The BEGINNING OF THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH:

[Jude3b]

Now that was just a circle of words which come to the same conclusion.

You cannot deny that RCC is the original church if you follow any of the off shoots of it's origination. And you can't say that RCC leadership is any less twisted then any others who have had a difference of opinion in the interpretation of the original Prophets in the NT. They have leadership as well and history has taught us the outcome of it's leadership in many denominations. They all have blood and on thier hands.

If you beleive that the Protestant theology is of the children hidden in the wilderness and were prosecuted, then what about the Gnostics, or the Cathars and even the very defenders of christianity (The Knights Templar) were persecuted for power and greed?

They to were persecuted by the church and thier inherited beliefs were critisized, progandized and twisted by the church theologians, and were almost totally wiped off the face of the earth.

You call RCC pagen but you still deny that the G_D of christianity is based on a tribal culture which are the Jewish and thier faith is Judaism and the attributes of thier G_D are spiritually connected to both the male and female attributes and practice the ritualistic marriage thereof to provide balance of the Nature of thier G_D.

If you study any tribal so called pagen religions, thier are many simularities.

Your choice is to practice what someone else preaches, which is an legacy of the RCC as it relates to leadership and faith in all it's sisters of the group as a whole of christianity. It doesn't matter if RCC names the father of the Church Pope. What does Pastor mean? What is Bishop, Deacon?

Forget about truths, only when it is conveniently located where you can apply it to whatever Theology/beleif sytems you proclaim as right. But all other proofs are just forgotten about. This is what the RCC did and this continues in the legacy of her sister churches.

And it is clearly embraced in the circle of words and enemity involved in the sisters today.

SW


Joe, the Bible clearly identifies the only church. Everything else is man made religion:

"Take heed therefore yourselves , and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost had made you overseers, to feed THE CHURCH OF GOD." (Acts. 20:28)

You of course deny the only true church - the body of Christ which is the church of God and attempt to insert the Roman Catholic Religion in its place and you do that without any biblical support whatsoever.

Really, do you think it is wise to deny the Word of God?

[Joe Gofish]

Joe, the Bible clearly identifies the only church. Everything else is man made religion:

"Take heed therefore yourselves , and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost had made you overseers, to feed THE CHURCH OF GOD." (Acts. 20:28)

You of course deny the only true church - the body of Christ which is the church of God and attempt to insert the Roman Catholic Religion in its place and you do that without any biblical support whatsoever.

Really, do you think it is wise to deny the Word of God?

Jude I know how confused you get so try to listen, what you are saying is true. The FIRST Church was the universal church later in about 105AD it was then called the Catholic Church and now as you say its the RCC. The FIRST CHURCH was the Catholic Church and was started in 33AD,YOUR church was started in about 1990 and you call it non-denomination.
IF THIS DOES NOT HELP YOU,PLEASE GET BACK TO ME.

[Joe Gofish]

[QUOTE=Joe Gofish]


Dear Joe GoFish: Again, it does not matter what you think of me. You make yourself seem as a non Christian and a very rude person - by calling people names. If you want to participate in these threads, please conduct yourself in a Christlike manner. As far as your debate questions on Mary. Yes, I gave many, many chapter and verses on the threads that deal with that subect and have discussed and given plenty of verses on the threads dealing with the communion service being a rememberance. You either did not read them or you didn't agree with them.
jUDE LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT,When you take verse out of context,like saying the bible tells Mary gave birth to other children.That make you a liar or just another Lunatic,you are trying to misslead people.WHY ????
Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ
-- St. Jerome

[Jude3b]

[QUOTE=Jude3b]
jUDE LETS GET THIS STRAIGHT,When you take verse out of context,like saying the bible tells Mary gave birth to other children.That make you a liar or just another Lunatic,you are trying to misslead people.WHY ????
Ignorance of scripture is ignorance of Christ
-- St. Jerome


Dear Joe Gofish:

The full weight of Scripture indicates that Mary had other children and Jesus had brothers and sisters.

Please show the verses that indicate otherwise. Oh! you cannot provide any. Does that make you just another Lunatic and a liar? Maybe it does.

One thing for sure. Based on your rudeness towards me, you certainly don't act like a Christian. Just another religious person - trapped in the Roman Catholic religion.

[Joe Gofish]

Are you really that ignorant of the Word of God, that you have never heard or read about the church of God - the body of Christ??

I see it okay for Jude to call people ignorant but he is crying to me about respect,WOW I have said it b4 and I will say it again this is one cofused person.

[Joe Gofish]

[QUOTE=Joe Gofish]
My main problems with the RCC is this:

The priesthood/papacy claims to be able to forgive sin. Thats blasphemy. Mark 2 & Matthew 9. Only God/Jesus can forgive sins against Him.

Infant baptism and the Eucharist are necessary for salvation. Not. How can an infant "repent and be baptized?" Or what if a person is allergic to bread or wine? Does this eclude them from salvation if they cannot take communion?

Anyway Garfish, I suggest you take a look at this website: http://hometown.aol.com/ecsbg/myhomepage/index.html

God forgives sin Mk 2:7; Lk 5:21
Christ has power to forgive sin Mt 9:6; Mk 2:10; Lk 5:24; Col 3:13
Confession instituted by Christ Jn 20:22-23
Forgiveness is through Christ 2Cor 2:10
Is for reconciliation with Christ 2Cor 5:18
Reconciliation is from Christ Rom 5:11; Col 1:20; Heb 1:3
Power is delegated by Christ Jn 20:23; 2Cor 5:18
Degrees of sin (mortal or venial?) 1Jn 5:16
Penance reconciles the sinner to the community of believers 2 Cor 2:5-8
"If you forgive sins ... they are forgiven." Jn 20:22-23
Binding on earth and heaven. Mt 18:18
Ministry of reconciliation. 2 Cor 5:18
Forgiveness of sins, anointing of the sick, confession. Jas 5:14-16

[Joe Gofish]

[QUOTE=Joe Gofish]


Dear Joe Gofish:

The full weight of Scripture indicates that Mary had other children and Jesus had brothers and sisters.

Please show the verses that indicate otherwise. Oh! you cannot provide any. Does that make you just another Lunatic and a liar? Maybe it does.

One thing for sure. Based on your rudeness towards me, you certainly don't act like a Christian. Just another religious person - trapped in the Roman Catholic religion.
Jude Please let me tell you something I'm not trapped in any thing and none of the 1.1 billion Catholics are trapped.Why are you now trying to lie your way out of what you said,If you do not remember this is what you said" The bible will tell us Mary gave birth to other Children and you and I know that is a lie,untill the age of 12 we know Jesus did not have brothers or sisters so what verse will tell us Mary gave birth to other children.And IF Jesus had a brother why did Jesus leave the care of His Mother to JOhn and not one of His brothers,Read need to read and try to think of what it is telling you not what YOU THINK it is telling you.You try to interpret Matt23:9 wrong because you are trying to bash the Church ,not because like you say you cannot be that ignorant of Scripture.Here are some bible verse for you get someone to help you and see what they say and you can see the FIRST CHURCH was the CC.PLEASE GET YOUR BIBLE AND READ EACH VERSE
THE CHURCH
Mt 16:18-19 - upon this rock I will build my Church
Mt 18:17 - if he refuses to listen even to the Church… What church do we listen to the Baptist,Luthern ,ect.
Mt 28:18-20 - go baptize and teach all nations
Mk 16:15-16 - go to whole world and proclaim gospel
Lk 10:16 - whoever hears you, hears me; rejects you, rejects me.
Jn 14:16, 26 - Holy Spirit with you always, teach/remind you of everything
Jn 16:13 - Spirit of truth will guide you to all truth.
1Tim 3:15 - Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.

The Church is the body of Christ
Col 1:18 - He is the head of the body, the church.
1 Cor 12:20-27 - you are Christ's body, individually parts of it.
Eph 5:30 - we are members of His body.
Rom 12:4-5 - though many, we are one body in Christ
1 Cor 6:15 - Don't you know your bodies are members of Christ?

The Church must be one
Jn 10:16 - there will be one fold and one shepherd.
Eph 4:3-6 - one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father
Rom 16:17 - I urge that there be no divisions among you
1Cor 1:10 - I urge that there be no divisions among you
Phil 2:2 - be of same mind, united in heart thinking one thing
Rom 15:5 - God grant you to think in harmony with one another
Jn 17:17-23 - I pray that they may be one, as we are one(the CC was one for over 1000 years,the first and only Christian Church)
Jn 17:23 - that they may be brought to perfection as one
1Cor 12:13 - in one spirit we are baptized into one body
Rom 12:5 - we, though many, are one body in Christ
Eph 4:4 - one body, one Spirit, called to be one hope
Col 3:15 - the peace into which you were called in one body
Mt 16:18-19 - upon this rock I will build my Church (singular)
Mt 18:17 – tell it to THE Church; if he refuses to listen even to THE Church… (must be visible)Tell it to what Church the Baptist,Luthern or JW

Apostolic Church
Jn 15;16 - Jesus chose special men to be his Apostles
Jn 20:21 - Jesus gave the Apostles his own mission
Lk 22:29-3 - Jesus gave them a kingdom
Mt 16:18 - Jesus built Church on Peter, the rock
Jn 10:16 - one shepherd to shepherd Christ's sheep
Lk 22:32, Jn 21:17 - Peter appointed to be chief shepherd
Eph 4;11 - church leaders are hierarchical
1Tim 3:1, 8; 5:17 - identifies roles of bishops, priests, deacons
Tit 1:5 - commission for bishops to ordain priests

