Plug In Hybrids - Gas Prices Finally High Enough to Cause Change?

[Teallaura]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165650,00.html

According to economists, adjusted for inflation, gas prices have not yet reached their 1981 record high levels - but they seem to be closing in on the mark. SUV's are beginning to pile up on car lots and hybrids can be made fast enough. The linked article is an example of someone modifying a hybrid for even better (unbelievably so) gas mileage.

So, are gas prices finally reaching the levels necessary to spur real change?

[Zarathustra]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165650,00.html

According to economists, adjusted for inflation, gas prices have not yet reached their 1981 record high levels - but they seem to be closing in on the mark. SUV's are beginning to pile up on car lots and hybrids can be made fast enough. The linked article is an example of someone modifying a hybrid for even better (unbelievably so) gas mileage.

So, are gas prices finally reaching the levels necessary to spur real change?

I really REALLY hope so. Else earth will be:sos: 'ing soon and in my world view; no one will come to the rescue. :sad:

[Ryokan]

I don't we will suffer the collapse of Western Civilization. But I think Americans are going to have to get used to public transportation and little cars.

[Rubia Warren]

How risky is it to purchase a hybrid now, though? Who can work on it besides the dealer (<-- that's a real question, I'm not making a point). Are they so similar to regular engines that most mechanics should be able to work on them? I never see the first Honda Hybrids that came out a few years back. You know... the really ugly ones. What happened to them? Did many of them die? I am very tempted to buy a hybrid, but am not sure if it is a good idea-- especially used ones in the paper I see. I'm scared!

[Mark_S]

How risky is it to purchase a hybrid now, though? Who can work on it besides the dealer (<-- that's a real question, I'm not making a point). Are they so similar to regular engines that most mechanics should be able to work on them? I never see the first Honda Hybrids that came out a few years back. You know... the really ugly ones. What happened to them? Did many of them die? I am very tempted to buy a hybrid, but am not sure if it is a good idea-- especially used ones in the paper I see. I'm scared!

Toyota's Hybreds come with a very long warranty (like 100,000 miles on the hybred components), though converting them to plug-ins will void it. Plug ins worry me for other reasons, the foremost being that Public service freaks when its 90F and everybody uses their air conditioning. I can't imagine what would happen if they had to deal if a sizable portion of the population raised the sustained usage to charge their cars on a daily basis.

[themuzicman]

It's difficult to compare hybrids to SUVs, since many who buy SUVs are in need of more space than a hybrid can offer. I would suspect that minivan sales would rise, should the gas-guzzling SUV fall out of favor. I don't have numbers on that.

Chances are that those producing hybrids are beginning to market them a bit more in light of the gas price increases, and that is simply having an effect on sales apart from the SUV market.

In short, hybrids are the flavor of the month, as it were.


I do think that this will begin to drive innovation in the transportation and energy markets, but I also think that pressure will build on congress to remove barriers to US domestic oil, such as that in ANWR and off-shore.

In short, as the market makes demands, innovators respond.

[anthrogirl]

In my city, it is not uncommon to see hybrids zipping around. Public Transportation is free in the downtown area. We also have free electrical hookups and parking spaces for electric cars (and the parking spaces are prime--right in front of major buildings)--that's right, it's free to charge up your electric car downtown. We also have excellent bicycle transportation.

It can be done. We do it every day--rain or shine. It makes for a very clean, beautiful, and livable city.

:smile:
ag

[themuzicman]

In my city, it is not uncommon to see hybrids zipping around. Public Transportation is free in the downtown area. We also have free electrical hookups and parking spaces for electric cars (and the parking spaces are prime--right in front of major buildings)--that's right, it's free to charge up your electric car downtown. We also have excellent bicycle transportation.

It can be done. We do it every day--rain or shine. It makes for a very clean, beautiful, and livable city.

:smile:
ag
"Free"... Yeah, meaning that the taxpayers are covering the cost... probably at an exorbatant rate.

[anthrogirl]

In my state, people are not allowed to pump their own gas (we also don't have a sales tax, but that's a different story)--this, in part, makes gas prices more expensive for the consumer. I think 1 hr's worth of electricity is probably still cheaper than gas.

If you are genuinely interested (and not trolling), I would be happy to lookup the information and post it here. But I ain't gonna spend the time on it if you aren't interested. Let me know.

ag

[Arnold]

Just saw a feature on the ABC Evening News about hybrids. Apparently they do not get the gas milage the manufacturers claim. A Consumer organization tested some and found them wanting. The Toyota Camry hybrid after five years offered only an $82 saving over the standard Camry when increased purchase price, increased insurance cost and increased devaluation costs were taken into account.

