PDA

View Full Version : Allowing anger



Kind Debater
02-03-2014, 10:31 AM
I'm posting this here because I'm looking for a strictly Christian response, preferably with Biblical support.

Long story short, with the help of a Christian therapist I'm trying to allow myself to be angry with my emotionally abusive mother so that I can ultimately forgive her. I tried forgiving her for everything in general but that didn't work. Due to my upbringing -- I was not allowed to be angry with my mom, ever, and repressed my anger, hurt, etc. in order to survive -- I have an incredibly hard time allowing myself to be angry. I hate being angry, partly because it reminds me of being like my mom. I feel guilty for being angry due to my upbringing and all the passages that talk about getting rid of malice and wrath, etc. But stuffing the anger down leads to self-hate and depression.

So what I'm looking for is a Biblically-based argument that it is okay in my situation to let myself be angry, that I can let those feelings out in an appropriate way (e.g. writing a letter no one else will read) and not keep stuffing them down.

This is what I have so far:

God gets angry at sin. What my mom did was wrong and was therefore sin and it's appropriate to be angry about it.

There is a time to hate/be angry (Ecc 3)

KingsGambit
02-03-2014, 11:00 AM
Jesus was angry as well (such as when he saw the money changers in the temple). And he didn't simply allow it to fester; he used his anger as a motivation to do something positive (ridding the temple of the money changers). It seems like you're already planning on likewise using yours as a means to do something positive (forgive your mother).

Catholicity
02-03-2014, 11:01 AM
I'm posting this here because I'm looking for a strictly Christian response, preferably with Biblical support.

Long story short, with the help of a Christian therapist I'm trying to allow myself to be angry with my emotionally abusive mother so that I can ultimately forgive her. I tried forgiving her for everything in general but that didn't work. Due to my upbringing -- I was not allowed to be angry with my mom, ever, and repressed my anger, hurt, etc. in order to survive -- I have an incredibly hard time allowing myself to be angry. I hate being angry, partly because it reminds me of being like my mom. I feel guilty for being angry due to my upbringing and all the passages that talk about getting rid of malice and wrath, etc. But stuffing the anger down leads to self-hate and depression.

So what I'm looking for is a Biblically-based argument that it is okay in my situation to let myself be angry, that I can let those feelings out in an appropriate way (e.g. writing a letter no one else will read) and not keep stuffing them down.

This is what I have so far:

God gets angry at sin. What my mom did was wrong and was therefore sin and it's appropriate to be angry about it.

There is a time to hate/be angry (Ecc 3)

Actually I think so far you are on the right track. And truthfully, there is a such thing as "righteous anger." Be angry and do not sin; do not let the sun go down on your anger, and give no opportunity to the devil. Ephesians 4:2627. So you are perfectly justified to get angry. Believe it or not, I've been in that situation and walked in your shoes. I had to survive so I "faded out" I stopped having emotion, and let everything happen. I had to learn that even to hate a person and wish they did not exist was ok. That did not mean I would want to kill them or injure them, I just wanted them to never exist so what happened to me would not have happened. I think it took a couple years, for me to even just be able to be ok with the fact that they were living too. I don't think I sinned by being angry, I don't think I sinned by not wanting them to exist, they hurt me. badly. So.....Its ok. Just remember in the end, you'll never be ok with what they did, but you'll forgive them. YOu just have to be angry first. Yeah thats ok too. YOu may even have to hate them, then just hate what they did. You'll eventually learn to give that to the Lord. That's great. I think God understands it. You can hate what someone does, you can even hate who they were. YOu can be angry. you can rant rave and cuss. and then? you can forgive. The only prohibition is acting out on sinful desires. Anger is good. Anger is Healthy. Anger can teach us not to sin. Have at it.

Christianbookworm
02-03-2014, 11:10 AM
:hug: Hope you get it resolved.

Kind Debater
02-03-2014, 11:53 AM
Thanks everyone. I can always use more input though.


YOu may even have to hate them, then just hate what they did. You'll eventually learn to give that to the Lord. That's great. I think God understands it. You can hate what someone does, you can even hate who they were. YOu can be angry. you can rant rave and cuss. and then? you can forgive. The only prohibition is acting out on sinful desires. Anger is good. Anger is Healthy. Anger can teach us not to sin. Have at it.