Authoritative Church
Mt 28:18-20 - Jesus delegates all power to Apostles
Jn 20:23 - power to forgive sin
1Cor 11:23-24 - power to offer sacrifice (Eucharist)
Lk 10:16 - power to speak with Christ's voice
Mt 18:18 - power to legislate
Mt 18:17 - power to discipline

Infallible Church
Jn 16:13 - guided by Holy Spirit into all truth
Jn 14:26 - Holy Spirit to teach & remind them of everything
Lk 10:16 - speak with Christ's own voice
1Tim 3:15 - Church called "pillar and foundation of truth"
1Jn 2:27 - anointing of Holy Spirit remains in you
Acts 15:28 - Apostles speak with voice of Holy Spirit
Mt 28:20 - I am with you

Perpetual Church
Is 9:6-7 - of Christ's government there will be no end
Dan 2:44 - God's kingdom shall stand forever
Dan 7:14 - His kingdom shall not be destroyed
Lk 1:32, 33 - no end to Christ's kingdom
Mt 7:24 - Jesus is like a wise man who built his house on a rock
Mt 13:24-30 - let wheat & weeds grow together until harvest
Mt 16:18 - gates of hell will never prevail against Christ's church
Jn 14:16 - Holy Spirit will be with you always
Mt 28:19-20 - I am with you all days

PAPACY & APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION
Primacy of Peter
Mt 16:18 - upon this rock (Peter) I will build my church
Mt 16;19 - give you keys of the kingdom; power to bind & loose
Lk 22:32 - Peter's faith will strengthen his brethren
Jn 21:17 - given Christ's flock as chief shepherd
Mk 16:7 - angel sent to announce Resurrection to Peter
Lk 24:34 - risen Jesus first appeared to Peter
Acts 1:13-26 - headed meeting which elected Matthias
Acts 2:14 - led Apostles in preaching on Pentecost
Acts 2:41 - received first converts
Acts 3:6-7 - performed first miracle after Pentecost
Acts 5:1-11 - inflicted first punishment: Ananias & Saphira
Acts 8:21 - excommunicated first heretic, Simon Magnus
Acts 10:44-46 - received revelation to admit Gentiles into Church
Acts 15:7 - led first council in Jerusalem
Acts 15:19 - pronounces first dogmatic decision
Gal 1:18 - after conversion, Paul visits chief Apostle
*Gal 2:11-14 - I opposed Cephas to his face for his hypocrisy
Peter's name always heads list of Apostles: Mt 10;14; Mk 3:16-19; Lk 6:14-16; Acts 1:13
"Peter and his companions" Lk 9:32; Mk 16:7
Spoke for Apostles - Mt 18:21; Mk 8:29; Lk 8:45; 12:41; Jn 6:69
Peter's name occurs 195 times, more than all the rest put together

Apostolic Succession
2 Chr 19:11 - high priest is over you in everything of Lord's
Mal 2:7 - seek instruction from priest, he is God's messenger
Eph 2:20 - Church built upon foundation of apostles & prophets
Eph 4:11 - God gave some as apostles, others as prophets…
1 Cor 12:28-29 - God designated in church: apostles, …
Acts 1:20 - let another take his office
Acts 1:25-26 - Matthias takes Judas' apostolic ministry
1 Tim 3:1, 8; 5:17 - qualifications for: bishops, priests, & deacons
1Tim 4:14 - gift conferred with the laying on of hands
1Tim 5:22 - do not lay hands too readily on anyone
Acts 14:23 - they appointed presbyters in each church
2Tim 2:2 - what you heard from me entrust to faithful teachers
Titus 1:5 - appoint presbyters in every town, as I directed

SCRIPTURE AND TRADITION
Bible Alone or Bible Plus Tradition?
1Cor 11:2 - hold fast to traditions I handed on to you
2Thess 2:15 - hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter
2Thess 3:6 - shun those acting not according to tradition
Jn 21:25 - not everything Jesus said recorded in Scripture
Mk 13:31 - heaven & earth shall pass away, but my word won't
Acts 20;35 - Paul records a saying of Jesus not found in gospels
2Tim 1:13 - follow my sound words; guard the truth
2Tim2:2 - what you heard entrust to faithful men
2Pet 1:20 - no prophecy is a matter of private interpretation
2Pet 3:15-16 - Paul's letters can be difficult to grasp & interpret
1Pet 1:25 - God's eternal word = word preached to you
Rom 10:17 - faith come from what is heard
1Cor 15:1-2 - being saved if you hold fast to the word I preached
Mk 16:15 - go to the whole world, proclaim gospel to every creature
Mt 23:2-3 - chair of Moses; observe whatever they tell you

Tradition Condemned?
*Mt 15;3 - break commandment of God for your tradition
*Mk 7:9 - set aside God's commandment to uphold tradition
*Col 2;8 - seductive philosophy according to human tradition
1Cor 11:2 - commends them for following Apostolic tradition
2Thess 2:15 - commands them to keep traditions
2Thess 3:6 - shun those acting not according to tradition

Deuterocanonicals
Heb 11:35 - 'Women received their dead by resurrection. Some were tortured, refusing to accept release, that they might rise again to a better life' refers only to 2Macc 7

SALVATION, FAITH AND WORKS
Faith Alone or Faith plus Works?
Jam 2:24 - a man is justified by works and not by faith alone
Jam 2:26 - faith without works is dead
Gal 5:6 - only thing that counts is faith working in love
1 Cor 13;2 - faith without love is nothing
Jn 14:15 - if you love me, keep my commandments
Mt 19:16-17 - if you wish to enter into life, keep commandments
1Tim 5:8 he who doesn't provide for family worse than unbeliever.
JUDE PLEASE READ MATT18:17 AT LEST THREE TIMES

[SpiritWoman]

Joe, the Bible clearly identifies the only church. Everything else is man made religion:

"Take heed therefore yourselves , and to all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost had made you overseers, to feed THE CHURCH OF GOD." (Acts. 20:28)

You of course deny the only true church - the body of Christ which is the church of God and attempt to insert the Roman Catholic Religion in its place and you do that without any biblical support whatsoever.

Really, do you think it is wise to deny the Word of God?

I'm not sure why you latched onto my response to reply to Joe?

But you have not made any case for the arguement I've posted other than superstition.

This as it is in all religious belief. As any tribal elder would tell you, that thier rendition of the eternal is true, you just decide to pick which one you beleive is true.

But it doesn't deter from the fact that the RCC is the original church of Jesus Christ and is advocates.

SW

[Jude3b]

I'm not sure why you latched onto my response to reply to Joe?

But you have not made any case for the arguement I've posted other than superstition.

This as it is in all religious belief. As any tribal elder would tell you, that thier rendition of the eternal is true, you just decide to pick which one you beleive is true.

But it doesn't deter from the fact that the RCC is the original church of Jesus Christ and is advocates.

SW


Dear SpirtWoman:

Are you a Christian? This is a Christian forum and not a forum for pagan beliefs of "tribal elders."

I hope you are a Christian.

Assuming you are - please cite your sources that would make it a "FACT" THAT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE ORIGINAL CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST..." Where would one find such a "FACT?"

The New Testament has some "Facts" of its own. It tells us the Words of the Lord Jesus and He said "I will build my church..." So first off, the church is not Roman Catholic - but rather it is the church that belongs to Jesus. Jesus is God - therefore the church of the Bible is the "church of God!" That is a Fact and the Bible clearly says so! It is "the church of God which he (Christ) hath purchased with his own blood" (Acts 20:28). You don't have to believe me, go look it up.

The church of God - the body of Christ is the only church taught in the New Testament. And we can find out exactly what constitutes the church of God by reading the Bible on the subject. Go for it, you'll be glad you did!
Why do I say that? The truth will make you free! And you'll be free indeed!
And you'll be able to say with me, "God has made me glad!" Amen.

[Joe Gofish]

Dear SpirtWoman:

Are you a Christian? This is a Christian forum and not a forum for pagan beliefs of "tribal elders."

I hope you are a Christian.

Assuming you are - please cite your sources that would make it a "FACT" THAT THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH IS THE ORIGINAL CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST..." Where would one find such a "FACT?"

The New Testament has some "Facts" of its own. It tells us the Words of the Lord Jesus and He said "I will build my church..." So first off, the church is not Roman Catholic - but rather it is the church that belongs to Jesus. Jesus is God - therefore the church of the Bible is the "church of God!" That is a Fact and the Bible clearly says so! It is "the church of God which he (Christ) hath purchased with his own blood" (Acts 20:28). You don't have to believe me, go look it up.

The church of God - the body of Christ is the only church taught in the New Testament. And we can find out exactly what constitutes the church of God by reading the Bible on the subject. Go for it, you'll be glad you did!
Why do I say that? The truth will make you free! And you'll be free indeed!
And you'll be able to say with me, "God has made me glad!" Amen.

Will you please take the time and tell us how you become so ignorant in the short time you have been on this earth.
The church of God - the body of Christ is the only church taught in the New Testament. This statement is so right you can't understand what it is saying.
THE VERY FIRST CHURCH WAS AND IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH,How do we know ,history tells us so the, church father tell us so . The catholic Church is the only Christian church that was here in 100ad.,400Ad, 800Ad,1200Ad and in 2006 AD and history tell us the ones that are now called non-denomination got here in the 1990"s. If it will help I can get you a list of the start of all Christian churches.
Now please try to listen the Church was first called the WAY and then UNIVERSAL and then CATHOLIC and later RCC.

