If so, why are you an atheist?

[Matthew]

I appreciate TheologyWeb providing this place for us non-theists to discuss and debate among ourselves (I cannot imagine there being anything to argue with any fellow non-theists in here except, perhaps, politics). However, I wanted to ask my fellow naturalists in here: if you are an atheist, would you mind elaborating on why? I'll bite and start off with my own reasons.

First off, I consider myself intellectually an agnostic. I belief that the existence of supernatural entities to be unprovable and therefore a matter of inference. I happen to lack any rational basis or justification for inferring anything beyond or transcending our physical universe. My intellectual rejection of Christianity rests upon biblical errancy (contradictions, errors, and failed prophecies), a weakness of Christian arguments (for the resurrection) and plausible naturalistic explanations for the origins of the Christian faith.

However, my atheism is emotionally-based. I cannot believe that there exists out there a god of love. The years I labored under the conviction that I was seriously a born-again, Evangelical Christian, I struggled with singleness. Singleness, frankly, murdered my faith that any god of love out there existed. I recall suffering from a 5-6 year bout with deep clinical depression all because I was single.

I originally thought that my singleness was a punishment from Yahweh. I thought I had done some kind of horrible, disgusting, revolting sin against him and, therefore, being single was a punishment from him. I recall, as a Christian, praying my heart out for forgiveness. Although I had no clue what I had possibly done to deserve such a henious punishment, I was so utterly sorry that I did it and so I prayed to Yahweh, asking him for forgiveness just to cover my bases.

When I realized that my prayers were not being answered and I couldn't, frankly, figure out what I had done to so bitterly enrage Yahweh as to be cursed with such a horrible condition, I became convinced that I wasn't being punished but that Yahweh was doing it out of pure spite and malice. I recall sinking into further depression, I found it hard to pray to Yahweh, and I recall thinking that my singleness would probably be the death of my faith. Well, I became convinced that the Bible really was errant and there were no good grounds for believing the resurrection happened and so I deconverted and my depression lifted.

This is the chief reason why, today, I am an atheist. I don't believe that any god would've let me go through all that heartache and pain. I don't believe that any god would've done all that. Nowadays, I have trouble thinking respectfully of Christian girls. It seemed that no Christian girls ever really took romantic interest in me which I found offensive, hurtful, insulting, and quite devastating, especially in college.

I have never really forgiven Christian girls for not taking romantic interest in me all those years I was single and, furthermore, I have never really forgiven Yahweh for the feeling that he was romantically "starving" me. This is the chief reason why I am a non-theist today.

What about the rest of you?

Matthew

[Ryokan]

I am an agnostic because there is no way to verify or test the existence of a God or gods, and I have had no "religious" experiences to make me question my current epistemic system.
Matthew, I gotta ask though, aren't you being unfair to Christian girls? Can you blame a person for who they are attracted too? Aren't you as much to blame as they for not being interested in some women? Why weren't they interested in you? All that resentment isn't healthy, and you may be falling into the "nice guy" trap.

[Matthew]

I don't think I was being any more unfair to Christian girls as I thought that they were being unfair to me. If I am unfair it's only because I percieved many of them as unfair because they never seemed to want to give me a chance. In fact, many of them only seemed only to want Jesus, never any romantic desire with a man. Their repulsive thinking seemed to me to be "If I have Jesus in my life, what do I need a boyfriend/husband/romantic partner for?" It's almost as if they were expecting Jesus to be that romantic partner. I wouldn't blame a girl for who she finds physically attractive- we can't help our physical attraction to someone but I figured that there had to be at least one girl who should have been willing to give me a chance. But no..I wasn't Jesus so god forbid any of them actually consider me attractive enough to want romantic involvement with (I'm not talking about just physical attraction here; I'm also talking about what people find attractive personality-wise)

As for the resentment- I have never seemed to have gotten over it. I recall that if I ever became a Christian, I would socially and romantically shun Christian girls as much as I could and never have anything to do with them beyond bare acquantences. I recall thinking that if I ever came face to face with Yahweh, I would beg Yahweh to send me to hell so I wouldn't have to spend eternity with Christian girls. As for the "nice guy" trap- I know what you are talking about and I am trying to avoid that. In fact, I fell into that very trap as a Christian. I know many girls love confidence in a man but I was never confident in my Christian years; how could I have been confident if I thought God was "out to get me" and got such extreme pleasure from my mental anguish?

