If You are a Non-believer, why do you think people believe in God?

[FormerFundy]

This thread is for non- believers only, there is another thread for believers to tell why they believe in God.

A national survey was done some time ago and I will reveal those results in one week but I want to see what kind of responses we get here first.

Please categorize the following reasons for why you think people believe in God as:

Very Important Reason(s)

Mildly Important Reason(s)

Not Important Reason(s)


1. Because of an experience with God.

2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.

3. Because the Bible says there is a God.

4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.

5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.

6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.

[Peter Kirby]

Here are the reasons to which I think people attribute their belief in God.

Very Important Reason(s)
1. Because of an experience with God.

Mildly Important Reason(s)
2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.

Mildly Important Reason(s)
3. Because the Bible says there is a God.

Not Important Reason(s)
4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.

Very Important Reason(s)
5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.

Not Important Reason(s)
6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

Not Important Reason(s)
7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.

Here are the top three reasons/causes from the above list to which I attribute the belief in God:

A. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

B. Because of an experience with God.

C. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.

kind thoughts,
Peter Kirby

[EvoUK]

Very Important Reason(s)

2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life. (I have lost track of the amount of times people point out the so-called “meaninglessness of a life without their brabd of christianity)

6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God. (obviously the chance of you being born to muslim parents in a muslim country and still becoming christian is rediculously low. The True Religion depends upon where you happen to be born- I guess the christians on here are lucky they were born in a country which happened to be highly influenced by the One True Religion :ahem:)

7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown. (this goes with #2)


Mildly Important Reason(s)

4. Because people must have faith in something/someone. (obviously- some people do)

5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe. (I would put this under not important reasons- but this is an extention of #2, and most people don’t know the first thing about any of the theories/evidences about the universe)

Not Important Reason(s)

1. Because of an experience with God. (this is the result of belief in god to start with- so it’s not an important reason to believe- just an added extra once you have said belief)

3. Because the Bible says there is a God. (I don’t honestly think the bible converts anyone- it’s only read by a minority of believers once they have belief in the god of the bible)

[Superbug]

Very Important Reason(s)
1. Because of an experience with God.
2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.
7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.

Mildly Important Reason(s)
4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.
5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.

Not Important Reason(s)
3. Because the Bible says there is a God.
6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

[sandlewood]

One reason that I believe to be a very important one was not your list. Consider the interesting work of neurologist V.S. Ramachandran. Here are a couple of links:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/2812mind.html
http://www.science-spirit.org/article_detail.php?article_id=132

I think it not unlikely that god-belief is a side effect of the way the brain’s amygdala works. This organ helps to filter out what we see by providing emotional response. The pathways to the amygdala may be stronger or weaker, causing us to perceive more or less meaning in things.

Theists may be put off by this, but I’m not implying that a theist has brain damage. I’m saying that this is the normal way the brain works.

I think that may be the root of why people have a god belief. For the other reasons you list, I’d put them in these categories:


Very Important Reason(s)
2, 6, 1

Mildly Important Reason(s)
7

Not Important Reason(s)

3, 4, 5

[nadroj]

I generally dislike these polls. They're too vague, and in this case you're asked to speak for a whole group of people (theists) whose beliefs vary so widely that it would be silly to group them all together, and meaningless.

I will say that I think the "experience with God" bit is one that seems to be undeniably important. I think that, generally, theism is philosophically defensible once it is accepted, but I just don't see any reason to accept theism in the first place. An experience with God would provide the impetus to start believing in a God or gods; pure reason (used properly) could never do this, IMO.

[Ruth]

Lack of education is the biggest reason. The more education you have the less likely you'll believe in superstitions.

[Barry Desborough]

This thread is for non- believers only, there is another thread for believers to tell why they believe in God.


I don't think people believe in god for any conscious reasons, although people may try to rationalise them. I think belief may (and may still) serve an adaptive purpose, but given that, there is no reason why analytical faculties have to be involved.

[Minnesota]

In my opinion they all come down to:


[attachment]


2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.

[Conductor42]

Very Important Reason(s)

1. Because of an experience with God.

2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.

7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.

Note: I think the above 3 could all be categorized as the same thing.

Mildly Important Reason(s)

6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

Not Important Reason(s)

3. Because the Bible says there is a God.

Note: Replace "Bible" with Qu'ran, Book of Mormon, etc. when thinking of Non-Christian believers

4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.

5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.

