Why do you believe Jesus is God or the Bible is His Word?

[Giver]

Why do you believe Jesus is God? Is it because of some people in the church, a friend, or maybe your parents? Why do you believe?

[smaller]

Why do you believe Jesus is God? Is it because of some people in the church, a friend, or maybe your parents? Why do you believe?

I have seen you pass by here, so my nod.

When I was a child I was intrigued by the stories in the Bible that were passed to me in various ways. Noah and the ark. Samson. David. Daniel. etc. I knew from these accounts that God had visited men.

When I was a young teenager I was moved to deep sadness by the violence and bloodlusting murder from the accounts of Jesus' death.

When I was in my late teens I remember sitting around drunk with a few friends and someone passed a little card around that said "where your heart lies, there is your treasure also" and I was disturbed at the then present condition of my heart, knowing that there was no treasure there for me in that condition.

When I was in my mid twenties I felt the love of God for myself, inside of me, in my heart and never looked back.

When I was in my forties, I came to know the Love of God for all of mankind as His Truth.

The existence of God and the validity of His Word is proved by the existence of a people He called out the Gentile nations to form a visible nation, Israel. That nation exists because of that calling of God, whether that nation be of land or of it's people or both. I am thankful for their lives and examples that were given through them and God's Ultimate Produce, His Begotten Son, from the nation of Israel.

I believe because I met His Living Word along the paths of my life.

A dear friend of mine who committed suicide a few years back could read lengthy novels. I knew from prior experience that a person cannot even read a few lines in the Bible without understanding from God. They become so quickly distracted it is not even funny. He asked me to give an account of my faith to him, and I asked him if he had ever read any of The Bible. He hadn't but declared that he had read the book "Hawaii" which is several hundred pages in length.

I gave him my Bible, paperclipped the 4 Gospels together, and asked him to read just those portions. After several weeks I asked him how his reading was going as I was missing my book. He said he just could not get through it. Every time he picked it up it was like a cloud would cover his mind and his thoughts became jumbled. He just could not understand it. He never was "able" to.

I did have an opportunity to pray with him for help in a time of personal need, and I believe that he received Jesus into his heart, but not from a position of knowledge which is a good thing. It is oftentimes when we are at the bottom that we get "His Hand" as a real deal.

Those forces that clouded that person eventually killed him after tormenting him mercilessly for nearly 40 years. I was glad to see him released from those tormentors and understood why he did it.

So what's your deal? Are you here to prophecy doom? It appeared that you wanted to say something along these lines when you first arrived.

enjoy!

smaller

[Giver]

I have seen you pass by here, so my nod.

When I was a child I was intrigued by the stories in the Bible that were passed to me in various ways. Noah and the ark. Samson. David. Daniel. etc. I knew from these accounts that God had visited men.

When I was a young teenager I was moved to deep sadness by the violence and bloodlusting murder from the accounts of Jesus' death.

When I was in my late teens I remember sitting around drunk with a few friends and someone passed a little card around that said "where your heart lies, there is your treasure also" and I was disturbed at the then present condition of my heart, knowing that there was no treasure there for me in that condition.

When I was in my mid twenties I felt the love of God for myself, inside of me, in my heart and never looked back.

When I was in my forties, I came to know the Love of God for all of mankind as His Truth.

The existence of God and the validity of His Word is proved by the existence of a people He called out the Gentile nations to form a visible nation, Israel. That nation exists because of that calling of God, whether that nation be of land or of it's people or both. I am thankful for their lives and examples that were given through them and God's Ultimate Produce, His Begotten Son, from the nation of Israel.

I believe because I met His Living Word along the paths of my life.

A dear friend of mine who committed suicide a few years back could read lengthy novels. I knew from prior experience that a person cannot even read a few lines in the Bible without understanding from God. They become so quickly distracted it is not even funny. He asked me to give an account of my faith to him, and I asked him if he had ever read any of The Bible. He hadn't but declared that he had read the book "Hawaii" which is several hundred pages in length.

I gave him my Bible, paperclipped the 4 Gospels together, and asked him to read just those portions. After several weeks I asked him how his reading was going as I was missing my book. He said he just could not get through it. Every time he picked it up it was like a cloud would cover his mind and his thoughts became jumbled. He just could not understand it. He never was "able" to.

I did have an opportunity to pray with him for help in a time of personal need, and I believe that he received Jesus into his heart, but not from a position of knowledge which is a good thing. It is oftentimes when we are at the bottom that we get "His Hand" as a real deal.

Those forces that clouded that person eventually killed him after tormenting him mercilessly for nearly 40 years. I was glad to see him released from those tormentors and understood why he did it.

So what's your deal? Are you here to prophecy doom? It appeared that you wanted to say something along these lines when you first arrived.

enjoy!

smaller
Just trying not to make people defensive, and maybe get people to do just what you have done, share their personal relationships with God. If people who really don’t believe, read different peoples relationships with Jesus, they may recognize where maybe that experience they had was God trying to get their attention.
Giver

[semmie'ssister]

Why do you believe Jesus is God? Is it because of some people in the church, a friend, or maybe your parents? Why do you believe?

My beliefs are rooted in the home I was raised in. I grew up in a home with a father who pastored. Altough I'm not real sure to what extent his pastoring was....he never went to seminary, and he never pastored his own curch. No, I take that back he did at one point, but there was only a handful of people that attended. But that's a whole 'nother story.

So I had a father who I beleived was following God's will, teaching people about and leading people to Christ. And then there was my Mom. I rememebr her teaching us in Sunday School, and also singing, just filled with joy. My Mom was instrumental in keeping God's presence in our home.

So I had parents that I believe influenced me and my decision to follow Christ. But the one thing in my life that I would have to say that keeps me beleiving is faith.

My faith I think comes from knowing He is always with me, and always providing for me needs. When I was sick as a child, maybe 3rd or 4th grade (it's really teh only memory I have between my 2nd and 5th grade years), but I was sick, really really sick....with the chicken pox.....and while I was lying there in my bed, I saw an angel standing in my doorway, and the next morning, I was out of bed and no longer sick.

And while this might not be enough for others to take that step of faith and beleive, I did. He has cared for me, protected me, provided everything I have ever needed. I have no reason not to beleive, and so I beleive Jesus is God and the Bible is the word becasue of faith.

[faithimsb]

Why do you believe Jesus is God? Is it because of some people in the church, a friend, or maybe your parents? Why do you believe?
because the bible say he is

[Berean Todd]

Because:

The Bible is a reliable collection of historical doccuments, written down by eyewitnesses, during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses, and which record for us supernatural events which take place in direct fulfillment of specific prophecy, and which claim to be divine rather than human in origin.

[Forrest]

Why do you believe Jesus is God? Is it because of some people in the church, a friend, or maybe your parents? Why do you believe?
Because I met Him!

I did not see His form, nor did I audibly hear His voice. But I had an experience where I know with certainty that I was in His presence. An experience that is something of a cross between Acts 2, Luke 24 and this verse...

Luke 3:16-17 (NIV) John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. {17} His winnowing fork is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

I had spent more than a year trying to 'fix my own life'. In a real way I lived Romans 7 where Paul says, "I agree God's law is good, but the good I desire to do, this I do not do. Instead the evil I hate, this I keep on doing. Who will save me from this body of death? Praise be to God for Christ Jesus". I was snared in compulsive behaviors and He came to set me free!

I realized an emptiness as well as the inability to set my life right. I knew my heart was not right within me. One night I was laying in my bed. I sensed a presence in the room, yet I couldn’t see anybody there. At first I had fear, then comfort, then an urge to pray. For the first time in my life I prayed a serious prayer. “Lord, my life is a mess and I’m the one messing it up. Please send somebody to help me.

Over the course of the next several weeks He sent witnesses across my path to plant seeds. One of the most important came in the form of a question.

A man asked me, “what makes you worthwhile as a human being”. Since I had long ago realized that any value I might have to posterity would quickly fade with time I could not come up with any sound answer. The man let me ponder this. I came back the next day and asked him what the answer was.

He said, “God loves you. To him your worthwhile”.

That was the first time I had ever heard that. All I’d ever heard out of religious people was about behaving good and not going to hell. I’d heard God is love. But I had never heard that to Him I was worthwhile!

A few weeks later God sent the man who would lead me to Him and pray with me. This is when I had the experience of meeting God. As this man opened the scriptures my heart burned within me.

Luke 24:32 (KJV) And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

I had the sensation of my blood boiling (Luke 3:16-17). And I saw what looked like fire descend upon me.

At the time that this happened (the fire descending) I sat up stiffly and suddenly as I thought I had somehow seen a vision of hell. I was frieghtned for a few minutes by what I'd seen, and very unsure about what I'd seen.

In fact a few days later after this had happened to me I began to question if it was from God or the devil! I was alone in a hotel room. I asked God to show me the truth. I opened the Bible sitting there (thank God for the Gideon’s) and I opened it and began to read. It happened to open to the passage where John says “He baptizes you with fire”. Then I turned a few pages and there I read Luke 23:32. Then I flipped a few more and there I was in Acts 2, the Day of Pentecost and read about the cloven tongues of fire.

God had done this…

Mark 16:20 (KJV) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

God had confirmed His word to me in a way that it is forever cemented.

I knew then I had met Jesus and that He is God. So I say with confidence...I know the Lord. And I am not in fear of this saying...

Mat 7:21 (NIV) "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Mat 7:23 (NIV) Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me , you evildoers!'

I am not in fear ...For I know the Lord

[GoBahnsen]

Because:

The Bible is a reliable collection of historical doccuments, written down by eyewitnesses, during the lifetime of other eyewitnesses, and which record for us supernatural events which take place in direct fulfillment of specific prophecy, and which claim to be divine rather than human in origin. Good. So much more can be said, huh? Volumes have been written.