Matthew

I am still working on my confidence- I'm not as confident as I would like to be and I am still "discovering" me.

[Cloud_Walker]

I am an atheist because there are no convincing arguments for theism. I don't claim to know that there are or are not gods (agnostic) and I see no reason to believe in them (atheist). Therefore, I am an agnostic atheist or weak atheist.

Just plain not-believing-in-gods makes it easy for me. I don't have to spend hours upon hours debating with Christians about absolute morals or bible contradictions or the evidence for a historical or theological Jesus or any such details. I just undermime the basic premise.

Once you look at it from a scientific standpoint, the whole concept of deities starts to reveal itself as ridiculous.

By the way, Matthew, it says under your name that you are a deist...

[Ryokan]

I don't think I was being any more unfair to Christian girls as I thought that they were being unfair to me. If I am unfair it's only because I percieved many of them as unfair because they never seemed to want to give me a chance. In fact, many of them only seemed only to want Jesus, never any romantic desire with a man. Their repulsive thinking seemed to me to be "If I have Jesus in my life, what do I need a boyfriend/husband/romantic partner for?" It's almost as if they were expecting Jesus to be that romantic partner. I wouldn't blame a girl for who she finds physically attractive- we can't help our physical attraction to someone but I figured that there had to be at least one girl who should have been willing to give me a chance. But no..I wasn't Jesus so god forbid any of them actually consider me attractive enough to want romantic involvement with (I'm not talking about just physical attraction here; I'm also talking about what people find attractive personality-wise) You have to recognixe girls who feel this way represent a small, small subset of the Christian population.

As for the resentment- I have never seemed to have gotten over it. I recall that if I ever became a Christian, I would socially and romantically shun Christian girls as much as I could and never have anything to do with them beyond bare acquantences. I recall thinking that if I ever came face to face with Yahweh, I would beg Yahweh to send me to hell so I wouldn't have to spend eternity with Christian girls. As for the "nice guy" trap- I know what you are talking about and I am trying to avoid that. In fact, I fell into that very trap as a Christian. I know many girls love confidence in a man but I was never confident in my Christian years; how could I have been confident if I thought God was "out to get me" and got such extreme pleasure from my mental anguish?

Matthew

I am still working on my confidence- I'm not as confident as I would like to be and I am still "discovering" me.
I understand that you had a difficult experience. Some fundamentalist churches are really just abusive cults. And then if you have social developement problems tossed in, like me, it just makes things worse. But most christian girls are very nice. Its just a couple who are trouble. You need a narrower brush.

And I am glad you are trying to find yourself, but on't expect to succeed. Once you get a grip on "you", you've already changed :teeth:

[Matthew]

By the way, Matthew, it says under your name that you are a deist...

I used to be a deist and a libertarian. But I haven't changed my avatar and I cannot change it without paying dues. Without so, I cannot change my avatar, my signature, I cannot access pms to other members on here. None of this really bothers me since as long as I can post on these boards, that's all that matters. I haven't changed my avatar in over a year or so but then again, until recently, I hardly ever posted on TWeb. I haven't any interest in paying dues.

Matthew

[Gilgaron]

You don't need to pay dues to change any of that. Just got to the control panel and change your profile as you see fit.

[EvoUK]

I consider myself a weak atheist- due to there being a lack of reason to be a theist- I simply am not one. On top of that, I consider most religion today at best superfluous, yet also realise that they'll be here for a long time to come yet. Mankind is not yet ready for atheism it seems.

But you'll find the answer to your question pretty much the same: no reason to be a theist (contrary to what most christians on here will claim you'll find).

