What is the 'filioque' and why is it such a big deal?

[TuckEverlasting]

In another thread, Tizzi said that the 'filioque' is one of the main points of contention between the RCC and the EOC. Can someone explain what exactly it means and why it makes for such a different and irreconcilable understanding of the Trinity?

[furay]

Oh boy! You've just opened a can o' worms, friend. :wink:

Filioque is Latin for "and the Son" and was an addition to the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed by the West. The Third Ecumenical Council at Ephesus in 431 forbade any changes to the Creed except by another Ecumenical Council.

The original Creed reads thus: "And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father, who together with the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified, who spoke through the prophets."

The altered Creed reads like this: "And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father, and the Son, ..."

I'll leave it to others to expound upon this... my head hurts, because of disgusting cigarette smoke from my neighbors in the basement. Clouding up my already clouded mind. Be well.

In another thrad, Tizzi said that the 'filioque' is one of the main points of contention between the RCC and the EOC. Can someone explain what exactly it means and why it makes for such a different and irreconcilable understanding of the Trinity?

[tizzidale]

The filioque - translated 'and the Son'- was a phrase inserted into the Nicene Creed by the Roman Church after "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, Who proceeds from the Father {and the Son} . . ."

Aside from the fact that it was inserted into the Creed without the assent of the whole Church (and the fact that the Councils had condemned any who would add or take away from the Creed), the filioque, I am convinced, projects an entirely different understanding of the Trinity than that understood by the Orthodox Church. I would recommend reading this article for an Orthodox perspective: http://www2.orthodoxwiki.org/Filioque. Of particular interest is the essay in the External Links section: http://www.energeticprocession.com/archives/Azkoul_filioque.pdf, which I feel is an excellent beginning place in understanding Orthodox objections to the theology of the filioque.

rusty

[Agent Yoshi]

Ready for a long read?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filioque

[tizzidale]

Uh oh - the link I provided to the essay about the filioque is dead it appears. Is there any way to upload that essay to this thread? It's really, really good :). But it's a PDF

rusty

[furay]

Uh oh - the link I provided to the essay about the filioque is dead it appears. Is there any way to upload that essay to this thread? It's really, really good :). But it's a PDF

rusty

There is. You know how you can upload images to theologyweb? Well, you can manage more attachments now than just image files. .PDF is one of the file types recognised. Is the essay copyrighted?

[Hail Mary]

In another thrad, Tizzi said that the 'filioque' is one of the main points of contention between the RCC and the EOC. Can someone explain what exactly it means and why it makes for such a different and irreconcilable understanding of the Trinity?

From the RCC perspective, this should no longer be one of the main points of contention. The filioque is not used in some rites within the Catholic Church, and John Paul II even said it was inappropriate in some cases. Benedict XVI may even go further than his predecessor in removing this as an issue.

There are (of course) some who want to quibble about it, but I'm fairly confident that list of people will grow shorter and shorter as more pressing needs for unity surface.

[TuckEverlasting]

Cool, thanks; I think I understand it a bit better now. Is it considered that (by extension) the idea of the filioque also affects any other doctrines?

[tizzidale]

There are a whole slew of doctrines affected by the 'issue' of the filoque - such as Papal claims, eccesiology, etc. But I would argue that the Western understanding of the Holy Spirit was diminished as a result of the filioque and I'm not alone in this. I do not see the Orthodox Church (or any significant part) rushing to amend history and say that this issue has been a big misunderstanding. We have Saints such as St. Mark of Ephesus, who have stated quite clearly that reunion could not possibly happen without the filioque being repudiated by the Roman Church.

rusty

[tizzidale]

I do not know if the article is copywrited, as it is not indicated anywhere on the .pdf document that I have. I will upload it, and hope that it benefits someone.

rusty