And something that I have not seen mentioned anywhere about the plugin hybrids is how long the batteries last before they need to be replaced and how expensive that replacement is (all rechargable batteries wear out).

[Teallaura]

CNN did a short piece on it - the guy they mentioned having modified a Prius to be a plug in spent around $3000 to do it. I would imagine that full battery replacement would be a little less than that. Depending on how long they last and how good the gas mileage, it could be well worth it. :shrug:

Personally, my current best bet is to buy a used diesel and get a converter kit to vegetable oil - and make friends with all the fast food places! :teeth:

[anthrogirl]

Personally, my current best bet is to buy a used diesel and get a converter kit to vegetable oil - and make friends with all the fast food places! :teeth:


These cars are also fairly popular in my city. Quite cost-effective!

ag

[Ryokan]

I think hybrid diesel may be the future.

[Amazing Rando]

Hybrids rule! I bought my 2003 Civic hybrid two years ago, and it's fantastic! 45-50 miles per gallon and never needs plugging in. My wife and I just ordered a hybrid SUV for her- the Ford Escape. It's large enough for lugging anything around, yet still gets between 33-36 mpg.

Buy em if you can folks! It's good stewardship of your resources!

[Rubia Warren]

Hopefully Hybrids will still be showing promise in the future. I'm not in the position to take on debt for a vehicle, and going through Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover changed my mind about debt. I am almost rid of my car payment, and I vow to never have another, I will pay cash. If they turn out to really be a great thing, then in 4 or 5 years, I will purchase one used for cash.
As for now, I had to do something about my car- I commute to school, and Grand Prixs don't get really great gas mileage. I have a nice S-10 pickup (2.2L) that does pretty well, but slides in the snow and I needed a car affordable to drive that at least I can cram my kid into.
In my area, the prices of small cars have already shot up further than I'm willing to pay, so I got a car today the Rubia way:
I found a repo car hidden at the back of a dealer's parking lot with a busted window and checked it out, made the guy an offer. It needs a passenger side window, and a new wire harness in the engine compartment. Motor is fine and tranny is fine, it has 119,000 miles on it, possibly will need a starter if it didn't burn along with some of the wiring. Body is perfect condition as well as the interior, but both are filthy and need cleaned. I bought a 1997 Toyota Corolla today for 300 bucks. It will prolly be a few weeks before I can drive it because it needs so much work and care, but we have a mechanic friend who will do the wiring, and my husband can do the rest. I am pretty excited! It is a gamble- one in which, at best, I will be driving a paid-for '97 vehicle that is nice for prolly no more than 1000 bucks, getting kick-butt gas milage compared to what I get now. At worst, I just bought myself a 500 dollar lawn ornament, :blush: in which case, I'll have to get another Corolla and use this one for parts or vice versa. It was thoroughly checked out by my peoples though, and my husband is pretty confident that it can be done. Which has led me to feel compelled to go through another round of car-flipping with my husband.
We've got a little bit of money right now, and we are using it to buy cheap 3- and 4-bangers at a low price to fix and flip for a profit while we still can. It is unbelievable what some seedy dealers are asking for them right now ($4000 for a '99 Metro that is all jacked up?!? 7 months ago, they were less than 1500 and were in better shape:shocked:) and people are actually giving them the time of day. :no: It hasn't really blown up yet, but I am smelling it already, so it's time to start flippin' again. SO we are scouring obscure rural places in search of small cars that need a bit of work. Today we found a '95 Metro with a great body and tranny that needs a motor, for $100. We're going to the salvage yard tomorrow to find a motor for it at a good price so we can fix it, and sit on it for a bit until people really want small cars. :yes: It will make a nice work car for somebody not looking to spend 4 grand on a Metro. Worst case scenario: It won't sell no matter how low the price and Rubia will be driving a '95 Metro and getting over 40 MPG. Oh darn. :hehe: Scarf up those little cars while you can, folks-- just don't get 'em before I do. :teeth:

[Teallaura]

Cool!

I have a 2001 Corolla (almost paid off - I too have intentions of never having another car payment - Larry Burkett, Debt Free Living - :woohoo:) and I love it. It has required extremely little work despite having nearly 200,000 miles on it. The pads and rotors next week will bring the repair total to just under $500 in four years! I'll never own another American made until they can match that kind of reliability!

I'd read about a guy who bought a Mercedes diesel (obviously old - late 80's I think) for a few hundred bucks and converted it to vegetable oil (kits run a couple hundred if I recall correctly). I'd love to do something like that... :smile:

[Thomas2003]

In my state, people are not allowed to pump their own gas (we also don't have a sales tax, but that's a different story)--this, in part, makes gas prices more expensive for the consumer. I think 1 hr's worth of electricity is probably still cheaper than gas.