To quote LGM (who can be astute at times :wink:):

Thus we've discovered, that it is very unlikely that the entire universe and all its trillions of stars, planets and life forms were all put here just so one recent hominid species, on a single planet, could be "forgiven" by a petty bronze age tribal deity, and thus receive the prize of "eternal life", for believing some of the particulars about one specific story promoted by one first century, spin-off cult of this tribal religion.

When you think about it, the main premise of christianity is self-evidently rediculous and egotistical.

[Matthew]

You don't need to pay dues to change any of that. Just got to the control panel and change your profile as you see fit.

Wow! I didn't know that. I appreciate you sharing that with me! I seriously thought I had to pay dues or something. Well, I have completely changed everything on my profile. I'd like to put up a picture on my profile. I know of a awesome picture of Chancellor Palpatine from Star Wars that I can put on there! But I don't know how to!

Matthew

[mentored1]

You're asking about Atheism - but I'll throw my hat in anyways...

I was a born-again fundamental Bible Baptist for several years - as was my wife (still is) and kids being raised that way for now... My younger years were always filled with wonder at being alive (as they are for kids) and questions about why I was alive at all... That wonder kept me from settling on any answer and coupled with an insatiable hunger for knowledge I found many problems with Biblical interpretation and indeed with any dogmatic assertions about faith or supernatural powers...

But the final blow to any faith that kindled in me was when I couldn't discern whether it was the existence of God that was real or my faith in him (e.g. could God exist at all without faithful adherents?)... it was an paradoxical question for me (chicken-egg ordeal) and there is no satisfactory answer unless you just believe then all the answers come... So any dogmatic, systemic, etc philosophy of religion or otherwise is useless because the nature of human knowledge prevents anything from being known definitely without first assuming a position (belief, faith)...

But Agnostic I remain for in saying that without taking a position it is impossible to know I also find it impossible to deny... I am left with the wonder of my own consciousness - or why human beings are conscious at all if it is not necessary for survival... Thus that wonder still allows me some inquiry into things beyond the natural world... but a God made in man's image serves only man and without belief such a God cannot be demonstrated or even perceived...

Thanks for the question, take care!

[BeHereNow]

I always tell people I became an atheist because God told me to. For real.

Eventually, I came to a point of crumbling faith in the position of Christianity, and fervently prayed for God to move me. I fell asleep praying on the floor, and woke up with utter disbelief in Christianity, or any religion. It was like I've had new eyes since that day.

I'm a weak atheist.

[mentored1]

I always tell people I became an atheist because God told me to. For real.

Eventually, I came to a point of crumbling faith in the position of Christianity, and fervently prayed for God to move me. I fell asleep praying on the floor, and woke up with utter disbelief in Christianity, or any religion. It was like I've had new eyes since that day.

I'm a weak atheist.

That's interesting... I remember praying myself for guidance night after night and falling asleep... The lack of guidance or any semblance of it sapped the last embers of prayer from me... Of course I don't know now if I prayed to God because I believed or if I believed because I prayed... Either way...

Take care

[Timothy Leary]

I'm either a weak Deist or an Agnostic. I'd like to hope that there is something better than this - but I really don't think there is, and see absolutely no evidence to convince me that there are any higher powers.

I won't label myself as an Atheist, because I won't say that there isn't a God, but rather that there is no evidence for one. Most Atheists nowadays are also rabidly anti-religion - but I try to stay quite nuetral to it.

[Maimonides]

My thanks to Matthew for bringing this very important question up, especially in this context. I haven't exactly made it a secret that I'm 1) an atheist and 2) a former Christian so I'll take a crack at it.

I was raised in church. I was born in Santa Barbara and attended services with my family there at a church (Baptist) for the first few years of my life. I was three years old when we moved to Grass Valley, a small town up north in the Sierra foothills. We started attending services at a small Baptist church in the area. It was during this time that I became a Christian, at the tender age of four. The gospel message was presented in sunday school, and I think that was when I first knew what the whole church thing was about, so to speak. I remember feeling this deep compulsion to invite Jesus into my heart (that was how I understood it). I think the early years passed without any real incident: I was homeschooled and so my parents conducted bible studies with me and my siblings. I found religion a little boring at times (even quite boring), but of course I stuck with it. What else was I to do?

