Tobias

[furay]

Reading through the book of Tobias tonight it struck me just how much I love its story. It kind of reminds me of Ruth which is another of my favorite books.
So who else holds a particular affinity for the book of Tobias?

P.S.
I was going to put this thread in 'Biblical Languages', but then I reconsidered on the assumption that most people outside of Ecclesiology 201 haven't even read the book. :wink:

[George Blaisdell]

Reading through the book of Tobias tonight it struck me just how much I love its story. It kind of reminds me of Ruth which is another of my favorite books.
So who else holds a particular affinity for the book of Tobias?

P.S.
I was going to put this thread in 'Biblical Languages', but then I reconsidered on the assumption that most people outside of Ecclesiology 201 haven't even read the book. :wink:

I am so Old Testament poor that I am an embarassment to myself and others.

Thanks to Peter Papoutsis, I finally read Ruth, and when I got to the end, I just started crying... When I realized that by her life, and the love and the choices and decisions she made, that she was a part of the ancestry of our Lord...

So Tobias next, and then I can talk better...

Arsenios

[furay]

I am so Old Testament poor that I am an embarassment to myself and others.
You aren't the only one! My knowledge of the "deuterocanonicals" in particular is woefully lacking. :frown:

Thanks to Peter Papoutsis, I finally read Ruth, and when I got to the end, I just started crying... When I realized that by her life, and the love and the choices and decisions she made, that she was a part of the ancestry of our Lord...
It is a timeless and powerful story. Praise be to God!

So Tobias next, and then I can talk better...

Arsenios
Don't forget about this thread when you do end up reading it. I would greatly appreciate any thoughts you have on this wonderful book. Be well.

-Peter

[Amazing Rando]

Can you give us a quick synopsis of what happens in Tobias?

Isn't it called "Tobit" in RCC bibles?

[spiritmech]

17b
If I saw one of my people who had died and been thrown outside the walls of Nineveh, I would bury him.
18
I also buried anyone whom Sennacherib slew when he returned as a fugitive from Judea during the days of judgment decreed against him by the heavenly King because of the blasphemies he had uttered. In his rage he killed many Israelites, but I used to take their bodies by stealth and bury them; so when Sennacherib looked for them, he could not find them.

When I first read it this struck me. There are hints of the value of the body/resurrection even in the OT.
sm

[Amazing Rando]

When I first read it this struck me. There are hints of the value of the body/resurrection even in the OT.
sm

To that effect, don't forget Daniel 12 (which may or may not have been written in its final form around the same time as Tobit/Tobias was written):

1 "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of distress such as has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people—everyone whose name is found written in the book—will be delivered. 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 3 Those who are wise will shine like the brightness of the heavens, and those who lead many to righteousness, like the stars for ever and ever.

[spiritmech]

Well obviously the "canonical" books already mention resurrection. ;) :P
sm

[furay]

Can you give us a quick synopsis of what happens in Tobias?
Wikipedia sums it up better than I could:
The book tells the story of a righteous Jew of the Tribe of Naphtali named Tobit living in Nineveh after the deportation of the northern tribes of Israel to Assyria in 721 BC under Shalmaneser V. (The first two and a half chapters are written in the first person.) He was particularly noted for his diligence in attempting to provide proper burials for fallen Jews who had been slain by Sennacherib, for which the king seized all his property and exiled him. After Sennacherib's death, he was allowed to return to Nineveh, but again buried a dead man who had been murdered on the street. That night, he slept in the open and was blinded by bird droppings that fell in his eyes. This put a strain on his marriage, and ultimately, he prayed for death. Meanwhile, in faraway Media, a young woman named Sarah prays for death in despair, because she has lost seven husbands to the demon Ashmodai (Asmodeus) The Devil Asmodeus kills every man she marries on their wedding night, before the marriage can be consummated. God sends the angel Raphael, disguised as a human, to heal Tobit and to free Sarah from the demon.