[SpiritWoman]

Will you please take the time and tell us how you become so ignorant in the short time you have been on this earth.
The church of God - the body of Christ is the only church taught in the New Testament. This statement is so right you can't understand what it is saying.
THE VERY FIRST CHURCH WAS AND IS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH,How do we know ,history tells us so the, church father tell us so . The catholic Church is the only Christian church that was here in 100ad.,400Ad, 800Ad,1200Ad and in 2006 AD and history tell us the ones that are now called non-denomination got here in the 1990"s. If it will help I can get you a list of the start of all Christian churches.
Now please try to listen the Church was first called the WAY and then UNIVERSAL and then CATHOLIC and later RCC.

You can also add to the fact that the Bible's cannon was put together by the RCC's founders. But I'm sure Judeb3 will deny this as well. And it was Luther, I beleive that first taught a different theology, other than the Gnostics. And we all know what happened to them, and why the RCC was established in the first place.

I'm not an advocate of the RCC docterine by a long shot, but a fact is a fact, and it is well documented in history where all theology of the Chrisitan faith has it's origin's in the first establishment of the RCC. If you deny this fact, then you deny the prophets and thier named successors, which were given, according to scripture, the ordainment of Christ to teach the Word of G_d as he did.

Or do you Judeb3 have something to share with me, as to where the successors of Paul, James, Mathew, Mark, and Peter went? How was it that thier churches were called once they became one universal church?

Or are you a follower of Thomas? Or Mary Magdelene?

Why are there so many writings excluded from the cannon? Why were the Cathars, Knights Templar, and Gnostics massacred?

I ask this question to Judeb3. Are you a christian? To be called a christian do you only beleive in the cannonical text as truths? Wouldn't you want to search for the truths in all forms before making a spiritual decision of your heart? Wouldn't you trust in G_D to lead you with pure heart to his truth?

Or are you a Pagen, as you call me, to compare the history and origin of all we have historically documented and orally passed down, to find your path to the Creator.

How do you know yourself if what you beleive is truth, is not tainted by man's psyche and hunger for power?

The Romans thought that the Jews were Pagen, does that make it true?

I look at the world with eyes wide open and do not deny truths that are in my face. I do not trust wolves in sheeps clothing as is fore told in the bible and many other spiritual cultures, in the form of any named religion or idol, in which I hold man as a form of idolitary, both in form materialistically and leadership as in Cannonized docterine. I hold my faith in my heart through the Holy Spirit of the Creator.

After all, the Creator will lead the way. You only have to open your eyes and your heart as written in your cannon.

Peace

SW

[Jude3b]

You can also add to the fact that the Bible's cannon was put together by the RCC's founders. But I'm sure Judeb3 will deny this as well. And it was Luther, I beleive that first taught a different theology, other than the Gnostics. And we all know what happened to them, and why the RCC was established in the first place.

I'm not an advocate of the RCC docterine by a long shot, but a fact is a fact, and it is well documented in history where all theology of the Chrisitan faith has it's origin's in the first establishment of the RCC. If you deny this fact, then you deny the prophets and thier named successors, which were given, according to scripture, the ordainment of Christ to teach the Word of G_d as he did.

Or do you Judeb3 have something to share with me, as to where the successors of Paul, James, Mathew, Mark, and Peter went? How was it that thier churches were called once they became one universal church?

Or are you a follower of Thomas? Or Mary Magdelene?

Why are there so many writings excluded from the cannon? Why were the Cathars, Knights Templar, and Gnostics massacred?

I ask this question to Judeb3. Are you a christian? To be called a christian do you only beleive in the cannonical text as truths? Wouldn't you want to search for the truths in all forms before making a spiritual decision of your heart? Wouldn't you trust in G_D to lead you with pure heart to his truth?

Or are you a Pagen, as you call me, to compare the history and origin of all we have historically documented and orally passed down, to find your path to the Creator.

How do you know yourself if what you beleive is truth, is not tainted by man's psyche and hunger for power?

The Romans thought that the Jews were Pagen, does that make it true?

I look at the world with eyes wide open and do not deny truths that are in my face. I do not trust wolves in sheeps clothing as is fore told in the bible and many other spiritual cultures, in the form of any named religion or idol, in which I hold man as a form of idolitary, both in form materialistically and leadership as in Cannonized docterine. I hold my faith in my heart through the Holy Spirit of the Creator.

After all, the Creator will lead the way. You only have to open your eyes and your heart as written in your cannon.

Peace

SW


Dear Spirit Woman:

I don't mind answering questions of yours, but I would appreciate it first if you would stay on track and answer the questions that I asked you - before and without trying to change the subject on me.

If you will recall,

First- I asked you if you were a Christian, since this forum is supposed to be for Christians only.

Second- I asked you to show proof to back up your assertion that the Roman Catholic Religion is the original or first Christian Church. Where would one find such a "fact" in the Bible? Especially since The Bible claims that Christ built "His church" and that its name is "the church of God."

[Joe Gofish]

Dear Spirit Woman:

I don't mind answering questions of yours, but I would appreciate it first if you would stay on track and answer the questions that I asked you - before and without trying to change the subject on me.

If you will recall,

First- I asked you if you were a Christian, since this forum is supposed to be for Christians only.

Second- I asked you to show proof to back up your assertion that the Roman Catholic Religion is the original or first Christian Church. Where would one find such a "fact" in the Bible? Especially since The Bible claims that Christ built "His church" and that its name is "the church of God."
Lets see if we can help this Lunatic(thats the name he got from two of my Baptist friends).
The Luthern church was started in about 1517
Calvinist in about 1560
Methodist about 1774 and the group calling themself NON-DENMOMINATIONAL in the 1990s
For 1500 years we had one Christian Church and it was the FIRST CHURCH,the Catholic Church.
Ray Charles could see this ,but a bigot can not

[SpiritWoman]

Lets see if we can help this Lunatic(thats the name he got from two of my Baptist friends).
The Luthern church was started in about 1517
Calvinist in about 1560
Methodist about 1774 and the group calling themself NON-DENMOMINATIONAL in the 1990s
For 1500 years we had one Christian Church and it was the FIRST CHURCH,the Catholic Church.
Ray Charles could see this ,but a bigot can not

Hi Judeb3,

To answer your question on whether I am christian or not is moot, as you are pretty much making accusations that anyone who is Roman Catholic is not what you percieve to be christian in stating it was not the first Church of Christ and is an abomination.

So, that being said, are you christian? Do you believe that the Cannonized Bible is the only word of G_D?

Second, I beleive the attached reply from Joe gofish has given another of numerous facts posted on this thread as to the reason why your arguements are not accurate and if I must say weak.

You can read and decipher the bible verses anyway you want, but what you are currently trying to refute is coming from the very cannonized version of (Constanstine and the first RCC church fathers) version of christianity in the
context of thier very first bible and what they based thier version of christianity on.

Until you add to your very limited resources in this arguement, look at it with an unbiased frame of mind and come to a conclusion, you will remain fixed in an illusion as anyone can interpret what they percieve as truth through a few words in print. But you can't refute the historical facts, because of presumptions in the very words of the source of the data. You can say the source is Jesus, but it is the version of truths as accepted by the first church which is the RCC.

Mine, is open minded, open spirited, and of the soul, just what Jesus intended in his message, so my studies take me beyond the Biblical text to it's source, the true kingdom. Now this arguement is never accepted by your version of christianity, thus your arguement against the RCC church as not the first church is insane. Now if you say that the RCC deviated from the message of Jesus, this would be a better arguement.

If it bothers you that I make comparisions of what you call "pagenism" to Christianity and other spiritual practices both past and present I can't help this, it only helps to establish your very short sightedness on the subject of what is a true christian, but it doesn't make me any less christian then you at this point.

Peace
SW

[Jude3b]

Hi Judeb3,

To answer your question on whether I am christian or not is moot, as you are pretty much making accusations that anyone who is Roman Catholic is not what you percieve to be christian in stating it was not the first Church of Christ and is an abomination.

So, that being said, are you christian? Do you believe that the Cannonized Bible is the only word of G_D?

Second, I beleive the attached reply from Joe gofish has given another of numerous facts posted on this thread as to the reason why your arguements are not accurate and if I must say weak.

You can read and decipher the bible verses anyway you want, but what you are currently trying to refute is coming from the very cannonized version of (Constanstine and the first RCC church fathers) version of christianity in the
context of thier very first bible and what they based thier version of christianity on.

Until you add to your very limited resources in this arguement, look at it with an unbiased frame of mind and come to a conclusion, you will remain fixed in an illusion as anyone can interpret what they percieve as truth through a few words in print. But you can't refute the historical facts, because of presumptions in the very words of the source of the data. You can say the source is Jesus, but it is the version of truths as accepted by the first church which is the RCC.

Mine, is open minded, open spirited, and of the soul, just what Jesus intended in his message, so my studies take me beyond the Biblical text to it's source, the true kingdom. Now this arguement is never accepted by your version of christianity, thus your arguement against the RCC church as not the first church is insane. Now if you say that the RCC deviated from the message of Jesus, this would be a better arguement.

If it bothers you that I make comparisions of what you call "pagenism" to Christianity and other spiritual practices both past and present I can't help this, it only helps to establish your very short sightedness on the subject of what is a true christian, but it doesn't make me any less christian then you at this point.

Peace
SW


Dear Spirit Woman:

Yes, I am a Christian and Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and Savior. I believe 100% of the Word of God - all 66 books.

Now will you answer? Are you a Christian? If you died today are you sure that you would be allowed to enter heaven? Why or why not? What would your answer be to Father God, if He says to you.. "why should I allow you to enter my heaven?

[Joe Gofish]

Has it really come to this, Joe?

You're responding to your own posts now?