When I was about 6th-grade, we switched churches, to Calvary Chapel (a relatively new sect as of the mid-'60's, ostensibly non-denominational but really a denomination unto themselves), and attended there for many years. I would have been eleven years old, if I remember correctly.

It took me a while to fit in at Calvary Chapel: there were a lot of 'clicks' and I, being homeschooled, didn't go to school with these kids. I started fitting in better around freshman year and made lots of friends. I also attended summer camps with CCGV two summers in a row. I think my first one was the summer before my sophomore year (I'm having trouble remembering, it seems so long ago). I was scheduled to go to a really great private Christian school (great being a relative term, of course), because my parents and I decided that I needed some more interaction with my peers. And my mother had a lot to do anyway. My sister was going to attend, too: it would be her 8th-grade year.

And it was really here that the trouble actually started.

The problem, I think, was that I was a rather naive, susceptible young boy who truly LIKED church (I know that may be hard to believe but it was true), and for me church was the epicentre of my social world (kinda sad, huh?), and so I put a lot of stock in the whole god-thing. I REALLY wanted to hear from god, to have that presence in my life, and I think I was always kind of worried because it seemed like others had it down so much better than I (like I said, pretty naive); needless to say I wanted with all my heart to be a good Christian. I fretted about my (self-perceived) lack of holiness and my feelings of guilt for the inevitable transgressions of humanity, especially the pubescent. Did I mention I read my Bible and prayed every DAY?

So here was the problem: I felt that god was calling me to be a pastor. And, despite all my fervor, that was one thing I most definitely did NOT want to be. I wanted to be an archaeologist: I was really into the ancient cultures of Mesoamerica thanks to my home study.

That's the funny thing about gods: they're not like other imaginary friends. They don't just go away for the asking, they make you feel guilty and ask ridiculous, stupid, impossible things of you. (And god said to Abraham: "You will kill your son Isaac"; and Abraham said: "Speak up, I can't hear you, you'll have to talk into the microphone"...)

So anyway, it tormented me no end, day and night. But I tried to get it out of my way enough: after all, I was going to a new school and I was GENUINELY excited.

The school (it was near my church) turned out to be great. I did learn new things, but more importantly I met a lot of new people and made fast friends, some of whom I'm still in contact with.

So sophomore year passed, which brings us to summer. And I went to camp again. The feeling of compulsion to be a pastor was still there, like a dog gnawing at a foxtail and unable to worry it free. Camp wasn't nearly as fun that year: the days dragged by. The regimen from last year (personal bible study, religious services, more personal bible study, more religious services and you guessed it, GROUP bible study), continued and was UNBEARABLE. I have to admit I was really glad to go back home.

Not to brush over Junior year, but it doesn't really relate to my story. It passed largely without incident in this regard. I didn't go to Christian camp that summer, instead I went to the National Student Leadership Conference. That pretty much kicked the pants off Christian camp: I met a lot of people and had the little horizons of my narrow Christian world/view stretched and challenged.

One thing I should mention about Senior year is that my sister went to a public high school this year for the first time (she was having a harder time at the Christian school than was I: she was an even better student but didn't like the social atmosphere as much as I). And Senior year, some of the early stirrings of the second phase stirred to life.

To be continued...

[Doubting John]

I have just recently decided that atheism is the best answer to our existence. Some of you have already seen this thread, but for others, this is where I explained myself and listened to other atheists.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=63121&highlight=Doubting+John

The bottom line is that even if God existed, he would just be the god of this reality (one or many universes), he couldn't act in our world, and he's either uncaring or impotent or both. Such a god, even if he exists, is not worth my time. I neither would fear him nor worship him. He can do nothing for me, nor can he punish me. And when all is said and done, a distant god is no different than a nonexistent god.

Agnosticism is no answer, and according to Wm James, not an option, either. Why? Because our choice is forced upon us and living as an agnostic is unsettling and practically impossible. (my summation and extrapolation).