This is probably part of my issues. My therapist told me that (deep down) I despise my mother. And I suppose he's probably right, but I'm always fighting against that. Long story short again, I was taught throughout my life to be grateful to my mother, not only for good things but for some of the bad things. I was responsible for keeping her happy and part of that meant reassuring her that I loved her. Most people who knew her thought she was a great person (they only saw one side of her) and my dad emphasized over and over that I had to be patient with her because she had been abused. In other words, the world around me reinforced that I should love my mom and had no reason for hating her. So, again, I feel guilty for hating her to any extent.

Other thoughts on whether hating someone, even temporarily, is allowed?

RBerman
02-03-2014, 12:20 PM
I'm posting this here because I'm looking for a strictly Christian response, preferably with Biblical support. Long story short, with the help of a Christian therapist I'm trying to allow myself to be angry with my emotionally abusive mother so that I can ultimately forgive her. I tried forgiving her for everything in general but that didn't work. Due to my upbringing -- I was not allowed to be angry with my mom, ever, and repressed my anger, hurt, etc. in order to survive -- I have an incredibly hard time allowing myself to be angry. I hate being angry, partly because it reminds me of being like my mom. I feel guilty for being angry due to my upbringing and all the passages that talk about getting rid of malice and wrath, etc. But stuffing the anger down leads to self-hate and depression.

So what I'm looking for is a Biblically-based argument that it is okay in my situation to let myself be angry, that I can let those feelings out in an appropriate way (e.g. writing a letter no one else will read) and not keep stuffing them down.

This is what I have so far: God gets angry at sin. What my mom did was wrong and was therefore sin and it's appropriate to be angry about it. There is a time to hate/be angry (Ecc 3)

Can we reframe the question? It's not productive to ask yourself whether it's "OK to be angry" on the way to forgiving your mother. The reality is that you are angry, which is why stuffing the anger only makes things worse. You are angry, and you want to be forgiving. That shows that you are moving in the right direction. Whatever heinous things she may have done, the path forward with you is to strengthen your own faith, to understand your own sin, to comprehend the depth of the forgiveness that God offers in Christ, setting aside his own anger over the terrible offenses you have done against him. That's the kind of maturity toward which we strive, the kind that allows Nate Saint's son to work with the tribesmen who murdered his father. It will probably start with things much smaller than forgiving your mother. How do you respond when people cut you off in traffic? When the lady in front of you in the grocery store line spends five minutes fishing in her voluminous purse for the right credit card? When someone makes an insensitive comment about the way you look today? Forgiveness is a habit that spills over into all areas of life, and pursuing it is non-optional for all Christians.

Christianbookworm
02-03-2014, 12:59 PM
Is it too late for family therapy? Seems like your mom should have gotten herself some help years ago and not taken it out on her daughter! Not an excuse.

nico
02-03-2014, 01:38 PM
God gets angry, so nothing wrong with that. God gets jealous too, nothing wrong with that either. Like sexual desire, it's OK to have so long as we don't pervert it, so anger is the same (Eph. 4:26). I would say to let yourself be angry, say what you want to say and feel what you want to feel without blaspheming or cursing in your heart. Hopefully the Psalms can be some comfort to you. Remember, the authors of the Psalms were quite candid and wished for calamity and death on their enemies, then praised God for his goodness and for being a rock and able to bear their burdens. I'd use that as your rubric. To what extent did the Psalmists express themselves and how did they offer it to God? Do what they did and you should be in the clear.

JohnnyP
02-03-2014, 03:18 PM
When I have a lingering resentment I try to think of:


Matthew 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

Matthew 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.

I think of all the times I messed up and made people angry, and either was forgiven, or not forgiven and wished I was.

I also had anger toward my parents, but when I became one I found that I made a lot of the same mistakes. For me, looking at myself takes away a lot of the anger I have for others. It's not excusing their wrongs, but it helps me forgive and place judgment in God's hands.

Kind Debater
02-03-2014, 04:59 PM
Can we reframe the question? It's not productive to ask yourself whether it's "OK to be angry" on the way to forgiving your mother. The reality is that you are angry, which is why stuffing the anger only makes things worse.

