Is Gambling sinful

[Pate]

Many Christians seem to think that gambling is sinful. However, when one asks them to back up their claim, their arguments usually seem to be frankly quite silly.

I do recognize that gambling can become a serious problem for a person and in such a situation it can be warranted to call it a sin, but similarly, there's virtually nothing that cannot in any circumstances become a problem for a person.

So, do you think that gambling is sinful and if you do, can you explain your reasons for holding this view?

[wfaber]

Do we include insurance policies (escept where required by law) and investment in the stock market as forms of gambling?

[mossrose]

We are instructed to be good stewards with what God has given us.

Gambling, in my opinion is not being a good steward of what God has provided. Money that can be used for necessities is often spent on lotteries or other forms of gambling.

Insurance policies are a different thing. As was mentioned, many forms of insurance are required by law, like auto insurance.

Life insurance, health insurance, fire and other propery damage insurance purchases are smart moves by anyone who cares about the people they love, and the property they own.

As for investments, they are exactly that, investments. Here in Canada, RSP contributions are the only way to save on income tax payments, and the only way to make any kind of interest.....the banks are paying about 1/4% right now.....

[Pate]

Gambling, in my opinion is not being a good steward of what God has provided.

Why not?


Money that can be used for necessities is often spent on lotteries or other forms of gambling.

In such cases we are talking about people who have a serious gambling-addiction. The average gambler hardly gambles the money that he needs to get the necessities for himself or his family.


As for investments, they are exactly that, investments.

It's not impossible to make gambling on sports events a profitable form of investment, if one is willing to spend a significant amount of time doing research on the different methods available for the serious gambler, analyzing the relevant statistics, etc. It's not easy but it's not impossible either.

[nyaminche]

Many Christians seem to think that gambling is sinful. However, when one asks them to back up their claim, their arguments usually seem to be frankly quite silly.

I do recognize that gambling can become a serious problem for a person and in such a situation it can be warranted to call it a sin, but similarly, there's virtually nothing that cannot in any circumstances become a problem for a person.

So, do you think that gambling is sinful and if you do, can you explain your reasons for holding this view?

Gambling falls squarely in Paul's category of "Not Profitable". (Even if you're the house!)
Let's break it down.

Case 1: You take money from a sucker.
Case 2: You're the sucker.

In case 1, you're not being very loving.
In case 2, you're not being a good steward.

But if God tells me to play a little poker with the boys for purposes of witnessing, I'm all in ;)

[AcousticJS]

Depends on why you're gambling. If you're gambling as a source of finance instead of gainful employment, then I think you're probably on dodgy ground morally. If you're gambling because you happen to have gone to a race-track and want to have a bit of fun, then I'd see that as a form of entertainment no worse than going to the movies (though probably wise to set yourself a gambling limit e.g. $10 for the whole night).

Just my $0.02-worth

[jason]

Many Christians seem to think that gambling is sinful. However, when one asks them to back up their claim, their arguments usually seem to be frankly quite silly.
Leaving aside the obvious case of problem gambling I still think gambling could be considered questionable.

I don't think it is wrong as such, so in that sense it is different than something like adultery or murder.

But at the same time, I think gambling could represent examples of poor stewardship, and this should give us pause to consider before indulging in it.

After all, it can be a very expensive way to pass the time, and perhaps the money spent on gambling could be better spent elsewhere.

And the problem with gambling is that I think it can quite easily be addictive, so although not directly wrong in moderation, it seems like the sort of thing that might be best avoided because it so easily leads to problems. Not to mention it could also lead quite easily to problems with greed as so on.

So I guess in short, gambling is not itself sinful, but it sure seems like a lot of evil hovers around it and is related too it.

Is that a better defense ?

I should note I occasionally put $5 through poker machines at the Sydney Casino, because I will often park there (really cheap parking in the city) and we nearly always manage to win back the principle and cover the cost of parking.

Jason

[Berean Todd]

I have to abstain from voting, because I don't see an option for what I think is the answer, which is "it depends on the motives." Are you doing it from greed, or because you want the winnings? I would say then that you are chassing money and that does seem to be sinful/wrongful motives.