Since there must be an answer to the riddle of existence, and since no purposeful reason for this existence is forthcoming, the best explanation is that it all arose out of chance. Chance, ya see, cannot be figured out. If this universe happened by chance, then no wonder there are so many agnostics claiming they don't know. What these agnostics testify too is that the universe cannot be figured out from the perspective of a reason for it's existence based upon the assumption that it can be figured out.

While this might seem a contradiction, the reason it cannot be figured out is because it took place by chance. Hence, I think I've figured it out. [See the above thread to see me work through this apparent, but not real, contradiction.]

[Maimonides]

To be continued...

Okay, so I'm finally continuing this. Senior year quickly became pretty tedious. Did I mention that my private Christian school had quite the religious regimen? Chapel services once a week and mandatory Bible classes. And, perhaps fittingly, it was Bible class that first began giving me some trouble.

Honestly, I loved the teacher. He seemed a very intelligent, compassionate man and I had already had a class with him my Junior year. So there I was in Bible IV, and my Christian school was getting me and my senior class ready to defend our "Christian worldview" against the godless forces of a secular, humanistic world. This entailed watching a lot of very indoctrinating propaganda for the biblical-evangelical-Christian-worldview (BECW). I had McDowell for biblical historical accuracy (what a joke!), and a pile of others. The videos covered everything: the BECW take on rock and roll, homosexuality, the New Age movement, abortion, you name it. My favorite: a series that covered worldviews (guess which ONE was right!) And, surprise, my teacher read us the usual creationist drivel (earth is only 10/12,000 years old because moon dust blah blah Noah's flood blah blah and so on). Kent Hovind (yes, "dr. dino"), even came to my school (I can't remember if this was Junior or Senior year; I think senior), and told us how dinosaurs were 'big lizards who lived in the garden of Eden with Adam and Eve'. (Actually, that's pretty much verbatim)! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Actually, for all its shortcomings Bible was the best class that entire year. My other classes were a bore. I got senioritis hard and fast: I really think they had no idea what to do with us, for the most part.

By the end of senior year I was kind of in a funk. I didn't really have a definite direction I was headed in life, didn't know where I was going to go or what I was going to do, although I sure hoped it wouldn't involve being a pastor (yes, that spectre never entirely went away for a long time). I had decided well before this (with the input and support of my parents) to attend a community college for a couple of years and stay close to home while I figured out what I wanted to do.

That summer is still very surreal to me. I can remember feeling anger toward my high school for their dogmatism (something that haunted me for a long time) and lack of free inquiry. I was working a new job and it was a lot of work. My friends were all off to college and I didn't see much of them. And I didn't have a girlfriend or anything so it was pretty much work and stay close to home and get ready for college.

College, when it started, proved to be very challenging. I worked very hard, learned new stuff, and got good grades. And I found my Christian worldview, so neatly assembled for me, was severely challenged by the realities of my expanded experience. For example, I took a class on the history of world art, where a question that had nagged me before resurfaced: how could god send all these other (non-European) cultures to hell? It didn't make sense and I couldn't get an intellectually satisfying answer. It seemed that Christianity could quite easily be used to justify, or at least ameliorate, such reprehensible acts as the Columbian genocides. And of course, I was confronted, really for the first time, by: you guessed it, Darwinian evolution.

As time passed I became aware of the need to do some serious studying. I had been taught to believe a particular, narrow view based on "faith", but if I was to ascertain whether that faith was justified I was going to have to get informed. That was the grand conclusion of my first semester at community college.

That winter I decided to major in Anthropology. It was a momentous decision, and I think a real turning point for me. It marked, I believe, a crucial step in my liberation and transformation. The supposed call to the clergy was discarded, indeed had already largely been discarded. And so it was that I chose to take my first three anthropology classes that spring.

To be continued...

[fool]

Matthew;
You don't sound like an Atheist to me.
You sound like a Christian that is pissed off cause he can't get a date.
A dry spell in the social life is a poor reason to reject the existence of God.
I'd say concentrate on getting a date first, and worry about the ultimate truth of all things later.
Just my opinion.