But let me answer the OP this way. I believe Jesus is God, because He claimed to be and had the goods to back it up, topped off by His resurrection from the dead. And I believe the Bible, if for no other reason, than that there is no alternative that makes any sense.

Find a better book (set of books actually), that claims to be divine in origin, in this world. Find one with more wisdom. Find me a man like Jesus of Nazareth or one that even slightly resembles Him. No, I must follow Jesus and the Bible or be a fool. It's really that simple to me.

[Berean Todd]

Good. So much more can be said, huh? Volumes have been written.

Well, certainly more can be said, whole treatises could be written on the topic. But as for an answer to a direct question, specifically from a seeker or a non-believer, I find this to be the best, most succint, and complete answer as to why I believe in Scripture. Incidentally I can not take credit for it, it is the 'formula' (if you will) of Voddie Baucham, one of the most amazing evangelists and Bible teachers out there in my opinion, though probably none here have heard of him.

Back that statement up with exposition of 2 Peter 1:16-21 and 1 Cor 15 and you have a perfect statement for why to believe both Scripture, and in the Risen Savior.

[IncRus]

I am not in fear ...For I know the Lord

Forrest, does the Lord know YOU in return?

Listen to what Jesus said: "But you do NOT believe because you are NOT my sheep, as I said to you. My sheep HEAR my voice, and I KNOW THEM, and they FOLLOW me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand" (John 10:26-28).

In John 8:40, Jesus said he is a MAN! And in John 17:3, Jesus said that the Father is the ONLY true God. Do you HEAR Jesus' voice Forrest? Do you folllow him?

[IncRus]

I believe Jesus is God, because He claimed to be and had the goods to back it up, topped off by His resurrection from the dead. And I believe the Bible, if for no other reason, than that there is no alternative that makes any sense.

Find a better book (set of books actually), that claims to be divine in origin, in this world. Find one with more wisdom. Find me a man like Jesus of Nazareth or one that even slightly resembles Him. No, I must follow Jesus and the Bible or be a fool. It's really that simple to me.

GoBahnsen,

I hope you SINCERELY believe and FOLLOW Jesus and the Bible or be a FOOL because Jesus SAID he is a MAN (John 8:40) and declared the Father as the ONLY true God (John 17:3).

In view of these verses, Jesus is a MAN - NOT God. Otherwise, Jesus, the Son of God, would be a FALSE God.

[~JM~]

Why do I believe....

"First. It does not begin to take place in time, or at believing, but is antecedent to any act of faith."

http://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=354

Peace,

jm

[heisonly1]

because the bible say he is

The Bible doesn't say Jesus is God!

[Berean Todd]

The Bible doesn't say Jesus is God!

I'm so sorry that your Bible apparently was printed without including John 1 (among other spots) ... you might try exchanging it for a new one to help solve that problem ...

[/sarcasm]

[heisonly1]

I'm so sorry that your Bible apparently was printed without including John 1 (among other spots) ... you might try exchanging it for a new one to help solve that problem ...

[/sarcasm]

God's attribute - His Word - never was and never became a personal entity that possessed it's own self awareness and shared the same divine essence as God Almighty.

This would imply the existence of two self conscious eternal gods, IF Trinitarian christology/interpretation is what the author of John 1 was proclaiming regarding the nature of The Word.

[Berean Todd]

John 1:1 In the begining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD.

Well, that's pretty straitforward right there.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Yep, pretty straitforward there as well. But go ahead with your heretical views all you want ...

[heisonly1]

John 1:1 In the begining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word WAS GOD.

Well, that's pretty straitforward right there.

14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.

Yep, pretty straitforward there as well. But go ahead with your heretical views all you want ...

The only thing pretty straight forward in your reply is that you have transparently acknowledged the existence of two gods that each share the same divine essence and each possess their own self awareness, of which god the Word is subordinate to God Almighty.

From a Trinitarian perspective, the eternal attribute or aspect of God - His Word (Logos), (which was uttered by God to create the heavens,) was actually a personal entity that was distinct from God Almighty. From an ontological perspective, both God and His Word shared the same divine nature, however functionally; the eternal Word (Logos) of God was subordinate to God in authority. Trinitarianism suggests that God’s eternal attribute is not impersonal, rather The Word of God was a personal being that possessed its own self awareness.

That is, when the Word of God converses with God Almighty they address each other as “I”, “You” and ‘Us’, that indicates each ‘person’ possesses their own self-awareness as two distinct entities. The Word of God was a ‘He’ not an ‘IT’

The eternal Word of God, later became Jesus, the Man/god on earth approx 2000years ago. In other Words, Jesus pre-existed as the Eternal Word of God that subsisted with God from the beginning of time. (above was a very brief and inadequate summary of the Trinitarian theology)

From an Islamic perspective, The Word of God did not and never did possess It’s own self-awareness as an independent personal entity that existed alongside God at any time. This would be a breech of pure monotheism from an Islamic perspective.

The Word comprises part of the eternal nature of God in a manner that befits his majesty that is not anything like his creation. It is not a distinct entity that possess It’s own self awareness by which It converse with God. The Word of God is an impersonal attribute. The Word of God is an ‘IT’ not a ‘HE’ or ‘SHE’.

If God’s Command - His Word – is a personal entity that possesses it’s own self-consciousness and shares the same divine essence of God Almighty, then from an Islamic perspective, this translates as two gods that each possess their ownself awareness, converse with one another, which share the same eternal divine essence.

To adhere to this belief is heretical and polytheistic!

Islamically, these two personal entities are identified as gods, where as from a Trinitarian perspective, the terminology used to describe these two gods are ‘persons’

In the Quran it states:

3.45 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word (BE) from Him (God): his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God;

3.46 "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

3.47 She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!

3.48 "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,”

From a very simplified Islamic perspective, God’s creation of Jesus was like the creation of Adam, who had neither father nor mother. "The similitude of Jesus before God is that of Adam; He created him from dust then God uttered his command and said 'BE', and he (Jesus) was." (3:59)

Jesus was created by The Word (BE), he was not The eternal Word of God.

3.47 She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
Your Trinitarian Chistological interpretation of John 1 is reflection of your misdguidance and error. May the sustainer of the heavens and earth guide your heart to accept the truth that Jesus was created by The Word (BE), he was NOT The eternal Word of God.

[RanRan]

The Bible doesn't say Jesus is God!"And God said, 'Let us make man, in our image, in our likeness.' Plural.

[GoBahnsen]

GoBahnsen,

I hope you SINCERELY believe and FOLLOW Jesus and the Bible or be a FOOL because Jesus SAID he is a MAN (John 8:40) and declared the Father as the ONLY true God (John 17:3).

In view of these verses, Jesus is a MAN - NOT God. Otherwise, Jesus, the Son of God, would be a FALSE God.Oh I see, this thread won't just be a place to posit one's reason for believing Jesus is God, but also for one to challenge that doctrine.

The Jews of Jesus day were not as dull as those today, who do not read Jesus claims to deity for Himself. They accused Him of "continually making Himself to be God..."

Jesus was very direct at one point, telling them that if they did not believe that He was the "I AM", they would die in their sins.

You, my friend, will have a very rude awakening one day, if you do not recognize that Jesus is God of very God. And you cannot take away any of His humanity either. He is both. He has to be both, in order to accomplish the work that He did.

I'm sure you'll challenge this, but you will lose one day. You will lose big. I would bet my life and all I own on it, without batting an eye with the slightest of hesitation. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but this one thing I know...Jesus is the God man.

[heisonly1]

"And God said, 'Let us make man, in our image, in our likeness.' Plural.

Where in Genesis 1:26 does it state that Jesus is God?

Can't wait to see the typical miscontrued Trinitarian interpretation of Genesis 1:26. This will be entertaining :badger:

[heisonly1]

Oh I see, this thread won't just be a place to posit one's reason for believing Jesus is God, but also for one to challenge that doctrine.

The Jews of Jesus day were not as dull as those today, who do not read Jesus claims to deity for Himself. They accused Him of "continually making Himself to be God..."

Jesus was very direct at one point, telling them that if they did not believe that He was the "I AM", they would die in their sins.

You, my friend, will have a very rude awakening one day, if you do not recognize that Jesus is God of very God. And you cannot take away any of His humanity either. He is both. He has to be both, in order to accomplish the work that He did.

I'm sure you'll challenge this, but you will lose one day. You will lose big. I would bet my life and all I own on it, without batting an eye with the slightest of hesitation. I may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but this one thing I know...Jesus is the God man.



As the Lord of the Worlds is a witness, if you depart from this world believing that "Jesus is the God man" it is YOU who will experience a very rude awakening one day.

Learn the truth about Jesus.

Jesus was created by The Word (BE), he was not The eternal Word of God.

3.47 She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!






171. O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion: Nor say of God except but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word (Be), which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His Messengers. Say not "Three" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.

172. The Messiah does by no means disdain that he should be a servant of God, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoever disdains His service and is proud, He will gather them all together to Himself. 173. But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, He will give their (due) rewards,- and more, out of His bounty: But those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish with a grievous penalty; Nor will they find, besides God, any to protect or help them.

[ForHimAlone]

Where in Genesis 1:26 does it state that Jesus is God?

Can't wait to see the typical miscontrued Trinitarian interpretation of Genesis 1:26. This will be entertaining :badger:

Ranran:

May I offer a response to your inquiry?

The text you cite is one, but not isolated, of many which declare the triune nature of the eternal Godhead.

The text you reference includes the word us. "Let us make man," &c.

If we are going to establish a doctrine, may it be far from us to do so by isolation of one verse! We need to examine what the whole of Scripture declares, before we may make confident proclamations about doctrine. Especially is this the case with respect to the doctrine of God.

The Hebrew's author cites the Psalms "Unto which of the angels said he at any time, "Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee", or again, "I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a son". But unto the Son he saith, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, &c.

The word of God and God the Father have eternal distinction but they are of the same essence or substance. The Trinity may be found taught in very many places of the Scripture.