However, if you are doing it for fun, and are not addicted or over doing it, there is nothing that I would see as sinful. I do see it though as dangerous because it is very open to and very enticing to a greedy heart.

[OneFollowingHim]

I have to abstain from voting, because I don't see an option for what I think is the answer, which is "it depends on the motives." Are you doing it from greed, or because you want the winnings? I would say then that you are chassing money and that does seem to be sinful/wrongful motives.

However, if you are doing it for fun, and are not addicted or over doing it, there is nothing that I would see as sinful. I do see it though as dangerous because it is very open to and very enticing to a greedy heart.

Well said. This reflects my view as well. I cannot vote either becasue I do not see an appropriate response.

[James Peter]

Again I can't vote because the question is too broad and none of the answers are suitable for my opinion. Why is it worse to spend £100 on a nice night out at a casino playing poker, blackjack etc than it is to spend that same money on, for example, a nice meal out? Is either worse stewardship than the other? Similarly if I'm prepared to pay £35 to go watch a football game is putting a £10 bet on the outcome of a game and then watching it with friends on Sky a worse usage of my money? I find it hard to say 'yes' to either.

Certainly gambling CAN be wrong, but so can most leisure activities if taken to excess. Everything is permissable, but not everything is beneficial...

[wfaber]

Same here. Hasn't anybody voted yet?

[semmie]

If you're gambling because you happen to have gone to a race-track and want to have a bit of fun, then I'd see that as a form of entertainment no worse than going to the movies (though probably wise to set yourself a gambling limit e.g. $10 for the whole night).
:eh:

not exactly. if you pay for the movie, and you pay for your popcorn, and you pay for your sour patch kids, then you are granted a movie, popcorn, and sour patch kids. now whether or not you enjoy the movie, popcorn, and sour patch kids...that's another question entirely. but gambling doesn't necessarily have a return.

could you imagine walking into your favorite restaurant, handing a waiter $20, hoping there'll be a seat and a meal in it for you...and then being told they're sorry, but they don't have a table or a meal for you? all deals final? :shrug:

if someone does it for entertainment purposes, as you mentioned, i'm not going to be the judge of it...because honestly, i think it's one of those areas of freedom we have (everything is permissible, not everything is beneficial) as believers. i just...i can't see how it would be entertaining.

but yeah...that's my two pennies...i chose the second option.

[ApologiaPhoenix]

I live in TN and when I was much younger, my Dad and I would ocassionally take $20 apiece and we'd go to Kentucky and we'd stop at a little store and play the lottery scratch-off games. Is such a thing wrong? I doubt it. We didn't really care too much about money. It was father-son time and I look on that time with fond memories. We did once when $50 and we just stopped on the way back somewhere and got pizza.

I recently flew to New York. My purpose was to try out for the Millionaire show because I've always loved gameshows and I am wanting to earn money to go to Seminary and not having luck getting a job. Is it wrong for me to use my mind to make money?

Now some might accuse me of greed but even though I don't have much, I always find that I want to give money away. I won't hesitate to buy a book for a friend at a bookstore if he says he wants it. A friend of mine once told me about loving some Plastic Man comics. I went on Amazon just to see how much they were. All the ones he wanted would have cost around $200. A lot for me, but I would have loved to have had the money to get it.

Today, I still watch Wheel and Jeopardy and even Price is Right as well as Millionaire. (For Wheel and Jeopardy, I say you get to see some of America's dumbest followed by America's brightest) Is that something wrong? Can we remember the Survivor contestant who took a Bible in the first season and witnessed to the others on the island? The recent Jeopardy tournament of champions had a Baptist minister even as one of the contestants. I personally think it's excellent for a minister to show himself as an intellectual since we're usually seen as otherwise.

Anyhow, the problem is not possessing riches nor is it even in wanting riches, after all, which of us would complain if our bosses offered us a raise? The problem is in being possessed by them.