[Matthew]

Matthew;
You don't sound like an Atheist to me.
You sound like a Christian that is pissed off cause he can't get a date.
A dry spell in the social life is a poor reason to reject the existence of God.
I'd say concentrate on getting a date first, and worry about the ultimate truth of all things later.
Just my opinion.

I hate to disappoint you but I am an atheist. I am an atheist in almost every sense of the word. I lack belief in any god, I believe that the existence of Yahweh is actually impossible, I believe that the Bible is extremely errant in many aspects and that the resurrection never happened, and further, I believe that there are excellent reasons for being a philosophic naturalist. I used to be a Christian who was pissed off because no girl would give him the time of day. As for a "dry spell"- I was very deeply depressed for over 5 years and constantly suicidal. Now that tends to really concern some people. They might raise their eyebrows and think "You were suicidal all because you were single?" Back then, it was a very big deal for me. I am no longer going through a "dry spell" and I happen to lack a social life. Perhaps I can meet some good atheist girls when I pick up on a social life. Christian girls are permanently out of the equation.

Nowadays, I reject the existence of any god because I believe not only is there no really good reason to accept the existence of any god, but there is every reason to believe that we lived in a closed, naturalistic cosmos with nothing transcending it, including the "supernatural" and this would mean deities. I am convinced that biblical criticism has pretty much killed all the creeds of orthodox Christian belief, modern philosophy has pretty much destroyed the "classical proofs" and the collective efforts of modern philosophy and science have destroyed any modern arguments for any god(s).

Here is my position. If you still doubt I am an atheist, so be it. I'm really not going to argue with anyone over it. I am in a continual process of evolution. I went from being an intellectual agnostic and emotional atheist to now being a complete emotional and intellectual atheist. I may have some agnostic tendencies but much more of an atheist than anything else (I prefer to call myself a "philosopic naturalist")

Matthew

p.s. Fool, do you happen to know any cute, single, and very affectionate atheist girls?

[rach12]

Well Matthew, that was a much better affirmation of your beliefs. Reading the OP had me thinking the same thing fool stated.

[Matthew]

Well Matthew, that was a much better affirmation of your beliefs. Reading the OP had me thinking the same thing fool stated.

:lol: It'd be an odd thing to be a Christian with a chip on his shoulder being allowed to post in the "Naturalism" section. But my previous post also represents a change in my thinking from when I first began this thread and it's a evolution over the past number of months. Quite honestly, I couldn't be a Christian nowadays. I couldn't live as a Christian and be single; I might've died of a broken heart or killed myself a few years ago, rather than deconvert to Deism, to agnosticism, then to atheistic naturalism. In fact, I came quite close to doing this as a Christian. It's frightening to speak of those times because of my emotional/mental instability and how I had to work hard to stablilize myself after deconverting.

I hope you and Fool don't have any doubts that I am an atheist now.

Matthew

[rach12]

I think I understand now. Your atheism wasn't a rebellion against a god who left you lonely, but rather your lonliness provoked an examination of your beliefs.

While my atheism wasn't a shock to me as I have never been interested in religion, even as a child, there were things that induced me to look closer at the god concept.

And don't worry about what others think. It was just the OP that was a bit weird, but now it makes more sense.

[Kulindrichnus]

:lol: It'd be an odd thing to be a Christian with a chip on his shoulder being allowed to post in the "Naturalism" section. But my previous post also represents a change in my thinking from when I first began this thread and it's a evolution over the past number of months. Quite honestly, I couldn't be a Christian nowadays. I couldn't live as a Christian and be single; I might've died of a broken heart or killed myself a few years ago, rather than deconvert to Deism, to agnosticism, then to atheistic naturalism. In fact, I came quite close to doing this as a Christian. It's frightening to speak of those times because of my emotional/mental instability and how I had to work hard to stablilize myself after deconverting.

I hope you and Fool don't have any doubts that I am an atheist now.