God did not counsel with the angels in the creation of Adam. God needed counsel from no, other, created being.

Take, for example, the passage of Jesus' baptism. Here, we find the Trinity clearly present. The eternal, now incarnate Son, is spoken of by the Father, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." The Holy Spirit descended in the form of a dove and lighted on Jesus.

Scripture declares that the Father raised up Christ; that the Spirit raised up Christ; and that Christ raised up himself.

Embark upon a close study of First John. Who is antichrist but he that denies the Father and the Son? John asks. The Father and Son imply the Spirit. Jesus is said to breathe on the apostles, saying unto them, "Receive ye the Holy Spirit."

The Godhead is one what and three who. God is not an isolated oneness but is revealed to man as a Triunity of Persons with one nature or essence.

Jesus said of himself that the Father had given to his hands to conduct the final judgment of all men (John 5) and that all men would come forth from their graves at the clarion call of his voice (John 5.28-29). At the voice of the Son of Man would all the graves give up their dead, to stand before the Son of Man.

God came into our very nature in order to redeem us from death, from separation from his holiness and to restore the broken relationship with God lost through the Fall.

The Bible alone is God's record of his faithfulness to keep his word of promise to a thousand generations. He has proven himself faithful by giving his only Son according to the time he promised (Daniel 9.25-27). This is all the reason why the baptist proclaimed him the lamb of God to take away the sins of the world.

That Jesus is God is the teaching of the earliest church; it was not an add-on that happened later. Archeological proof of this is seen in the recently discovered mosaic tile floor underneath the Megiddo prison in Israel. It was dedicated "to the God Jesus Christ"

As Adam was the universal head and Son of God, Jesus is, but in a greater and more glorious manner, because he that made all things is God.

How wonderfully fitting and mysterious is it that God who created man in his image should become man- walk in our very nature - to redeem us from our sins! What a marvelous work of grace to take on our nature, that he might experience what it was to be man, and then to substitute himself in our place and room, that we might have access again to the throne of his mercy!

God would not give his glory to another, nor his praise to graven images. If Jesus be not God manifested in the flesh (I Tim. 3.16) then does Christianity worship an idol. But if he be very God of very God, as the creed rightly declares, we owe him all glory and honor. God is well pleased to be glorified in his Son; he that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him. It pleased the Father that in the Son should all fulness dwell. For all the fulness of the Deity dwelleth in the Son in bodily form.

Who but God can read our thoughts, forgive our trespasses and sins, cleanse and make us whole with but a thought, a word or a touch; who but God could conquer death, hell and the grave by his mighty power, make the waves his stepping stones, feed the multitudes with the barest of provision, open the eyes of one born blind, heal the leper, and raise the dead?

To say he was a man sent from God maketh thee not far from the kingdom of heaven - even Nicodemus was willing to go that far. But to recognize him as the one to whom Abraham our father rejoiced to see his day, and saw it and was glad...ah, that is far closer! Before Abraham was, he is! This spake Jesus of himself, and not of the Father, even though this applies equally to the Father.

The Master said, Ye believe in God, believe also in me (John14) in my Father's house are many mansions.. I go to preparea place for you...and I will come again and receive youto myself, that where I am there ye may be also.

He that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in MY throne, even as I overcame and am set down with my Father in his throne. (Rev. 3.21).

Who is he that overcometh the world but he that believeth Jesus is the Son of God (God the Son) I John 5.5 - See context!!

The resurrection of Jesus Christ is the linchpin of the faith (I Cor. 15.12-20) is the assurance we have that God was in Christ reconciling the world to himself - II Cor. 5.19

Jesus made what we did with him the answer to life eternal, and declared that anyone trying to climb up to heaven any, other way, the same is a thief and a robber. He is the door of the sheepfold; he is the way, truth and life, no man comes to the Father but by him.

No, other man ever spake like this man. No, other religious leader ever made the kinds of direct pronoucements of himself as deity. Mohammad said I am a prophet only...Confucious said not to ask him about the world to come; Buddha said "my life means nothing." Jesus said his life was worth the price of the world! Jesus said a greater than all the prophets was he...by implication using Jonah as the example of a prophet who converted but one city, while Jesus has by the Spirit and his work renewed the hearts and minds of countless millions.

Jesus is, as David said of Goliath's sword, "There is none like it".

The Bible is God's love-letter to sinful men, that they might turn from their wicked hearts of unbelief and trust in the name of the living God - Jesus, whose name means "Jehovah is salvation" came in the very likeness of sinful flesh and was in his holy Person the blessed second Person of the Holy Trinity.

Let us rejoice and be glad in the God of our salvation, who has given us the atonement, and the assurance of God's forgiveness and love, which is only found through faith in the precious, redeeming work of his Messiah, our Lord Jesus Christ, who forever lives to make intercession for God's people as a faithful high priest, prophet and eternal King of Kings!

[Forrest]

Forrest, does the Lord know YOU in return?

Listen to what Jesus said: "But you do NOT believe because you are NOT my sheep, as I said to you. My sheep HEAR my voice, and I KNOW THEM, and they FOLLOW me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall NEVER perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of my hand" (John 10:26-28).

In John 8:40, Jesus said he is a MAN! And in John 17:3, Jesus said that the Father is the ONLY true God. Do you HEAR Jesus' voice Forrest? Do you folllow him?

I know the Lord and the Lord knows me.

After reading a few of your posts I see you want to be like the Pharisees concerning the divinity of Jesus the anointed one.

That’s fine. You can reason what you wish. But I tell you the truth sir, I am like this man….

John 9:25 (NIV) He replied, "Whether he is a sinner or not, I don't know. One thing I do know. I was blind but now I see!"

You can divide Jesus out, you can deny the Trinity, do whatever you wish…that’s not my problem. I’ve met Him. And know exactly what He meant when people asked Him what they must do to be saved… “believe in the one whom God sent, come and follow me”.

As I said, I’ve met Him. Take your theological position to somebody who cares about it. For I also am like this…

John 3:11 (NIV) I tell you the truth, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.

I know what I know, I don’t have to rationalize the scriptures.

[RanRan]

Where in Genesis 1:26 does it state that Jesus is God?

Can't wait to see the typical miscontrued Trinitarian interpretation of Genesis 1:26. This will be entertaining Begotten and not made. God did not say, 'Come let me make my only Son.' Christ spoke about the Holy Spirit as a person, so to say that Christians are wrong about the Trinity is to say that Christ was wrong about the Holy Spirit. Well, not just wrong but kinda crazy. God have mercy on you and all the other dogs who dishonor Christ, the Lord of the universe.

He redeemed you as only the God/Man could. You owe Him. He is your Lord and your God.

[Zguy28]

"Why do you believe Jesus is God?"

He said so and He came back from the dead. We know this because His disciples recorded it, taught it, and were willing to continue teaching it even unto the point of tortuous forms of execution such as boiling in oil or crucifixion.

"Why do you believe the Bible is His Word?"

The Bible has author-ity. The author-ity is in the author, which is God. Since I already believe in Jesus as God from question number one, its not hard to believe the Bible. After all Jesus believed Scripture was divinely inspired. You may say, ok that covers the Old Testament, but what about the New Testament, it wasn't written when Jesus was on earth? That is true, yet Jesus chose His Apostles and gave them Authority and they wrote the New Testament, either directly (Matthew, John, Peter, or Paul etc.) or, for lack of a better description, through intimate proxy which includes Luke (Paul's confidant) and Mark (dictating the Gospel for Peter).
On top of that, Scripture is one of three types of Special Revelation that can lead to salvation.

[heisonly1]

ForHimAlone, I’ll only respond to parts of your post that I think is most relevant to topic regarding the Trinity and the apparent divinity of Jesus.
“The Hebrew's author cites the Psalms "Unto which of the angels said he at any time, "Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee", or again, "I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a son". But unto the Son he saith, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, &c.”

Any study of the words for “God” in both Hebrew and Greek will show that they were applied to people as well as to The God. This is strange to English-speaking people because we use “God” in reference only to the true God, but both Hebrew and Greek used “God” of God, great men, other gods, angels and divine beings. It is the context that determines whether “God” or a great person is being referred to. This is actually a cause of occasional disagreement between translators, and they sometimes argue about whether “GOD” refers to God, the Father, or to a powerful person or representative of God. One example of this occurs in Exodus 21:6, which instructs a master whose servant wishes to serve him for life to bring the servant “to Elohim.” The KJV, the NIV and many others believe that the owner of the servant is supposed to bring the servant before the local authorities, and so they translate Elohim as “judges” (see also Ex. 22:8-9 for more examples). Other translators felt that the master was required to bring the servant to God, so they translated Elohim as “God”(e.g., NRSV). Thus, the verse will read, “God” or “judges,” depending on the translation.

For example, in 2 Corinthians 4:4, the word “theos” has the definite article, but the verse is referring to the Devil.

Context is always the final judge of whether theos should be translated “God” or “god.”

Hebrews 1:8 is like other verses in that just because the word “theos” (“GOD”) is used does not mean that it refers to the Father. It could easily be referring to “god” in the biblical sense that great men are called “god.” The Septuagint uses the word theos for God, but also for men in places like Psalm 82 where men represent God. The context must be the determining factor in deciding what “GOD” refers to. In this case, in Hebrews that we are studying, the context is clear. Throughout the entire context from Hebrews 1:1, Christ is seen to be lesser than God the Father. Therefore, the use of “theos” here should be translated “god.”

The context must determine whether Christ is being referred to as the Supreme Being or just a man with great authority, so it must be read carefully. In this case, however, one need not read far to find that Christ, called “God,” himself has a “God.” The very next verse, Hebrews 1:9, says, “therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions.” Thus, Christ cannot be the supreme God, because the supreme God does not have a God. Furthermore, Christ’s God “set” him above others and “anointed” him. This makes it abundantly clear that the use of theos here in Hebrews is not referring to Christ being the supreme God, but rather a man with great authority under another God.