Actually, "Is it okay to be angry?" is still the question I need to answer. I'm trying to do cognitive behavior therapy here. Consciously, on an intellectual level, I can tell you that I'm angry but repressing it, that I ought to let it out and then forgive, etc. Subconsciously, on an emotional level, I keep repressing the anger before I even consciously become angry. I wake up in the morning hating myself without knowing why and I have to work to get to the point of realizing I'm angry. CBT is a way of rewiring the "automatic thoughts" that my subconsciousness has that cause me to hate myself and repress the anger. I have to convince myself on an emotional level that it's okay to be angry -- I have to counter the thoughts that say I'm a bad daughter, etc. if I'm angry with my mother. I can't progress with forgiveness when I'm having trouble allowing myself to feel angry and hurt and get at the specifics of what I need to forgive.


How do you respond when people cut you off in traffic? When the lady in front of you in the grocery store line spends five minutes fishing in her voluminous purse for the right credit card? When someone makes an insensitive comment about the way you look today? Forgiveness is a habit that spills over into all areas of life, and pursuing it is non-optional for all Christians.

I agree that forgiveness is not optional for Christians. I believe I'm generally patient with people who cut me off, keep me waiting, etc. People throughout my life have remarked on my patience and calmness. I'm definitely not perfect in this area, but I do try to be understanding and forgive people.

Kind Debater
02-03-2014, 05:03 PM
Is it too late for family therapy?

Yes, my mom died last year. We were in family therapy for a time and it had started to help a little, but repairing our relationship would have taken many years. She had borderline personality disorder and would never be completely "better".

Christianbookworm
02-03-2014, 05:14 PM
Yes, my mom died last year. We were in family therapy for a time and it had started to help a little, but repairing our relationship would have taken many years. She had borderline personality disorder and would never be completely "better".

Oh... I'm sorry. :sad: That's gotta be rough. :hug:

Kind Debater
02-03-2014, 05:41 PM
God gets angry, so nothing wrong with that. God gets jealous too, nothing wrong with that either. Like sexual desire, it's OK to have so long as we don't pervert it, so anger is the same (Eph. 4:26).

Eph. 4:26 quotes Psalm 4:4, "In your anger do not sin." What qualifies as sin as far as angry feelings (i.e. not putting it into action)?


Hopefully the Psalms can be some comfort to you. Remember, the authors of the Psalms were quite candid and wished for calamity and death on their enemies, then praised God for his goodness and for being a rock and able to bear their burdens. I'd use that as your rubric. To what extent did the Psalmists express themselves and how did they offer it to God? Do what they did and you should be in the clear.

Thanks. I had kinda thought of that, but on the other hand the psalmists can get pretty extreme and I'm not sure that everything they said was really "approved" anger. E.g. Ps 137:8-9, Ps 139:21-22.

Kind Debater
02-03-2014, 05:47 PM
I think of all the times I messed up and made people angry, and either was forgiven, or not forgiven and wished I was.

I also had anger toward my parents, but when I became one I found that I made a lot of the same mistakes. For me, looking at myself takes away a lot of the anger I have for others. It's not excusing their wrongs, but it helps me forgive and place judgment in God's hands.

Thanks, that's good advice on forgiveness, and those are things I try to do. But in the case of my mother, I was taught to empathize with her, excuse her, forgive her, etc. but that being angry with her was wrong, regardless of what she did. When you are taught that from the time you are small throughout your childhood and into adulthood, you end up with what my therapist calls "emotional programming," and it's that programming that I have to get rid of so that I can make progress with recognizing what she did wrong and then forgiving it.

Kind Debater
02-03-2014, 05:49 PM
Oh... I'm sorry. :sad: That's gotta be rough. :hug:

Thanks. It's a lot better than it could be. Long story short, I realized some things before she died such that I was okay with her passing when she did. I really believe that it was God's perfect timing. A close, healthy relationship between us simply wasn't possible due to her disorder.