Matthew

Your situation really is an excellent example of how religions, almost invariably, make bad situations worse.

K

[XaositectCrayon]

I'm gonna throw mine in anyways since I am not "technically" athiest
I'm agnostic as far as dietys go and I believe in a spiritual undercurrent to all living things.

It mostly came about through observation and logic. For a long time I was agnostic (I could never bring myself to believe anything's impossible). Then I heard people preaching on a soapbox that all things were determined by our chemical structure. This is something I dismissed but it haunted me again and again.

I read up alot on things like Aleister Crowley, early bible beliefs, the Christ myth, the doscetic Christ, wicca, levayism, and the Nag Hammadi. It all seemed to seed together in some strange dualistic way with the "chemical determinism" theory.
beyond this (though irrelevant because I already said how I fell out of theism) I slowly started getting the feel of my soul. The diety may or may not exist. It's rather worthless to know whether or not it does. The ideas of heaven seem like escapeism from death and there's evidence to believe Jesus was pushing a philosaphy on the wheels of Jewish reform.

[lao tzu]

Am I the only one here who thinks the words "atheist" and "agnostic" are being tossed about with wild abandon and oblivious intent? I know an agnostic theist who moderates on an atheistic board.

I am an atheist exactly because I am not a theist, and I have a great love for specificity in definition. I am not a theist because I cannot discern any definition of god that makes sense. I am a Taoist because I identify with a worldview that seeks spiritual truth without requiring prior knowledge.

I became an atheist because I was angry with MyGod™ for failing to exist. Oh, and for changing me into a newt, too. I got over that last, but the first is still a sticking point. Happily, I have reached a point of compromise with respect to the christian god described in the new testament.
But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
Good enough for Thomas is good enough for me.

[Jayhawker Soule]

Am I the only one here who thinks the words "atheist" and "agnostic" are being tossed about with wild abandon and oblivious intent?While I doubt that the phrase "oblivious intent" is either warranted or meaningful, it's pretty clear that the terms 'atheist' and 'agnostic' mean different things to different people.

I am an atheist exactly because I am not a theist, and I have a great love for specificity in definition.... and of tautology. :wink:

I am not a theist because I cannot discern any definition of god that makes sense.That's interesting, because it suggests an insistence that God "make sense", and this, in turn, seems to me a selection criteria easily mired in anthropopathism. What, for exmple, about the Deist God does not "make sense"?

I am a Taoist because I identify with a worldview that seeks spiritual truth without requiring prior knowledge.Perhaps you could tell me what you mean by "spiritual truth".

Good enough for Thomas is good enough for me.My atheism is simply a consequence of a commitment to naturalism. For those who are somewhat unfamiliar with this term, I can think of no berrer introduction that Dr. Barbara Forrest's Methodological Naturalism and Philosophical Naturalism: Clarifying the Connection (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/barbara_forrest/naturalism.html) where she notes:
For the philosophical naturalist, the rejection of supernaturalism is a case of "death by a thousand cuts." Since its inception, methodological naturalism has consistently chipped away at the plausibility of the existential claims made by supernaturalism by providing increasingly successful explanations of aspects of the world which religion has historically sought to explain, e.g., human origins. The threat faced by supernaturalism is not the threat of logical disproof, but the fact of having its explanations supplanted by scientific ones.

< -- snip -- >

The known world expands, and the world of impenetrable mystery shrinks. With every expanse, something is explained which at an earlier point in history had been permanently consigned to supernatural mystery or metaphysical speculation. And the expansion of scientific knowledge has been and remains an epistemological threat to any claims which have been fashioned independently (or in defiance) of such knowledge. We are confronted with an asymptotic decrease in the existential possibility of the supernatural to the point at which it is wholly negligible.

[rach12]

My atheism is simply a consequence of a commitment to naturalism. For those who are somewhat unfamiliar with this term, I can think of no berrer introduction that Dr. Barbara Forrest's Methodological Naturalism and Philosophical Naturalism: Clarifying the Connection (http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/barbara_forrest/naturalism.html) ...