[EvoUK]

I think it not unlikely that god-belief is a side effect of the way the brain’s amygdala works. This organ helps to filter out what we see by providing emotional response. The pathways to the amygdala may be stronger or weaker, causing us to perceive more or less meaning in things.

Well obviously god belief has to be the result of some neurological wiring, or it wouldn't exist to start with. I think it's utlimately an evolutionary quirk, and as such we'll never be truely rid of it- even though that thought in itself is quite depressing.

[EvoUK]

Good- I'd hate to be a conformist.

And you know what us non conformists hate more than conformists? Another non conformist who doestn't conform to the current state of non conformity!

That aside, I can't think of another outlook on life that doesn't beget the samel evel of utter ignorance of the world around as religion. I really can't. The closest I can think of are political regimes such as communism and the like. It's mind boggling.

[Jayrok]

I think most people believe in God because that just seems to be the thing to do. I would rank them like this:

6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.

2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.

4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.

I would add to the list the hope for the believer to live forever, and the prospect of being with family once again. Eternal life is more appealing than nonexistence (captain obvious).

[Rationalist]

I'd say atheism is a "quirk" seeing how most humans are theists. If anybody is abnormal, it's you guys. :wink:

I would agree. But think about this Darth.. atheism is the only universal belief system about God. No religion can say the same thing: belief in Christianity or Islam or the rest depends mostly on where you're born. But atheism is atheism no matter where you are.

[Rationalist]

This thread is for non- believers only, there is another thread for believers to tell why they believe in God.

A national survey was done some time ago and I will reveal those results in one week but I want to see what kind of responses we get here first.

Please categorize the following reasons for why you think people believe in God as:

Belief invariably follows this pattern:

Very Important

1a. My parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in X (God, shaman, prayer scrolls, etc.), and they are good people and I want to be part of that group (conversely people who don't believe are wrong/misguided/evil and I don't want to be part of that group).

or...

1b. There is something wrong/missing in my life. (I'm a drinker, boozer, womanizer, lonely etc. and my conscience is killing or my life needs a change... I want to feel a part of something, and right with the world).

then...

2. An experience with God.

then...

3. Belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life. (Conscience is relieved, gain a feeling of rightness with the world, and security).

Not Important

then somebody comes along and says it's all baloney...

Then the following retention mechanisms come into play:

4. But the Bible says there is a God.

5. But people must have faith in something/someone.

6. But God is the source of design, beauty and complexity of the universe.

7. But God eliminates death.

8. But you will be rewarded for believing.

9. But you will be punished for not believing.

10. But heaven on earth will soon arrive.

11. The armies of righteousness will triumph over all adversity and I am a valiant soldier.

12. But society will collapse if we stop.

etc.

[FormerFundy]

Very thoughtful answers. Keep it up. Perhaps we could do a poll on this question strictly for non-belivers. The questions may need refining. If you have ideas please PM me

[bongomaniac]

I'd say that

6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

is the most important reason, but I wouldn't expect that to top the poll.

[C. D. Ward]

I would almost exactly echo what Peter Kirby said...

[bandecoot]

This thread is for non- believers only, there is another thread for believers to tell why they believe in God.

A national survey was done some time ago and I will reveal those results in one week but I want to see what kind of responses we get here first.

Please categorize the following reasons for why you think people believe in God as:

Very Important Reason(s)

Mildly Important Reason(s)

Not Important Reason(s)


1. Because of an experience with God.

2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.

3. Because the Bible says there is a God.

4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.

5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.

6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.



I have to say I have no idea why they do, nor do I much care. I am perfectly happy to let people believe whatever they want as long as it results in no harm to them.


I noticed in the other thread that most people made a claim for #1, more power to them. I personally have had no such thing nor do I particularly seek one. I would be interested in see some evidence of their claims but they all seem rather subjective.

[MikeWC]

I think there are two basic catagories of reasons why people believe in God: reactive and identity-based. I think most people have a mix of both catagories, though one or the other usually predominates.

Reactive reasons basically involve reacting to one's enviroment. Being a Christian because your parents were, for example. I would also include intellectual reasons in this catagory; someone who believes because of TAG, for example. This is about filling a practical, social or intellectual need.

I would suggest that most ex-theists were theists for reactive reasons. Once theism stops filling one's needs, a reactive theist moves on to something else.

Some, however, are religious for psychological reasons. This isn't to say that some people are psychologically predisposed to being religious, but rather that their religion is intertwined with their psychology. It still fulfills a need, but it is a more fundamental need - it forms the basis of their identity, and can only be altered by some kind of unusual trauma. Very few identity theists ever change.

