins down here for important stuff.

Good luck, and let us know how it turns out!

Blessings,

Arion

[Meh_Gerbil]

I'm busy trying to get my kid to talk about it, and she refuses to do so. I keep telling her she isn't in any kind of trouble, only that I wanna be here to discuss stuff that disturbs her.

As for the kid (Nathan) I've not seen him in about 3 weeks. He said his father is in Iraq and I'm hoping everything is okay with that -- but ya never know. I'd say something to the mother if he were over here everyday, but as it stands the little guy just disappeared.

[Cynic Sage]

I'm busy trying to get my kid to talk about it, and she refuses to do so. I keep telling her she isn't in any kind of trouble, only that I wanna be here to discuss stuff that disturbs her.

As for the kid (Nathan) I've not seen him in about 3 weeks. He said his father is in Iraq and I'm hoping everything is okay with that -- but ya never know. I'd say something to the mother if he were over here everyday, but as it stands the little guy just disappeared.
Poor kid.

[Krusader]

Oh dear.

Bad news.

My youngest daughter is complaining because the little Pagan down the street curses animals (squirrels, birds, cats, etc). She says he retracts the curse but she's found it quite upsetting.

Now I appreciate polite kids but if the little devil is runnin' around cursing squirrels -- well I get upset when my darling kin gets the black majick worked on 'em. I might stand out on the front porch and due some cursin' of my own, midwest style, if you get my @#$%! meaning.

Mad Gerbil: The disturbing thing here is that we have a child who has obviously been influenced by those practicing some type of witchcraft or worse. This child did not start cursing animals out of the blue. How old is this child?

Furthermore, one of the first signs of severe personality problems is childhood cruelty to animals. Does this child act out in other negative ways? Perhaps you need to refer this to CYFD, or the corresponding agency in your area. I probably wouldn't have my child interacting with this child on a regular basis.

If you are a Christian, then simply explain to your child that "greater is He that is in us, than he who is in the world." That God, Himself, knows even the falling of a sparrow, and that He is Sovereign over His creation, and protects little innocent animals from Satanic curses.

[Cynic Sage]

Cru's right, tell the parents about what their kid is doing.

[jrstruthers]

As for the kid (Nathan) I've not seen him in about 3 weeks. He said his father is in Iraq and I'm hoping everything is okay with that -- but ya never know. I'd say something to the mother if he were over here everyday, but as it stands the little guy just disappeared.

Mom probably boiled him for animal cruelty. Happens all the time in Wiccan families....ever notice that Pagan families tend to be small. High attrition rate.

James

[Meh_Gerbil]

Mom probably boiled him for animal cruelty. Happens all the time in Wiccan families....ever notice that Pagan families tend to be small. High attrition rate.

James

Oh... well that's a relief.
I thought they boiled other people's kids.

[Meh_Gerbil]

I'd like to share a couple of thoughts on all of this:

1: First, I believe it is our natural instinct to destroy -- part of that fallen nature thing. Anytime a person receives power they typically have a struggle over not abusing it. (at least that is true for me). This is something all children must learn. (If I lost you, see all 3 parts to LOTR)

2: Second, children being cruel to animals isn't uncommon, and in fact, where I live it is often encouraged. Nobody around here much cares if you take a barn cat and throw it into the river -- I see no substantive difference between outright physical cruelty and 'cursing'.

3: Third, how much hatred for other human beings is displayed by adults every day. If a kid grows up the the worst thing he has on his record is cursing an animal then he's doing okay.

I'm not justifying the kids behavior --- it needs attention -- I'm just throwing out thoughts that have occurred to me whilst thinking about this issue.

[Krusader]

I'd like to share a couple of thoughts on all of this:

1: First, I believe it is our natural instinct to destroy -- part of that fallen nature thing. Anytime a person receives power they typically have a struggle over not abusing it. (at least that is true for me). This is something all children must learn. (If I lost you, see all 3 parts to LOTR)

2: Second, children being cruel to animals isn't uncommon, and in fact, where I live it is often encouraged. Nobody around here much cares if you take a barn cat and throw it into the river -- I see no substantive difference between outright physical cruelty and 'cursing'.

3: Third, how much hatred for other human beings is displayed by adults every day. If a kid grows up the the worst thing he has on his record is cursing an animal then he's doing okay.

I'm not justifying the kids behavior --- it needs attention -- I'm just throwing out thoughts that have occurred to me whilst thinking about this issue.

Mad G: I've worked in the field of psychology for many years. Cruelty toward animals is absolutely one of the initial signs of childhood personality disorders and often manifest in later years as full blown mental illnesses. This characteristic (abuse of animals) is often typical of the abuser in an abusive relationship - and I've heard this from victims time and again. It is not normal to abuse an animal, and I live in a very rural area as well (in the West), and I know of no ranchers that tolerate abuse of livestock or barn cats. No, you've got a real problem there.