<snip>Thanks, Jay. That was an excellent piece.

[Jimmy Higgins]

Too many reasons. One doesn't make a such a societal jump without good rational reason. Of course, I'm an actual atheist, not an angry theist.

As a young person, about 12, while in church the arbitrariness of christianity became apparent. It didn't take long after that. A bit dark until I turned 17 and read the Tao Te Ching which taught me that there can be honest and meaningful answers without god(s). And toss in all that pesky real-life experience too.

I find the more conservative a christian is, the more clueless (more appropriately less experienced) about life they are. The more you see, the more you realize the less you know.

I've studied the bible in decent detail, went to a christian college, continued study of Genesis and the Old Testament well after college. Really started to confirm what I had originally saw in Genesis after simple readings of it in the beginning. Confirming my inital beliefs, I've seen no reason to think theism is of any truth.

Granted, no one can really know if there is or isn't a god(s), however, minus any actual evidence, there is no reason to believe.

[Mentalist]

I'm an athiest because no evidence has compelled me to think otherwise. I've always been an athiest.

I've never found any creator god arguments compelling, all I've come across so far have had significant flaws.
I've never had an experience that I could consider being due to any god concept.
I've never found any "holy" book to be compelling evidence for anything other than the imagination (and other attributes) of humans.
I've found many god concepts to be self-contradictory.
I've found many god concepts to be contradictory to my experiences.

[material_miser]

I am an atheist exactly because I am not a theist, and I have a great love for specificity in definition.



The only problem with being a definition stickler is that few others (particularly the uninformed masses) will know where the terms pick up and leave off. They throw the terms around with wreckless abandon indeed. I found that it became easier to just use them as people around me use them and not worry about it. Even Shermer's hacking apart "non-theist" from "atheist" becomes a little tedious after a while to the not-so-concerned listener.

MM

[shenaracuso]

I suppose i'm not really atheist - i don't really know what i am, but this seemed to be an accurate representation of why i do not know.


Considering my observations of the world and such, i cannot completely discount the possibility of entities/consciousness in a directive kind of job. I simply think that we do not know, and will not know for some time, enough to make lucid judgements on the nature of such consciousness.


To me, religion is a matter of metaphor for human conditions and psychologies. I am metaphorically Hindu, though i do not beleive in the concrete reality of the religion. To think that there actually is a big DIETY in the clouds watching us all is somewhat ridiculous considering that we know the earth isn't the center of the universe and all.

However, as a tool for explaining the way socieities and peoples work, religion is very useful. It's just when people begin to take it literally that things become rather uncomfortable.

So, though i am only semi-religious, the mysticism that comes with religion to me seems silly. There are concrete definitions to everything - we simply aren't knowledgeable enough to figure out these definitions.

-Jes

[Kev76]

Matthew, may I ask; when you sought out a girlfriend was there anything that you were doing during those years which you thought you shouldn't do? For example, were you drinking a lot or have any involvement with drugs or anything of that nature which you found hard to give up?

[XaositectCrayon]

I suppose i'm not really atheist - i don't really know what i am, but this seemed to be an accurate representation of why i do not know.


Considering my observations of the world and such, i cannot completely discount the possibility of entities/consciousness in a directive kind of job. I simply think that we do not know, and will not know for some time, enough to make lucid judgements on the nature of such consciousness.


To me, religion is a matter of metaphor for human conditions and psychologies. I am metaphorically Hindu, though i do not beleive in the concrete reality of the religion. To think that there actually is a big DIETY in the clouds watching us all is somewhat ridiculous considering that we know the earth isn't the center of the universe and all.

However, as a tool for explaining the way socieities and peoples work, religion is very useful. It's just when people begin to take it literally that things become rather uncomfortable.

So, though i am only semi-religious, the mysticism that comes with religion to me seems silly. There are concrete definitions to everything - we simply aren't knowledgeable enough to figure out these definitions.

-Jes

hinduism is pantheistic isnt it? Vishnu, that perserver guy (forgot his name) and shiva all make up one complete cycle of the universe that could be interpreted as one god right?