(As a sidenote, I think this second catagory - "identity based" - would be better described by the term "fundamental." But alas, that term has far too many attached connotations, so I want to avoid it.)

It is difficult to distinguish between reactive and identity theists simply by talking to them; because most identity theists will also sound exactly like a reactive theist - offering rational reasons for faith, etc. This is just a function of our reason-obsessed culture.

[First Ade]

I'd say atheism is a "quirk" seeing how most humans are theists. If anybody is abnormal, it's you guys. :wink:

Go back far enough and most humans - particularly Christian humans - believed the Earth was flat. So I guess anybody who thought it was round must have been abnormal, with a quirk.

OK dude, you sold it to me...I'm stayin' quirky.

First Ade

[Morton Gneiss]

Very Important Reason(s)
6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.


Mildly Important Reason(s)
7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.
2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.
1. Because of an experience with God. (however misattributed)

Not Important Reason(s)
3. Because the Bible says there is a God.
4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.
5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.

[Roy]

Please categorize the following reasons for why you think people believe in God as:

Very Important Reason(s)

Mildly Important Reason(s)

Not Important Reason(s)


1. Because of an experience with God.

Um, you want us to evaluate the importance of encountering something that doesn't exist?

If you mean 'supposed' experience, then it varies, depending upon what the believers consider to be such an experience, which ranges from intense personal emotion to finding a parking spot.

On the whole, I'd say Mildly to Not.


2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.

Very


3. Because the Bible says there is a God.

Not. This can't be the root cause, since it relies on the pre-existent belief that there was a god to write/inspire the bible.


4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.

Not


5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.

Not. Now, if you'd said unreasoned....


6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

Very


7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.

Mildly to Very. This is very similar to #2.

What do I win?

Roy

[Mark Little]

This thread is for non- believers only, there is another thread for believers to tell why they believe in God.

A national survey was done some time ago and I will reveal those results in one week but I want to see what kind of responses we get here first.

Please categorize the following reasons for why you think people believe in God as:

Very Important Reason(s)

Mildly Important Reason(s)

Not Important Reason(s)


1. Because of an experience with God.

2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.

3. Because the Bible says there is a God.

4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.

5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.

6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.Not being a believer, this is pure speculation. but I suspect the ranking from most to least important may be like this.

7, 2, 6, 4, 1, 3, 5.

Unlike some Christians who claim that they know what I believe, I really have no idea what their motivations actually are. I suspect 7 and 2 are the primary belief in supernaturalism in any form, but 6 would be the most important for determining the type of spiritual belief.

[Mark Little]

I'd say atheism is a "quirk" seeing how most humans are theists. If anybody is abnormal, it's you guys. :wink:Ever considered that most people, including theists, think you are wrong? It would seem that your retort can be applied to any belief system, including your own.:lol:

[thoric]

Because most people are ignorant of science and have been stubbornly brainwashed as a child to believe in this nonsense. They have a fear of death and like other childhood brainwashings(santa claus, easter bunny etc) we are thought to believe in a god. We'd be a better world if we learned to study facts of science and stop this foolish belief of a God. What God allows all this suffering in the world and who the hell made God? Enough of this. Morality starts with good parenting and not from the fictional book called the Bible written by jewish elders who'd had too much wine to drink which is filled with contradictions and silly stories. Please people wake up and accept science and learn to think for yourself and leave religion out of everyday living.
Very Important Reason(s)

2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life. (I have lost track of the amount of times people point out the so-called “meaninglessness of a life without their brabd of christianity)

6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God. (obviously the chance of you being born to muslim parents in a muslim country and still becoming christian is rediculously low. The True Religion depends upon where you happen to be born- I guess the christians on here are lucky they were born in a country which happened to be highly influenced by the One True Religion :ahem:)

7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown. (this goes with #2)


Mildly Important Reason(s)

4. Because people must have faith in something/someone. (obviously- some people do)

5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe. (I would put this under not important reasons- but this is an extention of #2, and most people don’t know the first thing about any of the theories/evidences about the universe)

Not Important Reason(s)

1. Because of an experience with God. (this is the result of belief in god to start with- so it’s not an important reason to believe- just an added extra once you have said belief)

3. Because the Bible says there is a God. (I don’t honestly think the bible converts anyone- it’s only read by a minority of believers once they have belief in the god of the bible)

[whayse1]

I couldn’t help but notice how high “an experience with God” has ranked in several people’s lists. I actually know very few theists who claim to have had personal experiences with God, other than a few Pentecostals, who claim to have been “touched by the spirit,” complete with speaking in tongues and the related experiences. Are you all including things like answered prayers in the list of experiences with God?