If you are genuinely interested (and not trolling), I would be happy to lookup the information and post it here. But I ain't gonna spend the time on it if you aren't interested. Let me know.

ag

What state is this? Is there a law against self service gas or something, and I thought all states had a sales tax - man that is great to hear. Just which state, pray tell?

[Rubia Warren]

I think it's Oregon.

[Thomas2003]

Cool!

I have a 2001 Corolla (almost paid off - I too have intentions of never having another car payment - Larry Burkett, Debt Free Living - :woohoo:) and I love it. It has required extremely little work despite having nearly 200,000 miles on it. The pads and rotors next week will bring the repair total to just under $500 in four years! I'll never own another American made until they can match that kind of reliability!

I'd read about a guy who bought a Mercedes diesel (obviously old - late 80's I think) for a few hundred bucks and converted it to vegetable oil (kits run a couple hundred if I recall correctly). I'd love to do something like that... :smile:


BioDiesel is a definite opportunity - but, of course, the reality is that eventually lots of people will be making their own and obtaining the used oils is going to be a problem. Alcohol is another good source, especially if you can grow your own grain. I have a friend, a chemist, that is in the process of developing his own system for this for his personal use. Most fleet cars are all designed to run on 80% ethanol, so you just find one of these used and make your own fuel.

Another alternative is fuel vaporizers, I tried one of these and my 11 mpg Chevy Express 3500 went to 16 mpg, it's ugly but it works. These hybrids are an ok idea, but not very practical when you have a whole bunch of young'ens - we'd have to buy 3 cars and hire a driver just to go anywhere.

http://www.increase-gas-mileage.com/

[Rubia Warren]

Cool!

I have a 2001 Corolla (almost paid off - I too have intentions of never having another car payment - Larry Burkett, Debt Free Living - :woohoo:) and I love it. It has required extremely little work despite having nearly 200,000 miles on it. The pads and rotors next week will bring the repair total to just under $500 in four years! I'll never own another American made until they can match that kind of reliability!

I'd read about a guy who bought a Mercedes diesel (obviously old - late 80's I think) for a few hundred bucks and converted it to vegetable oil (kits run a couple hundred if I recall correctly). I'd love to do something like that... :smile:

That is awesome. I, too love foreign cars. This Grand Prix we have runs well, never given us problems.... however, it's extremely uncomfortable, is rattly, and sucks gas. I'll never buy any more American cars-- and I usually try to buy everything American (then again, though, Toyota makes some stuff here.....)
I, too would love to convert a diesel. I think that'd be straight funky. :hehe: My uncle bought a nice big '95 Ford turbo diesel from his company for like 500 bucks and no one is buying it-- he had hoped to flip it for a profit to pay off his credit cards. If no one takes it though, he is seriously considering doing that, and just driving it himself.

[Rubia Warren]

Another alternative is fuel vaporizers, I tried one of these and my 11 mpg Chevy Express 3500 went to 16 mpg, it's ugly but it works. These hybrids are an ok idea, but not very practical when you have a whole bunch of young'ens - we'd have to buy 3 cars and hire a driver just to go anywhere.

http://www.increase-gas-mileage.com/
Hey, I went to that link and that is cool. I'm going to show it to my husband tomorrow. Thanks for posting that link. :flowers:

[anthrogirl]

What state is this? Is there a law against self service gas or something, and I thought all states had a sales tax - man that is great to hear. Just which state, pray tell?

I live in Oregon. Our property taxes and income taxes are higher because we don't have sales tax. Sales tax comes up at every election--but we always vote it down.

Biodiesal and hybrid cars are quite common here.

Oregon is a magical land of environmentalism, beautiful landscape, peace-loving educated folks...and loads and loads of meth!

ag

[Conductor42]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,165650,00.html

According to economists, adjusted for inflation, gas prices have not yet reached their 1981 record high levels - but they seem to be closing in on the mark. SUV's are beginning to pile up on car lots and hybrids can be made fast enough. The linked article is an example of someone modifying a hybrid for even better (unbelievably so) gas mileage.

So, are gas prices finally reaching the levels necessary to spur real change?
We really don't need to worry about hybrids yet.

We just need to import some of the diesel cars they use in Europe (you know, the ones that get 80-100 mpg)

[Ben Franklin]

I think hybrid diesel may be the future.

Even if it is, it's a short-term solution. I'd like to see the world increase it's use of nuclear fission/fusion power to avoid an inevitable future oil war...! A steam-powered car, like in the old days, but with nuclear fuel...? Hmmm...