The main narrative is dedicated to Tobit's son, Tobiah or Tobijah (Greek: Tobias), of the Tribe of Naphtali, who is sent by his blind father to collect a sum of money that the latter had deposited some time previously in the far off land of Media. Raphael represents himself as Tobit's kinsman Azariah, and offers to aid and protect Tobias on his journey. Under the guidance of Raphael, Tobias makes the journey to Media. Along the way, he is attacked by a giant fish, whose heart, liver and gall bladder are removed to make medicines.

Upon arriving in Media, Raphael tells Tobias of the beautiful Sarah, whom Tobias has the right to marry, because she is in his family. He instructs the young man to burn the fish's liver and heart to drive away the demon when he attacks on the wedding night. The two are married, and the fumes of the burning organs drive the demon away to Upper Egypt, while Raphael follows him and binds him. Meanwhile, Sarah's father has been digging a grave to secretly bury Tobias (whom he assumes will be dead). Surprised to find his son-in-law alive and well, he orders a double-length wedding feast (and has the grave secretly filled). Since he cannot leave because of the feast, Tobias sends Raphael to recover his father's money.

After the feast, Tobias and Sarah return to Nineveh. There, Raphael tells the youth to use the fish's gall to cure his father's blindness. Raphael then reveals his true identity and returns to heaven. Tobit sings a hymn of praise, and tells his son to leave Nineveh before God destroys it according to the prophecy of Nahum. After burying his father, Tobias returns to Media with his family, where he later learns that the destruction of Nineveh took place as his father predicted.

Isn't it called "Tobit" in RCC bibles?
Depends on the Bible. Most Bibles nowadays title it "Tobit"... I just like the sound of Tobias. :teeth:

When I first read it this struck me. There are hints of the value of the body/resurrection even in the OT.
That's what struck me too! Reminds me of how the early Christians would diligently gather up the bodies of the slain martyrs. Besides Daniel 12, which Amazing Rando has already mentioned, another beautiful OT reference to the Resurrection is chapter 37 of the Prophet Ezekiel.

[alam]

So who else holds a particular affinity for the book of Tobias?


I like the book of Tovia. It would still be a good topic for biblical languages, since it is one of the few books of the Deuterocanonicals whose original Hebrew/Aramaic has been recovered...albeit in fragments.

[Recognitiones]

So who else holds a particular affinity for the book of Tobias?
The Book of Tobit is Holy Scripture.

[Amazing Rando]

The Book of Tobit is Holy Scripture.

You mean Deuterocanonical Holy Scripture! :wink:

[furay]

The Book of Tobit is Holy Scripture.
Amen. :yes:

[Jawa Man]

I thought it was funny how Tobit became blind...

[sprky777]

Just read it this week. I hadn't even heard of it before then. It was interesting and I found nothing in it that contradicted other scripture. I wonder why it isn't considered part of the bible?

Considering the resurrection, Adam was created from the dust of the earth. I expect when we are risen, we will also be recreated from whatever dust is around. I don't think we will be needing our original decomposed dust. What of those that die or are buried at sea? What of those that lose a limb in life and die many decades later? Are they resurrected without that limb? No we are perfect. The substance of this vessel that is my earthly body is of no consequence. But for matters of cleanliness, dead bodies should be buried or processed quickly and hygiene must be maintained.

[furay]

I wonder why it isn't considered part of the bible?

But it is!

Anyways, glad you enjoyed it. :smile:

[sprky777]

It's not part of my King James bible. It's not part of the online bible 'biblegateway.com' although it does show up in a search it doesn't list the contents.
I found it on Catholic Apocrypha sites. So most Christians using their various renditions of the bible don't and won't see Tobit.

[PennyDreadful]

I remember having a discussion with you about how you dislike reading Brenton's Septuagint. Which translation of Tobit did you read?

[George Blaisdell]

It's not part of my King James bible. It's not part of the online bible 'biblegateway.com' although it does show up in a search it doesn't list the contents.
I found it on Catholic Apocrypha sites. So most Christians using their various renditions of the bible don't and won't see Tobit.