The number one reason would have to be “because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.” People born into Christian families tend to adopt those beliefs as their own, just as people who are born into Muslim or Hindu families tend to adopt the beliefs of their respective families.

[XaositectCrayon]

a personification of undescribable parts of the universe

[zorathruster]

Very thoughtful answers. Keep it up. Perhaps we could do a poll on this question strictly for non-belivers. The questions may need refining. If you have ideas please PM me

I think your poll excluded many pertinent reasons. After noting that there are believers in most human civilizations I would think that there is a survival benefit which believers accrued from it. I would postulate that hunter gatherers were fearful and combative with each other. Belief somehow supported cooperation between people who were in groups. Common language, common appearance, common beliefs all combined to decrease conflict and increase cohesion. Groups with common beliefs cooperated better and therefore survived better and procreated better.

[Popperite]

Very Important Reason(s)
1. Because of an experience with God.
5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.
Mildly Important Reason(s)
2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.
6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.
4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.
Not Important Reason(s)
3. Because the Bible says there is a God.
7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.

[The Plain Jane]

This thread is for non- believers only, there is another thread for believers to tell why they believe in God.

Really, where?

I wanna give me two cents :teeth:

[MysticSonic]

Very Important Reason(s)

General compliace with the social norms imposed upon them.
Desperate need for various answers pertaining to certain matters(what happens after one dies, for example.)
Mystical experiences(mystical "intuitions" that predispose them to being religious.)

Mildly Important Reason(s)

Religious experiences interpreted through the lens of the individual whom has mystical experiences.
Religious arguments used to further solidify the faith of already sworn-in Christian philosophers

Not Important Reason(s)
Can't really think of any reasons to believe in God that are somehow tertiary.

Note that these reasons are general and are my views upon why any religious individual believes in any religious deity or spiritual entity.

[Griggsy]

Very thoughtful answers. Keep it up. Perhaps we could do a poll on this question strictly for non-belivers. The questions may need refining. If you have ideas please PM me
Evouk, I missed your posts ! All this is so true . As far as giving comfort , I have a thread here about theists and rationality or theists and dread or some such , to show that our lives without a god are good if we so desire.

[freethinker]

Very Important Reason(s)
6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

Mildly Important Reason(s)
-

Not Important Reason(s)
1. Because of an experience with God.
2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.
3. Because the Bible says there is a God.
4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.
5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity
7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.


That's the reality verified by my own observations over many years. There may be exceptions but I have never observed one.


Prof. Oliver (I think) "Anybody indoctrinated in Christianity at a young age can never think normally again"

[deeyogini]

This thread is for non- believers only, there is another thread for believers to tell why they believe in God.

A national survey was done some time ago and I will reveal those results in one week but I want to see what kind of responses we get here first.

Please categorize the following reasons for why you think people believe in God as:

Very Important Reason(s)
1. Because of an experience with God.
5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.
7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown
Mildly Important Reason(s)
2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.
4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.
Not Important Reason(s)
3. Because the Bible says there is a God.
6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.

.

I answer the best way I knew how. I ranked them in how I have seen people give importance to these reasons.

[freethinker]

I forgot to add another factor: the neurotransmitter dopamine. This is a physiological factor and therefore different from factors based on psychology.
Dopamine is part of the brain reward system. It may be a factor in compulsive gambling. High dopamine levels cause a person to see in a random collection of dots patterns that are not there.
Religion may be nothing more than dopamine addiction with with the afflicted performing rituals to get their fix.

[Griggsy]

Many just have the feeling there just has to be something behind the cosmos. This seems to me to be key to understanding the reliigous. They want something more.It doesn't matter that the more is fatuous, just something. They feel that some force outside nature is responsible for nature.And Freethinker, mentions dopamine influencing their seeing the dots- pareidolia- seeing what is not there- anthropomorphism.This seem to be key any arguments for God also. It takes emotional laden arguments to get through to them; just science and philosophy won't do.