That's my two cents.

In Christ,
ApologiaNick

[jason]

Again I can't vote because the question is too broad and none of the answers are suitable for my opinion. Why is it worse to spend £100 on a nice night out at a casino playing poker, blackjack etc than it is to spend that same money on, for example, a nice meal out? Is either worse stewardship than the other? Similarly if I'm prepared to pay £35 to go watch a football game is putting a £10 bet on the outcome of a game and then watching it with friends on Sky a worse usage of my money? I find it hard to say 'yes' to either.

Certainly gambling CAN be wrong, but so can most leisure activities if taken to excess. Everything is permissable, but not everything is beneficial...
Well said ... that is pretty much what I was trying to say.

Gambling is not inherently wrong, but it seems like one of those things you should be a little careful about.

Jason

[James Peter]

:eh:

not exactly. if you pay for the movie, and you pay for your popcorn, and you pay for your sour patch kids, then you are granted a movie, popcorn, and sour patch kids. now whether or not you enjoy the movie, popcorn, and sour patch kids...that's another question entirely. but gambling doesn't necessarily have a return.

could you imagine walking into your favorite restaurant, handing a waiter $20, hoping there'll be a seat and a meal in it for you...and then being told they're sorry, but they don't have a table or a meal for you? all deals final? :shrug:

if someone does it for entertainment purposes, as you mentioned, i'm not going to be the judge of it...because honestly, i think it's one of those areas of freedom we have (everything is permissible, not everything is beneficial) as believers. i just...i can't see how it would be entertaining.

but yeah...that's my two pennies...i chose the second option.


See thats your problem, you seem to think it can only be fun if you win. Just for the record, I personally don't bet on sporting events or play poker regularly but I do spend money on a night out or an afternoon watching a game. I also appreciate that a night playing poker can be fun. Even if you lose the amount of money you staked you haven't received nothing in return - you've received a fun night out with friends. Similarly a friendly bet over the outcome of a game can make watching the game more fun. Even if you lose you haven't received nothing. If you don't enjoy it then don't do it; just as I won't spend money to play Bingo or to go and watch certain movies. The fact that I think a certain leisure pursuit isn't fun doesn't make it wrong for somebody who enjoys it.

[semmie]

See thats your problem, you seem to think it can only be fun if you win. Just for the record, I personally don't bet on sporting events or play poker regularly but I do spend money on a night out or an afternoon watching a game. I also appreciate that a night playing poker can be fun. Even if you lose the amount of money you staked you haven't received nothing in return - you've received a fun night out with friends. Similarly a friendly bet over the outcome of a game can make watching the game more fun. Even if you lose you haven't received nothing. If you don't enjoy it then don't do it; just as I won't spend money to play Bingo or to go and watch certain movies. The fact that I think a certain leisure pursuit isn't fun doesn't make it wrong for somebody who enjoys it.
my problem? :lol:

actually, i don't care if you do it; and i don't care if you enjoy it. i think i stated that i think it is one of those "everything is permissible" things. if you enjoy it, and you do it with a clear conscience, then i'm okay with that. i hope it helps to build fruitful and godly relationships in your life, as well as serving as a form of entertainment for yourself.

i just personally don't see the excitement in not knowing whether or not you'll get your $ back at the end of the night. maybe that's because i was always the kid at home, eating salty crackers with butter on them, while my dad was off gambling. :shrug: i'm not saying that everyone who gambles is like my dad, as i've known several people who do it and have absolutely no addiction to it whatsoever. i just don't see it as entertaining. and i don't think it can be related to a form of entertainment where you pay for something and receive that something. and so i say again--"everything is permissible."

not a big deal. i didn't call anyone a heathen or hypocrite here, so, please try not to tell me what my problem is. :wink:

[James Peter]

Maybe 'problem' was too harsh a word. What I meant was that it seemed like you were saying that gambling was only fun if you won and if that was the case then it wouldn't be much fun...it was more a 'this is the reason why you don't understand how gambling can be fine, fun and safe'.