[jrstruthers]

Mad G: I've worked in the field of psychology for many years. Cruelty toward animals is absolutely one of the initial signs of childhood personality disorders and often manifest in later years as full blown mental illnesses. This characteristic (abuse of animals) is often typical of the abuser in an abusive relationship - and I've heard this from victims time and again. It is not normal to abuse an animal, and I live in a very rural area as well (in the West), and I know of no ranchers that tolerate abuse of livestock or barn cats. No, you've got a real problem there.

Hmmm. As someone who has "worked in the field of psychology for many years..." don't you think that it may be a bit premature to state that there is some kind of dire problem and that the child is displaying "absolutely one of the initial signs of childhood personality disorders and often manifest in later years as full blown mental illnesses". May as well just skip any sort of complete evaluation on this issue and toss the kid in the tank right now.

Not saying that the child's behavior isn't problematic....but to immediately jump to the conclusion that outside intervention is required....seems more than a bit hasty to me. And you would tell the authorities what, exactly? Placing a curse on a squirrel and then retracting it really isn't in the same league as say, vivisecting a dog.

Being from a rural western area, I doubt that you have ever heard of a kid, blowing up an ant hill, pulling the legs off of a crawfish, shooting a songbird with a pellet gun, putting tape on a cat's feet, or putting salt on slugs to whatch them dissolve. All of these things are within the realm of observed behavior (and actually tangible). Not all explorations into the darker side of personality are revealations of an irreparably twisted mind.

Simplicity is sometimes a good thing. If it bothers your daughter, talk to the parents and work it out rather than call CPS.

James

[Meh_Gerbil]

My brother liked using a magnifying glass on ants.
It used to really bother me.

He turned out normal.

... although, there is an odd smell coming from his basement.

[Krusader]

Hmmm. As someone who has "worked in the field of psychology for many years..." don't you think that it may be a bit premature to state that there is some kind of dire problem and that the child is displaying "absolutely one of the initial signs of childhood personality disorders and often manifest in later years as full blown mental illnesses". May as well just skip any sort of complete evaluation on this issue and toss the kid in the tank right now.

Not saying that the child's behavior isn't problematic....but to immediately jump to the conclusion that outside intervention is required....seems more than a bit hasty to me. And you would tell the authorities what, exactly? Placing a curse on a squirrel and then retracting it really isn't in the same league as say, vivisecting a dog.

Being from a rural western area, I doubt that you have ever heard of a kid, blowing up an ant hill, pulling the legs off of a crawfish, shooting a songbird with a pellet gun, putting tape on a cat's feet, or putting salt on slugs to whatch them dissolve. All of these things are within the realm of observed behavior (and actually tangible). Not all explorations into the darker side of personality are revealations of an irreparably twisted mind.

Simplicity is sometimes a good thing. If it bothers your daughter, talk to the parents and work it out rather than call CPS.

James

Obviously, you believe that cruelty to animals can be classified as normal behavior - perhaps you should enroll in a few psych classes and update yourself regarding early signs of personality disorders.

[technomage]

Obviously, you believe that cruelty to animals can be classified as normal behavior - perhaps you should enroll in a few psych classes and update yourself regarding early signs of personality disorders.

Obviously, the situation is far more complex than you made it out to be in the post jrstruthers objected to. Perhaps you should learn to make your statements more carefully and accurately.

But yes, MG ... I would recommend talking to the kid's mom. Better yet would be if he shows up again, ask him yourself--and Arion's idea of telling the kid (or his mom) that you're aware of the Wiccan Rede and what it means is a good idea. I'm all for the power of shame in straightening up poor behavior.

[Krusader]

Oh, Justin, I see your back.

For anybody interested, there is a study titled, "Relationship Between Criminal Behavior and Mental Illiness in Young Adults: Conduct Disorder, Cruelty to Animals and Young Adult Serious Violence," Wilson and Norris, Austrailian Academic Press, which examines the relationship between animal cruelty and mental illness.

[technomage]

For anybody interested, there is a study titled, "Relationship Between Criminal Behavior and Mental Illiness in Young Adults: Conduct Disorder, Cruelty to Animals and Young Adult Serious Violence," Wilson and Norris, Austrailian Academic Press, which examines the relationship between animal cruelty and mental illness.

That one's not going to be as accessable to the non-Aussies here: even our big libraries don't necessarily carry Australian journals, or can obtain them. Instead, there's "Childhood Animal Cruelty and Interpersonal Violence," by C. Miller in the Clinical Psychology Review, Volume 21, Number 5, July 2001. I don't think it's web-accessable, but it's a good resource.