[zorathruster]

How would we describe the social network that happens when humans form various levels of social bond? The people are bound by a common precept which appears to direct their actions. This common precept need not be true or valid to have an actual effect on the actions of people. This tendency manifests itself in often weird acts to prove devotion to the group norms. An example is in the Amazon where the men build tall towers and tie vines to their ankles then jump off. The act proves they are devoted to the group and willing to endure fear and pain to be a part of the group. Likewise, other groups bond together by professing various devotions. At the most basic level is the marriage bond where a man and woman profess sexual exclusivity between each other. Some of these social obligations are practical, such as marriage ensuring the exclusive access to sexual activities and progeny. Some are fairly impractical such as inserting ever larger plates into a cut in the lower lip somewhat resembling a human duck. The whole concept though is to show dedication to the group morrays which combine both practical (to be beneficial) and impractical (to create devotion) activities and actions. I remember once going on a “clean up the beach” program where we marched along picking up trash. Earl and I rounded the corner and found about one dump truck load of garbage dumped behind a dune. We looked at each other and both realized there was no way to practically remove this much garbage without a dump truck size operation, which we really didn’t have. We quietly moved back to the beach where we continued to collect smaller trash articles. The “clean up the beach” was an activity where people with common purpose were trying to accomplish some form of good in their world. In reality their effect was limited because of the overwhelming problem that was present. But by having a common purpose, no matter how futile the effort, was what getting together and “ACTING” was all about. Group bonding, group effort, group consensus all reinforced the group cohesiveness and group dynamics. Even though it was in reality a futile gesture, the clean the beach effort was practical in it’s effect on bringing the people together for a common purpose, increasing group cohesion, and reinforcing the common goal of a clean beach. That is what religion does, it increases group cohesiveness. The precept is as ignorant as thinking 30 people with trash bags are going to clean up a beach where dump truck loads of garbage collect. Total futility. Religion brings people together to eat crackers, feel better about their circumstances, and try to act in a more civil manner toward their neighbor. Many people really need that type of communal exercise in their lives. (I must point out that many who weekly attend such exercises still lack the understanding and fail to adapt their lives to the concept)

So in my opinion, religion is a social creation designed to decrease social conflict and moderate the aggressive nature of humans. It is difficult to maintain animosity towards people you think have common (often invalid) precepts. Therefore, it is also important that religion have some form of outlandish, provably false doctrines that ensure the devotion of the followers to the group concepts. You know your neighbor is part of the group because despite all evidence to the contrary, he thinks humans are the result of special creation... he thinks prayer really works... he thinks there is a Santa Claus like being sitting in the clouds keeping track of who’s naughty and who’s nice, and when someone dies they actually go off to another dimension where they get a set of wings, sing and play the harp. Therefore, many in society conclude, “in that case I’ll put up with this guy because he hates who I hate and thinks like me”.

[neonmagek]

My views on the issue can not be really catagorized in a 3 level of importants format, so I listed them in order of importants for someone to be a Christian (not what they say or consider important).


6. Because my parents or most people in my cultural setting believe in God.
Most theists have theistic parents. First, they beleive in a god because they simply though it
"is just how things are" because they were raised to beleive it.

2. Because a belief in God is comforting, relieving and gives meaning to life.
After they already beleive they notice that beleif in a god can be conforting. It is a security blanket

1. Because of an experience with God.
When they start doubting that there is a god they have to make up an experience with god. He shows them "signs".
They are at this point, trying to justify to them selves
why they beleive it because they are starting to smell something fishy about the whole thing.

7. Because it eliminates the fear of death and the unknown.
While they start smelling something fishy the fear of death/unkown comes in. They based all of who they are and
why they are worth something on this god concept. In a since, it is as if someone is trying to kill them
(kill who they are) and they are afraid of what might come after that.

5. Because of reasoned arguments based on the design, beauty and complexity of the universe.
Once they are really desprate they are now getting arugements from others to look for some justification

4. Because people must have faith in something/someone.
This is the extra desprate atempt at salvaging faith

3. Because the Bible says there is a God.
Most Christian don't know their bible because, dispite what they say, they don't really care what it says (most of them anyway).

[neonmagek]

Many just have the feeling there just has to be something behind the cosmos. This seems to me to be key to understanding the reliigous. They want something more.It doesn't matter that the more is fatuous, just something. They feel that some force outside nature is responsible for nature.And Freethinker, mentions dopamine influencing their seeing the dots- pareidolia- seeing what is not there- anthropomorphism.This seem to be key any arguments for God also. It takes emotional laden arguments to get through to them; just science and philosophy won't do.
I agree with most of what you said. It does provide people with a sense of belonging and it is the doing that counts (for them). I disagree with it decreasing conflict. Part of being in the group (in many cases) is that others are excluded from it and you are better aka "special" for being in the group. It may decrease conflict between ones in the group, but it increases conflict between those inside and outside the group (in many cases). I think it is more about thinking one is special and having a sense of belonging then it is to decrease conflict. Some groups strive on creating conflict, ie terrorist organisations, the mormons (knock knock knock, hear about god lately?), the KKK .etc.