Its not that I'm posting to my own post it is beacsue you need to let jude read thing 2 or 3 time and then he will not get it

[Joe Gofish]

Roman Catholicism was formed in the 4th century A.D. Peter was not a Pope at all. The first pope was Siricius. He was the first one to use the term "POPE."

While it can be said that the visible church of God had become so apostate that Roman Catholicism was started about 270 A.D., it actually was not until 384 A.D. when Siricius (384-399) became the first Roman Bishop to call himself "Pontifex Maximus" and a new term, "POPE" (papa). Satan was a busy fellow. He could not kill the church of God off by persecution, so he joined the visible religious church.

Now pagan Rome became the so-called "holy" city. The pope had the religious powers of Caesar and claimed to rule the "church."

In reality the true church of God, the body of Christ fled into the wilderness. They knew that Rome was the "whore of Babylon" and they could see the handiwork of the devil in creating the anti-christ Papacy.
jUDE iF YOU THINK i'M WRONG ABOUT CALLING YOUA lUNATIC,well it is because of post like this. You said the first person to use the word Pope was not untill 400ad. so the other 37 popes are not popes,that be one of you most stupid remark,If we are to belive more of your lies then what about the word "Trinity" that word was not used until about 1250AD so all that time we did not have a Trinity,DA
DO YOU SEE WHAT A WACHO YOU ARE BECOMING.
aND I have told you this B4 I called my dad sir for the first 24 or 35 years and my life and then I started calling him father,so thinking as you do he must not had been my father the first 24-25 years.
Jude if you would just stop trying to always be bashing God's Church and do a little praying and reading the bible as it said and not what you THINK it said you may be a better Christian

[Jude3b]

jUDE iF YOU THINK i'M WRONG ABOUT CALLING YOUA lUNATIC,well it is because of post like this. You said the first person to use the word Pope was not untill 400ad. so the other 37 popes are not popes,that be one of you most stupid remark,If we are to belive more of your lies then what about the word "Trinity" that word was not used until about 1250AD so all that time we did not have a Trinity,DA
DO YOU SEE WHAT A WACHO YOU ARE BECOMING.
aND I have told you this B4 I called my dad sir for the first 24 or 35 years and my life and then I started calling him father,so thinking as you do he must not had been my father the first 24-25 years.
Jude if you would just stop trying to always be bashing God's Church and do a little praying and reading the bible as it said and not what you THINK it said you may be a better Christian


Dear Joe Gofish:

You are obviously only capable of believing the lies and rewritten history of the Roman Catholic Religion. I have given you true history. You can deny it if you so choose. But that doesn't make you right.

It is a fact that the anti-Christ Papal system did not start until the 3rd century A.D... If you disagree - cite some sources of reliable - Non Roman Catholic history that would indicate that your right.

[SpiritWoman]

Dear Spirit Woman:

Yes, I am a Christian and Jesus Christ is my personal Lord and Savior. I believe 100% of the Word of God - all 66 books.

Now will you answer? Are you a Christian? If you died today are you sure that you would be allowed to enter heaven? Why or why not? What would your answer be to Father God, if He says to you.. "why should I allow you to enter my heaven?

Hi Judeb3,

You can beleive 100% in all 66 books of the cannonized bible, like I said before, it doesn't make you anymore christian then I and it also makes what you state as fact about the RCC hypocrosy.

Also, your version of ascending to the Creator is much more like a fantasy that not you nor anyone else can accurately describe, as none of us, as yet experienced death and acceptence into the kingdom, so if your asking me if I beleive that the Creator is an old man with a grey beard sitting on some golden throne in the clouds as depicted in ancient paintings and illuminated into the psyche of mankind over the centuries, same way pagen images have I might also add, passing judgement with an evil eye, then no I don't beleive in your version of christianity.

Hell is not what Jesus taught, He taught forgiveness and everlasting life, equality, humbleness, the love of all creation. It is Humans if you read the bible who abscure his message with superstitions of the psyche and ego.

"For those who would here, let them here, the kingdom of G_D is within you".

Jesus never used the word Christian, this word evolved many years after his death to separate the beleivers of His message from the mass and was promoted by the first organized Church in Christ's name, the RCC.

hmmm....The kingdom of G_D is within you? Sounds like we are all Children of G_D, it is up to us to bridge the gap and find what has been with us all along and all we have to do is accept it and make it a reality today, the Kingdom of G_D. It's not on some far off cloud sitting before some unloving man who is determined to send us all to Fire and Brimstone for eternity because we did not impose His will and pass judgement on others or do what He said is law.

Peace
SW

[Jude3b]

Hi Judeb3,

You can beleive 100% in all 66 books of the cannonized bible, like I said before, it doesn't make you anymore christian then I and it also makes what you state as fact about the RCC hypocrosy.

Also, your version of ascending to the Creator is much more like a fantasy that not you nor anyone else can accurately describe, as none of us, as yet experienced death and acceptence into the kingdom, so if your asking me if I beleive that the Creator is an old man with a grey beard sitting on some golden throne in the clouds as depicted in ancient paintings and illuminated into the psyche of mankind over the centuries, same way pagen images have I might also add, passing judgement with an evil eye, then no I don't beleive in your version of christianity.

Hell is not what Jesus taught, He taught forgiveness and everlasting life, equality, humbleness, the love of all creation. It is Humans if you read the bible who abscure his message with superstitions of the psyche and ego.

"For those who would here, let them here, the kingdom of G_D is within you".

Jesus never used the word Christian, this word evolved many years after his death to separate the beleivers of His message from the mass and was promoted by the first organized Church in Christ's name, the RCC.

hmmm....The kingdom of G_D is within you? Sounds like we are all Children of G_D, it is up to us to bridge the gap and find what has been with us all along and all we have to do is accept it and make it a reality today, the Kingdom of G_D. It's not on some far off cloud sitting before some unloving man who is determined to send us all to Fire and Brimstone for eternity because we did not impose His will and pass judgement on others or do what He said is law.

Peace
SW


Dear SpirtWoman:

Just as I surmised. You are not a Christian and your not absolutely sure that God would allow you to enter heaven. That is the reason you refused so many times to answer such a simple question. A true Christian cannot wait to stand up for Jesus. Why? Because Jesus is standing up Big in His people. You cannot hold down the body of a true Christian!

KINGDOM OF GOD QUESTION, IS IT A BRIDGE WE MUST GAP OR WHAT EXACTLY IS IT?????

I do absolutely believe the verse of scripture that tells us that the "kingdom of God is within you." Meaning that the Christian believers ON Christ have the kingdom of God in charge of their life. God is on the throne of the true Christian's life and the Christian submits to their Lord and Savior and loves Him with all their heart.

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36).

Yet, it is possible to understand what the Kingdom of God is - by studying the Scriptures!

So what is it? IS IT A BRIDGE WE MUST GAP, AS YOU INDICATE?

First- It is a doctrine.

"Go thou and preach the kingdom of God" (Luke 9:60).

"The kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it" (Luke 16:16).

Second- It is an experience.

"But SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and his righteousness" (Matt. 6:33).

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU" (Luke 17:20,21).

Third- Christians are in the kingdom of God already and the kingdom of God is in them already:

In the very first century A.D., John testified that he was "in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ" (Rev. 1:9).

Paul instructed the Colossians to give thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, AND HATH TRANSLATED US INTO THE KINGDOM OF HIS DEAR SON" (Col. 1:12, 13).

What an awesome thing to be in Kingdom of God and have the kingdom of God within us!!! "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost" (Rom. 14:17) Praise God, I want to shout!

Jesus says, "My kingdom is not of this world." It is not "here" or "there," it is not a "BRIDGE WE MUST GAP" - for it is not localized in any particular geographical locality, BUT IS SPIRITUAL in its nature and "WITHIN YOU," THAT IS, IF YOU HAVE EARNESTLY SOUGHT IT ACORDING TO CHRIST'S COMMAND AND "pressed into it." (see again Luke 16:16).

I hope you will reconsider. Please Read the Word of God again. Believe the truth, believe fully ON Christ and trust Him and Him alone. Let Him save you and set you free from religious ideas and doctrines of men and you can be assured like all true Christians that..."I'm on the way to heaven!" AMEN.

[Joe Gofish]

Dear Joe Gofish:

Just curious, what Roman Catholic book or article are you quoting this from? And why are you quoting it? What is your point?

Jude I'm not like you ,Thank God. I went to Catholic schools, You went to Catholic school to be a wit and only got i/2 way turn.So you may be only a 1/2 ???
You will find people like this Jude always keep trying to "disprove" something abou the Catholic Church. IT's as if he can't be happy by him self but must feel better by saying something "isn't true" about the church. It's like he is not secure enough in his own faith that he to keep reassuring him self that WE are wrong. But the Church just goes on as it has for the past 2000 years. The word "Pope" is simply a title including the aspect of "father." (Another verse that Jude has taking out of Context) The fact that the word was not used until later centuries in no way proves there were not popes prior to that time. We have had 265 pope in succession begining with Peter as historical records show. One of the Pope's main title is "Chief Shepherd of the Church," which is what Jesus told Peter to be and do: "Feed my Lambs, feed my sheep." JUDE will not accept this but he can't because he must keep proving we are wrong and he is right.

"Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the
Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached
by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers On this was the Church founded;
and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian."
St. Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 359 A.D..