Andrews Norton writes:

Here the context proves that the word “God” does not denote the Supreme Being, but is used in an inferior sense. This is admitted by some of the most respectable Trinitarian critics. Thus, the Rev. Dr. Mayer remarks: “Here the Son is addressed by the title God: but the context shows that it is an official title which designates him as a king: he has a kingdom, a throne and a scepter; and in verse 9 he is compared with other kings, who are called his fellows; but God can have no fellows. As the Son, therefore, he is classed with the kings of the earth, and his superiority over them consists in this, that he is anointed with the oil of gladness above them; inasmuch as their thrones are temporary, but his shall be everlasting.”

The verse is a quotation from Psalm 45:6,7. The Jews read this verse for centuries and, knowing the flexibility of the word “God,” never concluded that the Messiah would somehow be part of a Triune God as you profess ForHimAlone.

You must note that the verse in the Greek text can also be translated as, “Thy throne is God.” However, because the verse is a reference from the Old Testament, and because we believe that God, the Father, is calling His Christ a “god” (i.e., one with divine authority), there is no need to translate the verse other than, “Thy throne, O god, is forever.”

"The word of God and God the Father have eternal distinction but they are of the same essence or substance. The Trinity may be found taught in very many places of the Scripture.”
According to Trinitarianism, ‘The word of God’ is a self- conscious personal entity that converses with ‘ God the father’ that also possesses his own self awareness, which share the same eternal ‘essence or substance’. This translates as two personal self conscious gods that share the same divine nature, not One God in two or three persons.

“God did not counsel with the angels in the creation of Adam. God needed counsel from no, other, created being.”

Other Trinitarians disagree with you for substantiated reasons. A great number of Trinitarian Christian scholars have long abandoned the notion that Genesis 1:26 implies a plurality of persons in the godhead. For example, the evangelical Christian author Gordon J. Wenham, who authored a widely respected two-volume commentary on the Book of Genesis, writes on this verse,

“Christians have traditionally seen [Genesis 1:26] as adumbrating [foreshadowing] the Trinity. It is now universally admitted that this was not what the plural meant to the original author.”

The NIV Study Bible also writes in its commentary on Genesis 1:26,

Us . . . Our . . . Our. God speaks as the Creator-king, announcing His crowning work to the members of His heavenly court. (see 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; I Kings 22:19-23; Job 15:8; Jeremiah 23:18)

Hint: A manager plans to give a presentation about the future strategies of the business, says to his work colleagues, “we need to switch on the lights so that we can begin our presentation” Yet only one person (the manager) presses the light switch on and gives the presentation.

When we analyze the verbs used to describe acts of creation in Genesis they are singular in form indicating The Creator (God Almighty, not Jesus) in reality is singular.

If you want to debate the interpretation of Genesis 1:26, I suggest you open a thread in the ‘Judaism’ section of this forum. They’ ll teach you a lesson or two about how to understand the true interpretation of Genesis 1:26.

”Take, for example, the passage of Jesus' baptism. Here, we find the Trinity clearly present. The eternal, now incarnate Son, is spoken of by the Father, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." The Holy Spirit descended in the form of a dove and lighted on Jesus”.

The Baptism scene does not demonstrate support for the doctrine of the Trinity!

What it does illustrate is that each god of the trinity has specific delegated responsibilities that collectively operate in unison to ensure the salvation of Man.

”The Godhead is one what and three who. God is not an isolated oneness but is revealed to man as a Triunity of Persons with one nature or essence.”

In English translation, what you actually profess is that The Godhead is one essence and three gods. In other words, One essence that dwells in three gods that you identify as ‘persons’ that operate collectively in unison to ensure the salvation of man.

Trinitarianism is not what the prophets of God taught their nations.
Supplicate to The Sustainer of the heavens and earth and ask Him to show you the truth about the real identity of Jesus Christ.

“171. O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion: Nor say of God except but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word (Be), which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His Messengers. Say not "Three" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.

172. The Messiah does by no means disdain that he should be a servant of God, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoever disdains His service and is proud, He will gather them all together to Himself. 173. But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, He will give their (due) rewards,- and more, out of His bounty: But those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish with a grievous penalty; Nor will they find, besides God, any to protect or help them.”

[heisonly1]

Begotten and not made. God did not say, 'Come let me make my only Son.' Christ spoke about the Holy Spirit as a person, so to say that Christians are wrong about the Trinity is to say that Christ was wrong about the Holy Spirit. Well, not just wrong but kinda crazy. God have mercy on you and all the other dogs who dishonor Christ, the Lord of the universe.

He redeemed you as only the God/Man could. You owe Him. He is your Lord and your God.

Jesus never preached the Trinity doctrine you profess.

He taught the singular oneness of God as a singular personal entity, Not multi - personal.

The word echad - ONE - in the Hebrew language functions in precisely the same manner as the word "one" does in the English language.
In the English language it can be said, "these four chairs and the table constitute one dinette set," or alternatively, "There is one penny in my hand."
Using these two examples, it is easy to see how the English word "one" can mean either many things in one, as in the case of the dinette set, or one alone, as in the case of the penny.

Although the Hebrew word echad functions in the exact same manner, Trinitarians Christians will usually not offer biblical examples where the word echad means "one alone."

Thus, by only presenting scriptural verses such as Genesis 1:5 and Numbers 23:13, it creates the illusion so that the word echad is somehow synonymous with a compound unity. Nothing, of course, could be further from the truth.

For example, Deuteronomy 17:6 reads,

At the mouth of two witnesses, or three witnesses, shall he that is worthy of death be put to death; but at the mouth of one (echad) witness he shall not be put to death.

or Ecclesiastes 4:8 reads,

There is one (echad) alone, without a companion; yes he has neither son . . . .

In the above two verses the exact same Hebrew word is used, and clearly the word echad is referring to one alone, not a compound unity.

The question that immediately comes to mind is: If the Hebrew word echad can signify either a compound unity or one alone, how can one tell which definition is operative when studying a verse?

The answer is: In the exact same way the word "one" is understood in the English language, that is, from the context.


In Mark 12:28, Echad - ONE - contextually is singular one not compound one as some Trinitarians erroneously insinuate.

“28 And one of the scribes came, and having heard them reasoning together, and perceiving that he had answered them well, asked him, Which is the first commandment of all?

29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.

31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

33 And to love him with all the heart, and with all the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbour as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.

34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that durst ask him any question."

[Forrest]

Jesus never preached the Trinity doctrine you profess.

He taught the singular oneness of God as a singular personal entity, Not multi - personal.

snip

."

And your doctrine produces what freedom?

[RanRan]

Jesus never preached the Trinity doctrine you profess.

The Apostolic church fathers baptized by Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - they were taught by the Apostles and hunted down by people like you, who killed them. Saul became Paul - when are you going to change your mind?

[Krusader]

We believe that Jesus is God because He overcame death, arose from the dead, and we can believe everything He has taught us - including the veracity of God's Word.

[JusticeMachine]

Why do I believe....

"First. It does not begin to take place in time, or at believing, but is antecedent to any act of faith."

http://www.pristinegrace.org/media.php?id=354

Peace,

jm
Why do you think GOD predestined you?

[heisonly1]

And your doctrine produces what freedom?

My doctrine produces freedom from polytheism.

Freedom from adhering to the false proclamation that the Word of God, erroneously assuming (becoming) the form and characteristics of a divine being like himself, and taking position as a secondary God and second member of the Trinity then infused his divine essence into a human body to became a man.

There is no difference whether the essence or literal presence of God is claimed to dwell in a rock, animal or a human being. This is idolatry and a form of polytheism.

"A party of the followers of the Book desire that they should lead you astray, and they lead not astray but themselves, and they do not perceive."


"O People of the Book! Why do you confound the truth with the falsehood and hide the truth while you know?"

Say: "O People of the Book! come to common terms as between us and you: That we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with him; that we erect not, from among ourselves, Lords and patrons other than God." If then they turn back, say ye: "Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims" (bowing to God's Will).

[Forrest]

My doctrine produces freedom from polytheism.


Freedom from polytheism...hmm didn't know I was a slave to polytheism.

I have no problem reconciling the Trinity as one God.

Maybe you should try thinking multi-dimensional.

Lets say the world was just two dimensions, but God is three dimensional.

Lets also say God touched the world with his finger tip. How would that three dimensional finger manifest in a two dimensional world? Why all we'd see is a circle.

So your view is that circle is not God?

See my view is Jesus is just one manifestation of God. The Holy Spirit is another, and He manifests Himself in various ways. we know He manifested Himself as a Pillar of smoke by day and a flame by night. We also know God has manifested Himself as a burning bush. Should I go on or do you need more manifestations to get the point?

Your thinking in a narrow mindset, that God can not manifest Himself in multiple ways.

Your doctrine doesn't free anybody from polytheism, no it enslaves one into a thinking that limits how God can manifest Himself.

Are you saying God could not take human form? Is that impossible for Him to do?

[Mr. Christopher]

Why do you believe Jesus is God? Is it because of some people in the church, a friend, or maybe your parents? Why do you believe?


Catholics believe Jesus is the son of God, and part of the Holy Trinity. I am a believer because my parents baptised me when I was a baby, and I have found that if you believe in God, life is better, more full, and complete. Those who are opposed to him go around mad all day, trying to get those who do believe to all of a sudden not believe.

[RanRan]

My doctrine produces freedom from polytheism.
No, it produces people who go out and kill bystanders in the name of Allah. i.e. It produces a brand of religious cowards that bring nothing but suffering and death to the world. Christianity brings hope through the Gospel. Even that you want to kill. You're a dog eating crumbs and calling yourself a follower of the Lord of the Universe. You're not!