Anyway I completely appreciate that lots of people have problems with it and coming from that sort of background I can entirely understand why you wouldn't do it yourself. Anyway, no offense meant...I doubt I'll ever gamble beyond low stakes poker with friends or putting a small wager on an important sporting event (or the occassional lottery ticket)...

[Pate]

Gambling falls squarely in Paul's category of "Not Profitable". (Even if you're the house!)
Let's break it down.

Case 1: You take money from a sucker.
Case 2: You're the sucker.

In case 1, you're not being very loving.
In case 2, you're not being a good steward.

Well, I'm not sure why you'd need to call a person "a sucker" just because (s)he happens to lose a bet. (Or perhaps the word has more connotations than I'm aware as a one whose first language isn't english.) A bet can be seen as a honest deal between two persons. Sure, there is a risk involved and one person's win will be other person's loss, but I simply don't see any morally relevant difference between spending or earning money this way, as opposed to some other form of entertainment. Is it "not profitable" to run a movie theatre just because a person may become addicted to movies and watch them more than his buget would really allow? Or is it wrong to spend some money for football tickets?

[Pate]

Depends on why you're gambling. If you're gambling as a source of finance instead of gainful employment, then I think you're probably on dodgy ground morally.

Can you elaborate on what exactly is it that makes gambling as a source of finance morally questionable? In particular, are you sure that the reason is something that necessarily applies to all cases of "professional gambling"? If not, then shouldn't you just identify that particular type of professional gambling to which it applies, as morally questionable?

I can think of many situations where it certainly seems very questionable, but let me offer the following hypothetical situation:

Gary the Gambler has made a significant amount of statistical research on the different strategies of sports betting, and the results are consistently showing that he could make a significant amount of money by applying those strategies. He has in addition to the money that he needs to begin his career as a professional gambler, he has also reserved a significant amount of money for the purpose of securing his well-being in case that his career as a professional gambler proves to be a failure. But as it turns out, he will not fail but instead will consistently make a good profit of his gambling. He needs only 30% of his monthly winnings for his living expenses and thus he donates 40% to charity and uses the remaining 30% to set up a Christian apologetics ministry that will reach thousands of people worldwide.

Would it be wrong for Gary to become a professional gambler in such a situation?

[Pate]

After all, it can be a very expensive way to pass the time, and perhaps the money spent on gambling could be better spent elsewhere.

This would be a good argument against irresponsible gambling. But I think you can agree that it doesn't work very well if the gambler has thought through the risk management issues and is able to control himself well enough to avoid losing significant amounts of money.


And the problem with gambling is that I think it can quite easily be addictive, so although not directly wrong in moderation, it seems like the sort of thing that might be best avoided because it so easily leads to problems.

Many things, actually including many of the more "honorable" professions, can become addictive. Many people neglect their families and become "workoholics", but this obviously isn't a good argument against working, and not even against having one of those jobs that are more risky in this regard. But your point that addiction shoud be avoided, is of course well taken.


Not to mention it could also lead quite easily to problems with greed as so on.

As could any job where you have a reasonably good salary and a chance to earn more by working overtime.


So I guess in short, gambling is not itself sinful, but it sure seems like a lot of evil hovers around it and is related too it.

Would you agree that even professional gambling in itself is not sinful?

[Pate]

Are you doing it from greed, or because you want the winnings? I would say then that you are chassing money and that does seem to be sinful/wrongful motives.

Why is "chasing money" wrong/sinful? Isn't that one of the main reasons we go to work? So what is it that makes money won by gambling less acceptable than money earned by working?

Is it just that it violates the principle that gaining money should always require some effort? This would be an interesting objection in that it would actually be more effective against the occasional effortlessly purchased lottery ticket than against betting on sports after making a serious analysis. Another interesting aspect of this objection would be that it seems to presuppose a principle that would require, when applied consistently, that a person should decline any offered job that would have too good salary. Similarly, if you'd get the greatest business idea ever, which would enable you to get rich very quickly, it would probably be sinful because you'd be chasing easy money.