[Jude3b]

Jude I'm not like you ,Thank God. I went to Catholic schools, You went to Catholic school to be a wit and only got i/2 way turn.So you may be only a 1/2 ???
You will find people like this Jude always keep trying to "disprove" something abou the Catholic Church. IT's as if he can't be happy by him self but must feel better by saying something "isn't true" about the church. It's like he is not secure enough in his own faith that he to keep reassuring him self that WE are wrong. But the Church just goes on as it has for the past 2000 years. The word "Pope" is simply a title including the aspect of "father." (Another verse that Jude has taking out of Context) The fact that the word was not used until later centuries in no way proves there were not popes prior to that time. We have had 265 pope in succession begining with Peter as historical records show. One of the Pope's main title is "Chief Shepherd of the Church," which is what Jesus told Peter to be and do: "Feed my Lambs, feed my sheep." JUDE will not accept this but he can't because he must keep proving we are wrong and he is right.

"Let us note that the very tradition, teaching, and faith of the
Catholic Church from the beginning, which the Lord gave, was preached
by the Apostles, and was preserved by the Fathers On this was the Church founded;
and if anyone departs from this, he neither is nor any longer ought to be called a Christian."
St. Athanasius, Letter to Serapion of Thmuis, 359 A.D..


Chill out Joe Gofish:

Don't get your panties in an uproar. Just thought you might want to cite your sources on that one particular post that was obviously from something you were reading and not an original thought of your own. I Wouldn't want to see you in trouble for Plagiarism.... especailly since your posts are always so inspiring.

[SpiritWoman]

Dear SpirtWoman:

Just as I surmised. You are not a Christian and your not absolutely sure that God would allow you to enter heaven. That is the reason you refused so many times to answer such a simple question. A true Christian cannot wait to stand up for Jesus. Why? Because Jesus is standing up Big in His people. You cannot hold down the body of a true Christian!

KINGDOM OF GOD QUESTION, IS IT A BRIDGE WE MUST GAP OR WHAT EXACTLY IS IT?????

I do absolutely believe the verse of scripture that tells us that the "kingdom of God is within you." Meaning that the Christian believers ON Christ have the kingdom of God in charge of their life. God is on the throne of the true Christian's life and the Christian submits to their Lord and Savior and loves Him with all their heart.

Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world" (John 18:36).

Yet, it is possible to understand what the Kingdom of God is - by studying the Scriptures!

So what is it? IS IT A BRIDGE WE MUST GAP, AS YOU INDICATE?

First- It is a doctrine.

"Go thou and preach the kingdom of God" (Luke 9:60).

"The kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it" (Luke 16:16).

Second- It is an experience.

"But SEEK YE FIRST THE KINGDOM OF GOD, and his righteousness" (Matt. 6:33).

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU" (Luke 17:20,21).

Third- Christians are in the kingdom of God already and the kingdom of God is in them already:

In the very first century A.D., John testified that he was "in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ" (Rev. 1:9).

Paul instructed the Colossians to give thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, AND HATH TRANSLATED US INTO THE KINGDOM OF HIS DEAR SON" (Col. 1:12, 13).

What an awesome thing to be in Kingdom of God and have the kingdom of God within us!!! "For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Ghost" (Rom. 14:17) Praise God, I want to shout!

Jesus says, "My kingdom is not of this world." It is not "here" or "there," it is not a "BRIDGE WE MUST GAP" - for it is not localized in any particular geographical locality, BUT IS SPIRITUAL in its nature and "WITHIN YOU," THAT IS, IF YOU HAVE EARNESTLY SOUGHT IT ACORDING TO CHRIST'S COMMAND AND "pressed into it." (see again Luke 16:16).

I hope you will reconsider. Please Read the Word of God again. Believe the truth, believe fully ON Christ and trust Him and Him alone. Let Him save you and set you free from religious ideas and doctrines of men and you can be assured like all true Christians that..."I'm on the way to heaven!" AMEN.

Well Judeb3,

You did exactly what I expected. You denied my love of Jesus.
And you denied my Christianity as only your status as a whole human would know the truth and can pass judgement on others while denying the facts of history.

Release judgement for it is not for us to judge. It is covetous and of the seven cardinal sins.

There in lies my disappointment in you.

You forget "Judge not, lest ye be Judged".

You still insist in the Word of the RCC cannon do you, well I'm sorry for that, but I refuse to judge you as I can only be judged/loved by the Creator. Here in lies my faith. As it should also for you.

Jesus never built a church, he was a redeemer, a teacher, a Jew, a Carpenter, the Messiah of the Jewish faith, a Rabi. He came to spread the message of truth to the Jewish people and anyone else who would listen. Or maybe it was made out to be for anyone at the convenience of the founders of christian faith.

The kingdom of G_D resided in him as it resides in us. He helplessly expressed this throughout his life, only to be rejeced by his own tribe and persecuted by all but his true followers.

How many were true? Let's see, only three were brave enough and so remorsed of his torture to show up for his death. Mary, his mother, Mary of Magdelene, and John, whom scholars now know was Lazarus.

It is point in fact that the writers of the gospels were none of the original apostles, but mere followers of the apostelic message, so where does this lead us today as christians? Oral tradition is tricky, just ask any tribal elders who practice it. Even the written tradition has it's deviations by who translates or edits the original document. Thus we as self proclaimed christians sew discourse, not harmony, so Jesus message is lost to chaos in the world around us.

So, in my studies I've found one message of Jesus to be loud and clear and this I will follow with my whole heart. The Kingdom of G_D is within you as written in all text down through history as a quote from Jesus. And the only quote I'm inclined to believe. No religious creed can overcome this declaration.

Is he my savior? Yes, he taught me to think for myself and seek him within, to break the veil that hides the truths and divides his children.

To love Jesus for his sacrefice to humanity to follow his sermon, For we are all his children as we all have the kingdom within us and after death the kingdom will return to it's source.

It's up to us to serve his message, proclaim It's rich enheritance as he did when he was a human, in love, honor, generosity and humility and most of all bravery. The more who find the kingdom, the stronger and more beautiful it will be.

But I will not detract from historical fact that leads all into the wilderness. I start with acceptenced truth, and winde my way through the wilderness to see within I AM.

Peace
SW

[Jude3b]

Well Judeb3,

You did exactly what I expected. You denied my love of Jesus.
And you denied my Christianity as only your status as a whole human would know the truth and can pass judgement on others while denying the facts of history.

Release judgement for it is not for us to judge. It is covetous and of the seven cardinal sins.

There in lies my disappointment in you.

You forget "Judge not, lest ye be Judged".

You still insist in the Word of the RCC cannon do you, well I'm sorry for that, but I refuse to judge you as I can only be judged/loved by the Creator. Here in lies my faith. As it should also for you.

Jesus never built a church, he was a redeemer, a teacher, a Jew, a Carpenter, the Messiah of the Jewish faith, a Rabi. He came to spread the message of truth to the Jewish people and anyone else who would listen. Or maybe it was made out to be for anyone at the convenience of the founders of christian faith.

The kingdom of G_D resided in him as it resides in us. He helplessly expressed this throughout his life, only to be rejeced by his own tribe and persecuted by all but his true followers.

How many were true? Let's see, only three were brave enough and so remorsed of his torture to show up for his death. Mary, his mother, Mary of Magdelene, and John, whom scholars now know was Lazarus.

It is point in fact that the writers of the gospels were none of the original apostles, but mere followers of the apostelic message, so where does this lead us today as christians? Oral tradition is tricky, just ask any tribal elders who practice it. Even the written tradition has it's deviations by who translates or edits the original document. Thus we as self proclaimed christians sew discourse, not harmony, so Jesus message is lost to chaos in the world around us.

So, in my studies I've found one message of Jesus to be loud and clear and this I will follow with my whole heart. The Kingdom of G_D is within you as written in all text down through history as a quote from Jesus. And the only quote I'm inclined to believe. No religious creed can overcome this declaration.

Is he my savior? Yes, he taught me to think for myself and seek him within, to break the veil that hides the truths and divides his children.

To love Jesus for his sacrefice to humanity to follow his sermon, For we are all his children as we all have the kingdom within us and after death the kingdom will return to it's source.

It's up to us to serve his message, proclaim It's rich enheritance as he did when he was a human, in love, honor, generosity and humility and most of all bravery. The more who find the kingdom, the stronger and more beautiful it will be.

But I will not detract from historical fact that leads all into the wilderness. I start with acceptenced truth, and winde my way through the wilderness to see within I AM.

Peace
SW



Dear SpiritWoman:

Who are you???? What are you??? And what tribe (or planet) are you from?

Who is your Jesus???? He's not that guy who mowed my lawn the other day is he?

You say that your Jesus did not come to build a church. Of course you offered no Biblical support... well maybe thats because there is none.

The Jesus of Christianity came to do exactly that.... to build HIS church. It was His plan from the beginning. Have you ever read the Holy Bible?

"...I will BUILD MY CHURCH...." (Jesus speaking in Matthew 16:18).



The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John are called by the names of the men who wrote them.

Matthew Levi - wrote the Gospel of Matthew. He was a "publican" (tax collector) until Jesus called him to follow Him.

John Mark - wrote the Gospel of Mark. He once fled from a mission with Paul. But after Barnabas took him in, he became very useful. See Acts 13:1-13; 15:36-39; 2 Timothy 4:11.

Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke and Acts of the Apostles. He was Paul's "beloved physician" who followed him on many missionary journeys. He carefully researched Jesus' life, interviewing Mary, Elizabeth and many others. (see Colossians 4:14)

John, "the beloved apostle" wrote the Gospel of John, 1, 2, & 3 John and the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Better read your Bible - all 66 books of it, again Spirit Woman, you'll find the truth there and nothing but the truth. Amen.

[Joe Gofish]

Dear SpiritWoman:

Who are you???? What are you??? And what tribe (or planet) are you from?

Who is your Jesus???? He's not that guy who mowed my lawn the other day is he?

You say that your Jesus did not come to build a church. Of course you offered no Biblical support... well maybe thats because there is none.

