PDA

View Full Version : The sound of a trumpet



Obsidian
02-16-2015, 06:20 PM
Matthew 25:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Is there any indication from the grammar about how many trumpets there are, and who is blowing the trumpet(s)? The reason I ask is because I was wondering if this relates to the seven trumpets in Revelation.

As usual for this subforum, please avoid giving me any theological, subjective interpretive stuff. I only want to know what the text and grammar literally require. For example, does the singular word "trumpet" require that there be only one? Does the word order require that Jesus is blowing the trumpet, rather than the angels?

John Reece
02-16-2015, 08:23 PM
Matthew 25:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

:huh:

The scripture citation does no match the verse quoted.

Matt. 25:31 says, When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory.

Truthseeker
02-16-2015, 08:42 PM
Jump one chapter back: Matthew 24:31

John Reece
02-16-2015, 10:37 PM
It is not the sound of "a" trumpet; rather, it is a great/loud trumpet blast/sound/call via multiple trumpets.

The Greek Nestle-Aland edition lists Revelation 8:2 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+8%3A2&version=NRSV) as a cross-reference to the great trumpet sound in Matthew 24:31 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mat+24%3A31&version=NRSV).

Likewise, of course, the Greek text at Revelation 8:2 has a cross-reference to Matthew 24:31.

Obsidian
02-17-2015, 12:11 AM
Although it does support the view I was looking at, I think that would qualify as subjective theological interpretation. Can you explain based on the original language why "trumpet" can mean what you just said?

Obviously, if it is the angels blowing the trumpet, then that would imply plural trumpets. Is there anything about the word order that supports the view that the angels are the ones blowing?

I think a lot of people interpret this verse as Jesus blowing the trumpet to command the angels.

John Reece
02-17-2015, 01:56 AM
Although it does support the view I was looking at, I think that would qualify as subjective theological interpretation. Can you explain based on the original language why "trumpet" can mean what you just said?

I can only cite the best scholars of the Greek NT, including W. D. Davies and D.C. Allison, authors in the three-volume International Critical Commentary on Matthew, who say, on page 363 of volume three, referring to the parallel text of Mark 13:27 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mar+13%3A27&version=NRSV):


Matthew omitted τότε, added the genitive qualifier after 'angels' (cf. 13.41; 16.27), and inserted 'with a great [= loud] trumpet blast'.*

*σάλπιγξ here means not 'trumpet' but 'sound of the trumpet' (cf. 1 Cor 15.52; 1 Thess 4.16).

Obviously, if it is the angels blowing the trumpet, then that would imply plural trumpets. Is there anything about the word order that supports the view that the angels are the ones blowing?

The parallel text of Mark 13:27 (https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=mar+13%3A27&version=NRSV) indicates that Jesus sent plural angels without any trumpet blast being his means of doing so.

Word order is not dispositive re your questions.


I think a lot of people interpret this verse as Jesus blowing the trumpet to command the angels.

Who might this "lot of people" be? Does the number thereof include any scholars of the Greek New Testament?

rhutchin
02-20-2015, 12:33 AM
Matthew 25:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Is there any indication from the grammar about how many trumpets there are, and who is blowing the trumpet(s)? The reason I ask is because I was wondering if this relates to the seven trumpets in Revelation.

As usual for this subforum, please avoid giving me any theological, subjective interpretive stuff. I only want to know what the text and grammar literally require. For example, does the singular word "trumpet" require that there be only one? Does the word order require that Jesus is blowing the trumpet, rather than the angels?

Some identify Matthew 24 with the following which seems reasonable to me:

1 Corinthians 15
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

1 Thessalonians 4
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

In each case, the text does not say who physically blows the trumpet likely meaning that it is not relevant. As God need only speak to have a trumpet sound, no person/angel is required to blow the trumpet.

It might be identified with the seventh trumpet in Revelation 11:15 but I don't know.