What a sad state of spiritual self-deprivation...

And I haven't read it either...

But I'm going to now!

Arsenios

[furay]

It's not part of my King James bible.
The King James Version, while a nice translation, is not the be all, end all of Bibles.

It's not part of the online bible 'biblegateway.com' although it does show up in a search it doesn't list the contents.
Biblegateway is run by Gospelcom.net, which is a Protestant site.

So most Christians using their various renditions of the bible don't and won't see Tobit.
Most Christians are not Protestants... unless you don't consider Orthodox and Catholics "Christians".

[PennyDreadful]

So you have a copy of Papoutsis' Septuagint? Is it complete? How is it better than Brenton's?

[Kenite]

[QUOTE]Most Christians are not ProtestantsMost Protestants are not Christians.

[furay]

I remember having a discussion with you about how you dislike reading Brenton's Septuagint. Which translation of Tobit did you read?
I don't dislike reading Brenton's per se, I've just heard that it isn't the most faithful translation of the LXX. But we don't have much choice in the matter right now, do we? Heh. I've read the KJV of Tobit (the deuterocanonicals used to be included in an appendix), the Douay-Rheims translation, and the New American Bible's.

So you have a copy of Papoutsis' Septuagint? Is it complete?
He's not done yet... check the thread in Bible Languages. :smile:

[George Blaisdell]

So you have a copy of Papoutsis' Septuagint?

How good to 'see' you here!

Yes, I do... It is wonderful!

Is it complete?

It's getting there...

How is it better than Brenton's?

Well, it's all English, and the translation reads easily and straightforewardly, and pretty much unambiguously. Included in it are alternate 'versions' taken from the service books of the Church, with some explanations of why they differ - Most of the differing has to do with their liturgical purpose vs the teaching text...

The typing is large enough to actually read...

And there is a flow to the OT narratives that is at once engaging and clear, that Peter sems to have a knack of bringing forth... He probably tells great bedtime stories to his kids too...

Arsenios

[furay]

Shush you.... no more posts until you finish reading Tobias!!! How long have I been waiting for your thoughts on this? Four months! Get to it! :whip:

[George Blaisdell]

Shush you.... no more posts until you finish reading Tobias!!! How long have I been waiting for your thoughts on this? Four months! Get to it! :whip:

I will, I will...

I promise, I promise...

Tomorrow, Tomorrow...

geo

[PennyDreadful]

Thankee! I was apparently rather confused. :huh:

When are you going to join the catechumenate?! =P

[Jawa Man]

I was cool and read the NRSV to find Tobit. Or Tobias. Whatever!

I especially thought it was funny how... er... Tobit became blind. That was really odd.

[furay]

Bump.

Still love this precious jewel of Sacred Scripture. Arsenios, did you ever get around to reading it? I certainly gave you enough time!!!

[semmie]

i never have. i want to.

[furay]

i never have. i want to.
Now is as good a time as any. :smile:

[semmie]

true enough.

i don't have a copy of it. :uhoh: (sorry...my bible is still just as protestant as i am)

can i find it online?

[furay]

true enough.

i don't have a copy of it. :uhoh: (sorry...my bible is still just as protestant as i am)

can i find it online?
Yup.

Not sure what translation you prefer:
NAB (http://www.nccbuscc.org/nab/bible/tobit/tobit1.htm)
DR (http://drbo.org/book/17.htm)
RSV (http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/r/rsv/rsv-idx?type=DIV1&byte=3785365)
CCB (http://www.bible.claret.org/bibles/ccb_english_ot/41-Tbtxt.doc) (text file)
KJV (http://www.ebible.org/bible/kjv/Tobit.htm)

I'm sure there are more online. But one of those should suffice. :smile:

[semmie]

most excellent!

thank you, furay!

[furay]

most excellent!

thank you, furay!
You are quite welcome.