Christianbookworm
02-03-2014, 06:11 PM
Personality disorders are sad/scary. I was a psychology major in undergrad. Maybe they thought her disorder was a good reason for you to not be angry at her because she was sick/'crazy' and thus not her fault. Not saying they were right, just speculating on why they would have told you that.

RBerman
02-03-2014, 06:13 PM
Actually, "Is it okay to be angry?" is still the question I need to answer. I'm trying to do cognitive behavior therapy here. Consciously, on an intellectual level, I can tell you that I'm angry but repressing it, that I ought to let it out and then forgive, etc. Subconsciously, on an emotional level, I keep repressing the anger before I even consciously become angry. I wake up in the morning hating myself without knowing why and I have to work to get to the point of realizing I'm angry. CBT is a way of rewiring the "automatic thoughts" that my subconsciousness has that cause me to hate myself and repress the anger. I have to convince myself on an emotional level that it's okay to be angry -- I have to counter the thoughts that say I'm a bad daughter, etc. if I'm angry with my mother. I can't progress with forgiveness when I'm having trouble allowing myself to feel angry and hurt and get at the specifics of what I need to forgive.

I couldn't say that it's "okay to be angry," but the reason I said that's not the right question is that "not being angry" is not an option for you at the moment; your only two options are conscious anger and unconscious anger. You have been wounded, and as you've seen it's not going to be as simple as just "don't be angry." If you're asking whether conscious or subconscious anger is worse, I'd say the latter, since there's less likelihood that it will change as long as it's being suppressed. Romans 1 talks about how the default mode of humans is to "suppress the truth in unrighteousness." I think it's good for you to admit the anger is there, and that it probably makes you prickly in ways that you don't realize, but hopefully you have supportive friends, family, and church leadership who are with you for the long haul.

Kind Debater
02-03-2014, 06:26 PM
Maybe they thought her disorder was a good reason for you to not be angry at her because she was sick/'crazy' and thus not her fault. Not saying they were right, just speculating on why they would have told you that.

My parents and I had no idea my mom had BPD until I learned about it a few years ago. During their marriage, my dad took the approach that she had emotional issues because of her abusive childhood (which was true, her mom very likely has BPD and was very abusive) and that he and I needed to be understanding and sympathetic and hope that she would just get better if we were loving, kind, patient, etc. As a child I knew something was wrong with that -- I knew that she was doing things that were wrong, but no one was addressing the fact that her behavior was wrong -- but it wasn't until I read Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud that anyone told me that I was right.

Christianbookworm
02-03-2014, 06:41 PM
That makes sense. Psychology hasn't really been around that long and we are still learning about how our minds/brains work.

The Remonstrant
02-04-2014, 08:52 AM
It's "okay" to be angry at all times at everyone and everything.

But it's quite miserable.

princesa
02-04-2014, 11:58 AM
Sorry about your situation. I've held grudges for various reasons that lasted for years and some I still have. The other person doesn't care so I'm only hurting myself with this pride (In my case, holding this grudge is prideful). RBermans #6 Post is worth a re-read, it is excellent.

The Remonstrant
02-06-2014, 01:07 AM
I encourage anger when appropriate. Anger at grave injustice can be a reflection of God's character. The problem is that we are likely to go over the top when we get peeved. This is likely why James admonishes his audience to be slow to anger. Repression or suppression of anger cannot be good, however, and I believe the individual who started the thread recognizes this. It really is a matter of processing and dealing with anger, then, for when anger is left undealt with, it will only fester and grow worse.

What bothers me is how we we often add insult to injury by forcing the forgiveness issue almost immediately when someone has been wronged. Yes, yes, yes, of course we are to encourage and exhort each other to forgive the "injurer", but it is all the more difficult to forgive when the one who has inflicted the wounds is completely unrepentant. (Note: some of these persons are sociopaths.) There is no room for closure in such cases. The church (i.e., persons reconciled to God through Christ) can unwittingly work on the abuser's behalf by impatiently demanding instant forgiveness much like instant coffee. Humans are not automatons (though perhaps some would beg to differ). I believe it is helpful to view forgiveness as both a decision and a process. Unfortunately, we tend to focus on the decision to forgive more than the difficulty of processing our pains. Healing rarely occurs overnight. The consequences of another person's perverse behavior can leave an aftermath of pain. Genuine forgiveness for serious injuries incurred is never easy, especially when the other party simply doesn't care and is unconcerned with making reparations. We wonder if we even have the remotest desire to forgive. We may not. It is helpful for us to be honest with ourselves as well as with God. We can play little religious games with ourselves and try to take God along with us in the game, but it's all nonsense, my friend. There's nothing we can say that will surprise God. He already knows.