[heisonly1]

No, it produces people who go out and kill bystanders in the name of Allah. i.e. It produces a brand of religious cowards that bring nothing but suffering and death to the world. Christianity brings hope through the Gospel. Even that you want to kill. You're a dog eating crumbs and calling yourself a follower of the Lord of the Universe. You're not!

Christian crusader soldiers all over the world are killing, raping and mutilating innocent Muslims in the name of Christ every minute. It is the Christian crusader soldiers that bring death and destruction to the Islamic world.



Christianity invites people to misguidance and polytheism that lead the people to the hell fire, except for those that repent and embrace the truth about Jesus as proclaimed in the Quran.



"Say (O Muslims): we believe in God and that which is revealed to us and that which was revealed to Abraham and Ishmael, and Isaac and Jacob, and their children, and that which Moses and Jesus received and that the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them and unto Him we have surrendered." (2:136)

We await the day that Jesus (peace be upon him) will return again as a just ruler to bring peace to the world and bear witness against the falsehood that Christianity has attributed to him.

[ForHimAlone]

ForHimAlone, I’ll only respond to parts of your post that I think is most relevant to topic regarding the Trinity and the apparent divinity of Jesus.
“The Hebrew's author cites the Psalms "Unto which of the angels said he at any time, "Thou art my son, this day have I begotten thee", or again, "I will be to him a Father and he shall be to me a son". But unto the Son he saith, "Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever, &c.”

Any study of the words for “God” in both Hebrew and Greek will show that they were applied to people as well as to The God. This is strange to English-speaking people because we use “God” in reference only to the true God, but both Hebrew and Greek used “God” of God, great men, other gods, angels and divine beings. It is the context that determines whether “God” or a great person is being referred to. This is actually a cause of occasional disagreement between translators, and they sometimes argue about whether “GOD” refers to God, the Father, or to a powerful person or representative of God. One example of this occurs in Exodus 21:6, which instructs a master whose servant wishes to serve him for life to bring the servant “to Elohim.” The KJV, the NIV and many others believe that the owner of the servant is supposed to bring the servant before the local authorities, and so they translate Elohim as “judges” (see also Ex. 22:8-9 for more examples). Other translators felt that the master was required to bring the servant to God, so they translated Elohim as “God”(e.g., NRSV). Thus, the verse will read, “God” or “judges,” depending on the translation.

For example, in 2 Corinthians 4:4, the word “theos” has the definite article, but the verse is referring to the Devil.

Context is always the final judge of whether theos should be translated “God” or “god.”

Hebrews 1:8 is like other verses in that just because the word “theos” (“GOD”) is used does not mean that it refers to the Father. It could easily be referring to “god” in the biblical sense that great men are called “god.” The Septuagint uses the word theos for God, but also for men in places like Psalm 82 where men represent God. The context must be the determining factor in deciding what “GOD” refers to. In this case, in Hebrews that we are studying, the context is clear. Throughout the entire context from Hebrews 1:1, Christ is seen to be lesser than God the Father. Therefore, the use of “theos” here should be translated “god.”

The context must determine whether Christ is being referred to as the Supreme Being or just a man with great authority, so it must be read carefully. In this case, however, one need not read far to find that Christ, called “God,” himself has a “God.” The very next verse, Hebrews 1:9, says, “therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions.” Thus, Christ cannot be the supreme God, because the supreme God does not have a God. Furthermore, Christ’s God “set” him above others and “anointed” him. This makes it abundantly clear that the use of theos here in Hebrews is not referring to Christ being the supreme God, but rather a man with great authority under another God.

Andrews Norton writes:

Here the context proves that the word “God” does not denote the Supreme Being, but is used in an inferior sense. This is admitted by some of the most respectable Trinitarian critics. Thus, the Rev. Dr. Mayer remarks: “Here the Son is addressed by the title God: but the context shows that it is an official title which designates him as a king: he has a kingdom, a throne and a scepter; and in verse 9 he is compared with other kings, who are called his fellows; but God can have no fellows. As the Son, therefore, he is classed with the kings of the earth, and his superiority over them consists in this, that he is anointed with the oil of gladness above them; inasmuch as their thrones are temporary, but his shall be everlasting.”

The verse is a quotation from Psalm 45:6,7. The Jews read this verse for centuries and, knowing the flexibility of the word “God,” never concluded that the Messiah would somehow be part of a Triune God as you profess ForHimAlone.

You must note that the verse in the Greek text can also be translated as, “Thy throne is God.” However, because the verse is a reference from the Old Testament, and because we believe that God, the Father, is calling His Christ a “god” (i.e., one with divine authority), there is no need to translate the verse other than, “Thy throne, O god, is forever.”

"The word of God and God the Father have eternal distinction but they are of the same essence or substance. The Trinity may be found taught in very many places of the Scripture.”
According to Trinitarianism, ‘The word of God’ is a self- conscious personal entity that converses with ‘ God the father’ that also possesses his own self awareness, which share the same eternal ‘essence or substance’. This translates as two personal self conscious gods that share the same divine nature, not One God in two or three persons.

“God did not counsel with the angels in the creation of Adam. God needed counsel from no, other, created being.”

Other Trinitarians disagree with you for substantiated reasons. A great number of Trinitarian Christian scholars have long abandoned the notion that Genesis 1:26 implies a plurality of persons in the godhead. For example, the evangelical Christian author Gordon J. Wenham, who authored a widely respected two-volume commentary on the Book of Genesis, writes on this verse,

“Christians have traditionally seen [Genesis 1:26] as adumbrating [foreshadowing] the Trinity. It is now universally admitted that this was not what the plural meant to the original author.”

The NIV Study Bible also writes in its commentary on Genesis 1:26,

Us . . . Our . . . Our. God speaks as the Creator-king, announcing His crowning work to the members of His heavenly court. (see 3:22; 11:7; Isaiah 6:8; I Kings 22:19-23; Job 15:8; Jeremiah 23:18)

Hint: A manager plans to give a presentation about the future strategies of the business, says to his work colleagues, “we need to switch on the lights so that we can begin our presentation” Yet only one person (the manager) presses the light switch on and gives the presentation.

When we analyze the verbs used to describe acts of creation in Genesis they are singular in form indicating The Creator (God Almighty, not Jesus) in reality is singular.

If you want to debate the interpretation of Genesis 1:26, I suggest you open a thread in the ‘Judaism’ section of this forum. They’ ll teach you a lesson or two about how to understand the true interpretation of Genesis 1:26.

”Take, for example, the passage of Jesus' baptism. Here, we find the Trinity clearly present. The eternal, now incarnate Son, is spoken of by the Father, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." The Holy Spirit descended in the form of a dove and lighted on Jesus”.

The Baptism scene does not demonstrate support for the doctrine of the Trinity!

What it does illustrate is that each god of the trinity has specific delegated responsibilities that collectively operate in unison to ensure the salvation of Man.

”The Godhead is one what and three who. God is not an isolated oneness but is revealed to man as a Triunity of Persons with one nature or essence.”

In English translation, what you actually profess is that The Godhead is one essence and three gods. In other words, One essence that dwells in three gods that you identify as ‘persons’ that operate collectively in unison to ensure the salvation of man.

Trinitarianism is not what the prophets of God taught their nations.
Supplicate to The Sustainer of the heavens and earth and ask Him to show you the truth about the real identity of Jesus Christ.

“171. O People of the Book! Do not exaggerate in your religion: Nor say of God except but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word (Be), which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in God and His Messengers. Say not "Three" : desist: it will be better for you: for God is one God. Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs.

172. The Messiah does by no means disdain that he should be a servant of God, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoever disdains His service and is proud, He will gather them all together to Himself. 173. But to those who believe and do deeds of righteousness, He will give their (due) rewards,- and more, out of His bounty: But those who are disdainful and arrogant, He will punish with a grievous penalty; Nor will they find, besides God, any to protect or help them.”


I have a few, remaining questions for your consideration -

Upon whose throne did Jesus say he sat?

If on the Father's throne, how does Jesus receive this honor if not equal with God?

If on his own throne, then he is a liar, because he said he was "sat down with the Father in his throne."

What does Jesus mean when he says that "he that does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him" ?

Why was the Father "well pleased" with the Son?

It is my conviction that those who do not believe in the eternal Sonship of Christ neither know the Scripture, nor Christian history. I had mentioned before that the worship of Christ as God was not an add-on, but was from the very beginning.

Quite clearly you ignore the presence of the Trinity at the baptism of Christ. The Father was the voice from heaven and the Holy Spirit was in the form of the Dove, lighting on the Son of Man. Moreover, a number of good mss. retain the long ending of Matthew, with the "formula" for baptism being in the names of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

He that denies the Son, John saith, deny the Father as well.

While the Jews had their conception of their Messiah merely as an earthly, political and military figure, such a conception was hardly able to bring the promised deliverance from sin, the spiritual problem that no political or military leader could effectively eradicate.

Of himself Jesus said:
The Father sent him -
He did not come of himself -
Gave him what to say -
Said his doctrine was not his own, but the Father's -
Gave him to ressurect all the dead and execute the final judgment
Gave him to be the sin-bearer
Gave him power over the nations
Said he was the "I Am"

People can deny the Trinity all they like - The question is, what do you do with Jesus? Is he your Lord and Savior? Have you given over your life to him?

He that seeks to save his life shall loose it; but he that shall loose his life for MY sake shall save it unto life eternal.

Strong words for a mere man to make. Loosing one's life consists in other ways than merely dying physically for another. It would also import the idea of one's allegience to another, by denying one's self and will, and thereby executing the will of another, whose authority is greater.

Without question, what we do with Jesus is the key to everlasting life.

As the "most blessed" verse (John 3.16) tells us:

For God (the Father) so loved the world, that he (the Father) gave his (the Father's) only begotten Son (not made, but begotten) that whosoever should believe (give over one's life) on him (the Son - that the Father gave) should not perish, but have everlasting life.

For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through him might be saved.