[neonmagek]

I agree with most of what you said. It does provide people with a sense of belonging and it is the doing that counts (for them). I disagree with it decreasing conflict. Part of being in the group (in many cases) is that others are excluded from it and you are better aka "special" for being in the group. It may decrease conflict between ones in the group, but it increases conflict between those inside and outside the group (in many cases). I think it is more about thinking one is special and having a sense of belonging then it is to decrease conflict. Some groups strive on creating conflict, ie terrorist organisations, the mormons (knock knock knock, hear about god lately?), the KKK .etc.
Sorry about that, I meant to reply to Zorathruster.

[neonmagek]

How would we describe the social network that happens when humans form various levels of social bond? The people are bound by a common precept which appears to direct their actions. This common precept need not be true or valid to have an actual effect on the actions of people. This tendency manifests itself in often weird acts to prove devotion to the group norms. An example is in the Amazon where the men build tall towers and tie vines to their ankles then jump off. The act proves they are devoted to the group and willing to endure fear and pain to be a part of the group. Likewise, other groups bond together by professing various devotions. At the most basic level is the marriage bond where a man and woman profess sexual exclusivity between each other. Some of these social obligations are practical, such as marriage ensuring the exclusive access to sexual activities and progeny. Some are fairly impractical such as inserting ever larger plates into a cut in the lower lip somewhat resembling a human duck. The whole concept though is to show dedication to the group morrays which combine both practical (to be beneficial) and impractical (to create devotion) activities and actions. I remember once going on a “clean up the beach” program where we marched along picking up trash. Earl and I rounded the corner and found about one dump truck load of garbage dumped behind a dune. We looked at each other and both realized there was no way to practically remove this much garbage without a dump truck size operation, which we really didn’t have. We quietly moved back to the beach where we continued to collect smaller trash articles. The “clean up the beach” was an activity where people with common purpose were trying to accomplish some form of good in their world. In reality their effect was limited because of the overwhelming problem that was present. But by having a common purpose, no matter how futile the effort, was what getting together and “ACTING” was all about. Group bonding, group effort, group consensus all reinforced the group cohesiveness and group dynamics. Even though it was in reality a futile gesture, the clean the beach effort was practical in it’s effect on bringing the people together for a common purpose, increasing group cohesion, and reinforcing the common goal of a clean beach. That is what religion does, it increases group cohesiveness. The precept is as ignorant as thinking 30 people with trash bags are going to clean up a beach where dump truck loads of garbage collect. Total futility. Religion brings people together to eat crackers, feel better about their circumstances, and try to act in a more civil manner toward their neighbor. Many people really need that type of communal exercise in their lives. (I must point out that many who weekly attend such exercises still lack the understanding and fail to adapt their lives to the concept)

So in my opinion, religion is a social creation designed to decrease social conflict and moderate the aggressive nature of humans. It is difficult to maintain animosity towards people you think have common (often invalid) precepts. Therefore, it is also important that religion have some form of outlandish, provably false doctrines that ensure the devotion of the followers to the group concepts. You know your neighbor is part of the group because despite all evidence to the contrary, he thinks humans are the result of special creation... he thinks prayer really works... he thinks there is a Santa Claus like being sitting in the clouds keeping track of who’s naughty and who’s nice, and when someone dies they actually go off to another dimension where they get a set of wings, sing and play the harp. Therefore, many in society conclude, “in that case I’ll put up with this guy because he hates who I hate and thinks like me”.
I agree with most of what you said. It does provide people with a sense of belonging and it is the doing that counts (for them). I disagree with it decreasing conflict. Part of being in the group (in many cases) is that others are excluded from it and you are better aka "special" for being in the group. It may decrease conflict between ones in the group, but it increases conflict between those inside and outside the group (in many cases). I think it is more about thinking one is special and having a sense of belonging then it is to decrease conflict. Some groups strive on creating conflict, ie terrorist organisations, the mormons (knock knock knock, hear about god lately?), the KKK .etc.