The Jesus of Christianity came to do exactly that.... to build HIS church. It was His plan from the beginning. Have you ever read the Holy Bible?

"...I will BUILD MY CHURCH...." (Jesus speaking in Matthew 16:18).



The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke & John are called by the names of the men who wrote them.

Matthew Levi - wrote the Gospel of Matthew. He was a "publican" (tax collector) until Jesus called him to follow Him.

John Mark - wrote the Gospel of Mark. He once fled from a mission with Paul. But after Barnabas took him in, he became very useful. See Acts 13:1-13; 15:36-39; 2 Timothy 4:11.

Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke and Acts of the Apostles. He was Paul's "beloved physician" who followed him on many missionary journeys. He carefully researched Jesus' life, interviewing Mary, Elizabeth and many others. (see Colossians 4:14)

John, "the beloved apostle" wrote the Gospel of John, 1, 2, & 3 John and the Revelation of Jesus Christ.

Better read your Bible - all 66 books of it, again Spirit Woman, you'll find the truth there and nothing but the truth. Amen.

" Who are you???? What are you??? And what tribe (or planet) are you from?" hERE ARE THE WORDS OF cHRIASTIAN I don;t think so,its more like the words of a Bigot,Jeus come to start a Teaching Church not a writting church,Fisrt He had a teaching Church and then We got the bible,THE VERY FIRT CHURCH WAS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THEN THE LUTHERN,WE DID HAVE ONE IN THE MIDDLE IN ABOUT 1054 AND THEN WE GOT ONE CALLED NON-DENOMINATIONAL IN THE 90'S TO ADD TO THE OTHER 26,000,The word CHURCH is one (Jude has a hard time with BOOK one and BOOKS more then one,and if looks like he has a hard time with Church one and churches more then one

Writing to Jude would be the equivalent of trying to teach a pig to sing. The action is not advised. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

This is not to say that annoying the pig, I mean Jude, might not have its pleasures.

[Joe Gofish]

Has it really come to this, Joe?

You're responding to your own posts now?

PLEASE forgive me I made a error,I must be the first here to do that.,Tahnk you for your help.

[Joe Gofish]

Roman Catholicism was formed in the 4th century A.D. Peter was not a Pope at all. The first pope was Siricius. He was the first one to use the term "POPE."

While it can be said that the visible church of God had become so apostate that Roman Catholicism was started about 270 A.D., it actually was not until 384 A.D. when Siricius (384-399) became the first Roman Bishop to call himself "Pontifex Maximus" and a new term, "POPE" (papa). Satan was a busy fellow. He could not kill the church of God off by persecution, so he joined the visible religious church.

Now pagan Rome became the so-called "holy" city. The pope had the religious powers of Caesar and claimed to rule the "church."

In reality the true church of God, the body of Christ fled into the wilderness. They knew that Rome was the "whore of Babylon" and they could see the handiwork of the devil in creating the anti-christ Papacy.

MORE OF JUDE LIES : Often people argue that there is no historical precedent for the primacy of Peter and the papacy. Here are some short quotes showing what the early Christians believed about the papacy.


Clement of Alexandria

"[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the pre-eminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? `Behold, we have left all and have followed you'" [Matt. 19:27; Mark 10:28] (Who Is the Rich Man That is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).


Tertullian

"For though you think that heaven is still shut up, remember that the Lord left the keys of it to Peter here, and through him to the Church, which keys everyone will carry with him if he has been questioned and made a confession [of faith]" (Antidote Against the Scorpion 10 [A.D. 211]).


Tertullian

"[T]he Lord said to Peter, 'On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven' [Matt. 16:18-19] . . . Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed" (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).


Cyprian of Carthage

"The Lord says to Peter: 'I say to you,' he says, 'that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church' . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).


Ephraim the Syrian

"[Jesus said:] Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on Earth a Church for me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows; you are the chief of my disciples. Through you I will give drink to all peoples. Yours is that life-giving sweetness which I dispense. I have chosen you to be, as it were, the first-born in my institution so that, as the heir, you may be executor of my treasures. I have given you the keys of my kingdom. Behold, I have given you authority over all my treasures" (Homilies 4:1 [A.D. 351]).

[Jude3b]

MORE OF JUDE LIES : Often people argue that there is no historical precedent for the primacy of Peter and the papacy. Here are some short quotes showing what the early Christians believed about the papacy.


Clement of Alexandria

"[T]he blessed Peter, the chosen, the pre-eminent, the first among the disciples, for whom alone with himself the Savior paid the tribute [Matt. 17:27], quickly grasped and understood their meaning. And what does he say? `Behold, we have left all and have followed you'" [Matt. 19:27; Mark 10:28] (Who Is the Rich Man That is Saved? 21:3-5 [A.D. 200]).


Tertullian

"For though you think that heaven is still shut up, remember that the Lord left the keys of it to Peter here, and through him to the Church, which keys everyone will carry with him if he has been questioned and made a confession [of faith]" (Antidote Against the Scorpion 10 [A.D. 211]).


Tertullian

"[T]he Lord said to Peter, 'On this rock I will build my Church, I have given you the keys of the kingdom of heaven [and] whatever you shall have bound or loosed on earth will be bound or loosed in heaven' [Matt. 16:18-19] . . . Upon you, he says, I will build my Church; and I will give to you the keys, not to the Church; and whatever you shall have bound or you shall have loosed, not what they shall have bound or they shall have loosed" (Modesty 21:9-10 [A.D. 220]).


Cyprian of Carthage

"The Lord says to Peter: 'I say to you,' he says, 'that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church' . . . On him [Peter] he builds the Church, and to him he gives the command to feed the sheep [John 21:17], and although he assigns a like power to all the apostles, yet he founded a single chair [cathedra], and he established by his own authority a source and an intrinsic reason for that unity. Indeed, the others were that also which Peter was [i.e., apostles], but a primacy is given to Peter, whereby it is made clear that there is but one Church and one chair. So too, all [the apostles] are shepherds, and the flock is shown to be one, fed by all the apostles in single-minded accord. If someone does not hold fast to this unity of Peter, can he imagine that he still holds the faith? If he [should] desert the chair of Peter upon whom the Church was built, can he still be confident that he is in the Church?" (The Unity of the Catholic Church 4; 1st edition [A.D. 251]).


Ephraim the Syrian

"[Jesus said:] Simon, my follower, I have made you the foundation of the holy Church. I betimes called you Peter, because you will support all its buildings. You are the inspector of those who will build on Earth a Church for me. If they should wish to build what is false, you, the foundation, will condemn them. You are the head of the fountain from which my teaching flows; you are the chief of my disciples. Through you I will give drink to all peoples. Yours is that life-giving sweetness which I dispense. I have chosen you to be, as it were, the first-born in my institution so that, as the heir, you may be executor of my treasures. I have given you the keys of my kingdom. Behold, I have given you authority over all my treasures" (Homilies 4:1 [A.D. 351]).


Dear Joe Gofish:

Provide even one quote in the entire Bible that shows that Peter is a pope. You won't find it.

Provide even one verse in the entire Bible that shows that the church that Jesus said was His... "...I will build MY church...." is the Roman Catholic religion instead of the church of God - the body of Christ (Acts 20:28). You won't find it.

So what possible weight can the statements of those in the 3rd and 4th century A.D., who were already apostate matter. The New Testament told us about the "falling away" that would take place. Don't you believe what the New Testament says?

[SpiritWoman]

" Who are you???? What are you??? And what tribe (or planet) are you from?" hERE ARE THE WORDS OF cHRIASTIAN I don;t think so,its more like the words of a Bigot,Jeus come to start a Teaching Church not a writting church,Fisrt He had a teaching Church and then We got the bible,THE VERY FIRT CHURCH WAS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND THEN THE LUTHERN,WE DID HAVE ONE IN THE MIDDLE IN ABOUT 1054 AND THEN WE GOT ONE CALLED NON-DENOMINATIONAL IN THE 90'S TO ADD TO THE OTHER 26,000,The word CHURCH is one (Jude has a hard time with BOOK one and BOOKS more then one,and if looks like he has a hard time with Church one and churches more then one

Writing to Jude would be the equivalent of trying to teach a pig to sing. The action is not advised. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.

This is not to say that annoying the pig, I mean Jude, might not have its pleasures.

You are exactly correct and I'm backing off now.

Judeb3 reminds of a Divider not a Uniter. And when I think of the sacrefice that Jesus made for us all, and how some use his name to abuse and divide I cry even more in my heart as I know He must be doing as well.

I never said Judeb3's religion was wrong, just his history.

He retaliates by attacking my faith in Jesus.

His anger is revealed. Hopefully he can be cleansed of this someday and move on to a better place.

I'm not crushed by his rejection, he is not Jesus.

Peace.
SW

[Rupert Pupkin]

Mistaken post, sorry! Please ignore.

[Jude3b]

You are exactly correct and I'm backing off now.

Judeb3 reminds of a Divider not a Uniter. And when I think of the sacrefice that Jesus made for us all, and how some use his name to abuse and divide I cry even more in my heart as I know He must be doing as well.

I never said Judeb3's religion was wrong, just his history.

He retaliates by attacking my faith in Jesus.

His anger is revealed. Hopefully he can be cleansed of this someday and move on to a better place.

I'm not crushed by his rejection, he is not Jesus.

Peace.
SW



Dear Spirit Woman:

You sure have got a lot of gaul!

You make a statement that "Jesus never came to build a church." Which is absolute blasphemy and than you act like your feelings are hurt because I challenge you on it. Hey, get out of the kitchen if the heat is to hot for you.