Jesus said the very word he spoke would judge men in the last day - (John 12.48) a strong (not to mention ridiculous and absurd) statement to make if it came from but a mere man.

I suggest you abandon your previously-held prejudice, which has neither eyes nor ears.

God's Word is equal with God. How does God's word have an independent consciousness? No man knows the mystery of the Godhead. What we can know is that there are eternal distinctions. The Father is not the Son and the Son is not the Spirit, but the Spirit issues forth from both the Father and Son.

BTW: Jesus breathed on them, saying "Receive ye the Holy Spirit. How could a man do this?

Jesus forgave sin - The Jews rightly knew: Only God can forgive sin.

Of the Holy Spirit, Jesus said that he would "Glorify me" - meaning, glorify Jesus. Glorifying a mere man? Not something the Father would ever allow. God will not give or share his glory with any. How then does the Spirit "glorify" (and "speak" of) of Jesus, if Jesus was but a mere man?

Re-read John 13-15.

What think ye of Christ? Whose Son is he? - A question Jesus posed to the Pharisees. They answered "David's." He then recites Psalm 110 to them, asking, "Then how does David in spirit call him Lord?"

The Pharisees didn't understand the incarnation any more than the ignorant Jews and Muslims who supposed (or would lower) Jesus was to be merely a great prophet. If Jesus was not the Divine Son of God, then he must necessarily be a fraud or a nut, because in that case he couldn't possibly believe the proclamations he made about himself.

Jesus wouldn't even qualify as a prophet if he was not, in fact, what he claimed for himself.

Those who deny the Son know not the Scripture, nor the plan of God contained therein.

Such are yet in their sins and will die in them, if they do not repent.

I am not your judge. I pray God's mercy be upon you. This is what I want for myself. But what you do with Jesus, friend, will seal your final destiny after death, for once a man crosses that bridge, there is no turning back.

Think about these things and may the Lord give you understanding.

FHA

[heisonly1]

Freedom from polytheism...hmm didn't know I was a slave to polytheism.

I have no problem reconciling the Trinity as one God.

Maybe you should try thinking multi-dimensional.

Lets say the world was just two dimensions, but God is three dimensional.

Lets also say God touched the world with his finger tip. How would that three dimensional finger manifest in a two dimensional world? Why all we'd see is a circle.

So your view is that circle is not God?

See my view is Jesus is just one manifestation of God. The Holy Spirit is another, and He manifests Himself in various ways. we know He manifested Himself as a Pillar of smoke by day and a flame by night. We also know God has manifested Himself as a burning bush. Should I go on or do you need more manifestations to get the point?

Your thinking in a narrow mindset, that God can not manifest Himself in multiple ways.

Your doctrine doesn't free anybody from polytheism, no it enslaves one into a thinking that limits how God can manifest Himself.

Are you saying God could not take human form? Is that impossible for Him to do?

That right!



The concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.” People commonly say that God is able to do all things; whatever He wants to do, He can do. In the Bible of Christians it is said, “... through God all things are

The Qur’aan of Muslims states,



“Indeed, God is able to do all things.”[Surah Baqarah (2):20]



All the major religious texts contain general expressions regarding the basic concept of God’s omnipotence. He is Greater than all things, and through Him all things are possible. If this general concept is to be translated into practical terms, one has to first identify and understand the basic attributes of God.



Omnipotence has historically been understood as the ability to perform any task consistent with His character and essence that befits His grandeur and majesty.



This would exclude 'things' like:



It is impossible for God to lie

It is impossible for God to deny his existence and character

It is impossible for him to will himself out of existence.



Most societies perceive God as an eternal being without beginning or end. If, on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, what would be the answer? Since dying is part of “all things,” can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.



So, there is a problem here. God is defined as being ever-living, without end, and dying means “coming to an end.” Consequently, to ask if He can die is actually a nonsensical question. It is self- contradictory. Similarly, to ask whether God can be born, is also absurd because God has already been defined as eternal, having no beginning. Being born means having a beginning, coming into existence after not existing. In this same vein, atheist philosophers enjoy asking theists: “Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?” If the theist says yes, it means that God can create something greater than Himself. And if he says no, it means that God is unable to do all things.



Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.



The claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that the Creator has become His creation. However, the creation is a product of the creative act of the Creator. If the Creator became His creation, it would mean that the Creator created Himself, which is an obvious absurdity. To be created, He would first have to not exist, and, if He did not exist, how could He then create? Furthermore, if He were created, it would mean that He had a beginning, which also contradicts His being eternal. By definition creation is in need of a creator. For created beings to exist they must have a creator to bring them into existence. God cannot need a creator because God is the Creator. Thus, there is an obvious contradiction in terms. The claim that God became His creation implies that He would need a creator, which is a ludicrous concept. It contradicts the fundamental concept of God being uncreated, needing no creator and being the Creator.



I Kings 8:27



“For will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain Thee, how much less this house that I have built?”



2 Chronicles 2:6



“But who is able to build a temple for him, since the heavens, even the highest heavens, cannot contain him? Who then am I to build a temple for him, except as a place to burn sacrifices before him?”



According to the Biblical scriptures, If the heavens and earth cannot contain Him, how on earth can God Almighty incarnate and dwell in a human body!?



”See my view is Jesus is just one manifestation of God. The Holy Spirit is another, and He manifests Himself in various ways. we know He manifested Himself as a Pillar of smoke by day and a flame by night. We also know God has manifested Himself as a burning bush. Should I go on or do you need more manifestations to get the point?”



If Jesus is God because he is one manifestation of God, then according to your reasoning, the pillar of smoke and the burning bush is also God, since they are other manifestations of God !



You indeed are wondering in a maze of error and misguidance! The buring bush or the Pillar of smoke never was and never became God.



According to Trinitarianism, At a given time, these manifestations are three distinct personal entities each possess their own self consciousness and share the same divine essence. As I keep repeating, these three manifestations translate as three gods that eternally subsist and operate in unison to achieve a common goal.



One Essence in three gods you identify as three ‘manifestations’ or persons.


This makes you a polytheist in the highest degree, while you preceive not.



Often I've heard the question about whether God is able to Become man.

If you merely ponder that question for a moment, considering what an All-perfect Omnipotent being is, then perhaps you will realize the mental futility you are engaging in.

Since God is logically perfect, as well as omnipotent, and all the He does is logically perfect, Therefore, God becoming a man is illogical, so the question is mute, since God cannot do anything that contradicts His majesty that would make Him an imperfect human being.


The fact that God is limited to becoming a human being this does not mean that the power of God is limited, rather it is an affirmation of the completeness of His power and nature that is perfect. If we say that God cannot be unaware of or forget anything, saying that does not mean that He is incapable or is lacking, rather it is an affirmation of His perfection and complete power and knowledge.

[Zguy28]

Christian crusader soldiers all over the world are killing, raping and mutilating innocent Muslims in the name of Christ every minute. It is the Christian crusader soldiers that bring death and destruction to the Islamic world. No its Muslims killing Muslims for the most part. Most Christians in Muslim nations are persecuted and tortured for believing in Christ or killed for converting.

Do you deny this?

Are Christians actively persecuting and torturing Muslims because of their faith?

[Forrest]

That right!



The concept of God becoming man contradicts the basic meaning of the term “God.” People commonly say that God is able to do all things; whatever He wants to do, He can do. In the Bible of Christians it is said, “... through God all things are

The Qur’aan of Muslims states,



“Indeed, God is able to do all things.”[Surah Baqarah (2):20]



All the major religious texts contain general expressions regarding the basic concept of God’s omnipotence. He is Greater than all things, and through Him all things are possible. If this general concept is to be translated into practical terms, one has to first identify and understand the basic attributes of God.



Omnipotence has historically been understood as the ability to perform any task consistent with His character and essence that befits His grandeur and majesty.



This would exclude 'things' like:



It is impossible for God to lie

It is impossible for God to deny his existence and character

It is impossible for him to will himself out of existence.



Most societies perceive God as an eternal being without beginning or end. If, on the basis that God is able to do all things, and it was asked whether God could die, what would be the answer? Since dying is part of “all things,” can it be said, “If He wants to?” Of course this cannot be said.



So, there is a problem here. God is defined as being ever-living, without end, and dying means “coming to an end.” Consequently, to ask if He can die is actually a nonsensical question. It is self- contradictory. Similarly, to ask whether God can be born, is also absurd because God has already been defined as eternal, having no beginning. Being born means having a beginning, coming into existence after not existing. In this same vein, atheist philosophers enjoy asking theists: “Can God create a stone too heavy for Him to lift?” If the theist says yes, it means that God can create something greater than Himself. And if he says no, it means that God is unable to do all things.



Therefore, the term “all things” in the phrase “God is able to do all things” excludes the absurdities. It cannot include things that contradict His divine attributes; things that would make Him less than God, like, forgetting, sleeping, repenting, growing, eating, etc. Instead, it includes only “all things” that are consistent with Him being God. This is what the statement “God is able to do all things” means. It cannot be understood in the absolute sense; it must be qualified.



The claim that God became man is also an absurdity. It is not befitting of God to take on human characteristics because it means that the Creator has become His creation. However, the creation is a product of the creative act of the Creator. If the Creator became His creation, it would mean that the Creator created Himself, which is an obvious absurdity. To be created, He would first have to not exist, and, if He did not exist, how could He then create? Furthermore, if He were created, it would mean that He had a beginning, which also contradicts His being eternal. By definition creation is in need of a creator. For created beings to exist they must have a creator to bring them into existence. God cannot need a creator because God is the Creator. Thus, there is an obvious contradiction in terms. The claim that God became His creation implies that He would need a creator, which is a ludicrous concept. It contradicts the fundamental concept of God being uncreated, needing no creator and being the Creator.



I Kings 8:27



“For will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain Thee, how much less this house that I have built?”



2 Chronicles 2:6



“But who is able to build a temple for him, since the heavens, even the highest heavens, cannot contain him? Who then am I to build a temple for him, except as a place to burn sacrifices before him?”