The point that should be made here is that not all children who engage in animal cruelty become criminals: however, if unchecked, this kind of behavior can be quite dangerous. True enough, the majority of children who go through this kind of behavior as a "phase" come out of it without intervention, but some do not. For my part, I feel intervention in such situations is absolutely necessary--however, intervention needs to be carefully balanced, and that requires assesment of the individual case that no blanket statement or study can cover.

[Meh_Gerbil]

I saw a picture in People (or Time, or Newsweek) of a dog's head on a stick found in a woods behind Jeffrey Dahmer's home when he was just a kid. At the time they didn't know from where it came.

They think they know now...

[Krusader]

That one's not going to be as accessable to the non-Aussies here: even our big libraries don't necessarily carry Australian journals, or can obtain them. Instead, there's "Childhood Animal Cruelty and Interpersonal Violence," by C. Miller in the Clinical Psychology Review, Volume 21, Number 5, July 2001. I don't think it's web-accessable, but it's a good resource.

The point that should be made here is that not all children who engage in animal cruelty become criminals: however, if unchecked, this kind of behavior can be quite dangerous. True enough, the majority of children who go through this kind of behavior as a "phase" come out of it without intervention, but some do not. For my part, I feel intervention in such situations is absolutely necessary--however, intervention needs to be carefully balanced, and that requires assesment of the individual case that no blanket statement or study can cover.

I'd agree with you. I think the study I mentioned is available via the net.

[technomage]

I'd agree with you. I think the study I mentioned is available via the net.

If you can find it, posting a URL would be great.

[Krusader]

If you can find it, posting a URL would be great.

See IngentaConnect

[jrstruthers]

The point that should be made here is that not all children who engage in animal cruelty become criminals: however, if unchecked, this kind of behavior can be quite dangerous. True enough, the majority of children who go through this kind of behavior as a "phase" come out of it without intervention, but some do not. For my part, I feel intervention in such situations is absolutely necessary--however, intervention needs to be carefully balanced, and that requires assesment of the individual case that no blanket statement or study can cover.

Now that is a statement that I can agree with! It is much preferable to broad-brushing a situation. I'm not a proponent of animal cruelty...just a proponent of proffessional prudence over leaping to unfounded conclusions. Incedently, Crusader, you incorrectly assume that a differing opinion from your own stems from ignorance. I am familiar with the phenomenon that you are discussing...my wife has a BS in criminal phychology (sex crimes)....we have discussed both the studies and the lack of positive linkage to general human behavior. The need for intervention needs to be evaluated on a case by case basis, not immediately reached for as a primary tool.

James

[ozziejeffrey]

I'm looking into rules for my kids (my daughter is 12).

So far the rule is that my daughters aren't allowed to date until they get a High School diploma. I'm trying to emphasize that dating is about finding a husband and that it is serious business.

Another rule I heard on the radio is one guy who doesn't allow his daughters to go on dates unless the boy calls and asks him. I think this is a good rule as well.

I don't buy the whole 'boys will be boys' and 'sex before marriage is normal' nonsense. I'm gonna fight it tooth and nail.

If you impose such strict rules on you daughters, they are bound to rebel...

[technomage]

Hi, and welcome!

If you impose such strict rules on you daughters, they are bound to rebel...

Some do, some don't--some rebel against much less restrictive rules, and some comply to rules that are stricter. That's more of an individual occurence than a "law" that can be generalized.

[Ryokan]

Hi, and welcome!



Some do, some don't--some rebel against much less restrictive rules, and some comply to rules that are stricter. That's more of an individual occurence than a "law" that can be generalized.
Yeah. What he said. I don't agree with Gerbil's philosophy, but atleast he is engaged with his daughter, and seems to be a part of here life. A healthy amount of freedom dating is less important than a healthy family dynamic. His daughter's highschool experience and early college experience may be more boring than some, but it'd be miserable if she had freedom and a dad who didn't care.

[roddmann]

The Wiccans that I knew in High School were some of the friendliest people I've ever associated with. Still, if I were to pick a religion based on nice people I think Mormonism would be at the top of the list.

If you think the Mormons are nice try debating them in LDS.

[James Peter]

Some do, some don't--some rebel against much less restrictive rules, and some comply to rules that are stricter. That's more of an individual occurence than a "law" that can be generalized.

My personal stance is that the way to bring children up is to shape their character positively not to punish transgressions. I mean, punishment is necessary but I'd rather know what my children were doing than having them running around behind my back. To be honest by the time by children are in their midteens I hope to be able to have rational discussions with them about these sorts of issues and to be able to trust them. I know that approach worked with me. If you instil good character in somebody then they will act 'well'. If someone demonstrates they can't be trusted however then by all means punish them severely - but trust and respect should, in my opinion, be the first means of discipline...