In short, I encourage healing and forgiveness. The catch is this: one cannot take place without the other. Forgiveness is indeed difficult, but it's the only way forward. What is our motivation to forgive? Is it because we are afraid we'll burn in "hell" forever? Perhaps we won't forgive because we hope the persons who have wronged us will themselves burn. I believe we can resonate with Jonah quite easily. Why would we want mercy to be extended to our enemies? Sometimes we prefer hating. It's so much easier. The journey toward the cross is difficult. It may entail us forgiving some scumbag that never repents. That scumbag may be you or I. Who knows? On the cross, we see a God who is willing to forgive unrepentant sinners and refuses to retaliate (Luke 23:34a).


For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps. He committed no sin, neither was deceit found in his mouth. When he was reviled, he did not revile in return; when he suffered, he did not threaten, but continued entrusting himself to him who judges justly. (1 Peter 2:21-23 ESV)

phat8594
02-06-2014, 05:00 PM
http://www.amazon.com/The-Bait-Satan-Book-DVD/dp/1616381965/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1391734746&sr=8-2&keywords=bait+of+satan
Can we reframe the question? It's not productive to ask yourself whether it's "OK to be angry" on the way to forgiving your mother. The reality is that you are angry, which is why stuffing the anger only makes things worse. You are angry, and you want to be forgiving. That shows that you are moving in the right direction. Whatever heinous things she may have done, the path forward with you is to strengthen your own faith, to understand your own sin, to comprehend the depth of the forgiveness that God offers in Christ, setting aside his own anger over the terrible offenses you have done against him. That's the kind of maturity toward which we strive, the kind that allows Nate Saint's son to work with the tribesmen who murdered his father. It will probably start with things much smaller than forgiving your mother. How do you respond when people cut you off in traffic? When the lady in front of you in the grocery store line spends five minutes fishing in her voluminous purse for the right credit card? When someone makes an insensitive comment about the way you look today? Forgiveness is a habit that spills over into all areas of life, and pursuing it is non-optional for all Christians.


Its posts like these that make me miss the 'Amen' button.

In any case, I suggest reading the book The Bait of Satan by John Bevere, its a very good book with a very practical application. I truly believe the church would be a better place if more people read this book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Bait-Satan-Book-DVD/dp/1616381965/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1391734746&sr=8-2&keywords=bait+of+satan

The Remonstrant
02-07-2014, 04:25 AM
In any case, I suggest reading the book The Bait of Satan by John Bevere, its a very good book with a very practical application. I truly believe the church would be a better place if more people read this book.

http://www.amazon.com/The-Bait-Satan-Book-DVD/dp/1616381965/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1391734746&sr=8-2&keywords=bait+of+satan

Grrr...

Recommending a Charismatic book...

This makes me angry.

princesa
02-07-2014, 05:20 AM
Remonstrants post #22 is so on point and insightful. Worth a careful read, such wise and helpful
posts are what I value and missed most here.

I've become a cheerleader on this thread.

Catholicity
02-07-2014, 06:26 AM
My parents and I had no idea my mom had BPD until I learned about it a few years ago. During their marriage, my dad took the approach that she had emotional issues because of her abusive childhood (which was true, her mom very likely has BPD and was very abusive) and that he and I needed to be understanding and sympathetic and hope that she would just get better if we were loving, kind, patient, etc. As a child I knew something was wrong with that -- I knew that she was doing things that were wrong, but no one was addressing the fact that her behavior was wrong -- but it wasn't until I read Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud that anyone told me that I was right.
My ex-husband had two mental illnesses. However 2 psychologists, and his own psychiatrists told me: as well as a couple of professional books (e.g. textbooks) "A mental illness is never an excuse for bad behavior" He was abusive. But he refused to help himself. His illnesses may have explained his behavior, but his refusal to get treatment, even though it was offered, was his own problem. Hence I had every right to be angry at him.

phat8594
02-07-2014, 10:21 AM
Grrr...