According to the Biblical scriptures, If the heavens and earth cannot contain Him, how on earth can God Almighty incarnate and dwell in a human body!?



”See my view is Jesus is just one manifestation of God. The Holy Spirit is another, and He manifests Himself in various ways. we know He manifested Himself as a Pillar of smoke by day and a flame by night. We also know God has manifested Himself as a burning bush. Should I go on or do you need more manifestations to get the point?”



If Jesus is God because he is one manifestation of God, then according to your reasoning, the pillar of smoke and the burning bush is also God, since they are other manifestations of God !



You indeed are wondering in a maze of error and misguidance! The buring bush or the Pillar of smoke never was and never became God.



According to Trinitarianism, At a given time, these manifestations are three distinct personal entities each possess their own self consciousness and share the same divine essence. As I keep repeating, these three manifestations translate as three gods that eternally subsist and operate in unison to achieve a common goal.



One Essence in three gods you identify as three ‘manifestations’ or persons.


This makes you a polytheist in the highest degree, while you preceive not.



Often I've heard the question about whether God is able to Become man.

If you merely ponder that question for a moment, considering what an All-perfect Omnipotent being is, then perhaps you will realize the mental futility you are engaging in.

Since God is logically perfect, as well as omnipotent, and all the He does is logically perfect, Therefore, God becoming a man is illogical, so the question is mute, since God cannot do anything that contradicts His majesty that would make Him an imperfect human being.


The fact that God is limited to becoming a human being this does not mean that the power of God is limited, rather it is an affirmation of the completeness of His power and nature that is perfect. If we say that God cannot be unaware of or forget anything, saying that does not mean that He is incapable or is lacking, rather it is an affirmation of His perfection and complete power and knowledge.




No, I'm not wondering around misled or confused. As I've stated plainly...I've met Him. I know who He is. As I said to the other fellow, take your theory (your religion) to somebody who cares about it.

I have no problem seeing God manifesting as a man. In fact one of the reasons He has told me He did that was so we would know He undertands what it is like to be a man.

Another reason He came as a man is because He wanted to give the best gift possible to the children He loves, to those whom He desires to save from this darkness. A perfect sacrifice who can serve as High Priest forever.

Now certainly if you are of the children of Abraham (which I assume you claim to be since your religion claims that) than you must know that this manifestation of God...was God...

Gen 15:17-18 (KJV) And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. {18} In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

That was God walking through those pieces making His covenant with Abram, whom He renamed Abraham.

Unless of course you believe a covenant can be made with out both parties being present?

Now, you have a conundrum. You must either deny your covenant with God or admit God manifested himself to Abraham. For certainly God spoke to Abraham…unless of course you want to deny your own religion and say He did not. For that is all the children of Ishmael have.

[heisonly1]

No, I'm not wondering around misled or confused. As I've stated plainly...I've met Him. I know who He is. As I said to the other fellow, take your theory (your religion) to somebody who cares about it.

Whoever you met, it was not God that you were speaking to. IT was something else!

"I have no problem seeing God manifesting as a man. In fact one of the reasons He has told me He did that was so we would know He undertands what it is like to be a man."

God Almighty has full knowledge of the nature of His creation. He created the very instinct of man. He does not need to become his creation to understand his creation.



In the Quran it proclaims:



“It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein”



The Jugular veins are situated on either side of the neck and carry returning blood from the brain to the heart. This saying of God is like His Words



“He is the First [nothing is before Him] and the Last [nothing is after Him], the Most High [nothing is above Him] and the Most Near [nothing is nearer than He] and He is the Knower of everything." (57:3)”


"Another reason He came as a man is because He wanted to give the best gift possible to the children He loves, to those whom He desires to save from this darkness. A perfect sacrifice who can serve as High Priest forever."

God almighty has show us that salvation is achieved through sincere repentence, not through a human/god sacrifice.


"O my Servants who have transgressed against their souls! Do not despair of the Mercy of God: for God forgives all sins: for He is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful." Turn to your Lord (in repentance) and bow to His Will, before the Penalty comes upon you: after that you shall not be helped. (Az-Zumar, 53-54)

When those who believe in Our signs, come to you say: "Peace be upon you: Your Lord has decreed for Himself (the rule of) mercy: truly, if any of you committed evil in ignorance, and thereafter repented, and mended his ways, he would find God Oft-forgiving and Most Merciful." (Al-Anaam, 54)

Muhammad (p) said that "Allah the Exalted said: O son of Adam, as long as you call Me (with trust in My Mercy), I shall forgive you with greatest of ease. O son of Adam, even if your sins extended to the horizons and you sought My forgiveness, I shall forgive you with greatest of ease. O son of Adam, if you come to Me with an earth full of sins, without associating anything with Me, I shall come to you with an earth full of forgiveness!"

Prophet Muhammad (p) said: "Allah, the Lord of honor & glory, says: he who does good deed shall be rewarded ten times or I may give more, and he who does an evil deed will be punished for only one sin, or I may forgive; and he who comes to Me by a hand's breadth I shall approach him an arm's length, and he who advances towards Me by an arm's length I shall approach him two arm's length; and he who comes to Me walking, I shall go to him running; and he who meets Me with an earthful of sins, provided he has not associated anything with Me, I shall meet him with an equal amount of forgiveness."



Prophet Muhammad (p) said "A man committed a sins and then said `O Lord! I have committed a sin, forgive me!' Then his Lord said: `Does My servant know that he has a Lord Who forgives sins and also punishes for it? Lo! I have forgiven My servant.' Then sometime passed and again committed a sin, and said, `O Lord! I have committed another sin, forgive me,' Allah the Exalted said: `Does My servant know that he has a Lord Who forgives sins and also punishes for it? I have forgiven My servant.' Then after some time he committed a sin and said: `O my Lord! I have committed another sin, forgive me for it'! Allah the Exalted said: `Does My servant know that he has a Lord Who forgives sins and punishes for it? I have forgiven My servant three times; let him do what he likes."


"Now certainly if you are of the children of Abraham (which I assume you claim to be since your religion claims that) than you must know that this manifestation of God...was God..."


“Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to God (Which is Islam), and he joined no deities with God.

Without doubt, among men, the nearest of kin to Abraham, are those who follow him, as are also this Messenger and those who believe: And God is the Protector of those who have faith.

It is the wish of a section of the People of the Book to lead you astray. But they shall lead astray (Not you), but themselves, and they do not perceive! 3:67-69



They say: "Become Jews or Christians if ye would be guided (To salvation)." Say thou: "Nay! (I would rather) the Religion of Abraham the True, and he joined not gods with Allah."

Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to God (in Islam)."

“So if they believe as ye believe, they are indeed on the right path; but if they turn back, it is they who are in dissension; but God will suffice thee as against them, and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Knowing.” 2:135-137

Say: "(God) speaketh the Truth: follow the religion of Abraham, the upright in faith; he was not of the idolaters." 3:95

“Who can be better in religion than one who submits his whole self to Allah, does good, and follows the way of Abraham the true in Faith? For Allah did take Abraham for a friend.” 4:125

Say: "Verily, my Lord hath guided me to a way that is straight,- a religion of right,- the path by Abraham the true in Faith, and he (certainly) joined not gods with God." 6:162

“So We have taught thee the inspired (Message), "Follow the ways of Abraham the True in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah." 16:123


"Gen 15:17-18 (KJV) And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces. {18} In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:"

"That was God walking through those pieces making His covenant with Abram, whom He renamed Abraham."

"Unless of course you believe a covenant can be made with out both parties being present?"

Where Does it say God was walking in these verses and was manifested as a human being!!??



God spoke to Abraham in a manner that befits His majesty that does not require God to become a ‘glorified monkey’ to be present to fulfil a covenant. As I have explained, He Cannot since according to the Biblical scriptures - “For will God indeed dwell on the earth? Behold the heaven and heaven of heavens cannot contain Thee, how much less this house that I have built?” - “But who is able to build a temple for him, since the heavens, even the highest heavens, cannot contain him? Who then am I to build a temple for him, except as a place to burn sacrifices before him?”


God Almighty is All Knowing, The Most Near and is present with His knowledge.

"Now, you have a conundrum. You must either deny your covenant with God or admit God manifested himself to Abraham. For certainly God spoke to Abraham…unless of course you want to deny your own religion and say He did not. For that is all the children of Ishmael have."

The only conundrum that exists is that which subsists in your mind.

May The Lord of the Worlds guide your heart to the truth of Islam.

[Giver]

Because I met Him!

I did not see His form, nor did I audibly hear His voice. But I had an experience where I know with certainty that I was in His presence. An experience that is something of a cross between Acts 2, Luke 24 and this verse...

Luke 3:16-17 (NIV) John answered them all, "I baptize you with water. But one more powerful than I will come, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. {17} His winnowing fork is in his hand to clear his threshing floor and to gather the wheat into his barn, but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

I had spent more than a year trying to 'fix my own life'. In a real way I lived Romans 7 where Paul says, "I agree God's law is good, but the good I desire to do, this I do not do. Instead the evil I hate, this I keep on doing. Who will save me from this body of death? Praise be to God for Christ Jesus". I was snared in compulsive behaviors and He came to set me free!

I realized an emptiness as well as the inability to set my life right. I knew my heart was not right within me. One night I was laying in my bed. I sensed a presence in the room, yet I couldn’t see anybody there. At first I had fear, then comfort, then an urge to pray. For the first time in my life I prayed a serious prayer. “Lord, my life is a mess and I’m the one messing it up. Please send somebody to help me.

Over the course of the next several weeks He sent witnesses across my path to plant seeds. One of the most important came in the form of a question.

A man asked me, “what makes you worthwhile as a human being”. Since I had long ago realized that any value I might have to posterity would quickly fade with time I could not come up with any sound answer. The man let me ponder this. I came back the next day and asked him what the answer was.