This thread is about the "beginning of the Roman Catholic Church" and even that false religion will tell you that "Jesus came to build a church." They are confused what the "church" is - but at least they know that God came to build one. But you! You make false anti-Biblical statements and expect that they will not be challenged. Get real!

[Joe Gofish]

Dear Spirit Woman:

You sure have got a lot of gaul!

You make a statement that "Jesus never came to build a church." Which is absolute blasphemy and than you act like your feelings are hurt because I challenge you on it. Hey, get out of the kitchen if the heat is to hot for you.

This thread is about the "beginning of the Roman Catholic Church" and even that false religion will tell you that "Jesus came to build a church." They are confused what the "church" is - but at least they know that God came to build one. But you! You make false anti-Biblical statements and expect that they will not be challenged. Get real!
This moron said you have a lot of gaul,who is calling the kettle black He has more guts the a government mule.
Ray Charles can see better then this lunatic

[SpiritWoman]

This moron said you have a lot of gaul,who is calling the kettle black He has more guts the a government mule.
Ray Charles can see better then this lunatic

Well, it appears that my attempts of removing his blinders failed.

In the meantime, my apprehension in beleiving any church accurately represents Jesus message stays with me.

At least the RCC's that I know don't condemn other people's religion and interpretations thereof. Maybe some RCC's do, but the ones I know don't.

It is people like Judeb3 who cause this devision in the very body of the church they proclaim is built by the Savoir.

If we as the body of the christian faith (His church) can not get along and discuss our differences of opinion in the study of scripture with out name calling and accusation and denial of historical fact, why would Jesus want us spreading his message.

Peace.
SW

[Jude3b]

Well, it appears that my attempts of removing his blinders failed.

In the meantime, my apprehension in beleiving any church accurately represents Jesus message stays with me.

At least the RCC's that I know don't condemn other people's religion and interpretations thereof. Maybe some RCC's do, but the ones I know don't.

It is people like Judeb3 who cause this devision in the very body of the church they proclaim is built by the Savoir.

If we as the body of the christian faith (His church) can not get along and discuss our differences of opinion in the study of scripture with out name calling and accusation and denial of historical fact, why would Jesus want us spreading his message.

Peace.
SW



Dear Spirit Woman:

Fairly Hypocritical of you to accuse me of causing division. I am not the one who espoused anti-Scriptural statements and than got my feelings hurt because you were challenged. Hey girl, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

Sectarianism is the cause of division. Not speaking forth the truth of the Word of God!

The idea of division among Christians was foreign to the pure apostolic church of God - the body of Christ. Paul says to the Roman brethren, "Mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them" (Romans 16:17).

Would we have disunion and disharmony among the members of the body of Christ - if it were in its normal state? No, it would be impossible! What causes disunion and division? It is sectarianism - denominationalism and sinful men and women hanging on to their petty and often false doctrines of men!

If you are really in favor of unity Spirit Woman - you will only get it if you obey God and follow His Word! Here is the formula:

First: We must be "IN CHRIST." That means we are saved and "not of the world."

Second: We must be kept in His name, which mean to reject all other denominational names. God tells us the name of His church... the church of God..(see Acts 20:28 for example).

Third: We must recieve the Word of God and keep it, which means to reject all doctrines and commandments of men. God said it! That settles it!

Fourth: We all must be sanctified wholly, which removes from the heart the cause of carnal divisions and the desire to be sectarian.

I'm not making any of this up... it is all spelled out very clearly in John chapter 17. Read it and you'll see.

Jesus wants His people unified and not divided in false religious denominations or "your religion" as you call it. Christianity is not a religion - it is a relationship with the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

[Joe Gofish]

Dear Spirit Woman:

Fairly Hypocritical of you to accuse me of causing division. I am not the one who espoused anti-Scriptural statements and than got my feelings hurt because you were challenged. Hey girl, if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen!

Sectarianism is the cause of division. Not speaking forth the truth of the Word of God!

The idea of division among Christians was foreign to the pure apostolic church of God - the body of Christ. Paul says to the Roman brethren, "Mark them which cause divisions and offenses contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned, and avoid them" (Romans 16:17).

Would we have disunion and disharmony among the members of the body of Christ - if it were in its normal state? No, it would be impossible! What causes disunion and division? It is sectarianism - denominationalism and sinful men and women hanging on to their petty and often false doctrines of men!

If you are really in favor of unity Spirit Woman - you will only get it if you obey God and follow His Word! Here is the formula:

First: We must be "IN CHRIST." That means we are saved and "not of the world."

Second: We must be kept in His name, which mean to reject all other denominational names. God tells us the name of His church... the church of God..(see Acts 20:28 for example).

Third: We must recieve the Word of God and keep it, which means to reject all doctrines and commandments of men. God said it! That settles it!

Fourth: We all must be sanctified wholly, which removes from the heart the cause of carnal divisions and the desire to be sectarian.

I'm not making any of this up... it is all spelled out very clearly in John chapter 17. Read it and you'll see.

Jesus wants His people unified and not divided in false religious denominations or "your religion" as you call it. Christianity is not a religion - it is a relationship with the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

Dear Spirit Woman,You cannot win with Jude first because he is ignorant of history and because he has his own interpretations of the bible and is all ways telling you ,what HE THINKS the bible is saying.
He is a liar and he is NOT a Christians,I have ask him time after time to prove his claim that Catholics worship Mary and he cannot do it and he knows it is just another of his lies.Rev 22:18-19 is talking about the book John had just finished writting and not the other books of the bible,Catholics and protestant both will tell you this,all his garbage he gets is from Dave Hunt,Jack Chick or Loraine Boettner.
Jude is nothing like a Christian,a true Christian does NOT keep bashing another person faith 2 John 9=11
Thank you and do not waste your time on Jude

[SpiritWoman]

Dear Spirit Woman,You cannot win with Jude first because he is ignorant of history and because he has his own interpretations of the bible and is all ways telling you ,what HE THINKS the bible is saying.
He is a liar and he is NOT a Christians,I have ask him time after time to prove his claim that Catholics worship Mary and he cannot do it and he knows it is just another of his lies.Rev 22:18-19 is talking about the book John had just finished writting and not the other books of the bible,Catholics and protestant both will tell you this,all his garbage he gets is from Dave Hunt,Jack Chick or Loraine Boettner.
Jude is nothing like a Christian,a true Christian does NOT keep bashing another person faith 2 John 9=11
Thank you and do not waste your time on Jude

Hi Joe,

I had a revelation on this. A long time ago. I'm still struggling in acceptance, but what you say is true.

Hypocrisy runs rampant through the earthly world and is evil when used to define christianity or her churches and ultimately G-d's judgement of others people's faith, then say it is righteous in his eyes.

I humble myself, and ask His forgiveness over the past few days, for wasting my time on people He has warned me against. To trust Him alone.

In all of history of the christian faith, I hate to say that the tool that is used most to divide the church of Jesus Christ the Lord, has been the interpretation of the bible by man. The hand of man is all over the Word.

What an ultimate shame and dishonor to the very church we earthly dwellers can only "dedicate" to our Messiah.

Blessings.
SW

[Zguy28]

I have ask him time after time to prove his claim that Catholics worship Mary and he cannot do it and he knows it is just another of his lies.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/2d26a7e2-dad6-4b87-b89a-4d2d0a9a6ef9.standard.jpg
Cruz Jacinto, an employee at Bodega Chocolates, holds a piece of chocolate believed to bear the likeness of the Virgin Mary and the prayer card she carries with a portrait of the Virgin Mary in Fountain Valley on Thursday.


Does this apply?

[SpiritWoman]

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/ap/2d26a7e2-dad6-4b87-b89a-4d2d0a9a6ef9.standard.jpg
Cruz Jacinto, an employee at Bodega Chocolates, holds a piece of chocolate believed to bear the likeness of the Virgin Mary and the prayer card she carries with a portrait of the Virgin Mary in Fountain Valley on Thursday.


Does this apply?

No more than Judeb3's defunct interpretation of the RCC belief.

To an RCC this may be interpreted as a persons extravagant imagination, much like Judeb3's.

To other RCC's that would respect another's intepretation it would be a miracle and a sign of the presence of G_D in our life's today.

And if I may, add to this miracle if in fact it is as I would not interpret as one of a sign to be shared, but personal, the lack in a person's awareness that needs to be worked on in physical signs, as is in what is being the message of the sign.

I prayed for a sign once, I felt the spirit of truth inside of me, but did not know which way it led because it is everywhere when you open your eyes and see it clearly. I have studied many forms of spirituality over the years and still felt my spirit lacking movement beyond the physical world.

Being raised as a christian, I felt very uncomfortable asking for a sign. I felt it would be tempting the Creator to show , but my heart yearned for a path to the right way.

Well, the sign came, in the clouds above my head on a beautiful summer day in the midst of the blue sky in the middle of my daily commute. Did I take a picture and share it? No, it is where it belongs, in my heart, with my spirit, and I will follow, for it was the Cross, the Glory of His Word and actions that reside in us all.

I only share this because there is a need to clarify what shakes and moves the spirit. Please don't degrade one my many personal and most sacred of experiences.

Does this make me a worshipper of idolatry?

SW

[Joe Gofish]

No more than Judeb3's defunct interpretation of the RCC belief.

To an RCC this may be interpreted as a persons extravagant imagination, much like Judeb3's.

To other RCC's that would respect another's intepretation it would be a miracle and a sign of the presence of G_D in our life's today.

And if I may, add to this miracle if in fact it is as I would not interpret as one of a sign to be shared, but personal, the lack in a person's awareness that needs to be worked on in physical signs, as is in what is being the message of the sign.