Recommending a Charismatic book...

This makes me angry.

And why would that make you angry? :huh:


Have you ever read the book??

The Remonstrant
02-07-2014, 10:21 AM
Remonstrants post #22 is so on point and insightful. Worth a careful read, such wise and helpful
posts are what I value and missed most here.

I've become a cheerleader on this thread.

Many thanks, princesa.

Also, it's good to see you again, my friend.

princesa
02-07-2014, 11:25 AM
Many thanks, princesa.

Also, it's good to see you again, my friend.

Impressive use of commas.

The Remonstrant
02-07-2014, 01:05 PM
Impressive use of commas.

Always she patronizes me.

Soyeong
02-07-2014, 01:47 PM
Kind Debater, what do you think it means to forgive your mom? What would that look like?

phat8594
02-07-2014, 02:48 PM
Grrr...

Recommending a Charismatic book...

This makes me angry.

Any particular reason why?

Soyeong
02-07-2014, 02:52 PM
Any particular reason why?

He has repressed anger management issues.

Kind Debater
02-08-2014, 11:12 AM
Sorry, didn't realize people were still posting on here.


I encourage anger when appropriate. Anger at grave injustice can be a reflection of God's character. The problem is that we are likely to go over the top when we get peeved. This is likely why James admonishes his audience to be slow to anger. Repression or suppression of anger cannot be good, however, and I believe the individual who started the thread recognizes this. It really is a matter of processing and dealing with anger, then, for when anger is left undealt with, it will only fester and grow worse.

What bothers me is how we we often add insult to injury by forcing the forgiveness issue almost immediately when someone has been wronged. Yes, yes, yes, of course we are to encourage and exhort each other to forgive the "injurer", but it is all the more difficult to forgive when the one who has inflicted the wounds is completely unrepentant. (Note: some of these persons are sociopaths.) There is no room for closure in such cases. The church (i.e., persons reconciled to God through Christ) can unwittingly work on the abuser's behalf by impatiently demanding instant forgiveness much like instant coffee. Humans are not automatons (though perhaps some would beg to differ). I believe it is helpful to view forgiveness as both a decision and a process. Unfortunately, we tend to focus on the decision to forgive more than the difficulty of processing our pains. Healing rarely occurs overnight. The consequences of another person's perverse behavior can leave an aftermath of pain. Genuine forgiveness for serious injuries incurred is never easy, especially when the other party simply doesn't care and is unconcerned with making reparations. We wonder if we even have the remotest desire to forgive. We may not. It is helpful for us to be honest with ourselves as well as with God. We can play little religious games with ourselves and try to take God along with us in the game, but it's all nonsense, my friend. There's nothing we can say that will surprise God. He already knows.

Thanks for understanding. In my relationship with my mother I had to instantly forgive and forget because all that mattered was keeping her happy. I've found that instant forgiveness isn't the same as true forgiveness. I think that in cases like this where the offender is unrepentant, forgiveness is a matter of trusting God to both heal the hurt and condemn/avenge the wrong. But trusting God to do those things means knowing exactly what the wrong was, the ways in which it injured and how much it hurt. We can't trust God to do something if we don't know what exactly we're entrusting to him, if that makes sense.

Kind Debater
02-08-2014, 11:16 AM
Kind Debater, what do you think it means to forgive your mom? What would that look like?

Going along with what I said in reply to Remonstrant, I think it means trusting God to heal me and trusting that he will judge her justly. Doing that would allow me to let go of my anger and give it up to God, because I would not be as hurt and I would not need to hold on to the idea of her having wronged me in order for it to be remembered and dealt with. I think sometimes we hold onto anger because we're afraid that forgiving means it will be forgotten by everyone, including God, and the inherent wrongness won't be addressed, but of course that isn't true.