He said, “God loves you. To him your worthwhile”.

That was the first time I had ever heard that. All I’d ever heard out of religious people was about behaving good and not going to hell. I’d heard God is love. But I had never heard that to Him I was worthwhile!

A few weeks later God sent the man who would lead me to Him and pray with me. This is when I had the experience of meeting God. As this man opened the scriptures my heart burned within me.

Luke 24:32 (KJV) And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

I had the sensation of my blood boiling (Luke 3:16-17). And I saw what looked like fire descend upon me.

At the time that this happened (the fire descending) I sat up stiffly and suddenly as I thought I had somehow seen a vision of hell. I was frieghtned for a few minutes by what I'd seen, and very unsure about what I'd seen.

In fact a few days later after this had happened to me I began to question if it was from God or the devil! I was alone in a hotel room. I asked God to show me the truth. I opened the Bible sitting there (thank God for the Gideon’s) and I opened it and began to read. It happened to open to the passage where John says “He baptizes you with fire”. Then I turned a few pages and there I read Luke 23:32. Then I flipped a few more and there I was in Acts 2, the Day of Pentecost and read about the cloven tongues of fire.

God had done this…

Mark 16:20 (KJV) And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

God had confirmed His word to me in a way that it is forever cemented.

I knew then I had met Jesus and that He is God. So I say with confidence...I know the Lord. And I am not in fear of this saying...

Mat 7:21 (NIV) "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

Mat 7:23 (NIV) Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me , you evildoers!'

I am not in fear ...For I know the Lord


Amen! I have met him also and yes; maybe because I was so hard to reach, he talked to me audibly. I know he is God because he told me so, and he told me the Bible is his word. Also he healed my daughter who was born blind, also another daughter from cancer, and brought back a man, who hit my car with his motorcycle, to life. I know Jesus is God because he taught me to love and to do good not bad. Killing people for any reason is bad. He told me that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason.

[Forrest]

The only conundrum that exists is that which subsists in your mind.

May The Lord of the Worlds guide your heart to the truth of Islam.
You don't read very carefully. I didn't say God became a man so that He could understand us. I said He became a man so that we would know He understood us. a subtle but essential difference.

Now that is only one reason He did this. Another is so that He may impart His Spirit to men so that their spirit might be born again.

You might want to go do whatever pentence or wahtever your religion calls for as you seem to be full of insults and aren't doing as Abraham did...who walked rightly before God.

You might also try putting the quotes and unquotes in the right places so others can decipher whatever it is your trying to say. It appears you just inserted a comment in the middle of my quote, and so what you've said became somewhat unintelligable.

And yes, the pillar of smoke and fire was God...it was the Holy Spirit. We see the Holy Spirit manifesting Himself as a dove, as a fire. God can manifest Himself in many ways, but to correct your misunderstanding of what I've said, He is a triune being. In fact so are we...Body, Soul, Spirit. Imagine that.

I do have a question for you...what is Christ? Notice I didn't say who.

[Forrest]

Amen! I have met him also and yes; maybe because I was so hard to reach, he talked to me audibly. I know he is God because he told me so, and he told me the Bible is his word. Also he healed my daughter who was born blind, also another daughter from cancer, and brought back a man, who hit my car with his motorcycle, to life. I know Jesus is God because he taught me to love and to do good not bad. Killing people for any reason is bad. He told me that we were not to hurt anyone for any reason.

Amen, I'm gald God has done all these things for you and that you have come to know Jesus. I can tell you the day after I met Him I was walking on air I was so happy.

[heisonly1]

You don't read very carefully. I didn't say God became a man so that He could understand us. I said He became a man so that we would know He understood us. a subtle but essential difference.

Now that is only one reason He did this. Another is so that He may impart His Spirit to men so that their spirit might be born again.

You might want to go do whatever pentence or wahtever your religion calls for as you seem to be full of insults and aren't doing as Abraham did...who walked rightly before God.

You might also try putting the quotes and unquotes in the right places so others can decipher whatever it is your trying to say. It appears you just inserted a comment in the middle of my quote, and so what you've said became somewhat unintelligable.

And yes, the pillar of smoke and fire was God...it was the Holy Spirit. We see the Holy Spirit manifesting Himself as a dove, as a fire. God can manifest Himself in many ways, but to correct your misunderstanding of what I've said, He is a triune being. In fact so are we...Body, Soul, Spirit. Imagine that.

I do have a question for you...what is Christ? Notice I didn't say who.

[QUOTE=Forrest]"You don't read very carefully. I didn't say God became a man so that He could understand us. I said He became a man so that we would know He understood us. a subtle but essential difference."



Are you saying that Prior to the second god of the trinity (the son) incarnated/became a god on earth, mankind was not aware that God understood His creation. Of course we did Forrest! Even the The Old Testament stipulates that God understands all our human thoughts, emotions and feelings. He created us and our emotions!



As I explained berfore:



God Almighty has full knowledge of the nature of His creation. He created the very instinct of man.



In the Quran it proclaims:



“It was We Who created man, and We know what dark suggestions his soul makes to him: for We are nearer to him than (his) jugular vein”

The Jugular veins are situated on either side of the neck and carry returning blood from the brain to the heart. This saying of God is like His Words.

“He is the First [nothing is before Him] and the Last [nothing is after Him], the Most High [nothing is above Him] and the Most Near [nothing is nearer than He] and He is the Knower of everything." (57:3)”

Therefore God Almighty never required to become man to ensure we understand him.He sent his Prophets and messenger to reveal his clear revelations to show us how to live in accordance to His Will. Through revelation mankind has always understood that God Almighty is the All Knowing, The Wise and is fully aware of His creation



"Now that is only one reason He did this. Another is so that He may impart His Spirit to men so that their spirit might be born again."



God was imparting His Spirit to His chosen servants prior to the supposed incarnation of the second god of the trinity.



"You might want to go do whatever pentence or wahtever your religion calls for as you seem to be full of insults and aren't doing as Abraham did...who walked rightly before God."



I'm only telling you the truth about your misguidance. Truth hurts!



"You might also try putting the quotes and unquotes in the right places so others can decipher whatever it is your trying to say. It appears you just inserted a comment in the middle of my quote, and so what you've said became somewhat unintelligable."



Point taken and I agree. It was very late when I responded. I should get some sleep before posting.



"And yes, the pillar of smoke and fire was God...it was the Holy Spirit. We see the Holy Spirit manifesting Himself as a dove, as a fire. God can manifest Himself in many ways, but to correct your misunderstanding of what I've said, He is a triune being. In fact so are we...Body, Soul, Spirit. Imagine that."



The fire was God? God was the Holy Spirit? God become a Dove?



May The Lord of the Worlds protect us from such absurdity and misguidance!



God is not a triune being. God is a singular personal being.



Show me in your scriptures where it stipulates that one God is defined as three personal entities that each possesses the same divine essence form one God?



Until you can show us the evidence, you transparently worship three gods that possess their own self-awareness and share the same divine essence.



You worship not one God in three persons, rather One essence in three gods.



Re read my previous posts and know the truth about you misguidance before its to late.



"I do have a question for you...what is Christ? Notice I didn't say who."



WHAT The Arabic word, "masih" (Messiah) means is to anoint. The anointing being possessed by someone or something that is summoned to uphold a position of authority or office in a way that the person will be regarded as accredited by God Almighty.

The term Masih indicates a very high degree of the quality, which a person or subject possesses. The Hebrew word for Messiah, Mashiach, means to anoint. All prophets, priests and kings were consecrated to their respective positions by being anointed with the special oil that God commissioned the priests to prepare. (Exodus 30:22-31, 1 Samuel 10:1,16:12-13) This would in a sense make them "messiahs". In fact, the king of Persia, Cyrus, is also called the mashiach of God in Isaiah 45:1.

Although Biblically, it is quite true that many are referred to as being anointed by God, the Quran points to one person in particular who was to be greater than all the rest and would ultimately be the supremely anointed one of God, more so than any other person; Jesus The Messiah, the son of Mary.

IN the Quran it proclaims:

42. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God hath chosen thee and purified thee- chosen thee above the women of all nations.

43. "O Mary! worship Thy Lord devoutly: Prostrate thyself, and bow down (in prayer) with those who bow down."

44. This is part of the tidings of the things unseen, which We reveal unto thee (O Muhammad.) by inspiration: Thou wast not with them when they cast lots with arrows, as to which of them should be charged with the care of Mary: Nor wast thou with them when they disputed (the point).

45. Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! God giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Messiah Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to God.

46. "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

47. She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: God createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'BE,' and it is!

48. "And God will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,

49. "And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by God.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by God.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;

50. "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear God, and obey me.

51. "'It is God Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'" (19:42-51)

Also:

“But the Messiah said: ‘O Children of Israel! Worship God, my Lord and your Lord.’ Verily, whosoever sets up partners (in worship) with God, then God has forbidden Paradise to him, and the Fire will be his abode. And for the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers) there are no helpers”

Also:

“And (remember) when God will say (on the Day of Resurrection): 'O Jesus, son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: Worship me and my mother as two gods besides God?’ He (Jesus) will say: ‘Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner‑self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All‑Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen).

Never did I say to them aught except what You (God) did command me to say: Worship God, my Lord and your Lord. And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things.’” 5:116-117]


The Muslims await for Jesus The Messiah to descend and rule the earth with justice and peace as a sign of the last hour. He will establish a time of peace that will fill the whole earth like none of mankind has ever seen. He will testify against those that associated falsehood to him and join those that Worship God Almighty alone. The ones who submit – The Muslims.

Say: “O Jews and Christians! Come to common terms as between us and you: that we worship none but God; that we associate no partners with Him; that we erect not from among ourselves Lords and patrons other than God.” If then they turn back say: “Bear witness that we (at least) are Muslims (bowing to God’s will).” [Surah Al-e-Imran 3:64]