I prayed for a sign once, I felt the spirit of truth inside of me, but did not know which way it led because it is everywhere when you open your eyes and see it clearly. I have studied many forms of spirituality over the years and still felt my spirit lacking movement beyond the physical world.

Being raised as a christian, I felt very uncomfortable asking for a sign. I felt it would be tempting the Creator to show , but my heart yearned for a path to the right way.

Well, the sign came, in the clouds above my head on a beautiful summer day in the midst of the blue sky in the middle of my daily commute. Did I take a picture and share it? No, it is where it belongs, in my heart, with my spirit, and I will follow, for it was the Cross, the Glory of His Word and actions that reside in us all.

I only share this because there is a need to clarify what shakes and moves the spirit. Please don't degrade one my many personal and most sacred of experiences.

Does this make me a worshipper of idolatry?

SW

You must be very carefell with what Jude has to say he will never give the verse B4 or after the verse he is talking about like if you read his last post this is what he said "UNTO THE CHURCH OF GOD"
bUT WHAT DOES ALL THE VERSE HAVE TO SAY, " unto the church of God which is at Corinth,The Church at Corinth was called the Universal Church and later called the CC.THis will help us to understand , Apollos (Acts 18) - After Priscilla and Aquila had taught him more about Christ's Gospel, Apollos moved from Ephesus to Corinth (Acts 19:1). As an eloquent and persuasive preacher, he obviously made such an impact on the Corinthian Christians, they split into factions - some for Paul, others for Apollos or Cephas (the apostle Peter). Some even for Christ! Later in Paul's Third Journey, c AD56/57, Apollos was back in Ephesus working with Paul, who dealt with these splits in his First Letter to the Corinthians (1:12; 3:4-6). At the end of the Letter (16:12), Paul tells them that Apollos will return to Corinth as soon as "God wills". According to tradition Apollos became the first bishop of Corinth. Ten years later in c AD66, Apollos is in Crete with Titus, and about to leave on another journey (Titus 3:13).
JUDE will not answer because he cannot.
We can see how Jude leave thing out of the Bible he did in to 1Cor!:1-2 and to 2Cor 1:1 WHY Jude do you keep being so difficult,and you are asking people to be like you ????? PLEASE

[SpiritWoman]

You must be very carefell with what Jude has to say he will never give the verse B4 or after the verse he is talking about like if you read his last post this is what he said "UNTO THE CHURCH OF GOD"
bUT WHAT DOES ALL THE VERSE HAVE TO SAY, " unto the church of God which is at Corinth,The Church at Corinth was called the Universal Church and later called the CC.THis will help us to understand , Apollos (Acts 18) - After Priscilla and Aquila had taught him more about Christ's Gospel, Apollos moved from Ephesus to Corinth (Acts 19:1). As an eloquent and persuasive preacher, he obviously made such an impact on the Corinthian Christians, they split into factions - some for Paul, others for Apollos or Cephas (the apostle Peter). Some even for Christ! Later in Paul's Third Journey, c AD56/57, Apollos was back in Ephesus working with Paul, who dealt with these splits in his First Letter to the Corinthians (1:12; 3:4-6). At the end of the Letter (16:12), Paul tells them that Apollos will return to Corinth as soon as "God wills". According to tradition Apollos became the first bishop of Corinth. Ten years later in c AD66, Apollos is in Crete with Titus, and about to leave on another journey (Titus 3:13).
JUDE will not answer because he cannot.
We can see how Jude leave thing out of the Bible he did in to 1Cor!:1-2 and to 2Cor 1:1 WHY Jude do you keep being so difficult,and you are asking people to be like you ????? PLEASE

You're Right!! Jude does do this. This is why he is always out of context.

Like I said, I was warned.

[Jude3b]

You must be very carefell with what Jude has to say he will never give the verse B4 or after the verse he is talking about like if you read his last post this is what he said "UNTO THE CHURCH OF GOD"
bUT WHAT DOES ALL THE VERSE HAVE TO SAY, " unto the church of God which is at Corinth,The Church at Corinth was called the Universal Church and later called the CC.THis will help us to understand , Apollos (Acts 18) - After Priscilla and Aquila had taught him more about Christ's Gospel, Apollos moved from Ephesus to Corinth (Acts 19:1). As an eloquent and persuasive preacher, he obviously made such an impact on the Corinthian Christians, they split into factions - some for Paul, others for Apollos or Cephas (the apostle Peter). Some even for Christ! Later in Paul's Third Journey, c AD56/57, Apollos was back in Ephesus working with Paul, who dealt with these splits in his First Letter to the Corinthians (1:12; 3:4-6). At the end of the Letter (16:12), Paul tells them that Apollos will return to Corinth as soon as "God wills". According to tradition Apollos became the first bishop of Corinth. Ten years later in c AD66, Apollos is in Crete with Titus, and about to leave on another journey (Titus 3:13).
JUDE will not answer because he cannot.
We can see how Jude leave thing out of the Bible he did in to 1Cor!:1-2 and to 2Cor 1:1 WHY Jude do you keep being so difficult,and you are asking people to be like you ????? PLEASE


Dear Joe Gofish: You are adding to the Word of God and trying to further deceive Spirit Woman. The verses in First Corinthians 1:2 and/or 2:1 addressed to "the church of God" say nothing whatsoever about being called the Universal Church or the Catholic Church. It never says that anywhere. If you are going to tell lies about me and the Word of God - list the actual verse you intimate that you say exists or else stop your lies, repent and apologize! I've met absolute Atheists who were far more honest and polite than you are.

[Joe Gofish]

Dear Joe Gofish: You are adding to the Word of God and trying to further deceive Spirit Woman. The verses in First Corinthians 1:2 and/or 2:1 addressed to "the church of God" say nothing whatsoever about being called the Universal Church or the Catholic Church. It never says that anywhere. If you are going to tell lies about me and the Word of God - list the actual verse you intimate that you say exists or else stop your lies, repent and apologize! I've met absolute Atheists who were far more honest and polite than you are.

THE BIBLE NEVER SAID NOTHING CAN BE ADD IN FACT IT WAS THE CC that add 27 books(MORE THEN ONE) to the Bible its now called the NT.
REV 22:18-19 is NOT TALKING about all the bible IT IS TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK THAT JOHN HAD JUST WRITTEN. The bible was not put together as a book until many years later and was not a canon until about 393, My god man do not show your ignorance on ever post .
Protestants and Catholic do not believe YOUR INTERPRETATION OF REV.22:18-19 so PLEASE get back on your meds.
I have posted this question about Rev 22:18-19 4 times and you still do not understand what it is saying,I'll post it one more time today

[Joe Gofish]

THE BIBLE NEVER SAID NOTHING CAN BE ADD IN FACT IT WAS THE CC that add 27 books(MORE THEN ONE) to the Bible its now called the NT.
REV 22:18-19 is NOT TALKING about all the bible IT IS TALKING ABOUT THE BOOK THAT JOHN HAD JUST WRITTEN. The bible was not put together as a book until many years later and was not a canon until about 393, My god man do not show your ignorance on ever post .
Protestants and Catholic do not believe YOUR INTERPRETATION OF REV.22:18-19 so PLEASE get back on your meds.
I have posted this question about Rev 22:18-19 4 times and you still do not understand what it is saying,I'll post it one more time today

what is a house OF GOD ??????? "Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood"— Acts 20:28





"Be without offence to the Jews, and to the Gentiles, and to the church of God"— 1 Cor.10: 32





"What, have you not houses to eat and to drink in ? Or despise ye the church of God; and put them to shame that have not ? What shall I say to you? Do I praise you? In this I praise you not."— 1 Cor.11: 22





"And he hath subjected all things under his feet, and hath made him head over all the church, Which is his body, and the fullness of him who is filled all in all."— Eph.1: 22,23





"But if I tarry long, that thou mayst know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living.
DO CHURCHS THAT CALL THEMSELF NON-DENOMINATIONAL HAVE BIHOPS ???????

[Jude3b]

what is a house OF GOD ??????? "Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood"— Acts 20:28





"Be without offence to the Jews, and to the Gentiles, and to the church of God"— 1 Cor.10: 32





"What, have you not houses to eat and to drink in ? Or despise ye the church of God; and put them to shame that have not ? What shall I say to you? Do I praise you? In this I praise you not."— 1 Cor.11: 22





"And he hath subjected all things under his feet, and hath made him head over all the church, Which is his body, and the fullness of him who is filled all in all."— Eph.1: 22,23





"But if I tarry long, that thou mayst know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living.
DO CHURCHS THAT CALL THEMSELF NON-DENOMINATIONAL HAVE BIHOPS ???????


Dear Joe Gofish: Every church of God congregation has a Bishop - the Lord Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of our faith. The congregations also have Elders and a Pastor or two. Pastor is the same word as Bishop in the original Greek.

[BibleMan]

Roman Catholicism was formed in the 4th century A.D. Peter was not a Pope at all. The first pope was Siricius. He was the first one to use the term "POPE."

While it can be said that the visible church of God had become so apostate that Roman Catholicism was started about 270 A.D., it actually was not until 384 A.D. when Siricius (384-399) became the first Roman Bishop to call himself "Pontifex Maximus" and a new term, "POPE" (papa). Satan was a busy fellow. He could not kill the church of God off by persecution, so he joined the visible religious church.

Now pagan Rome became the so-called "holy" city. The pope had the religious powers of Caesar and claimed to rule the "church."

In reality the true church of God, the body of Christ fled into the wilderness. They knew that Rome was the "whore of Babylon" and they could see the handiwork of the devil in creating the anti-christ Papacy.




Are you saying that Satan was able to trick or fool most of the church going Christians of that time?