Soyeong
02-08-2014, 12:12 PM
Going along with what I said in reply to Remonstrant, I think it means trusting God to heal me and trusting that he will judge her justly. Doing that would allow me to let go of my anger and give it up to God, because I would not be as hurt and I would not need to hold on to the idea of her having wronged me in order for it to be remembered and dealt with. I think sometimes we hold onto anger because we're afraid that forgiving means it will be forgotten by everyone, including God, and the inherent wrongness won't be addressed, but of course that isn't true.

When someone wrongs you, you have every right to be angry about it. Choosing to forgive them isn't somehow forgetting the memory that it happened, but is giving up your right to be angry that it did happen. When you do that, you are still allowed to seek justice for being wronged and you still need to rebuild trust that was broken, but you're no longer allowed to be angry over it. Holding on to that right is what prevents healing from coming.

Christianbookworm
02-08-2014, 12:23 PM
It's weird that people say "forgive and forget". Don't think the Bible says to forget that fact that the event occurred. Unless they're referring to love keeps no record of wrongs.

Kind Debater
02-08-2014, 12:56 PM
It's weird that people say "forgive and forget". Don't think the Bible says to forget that fact that the event occurred. Unless they're referring to love keeps no record of wrongs.

IMO "love keeps no record of wrongs" means not holding a grudge (i.e. holding onto the anger) and not bringing it up unless necessary (e.g. not making the person apologize or feel guilty over and over). If someone is a habitual offender and either isn't taking steps to correct the problem or is relapsing, then you may need to confront them on their pattern of behavior.

The Remonstrant
02-08-2014, 12:56 PM
He has repressed anger management issues.

Not... funny.

Soyeong
02-08-2014, 01:50 PM
Not... funny.
Sorry, I thought you were making a joke. If the book makes you angry, then please explain.

Christianbookworm
02-08-2014, 02:09 PM
IMO "love keeps no record of wrongs" means not holding a grudge (i.e. holding onto the anger) and not bringing it up unless necessary (e.g. not making the person apologize or feel guilty over and over). If someone is a habitual offender and either isn't taking steps to correct the problem or is relapsing, then you may need to confront them on their pattern of behavior.

I agree. I was just trying to figure out why someone might claim you're supposed to wipe away any memory of a bad event.

The Remonstrant
02-08-2014, 02:10 PM
Every post on this thread is making me angrier than the last!

Christianbookworm
02-08-2014, 02:12 PM
Every post on this thread is making me angrier than the last!

Really??? :huh:

Soyeong
02-08-2014, 05:51 PM
Really??? :huh:
I'm pretty sure he's not being serious, but with him there's always that lingering doubt.

Abigail
02-18-2014, 03:10 PM
Our whole western culture today seems to involve a lot of emotional blackmail. Emotional blackmail is really repressive and it is something like a modern-day slavery. That your mom had been abused is sad but that doesn't mean that you should have been brow-beaten into accepting any kind of behaviour she dished out or made to feel guilty when she was not happy (which I suspect was when anyone called her on her behaviour). We can be understanding of why others behave badly but that doesn't mean their behaviour is acceptable and part of the understanding is to try work out why they have behaved in such a way so that they themself can know where they are going wrong and improve. All the care and sympathy seems to have been given to your mom on account of her past and in the process another wrong was committed against you in that it seems you have just been expected to accept the behaviour and be forgiving or face the guilt of you causing her unhappiness. I think it is our duty as Christians to try live Godly lives. I don't think this excludes telling someone when their behaviour is out of line and excessively demanding and I don't think it means being responsible for making people happy at any cost (especially not condoning selfish behaviour). Ephesians 4:26 says 'Be angry but sin not, do not let the sun go down on your wrath' I guess this means that we should really nip anger in the bud and sort it out at the time it is caused so that it is not allowed to fester. Expecting one person to just suck it up is not really sorting out is it or surely Paul would have just said it is wrong to ever be angry as that would amount to sucking up everything that is thrown our way. In your case you were too young to sort these things out and the people around you and your mom didn't really help so it was allowed to fester. I think taking our anger to God in prayer is always a good route to go. He knows who is responsible for what and by how much so he can work on our hearts. We are all a work in progress.

KingsGambit
02-18-2014, 03:21 PM
Good to see you back, Abigail.

Abigail
02-20-2014, 08:41 AM
Good to see you back, Abigail.

:hi: