Do atheists hate authority?

[Alien]

The other day I was accused by a Christian friend of rejecting the idea of God because I am anti-authority. Whereas I don't think that is the basis for my atheism, I have to admit that it is true. I hated my parents telling me what to do, I hated my teachers telling me what to do, I would have hated military service, I hate my boss telling me what to do and I hate my wife telling me what to do.

And guess what, I would hate a god telling me what to do as well.

Oddly, while I hate arbitrary authority, I can be quite easily led, provided that the leader has my respect and explains the reasons for his request. Even then, I reserve the ultimate right to decide whether or not to follow.

So, do you think there is an atheist "mindset" that leads us to question authority figures, or am I the odd one out?

[juliod]

So, do you think there is an atheist "mindset" that leads us to question authority figures, or am I the odd one out?

No, I do not think this is an inherent property of atheists.

It may be that atheists tend to be less submissive to authority, since the authority of a church is one of the main powers in society. Once you break the bonds of one authority you can see the fiction (or the convention) of other forms of authority.

A christian that accuses you of being against or afraid of authority is just jealous of what they think is your freedom.

DanZ

[Joe Meert]

Today @ 05:37 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=125770#post125770)
juliod:



No, I do not think this is an inherent property of atheists.

It may be that atheists tend to be less submissive to authority, since the authority of a church is one of the main powers in society. Once you break the bonds of one authority you can see the fiction (or the convention) of other forms of authority.

A christian that accuses you of being against or afraid of authority is just jealous of what they think is your freedom.

DanZ

JM: Well, as a Christian, then atheist, then Christian I am not so sure it's a question of authority. I think it's a question of simply questioning. Is that Clintonesque enough for you?

Cheers

Joe Meert

[dizzle]

Joe this section is for generally nontheist participation for "in house" discussions/debates between nontheists.

[rocket]

No, Atheists don't believe in authority so they don't hate it.

[LGM]

Today @ 05:42 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=125775#post125775)
Joe Meert:

JM: Well, as a Christian, then atheist, then Christian I am not so sure it's a question of authority. I think it's a question of simply questioning. Is that Clintonesque enough for you?


I would agree that it is more the aspect of being skeptical of outrageous claims that lack evidence, than the authority part. But clearly the two go hand in hand.

I certainly am not brave enough to question my wife's authority...
how would I ever find my keys again? :teeth:

As someone who has mistakenly posted in forums where "my kind" was not allowed, I must admit, I see no reason a Christian who has also been an atheist would not be allowed to post here.
I certainly understand why there are rules, but I would prefer to be moderated for my ad hominem, or sarcasm instead of my theism. Just feels like "Jim Crow" to me...

In fact I've been thinking of starting a new thread to ask Dee Dee how, and how often, she performs the theist "litmus test" to determine the eligibilty to post in specific forums. Where do you get to post if you are in the midst of a conversion or de-conversion? What if you are a religous schizophrenic? Questions like these will keep me up at night...

Please do not comment on Moderator action in the thread, see the follow article of our decorum:

Please respect any comments/warnings by the Moderators. Any grievances with their action should be addressed to the Forum Administrators in Private Message, Email or in the Dean’s Office. If you feel you must repetitively complain, whine, or otherwise bellyache, please take it to the Locker Room.

Ironic that this came up in a thread about authority.



truly,

LGM

-peace and understanding
LGM

[Nowhere357]

Alien:

So, do you think there is an atheist "mindset" that leads us to question authority figures, or am I the odd one out?
I do not think there is an atheist "mindset" about authority. The tag "atheist" is so very general - it really tells us nothing, other than a professed disbelief in mythical god(s). Although in my experience, atheists are more likely to have a questioning attitude.

I think that acceptance of authority gave us an evolutionary advantage - the ability to work together. The wolves become a pack, transcendant, like the emergence of a group mind, or something.

Are skepticism and acceptance polar, or is one more evolved than the other?


.

[Vorkosigan]

There sure as heck is no atheist anti-authority mindset. Confucianism is as atheistic as they come, but it is very authoritarian. So is Communism. For me, belief systems (Communism, Catholicism, Islam, Facism), rather than belief stances (atheist, theist, ESP-er) are authoritarian.

Atheism is just a lack of belief in gods. For all other behavioral and cognitive traits, one must apply to the individual herself for an explanation.

Vorkosigan

[Alien]

Nowhere357:
I do not think there is an atheist "mindset" about authority. The tag "atheist" is so very general - it really tells us nothing, other than a professed disbelief in mythical god(s). Although in my experience, atheists are more likely to have a questioning attitude.

