The Council of Orange: Yes to Co-Operative Grace, No to Double Predestination.

[Kevin Wayne]

I had originally posted this ages ago when I 1st started here at T-Web. At that time not a lot of discussion was made. But since Aseity had put forth a quote from the Council of Orange in support of Calvinism, I decided to post the part that most Reformed ideologues ignore. The points raised therein deserve revisiting:
__________
The Cannons of the Council of Orange (http://www.creeds.net/ancient/orange.htm)


"According to the catholic faith we also believe that after grace has been received through baptism, all baptized persons have the ability and responsibility, if they desire to labor faithfully, to perform with the aid and cooperation of Christ what is of essential importance in regard to the salvation of their soul. We not only do not believe that any are foreordained to evil by the power of God, but even state with utter abhorrence that if there are those who want to believe so evil a thing, they are anathema. We also believe and confess to our benefit that in every good work it is not we who take the initiative and are then assisted through the mercy of God, but God himself first inspires in us both faith in him and love for him without any previous good works of our own that deserve reward, so that we may both faithfully seek the sacrament of baptism, and after baptism be able by his help to do what is pleasing to him. We must therefore most evidently believe that the praiseworthy faith of the thief whom the Lord called to his home in paradise, and of Cornelius the centurion, to whom the angel of the Lord was sent, and of Zacchaeus, who was worthy to receive the Lord himself, was not a natural endowment but a gift of God's kindness."
_____________


If I am to take seriously everything I read in the cannons of Orange I come up with 3 things:


1) All we have that is good is from God.

2) Double-predestination is heresy.

3) There is a place for co-operative grace.


So as far as I can see, believing that God is preeminent in Salvation does not eliminate two of my Arminian leanings: that God never foreordained anyone to evil and I am responsible to co-operate with the grace of God to continue in grace.



Thomas C. Oden, in "The Transforming Power of Grace" (p.120) notes:


"In answering semi-Pelagianism, Rome. . . largely took the Augustinian position, but carefully avoided commitment to the extreme aspects of Augustine, such as absolute double-predestination."




Therefore there to confuse things by calling Arminianism “Pelagianism” or “Semi-Pelagianism” is wrong ( and Oden does a great job defending this point at length in Ch. 6 of his book.) There is room for the Free Grace position of Wesley and Arminius that does not violate our dependence om God.


Thoughts on this?

[seer]

I had originally posted this ages ago when I 1st started here at T-Web. At that time not a lot of discussion was made. But since Aseity had put forth a quote from the Council of Orange in support of Calvinism, I decided to post the part that most Reformed ideologues ignore. The points raised therein deserve revisiting:
__________
The Cannons of the Council of Orange (http://www.creeds.net/ancient/orange.htm)


"According to the catholic faith we also believe that after grace has been received through baptism, all baptized persons have the ability and responsibility, if they desire to labor faithfully, to perform with the aid and cooperation of Christ what is of essential importance in regard to the salvation of their soul. We not only do not believe that any are foreordained to evil by the power of God, but even state with utter abhorrence that if there are those who want to believe so evil a thing, they are anathema. We also believe and confess to our benefit that in every good work it is not we who take the initiative and are then assisted through the mercy of God, but God himself first inspires in us both faith in him and love for him without any previous good works of our own that deserve reward, so that we may both faithfully seek the sacrament of baptism, and after baptism be able by his help to do what is pleasing to him. We must therefore most evidently believe that the praiseworthy faith of the thief whom the Lord called to his home in paradise, and of Cornelius the centurion, to whom the angel of the Lord was sent, and of Zacchaeus, who was worthy to receive the Lord himself, was not a natural endowment but a gift of God's kindness."
_____________


If I am to take seriously everything I read in the cannons of Orange I come up with 3 things:


1) All we have that is good is from God.

2) Double-predestination is heresy.

3) There is a place for co-operative grace.


So as far as I can see, believing that God is preeminent in Salvation does not eliminate two of my Arminian leanings: that God never foreordained anyone to evil and I am responsible to co-operate with the grace of God to continue in grace.



Thomas C. Oden, in "The Transforming Power of Grace" (p.120) notes:




Therefore there to confuse things by calling Arminianism “Pelagianism” or “Semi-Pelagianism” is wrong ( and Oden does a great job defending this point at length in Ch. 6 of his book.) There is room for the Free Grace position of Wesley and Arminius that does not violate our dependence om God.


