A Question on the Census of David

[FirstSunday33ad]

In Second Samuel we are given this account of the census of David:

Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."

10 David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, O LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing."

11 Before David got up the next morning, the word of the LORD had come to Gad the prophet, David's seer: 12 "Go and tell David, 'This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.' "

My question is; why if God wished to punish Israel and Judea for their unnamed transgression and incited David to carry out a census as a means of punishment, was David subsequently punished by God for the census?

Does it not seem that the verses are saying that any “bad” thing that happened to Judah/Israel was a punishment from God for a transgression and anyone who did a bad thing to J/I was being used by God as an instrument to administer this punishment – but that the mere fact that they COULD be used in such a way earned them punishment in turn?

Is this an example of using the wicked to destroy the evil?

Or was there another reason God used David in this way and then punished him?

[Nang]

In Second Samuel we are given this account of the census of David:

Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."

10 David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, O LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing."

11 Before David got up the next morning, the word of the LORD had come to Gad the prophet, David's seer: 12 "Go and tell David, 'This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.' "

My question is; why if God wished to punish Israel and Judea for their unnamed transgression and incited David to carry out a census as a means of punishment, was David subsequently punished by God for the census?

Does it not seem that the verses are saying that any “bad” thing that happened to Judah/Israel was a punishment from God for a transgression and anyone who did a bad thing to J/I was being used by God as an instrument to administer this punishment – but that the mere fact that they COULD be used in such a way earned them punishment in turn?

Is this an example of using the wicked to destroy the evil?

Or was there another reason God used David in this way and then punished him?

There are other Scriptures that fill in some of the details of this occurence, although I have to say, the reasons are not crystal clear to explain David's guilt and punishment. But it is clear that David was guilty of sin and that David was punished by God.


Scripture seems to imply that God moved David to conduct a census, but at the same time, Satan stood up against Israel and:

". . .Moved David to number Israel" I Chronicles 21:1

The result being, that David commissioned and afterwards accepted an inaccurate census from an unbelieving, resistent, and unfaithful person, named Joab, "who did not count Levi and Benjamin among them, for the king's (David) word was abominable to Joab. And God was displeased with this thing; therefore He struck Israel." I Chronicles 21:6&7


Further info from the Bible:

"David did not take the number of those twenty years old and under, because the Lord had said He would multiply Israel like the stars of the heavens. Joab the son of Zeruiah began a census, but he did not finish, for wrath came upon Israel because of this census; nor was the number recorded in the account of the chronicles of King David." I Chronicles 27:23&24

My (tenuous) conclusion is:

The fact of taking a census was routine and this was initiated by God, but David's choice of an unbelieving Joab (due to the influence of Satan) produced a corrupted count. And perhaps it a case of pride or insecurity on the part of David who was wickedly influenced to care more about the number of viable soldiers and armies on either side, rather than a congregational count of the people of God. ???

Or perhaps this is an example of not becoming unequally yoked with unbelievers???

I am open to others' thoughts on this subject, too.

Nang

[Thomas2003]

In Second Samuel we are given this account of the census of David:

Again the anger of the LORD burned against Israel, and he incited David against them, saying, "Go and take a census of Israel and Judah."

10 David was conscience-stricken after he had counted the fighting men, and he said to the LORD, "I have sinned greatly in what I have done. Now, O LORD, I beg you, take away the guilt of your servant. I have done a very foolish thing."

11 Before David got up the next morning, the word of the LORD had come to Gad the prophet, David's seer: 12 "Go and tell David, 'This is what the LORD says: I am giving you three options. Choose one of them for me to carry out against you.' "

My question is; why if God wished to punish Israel and Judea for their unnamed transgression and incited David to carry out a census as a means of punishment, was David subsequently punished by God for the census?

Does it not seem that the verses are saying that any “bad” thing that happened to Judah/Israel was a punishment from God for a transgression and anyone who did a bad thing to J/I was being used by God as an instrument to administer this punishment – but that the mere fact that they COULD be used in such a way earned them punishment in turn?

Is this an example of using the wicked to destroy the evil?

Or was there another reason God used David in this way and then punished him?

A census requires an atonement, David didn't do that.

[Nang]

A census requires an atonement, David didn't do that.

Could you please provide the Scripture that reveals a connection between census and atonement and thereby reveals such requirement . . .for the benefit of myself and others interested in the subject?

Nang

[Ken1Burton]

The Census does not seem wrong to us. But David started feeling guilty about it. Joab wanted nothing to do with it. There are three verse which might shed a little light on why David started feeling guilty:

(2CHRONICLES 1:9) Now, O Lord God, let thy promise unto David my
father be established: for thou hast made me king over a people
like the dust of the earth in multitude. (KJV)

(GENESIS 13:16) And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth:
so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy
seed also be numbered. (KJV)

(NUMBERS 23:10) Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of
the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous,
and let my last end be like his! (KJV)

David was trying to be the one who numbered the Dust of the Earth, or the Children of Israel. So saying “God moved David” or saying “Satan moved David.” is David reading what God had spoken through Moses in the book of Numbers. And it TEMPTED Him to try to be the Fulfillment of Numbers 23:10 (David can number the dust of Jacob, and number the fourth part of Israel) See the reason for GUILT?

It was not just David wanting to know how many there was, it was what David was doing it for.

Then God sends the Prophet and offers David Three choices:

(NUMBERS 23:10) Who can count the dust of Jacob, and the number of
the fourth part of Israel? Let me die the death of the righteous,
and let my last end be like his! (KJV)

(2SAMUEL 24:12) Go and say unto David, Thus saith the Lord, I offer
thee three things; choose thee one of them, that I may do it unto
thee. (KJV)
(2SAMUEL 24:13) So Gad came to David, and told him, and said unto
him, Shall seven years of famine come unto thee in thy land? or
wilt thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue
thee? or that there be three days' pestilence in thy land? now
advise, and see what answer I shall return to him that sent me. (KJV)

The answer to this part can not be given here. It is UNORTHODOX. There is no Sound Church Doctrine on this. The Church does not go too close to these verses. But this much I will say here.

These are no doubt Curses. When Jesus took the sin of the world, Who then does the curses because of sin belong to?

HINT:

(DEUTERONOMY 29:20) The Lord will not spare him, but then the anger
of the Lord and his jealousy shall smoke against that man, and all
the curses that are written in this book shall lie upon him, and
the Lord shall blot out his name from under heaven. (KJV)

A book, On the Cover is “Under Heaven”, As those people go into hell, their names are written there, They use a Quill to write with, dipped in Ink. After the Name is written, the Excess ink is Blotted out. A blotter is NOT an eraser.

God offered David three curses, Jesus got them all.

So allow me to Paraphrase what God said through the Prophet: David, You want to be the One who fulfills My Words? Here is a START.


Ken