I was thinking about the "whole" atheist person, and in particular the atheist in our society, where "God" is generally accepted as an authority. In an atheist society, perhaps the anti-authority person would become a theist.

I think that acceptance of authority gave us an evolutionary advantage - the ability to work together. The wolves become a pack, transcendant, like the emergence of a group mind, or something.

Are skepticism and acceptance polar, or is one more evolved than the other?


Remember that selection takes place between individuals within a species, not as a group. So, both co-operation and rebellion can be examined to see if they affect survival negatively or positively. We can see that some species have been successful with no co-operation whatsoever (or very little) some have almost total co-operation with no individuality (like ants) and some (like us) have a mixture. Thus, in humans, co-operation confers an advantage on an individual, but breaking the rules can confer an advantage also, provided it doesn't draw too much negative attention (punishment) from the other members of the group.

Another thought is that, as the co-operating group becomes more in control of its environment, it is more able to tolerate dissenters (they don't threaten the survival of the group so much, because there is more "slack"). Ironically, then, perhaps the "co-operators" create the environment in which the rebels flourish. :smile:

[AtheistArchon]

- I don't hate or distrust all authority. For example, there are speed limits. I know that the authority that placed those limits there did it for a reason; presumably to save lives. So I'm okay with it.

- Theistic authority, or an appeal to supernaturalism, is the thing I have a problem with. For example, "homosexuality is wrong". Why? "Because god says so". Insufficient. In fact, "because god says so" is insufficient for any question.

[John Powell]

POWELL:
I suspect that there is a significant positive correlation between modern adult atheism in theist-dominated societies and the resistance of authority. If most adult atheists got that way from a religious background then they would need to be significantly anti-authority in mindset to have a reasonable chance of reaching the new philosophy.

I wonder if atheism is something more common in the leaders of ancient societies, especially those who rebelled against the previous authority to set up their own.

John Powell

[Ryokan]

I don't think so. I am one of those evil Fascists Vork was talking about.:wink:

[Karl_Franz]

As someone who first went to boarding school, then after leaving it joined the Navy, I can say that I have no problem with authority whatsoever.

Where this idea could come from is that Atheists tend to be more questioning (a generalisation, I know, but I consider it a fair one) than your average Theist, and as a result don't accept imposed authority so easily.

[ACow]

I believe you could say, like general other independant types, is that it is not neccesarily a dislike of all authority, but more so a dislike of unjustified authority, and most authority seems to be like that in my eyes.

To take the school example, i didn't like a great number of teachers because they all spoke with authority, even sometimes when their decisions were quite plainly wrong. They'd disclipine kids for being picked on, and let the bully's go, and stuff like that. They seemed to care more about you knowing your place, or keeping you quiet than actual justice, and then half of the time when it came to teaching the subject, they didn't actually know what they were going on about.

But there were afew teachers whom i could get along with, because they were willing to explain their decisions, they were reasonable, and they treated you like a person. Though i suppose that doesn't mean they had authority over me, more so that we had mutual respect and could therefore get along great together.

I doubt i could stand being in the army for similar reasons, especially lately. I'd probably laugh or argue with a drill sargeant for trying to tell me what to do, especially if it was unjust or if i could think of a better way to do it. I wouldn't obey orders if i didn't think they were the best, and i couldn't stand to run under others deficient plans.

Okay, so maybe i do have a general problem with authority. But that doesn't change the fact that there are still a number of classical authority figures that i get along great with, as long as their friendly, justified in being in their position, and generally nice blokes.

I don't think it has anything to do with my rejection of the christian god, but if it did, maybe if he would just come down and have a nice chat/debate/Q&A session with me, then we could be best buds :P

[Harlequin Solit]

Atheists hate closed-mindedness and ignorance.

[Queen]

Nope, No hate for authority here. I rule, so I want to be loved and respected.....I am the Queen.....


:lmbo:

sorry, I could not behave myself........me and ruling...bwaaahahaaahaaa....oh wait, a class of 14 yo students handle my " authority" well, because I am not like that at all. I am all for respect.....from both sides! Those teens know what they want nowadays...they surprise you every day with their own good look at life and the world...

Oops, I am rambling..... :ahem:
Lots of love and sunshine,
Queen

[Ben Franklin]

06-17-2003 @ 09:39 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=125737#post125737)
Alien:

The other day I was accused by a Christian friend of rejecting the idea of God because I am anti-authority. Whereas I don't think that is the basis for my atheism, I have to admit that it is true. I hated my parents telling me what to do, I hated my teachers telling me what to do, I would have hated military service, I hate my boss telling me what to do and I hate my wife telling me what to do.