Thoughts on this?

God point Kevin. Calvinists like to quote "Orange" as theirs. Which of course includes salvation through water baptizm.

[infide]

I had originally posted this ages ago when I 1st started here at T-Web. At that time not a lot of discussion was made. But since Aseity had put forth a quote from the Council of Orange in support of Calvinism, I decided to post the part that most Reformed ideologues ignore. The points raised therein deserve revisiting:
__________
The Cannons of the Council of Orange (http://www.creeds.net/ancient/orange.htm)


"According to the catholic faith we also believe that after grace has been received through baptism, all baptized persons have the ability and responsibility, if they desire to labor faithfully, to perform with the aid and cooperation of Christ what is of essential importance in regard to the salvation of their soul. We not only do not believe that any are foreordained to evil by the power of God, but even state with utter abhorrence that if there are those who want to believe so evil a thing, they are anathema. We also believe and confess to our benefit that in every good work it is not we who take the initiative and are then assisted through the mercy of God, but God himself first inspires in us both faith in him and love for him without any previous good works of our own that deserve reward, so that we may both faithfully seek the sacrament of baptism, and after baptism be able by his help to do what is pleasing to him. We must therefore most evidently believe that the praiseworthy faith of the thief whom the Lord called to his home in paradise, and of Cornelius the centurion, to whom the angel of the Lord was sent, and of Zacchaeus, who was worthy to receive the Lord himself, was not a natural endowment but a gift of God's kindness."
_____________


If I am to take seriously everything I read in the cannons of Orange I come up with 3 things:


1) All we have that is good is from God.

2) Double-predestination is heresy.

3) There is a place for co-operative grace.


So as far as I can see, believing that God is preeminent in Salvation does not eliminate two of my Arminian leanings: that God never foreordained anyone to evil and I am responsible to co-operate with the grace of God to continue in grace.



Thomas C. Oden, in "The Transforming Power of Grace" (p.120) notes:




Therefore there to confuse things by calling Arminianism “Pelagianism” or “Semi-Pelagianism” is wrong ( and Oden does a great job defending this point at length in Ch. 6 of his book.) There is room for the Free Grace position of Wesley and Arminius that does not violate our dependence om God.


Thoughts on this?

Thanks for that.

Of course. It is quite obvious to any student of Church History that creeds and writings and theologians come down often on the side of Arminianism in regards to certain points of doctrine, especially in the early and eastern Church.

The idea that a man like John Wesley could be called any kind of pelagian is laughable, and I'm glad that Oden points that out. The Arminian is just as committed to the idea that we need God at every point of our spiritual journey as the Calvinist is. Arminianism as I understand it believes that man is more human in this process. Acting human, responding or rejecting God's love and light.

And for all the creeds Calvinists like to quote they sure miss the fact that the doctrine of Calvinism is in general, heresy. (if we dont even consider the R.C. Church's views towards protestantism).

But yeah, Prevenient Grace and Synergistic Grace is nothing to be ashamed of or run from. A stream of truth throughout Church History acknowledged and continues to acknowledge the idea that God uses and considers human choices and responsibilities in His Divine Plan.

peace,
jd

[Kevin Wayne]

Thanks for that.

Of course. It is quite obvious to any student of Church History that creeds and writings and theologians come down often on the side of Arminianism in regards to certain points of doctrine, especially in the early and eastern Church.

The idea that a man like John Wesley could be called any kind of pelagian is laughable, and I'm glad that Oden points that out. The Arminian is just as committed to the idea that we need God at every point of our spiritual journey as the Calvinist is. Arminianism as I understand it believes that man is more human in this process. Acting human, responding or rejecting God's love and light.

And for all the creeds Calvinists like to quote they sure miss the fact that the doctrine of Calvinism is in general, heresy. (if we dont even consider the R.C. Church's views towards protestantism).

But yeah, Prevenient Grace and Synergistic Grace is nothing to be ashamed of or run from. A stream of truth throughout Church History acknowledged and continues to acknowledge the idea that God uses and considers human choices and responsibilities in His Divine Plan.

peace,
jd



Amen~!