And guess what, I would hate a god telling me what to do as well.

Oddly, while I hate arbitrary authority, I can be quite easily led, provided that the leader has my respect and explains the reasons for his request. Even then, I reserve the ultimate right to decide whether or not to follow.

So, do you think there is an atheist "mindset" that leads us to question authority figures, or am I the odd one out?

You fell for the ol' "guilt trip" ! Man ! Whoever told you that is a control freak, big time ! Sounds like my mom all the way !

[EdJones]

06-17-2003 @ 09:39 PM
Alien:



So, do you think there is an atheist "mindset" that leads us to question authority figures, or am I the odd one out?

No Its a human thing. We all want to be our own authority.

[The Creep]

Atheists remind me of dogs that are abandoned by their owners. Such abandoned dogs become full of a rabies of the spirit.

[EvoUK]

Quaint...

:ahem:

[The Creep]

Quaint is as quaint does.

[rach12]

Atheists remind me of dogs that are abandoned by their owners. Such abandoned dogs become full of a rabies of the spirit.
RUFF RUFF

:lol: And you a pagan...

[Alien]

Wow, that's amazing. I started this thread almost a year ago, and it seems that people have been intermittently adding to it ever since!

:huh:

[The Creep]

I have this dark feeling that these absurd fightings between theists and aheists are utterly useless.

[Alien]

I have this dark feeling that these absurd fightings between theists and aheists are utterly useless.

I think the protagonists enjoy themselves, which is no doubt why they do it.

If you mean that they don't accomplish anything useful, then I agree.

:smile:

[rach12]

I have this dark feeling that these absurd fightings between theists and aheists are utterly useless.
I agree, too. Then why did you feel the need to post what you did?:eh:

[The Creep]

Why did I feel the need to post what I did? Probably because I am just a hyper-sensitive jerk who is attempting (but failing) to be a disciple of Christ. Heck! All of us TWebbers got too much time on our hands. In an earlier age we would probably be burning each other at the stake merely to relieve bordom.
I remember, once, an atheist asking a Mormon the question "If I could prove to you that God does not exist would you become an atheist."
The Mormon promptly replied, "No."
Figures, don't it? We humans are a silly species. That is one reason why we have never been visited by aliens representing the Galactic Federation.

[rach12]

Why did I feel the need to post what I did? Probably because I am just a hyper-sensitive jerk who is attempting (but failing) to be a disciple of Christ. Heck! All of us TWebbers got too much time on our hands. In an earlier age we would probably be burning each other at the stake merely to relieve bordom.
Errr... okay.

We humans are a silly species. That is one reason why we have never been visited by aliens representing the Galactic Federation.
Rrrrrrriiiiiiiiight. I think I understand now. :yes: Thank you.

[The Creep]

You mock me but one night the aliens will come for YOU! You'll see! And when it happens I'll say "I told you so."

[rach12]

You mock me but one night the aliens will come for YOU! You'll see! And when it happens I'll say "I told you so."
Goody. Will I get to see other worlds? Really, I'm not mocking you. I just don't exactly understand you.

[The Creep]

Other worlds? No that is a mere scheme. The aliens only say that to try and get their victims to relax.
You don't understand me? It's The Creep Factor, I'm afraid. It happens everywhere I go.
Take care, The Creep

[zorathruster]

Alien:
I would guess you don't have as much trouble with authority as long as you are weilding it. The aggressive nature of humans and their desire for recognition and status is well articulated by Hegel. Atheists as well as all humans like recognition and power. When you have the power it is good, when others, the boss, the military... have the power it is demeaning and like the Pecking Order in the hen house, the bottom chicken catches it from everyone else.

[Sacrificial Ram]

The other day I was accused by a Christian friend of rejecting the idea of God because I am anti-authority. Whereas I don't think that is the basis for my atheism, I have to admit that it is true. I hated my parents telling me what to do, I hated my teachers telling me what to do, I would have hated military service, I hate my boss telling me what to do and I hate my wife telling me what to do.

And guess what, I would hate a god telling me what to do as well.

Oddly, while I hate arbitrary authority, I can be quite easily led, provided that the leader has my respect and explains the reasons for his request. Even then, I reserve the ultimate right to decide whether or not to follow.

So, do you think there is an atheist "mindset" that leads us to question authority figures, or am I the odd one out?
I don't think it is questioning AUTHORITY per say. I would say that it is more not accepting everything you are told without questioning, but rather looking at the evidence/story objectively.