Evolution Observations

[Jack777]

The supposed "debate" surrounding whether or not evolution functions as presented by Darwin and those who have followed his lead down to the present time has proven to be a farce on the TheologyWeb. I have presented many different aspects to consider that have been rejected based solely on lack of interest by rogero and others. I realize there is the problem of confronting the religion of evolution, but come on folks. The references backing up assertions were admittedly not even looked at because of the belief that they had no bearing on the matter. There is no need to present a laundry list of examples from my first posts in November of 2004. It is now September of 2005 and it is quite clear that much of what passes for "science" is merely the obfuscation that comes from ad hominem arguments. Has change taken place in living organisms through time? Of course. Are the great discoveries that lead us to know more intimately how things work on a sub-cellular level to the macro level important? Of course. From a geological point of view it is evident that the basis for the boundaries of Systems themselves prove change has taken place since the Pre-Cambrian. Within the geological Systems down to changes that take place within Formations give abundant evidence that change has taken place of a magnitude that had an impact upon living things. I still do not see a problem with reconciling what we know from science with the Bible. Basically, the "problems" come about due to belief from the theological and scientific sides of the "debate."

I have asserted that evolution is a religion and most of what has been posted supports and reinforces that assertion. Teasing out the beliefs of the religious and scientific-minded from fact has not taken place in any significant way. George Murphy has thrown up his hands and decide to move on and worry about what we might do should aliens visit us, after all we want to look smart for them. I suspect that should we encounter beings superior to us, the only thing of any consequence is to call on the name of Jesus. Presenting them with cooked-up ideas that are half-baked will not further the cause of Christ. The puerile techniques of personal attacks are not likely going to convince any aliens of how smart we are. As Christians, our worry is not making sure people think we are smart, it is holding up the name of Jesus.

I have not posted for a couple of months, but have been keeping abreast of the "debate." It is clear that most, if not all of you, do not have a working knowledge of recent and ancient history. Needless to say you do not know why or how anything from the Bible fits in with recorded history and pre-history. If you do not believe me, then answer when the Flood of Noah took place and why from an historical point of view. Do you know what major event took place at exactly the same time wiping out a culture a bit south of the Black Sea? Do you know what happened in what is now Pakistan or on the island of Bahrain at that time? Do you know what physical event caused the Flood of Noah? Do you know what the results were? Do you know what happened in Sumer and Akkad before Abram left Ur? Do you know what the results were of that event? More importantly, do you know why it is not true that the Book of Genesis is a rehash of pagan stories? Do you know the biological results on living things from just these two events?

Confining your arguments to lines of reasoning that ignore history, philology, epigraphy, archaeology, cryptology, and a host of evidence that supplies information important to your stance. I understand that you have to start somewhere, we all do. The first thing to do if you want to have any hope of coming to an accurate, if not precise, conclusion about the Bible and science is to seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness. He is the orthogonal straight-edge. Everything else is variance. The place to start is by accepting that the Bible is the direct Revelation of God to us. There are no "buts." If you do not know that, not much else matters as a Christian. Almost as important is that you will not make any progress at finding out anything that makes sense. It is true that science can be nicely done without knowing much if anything about the Bible. Chickens are able to get enough nourishment from pecking through the chicken dung and pebbles and consuming bugs and grain without being aware of much else.

[rogero]

The supposed "debate" surrounding whether or not evolution functions as presented by Darwin and those who have followed his lead (sic) down to the present time has proven to be a farce on the TheologyWeb. I have presented many different aspects to consider that have been rejected based solely on lack of interest by rogero and others. I realize there is the problem of confronting the religion of evolution, but come on folks. The references backing up assertions were admittedly not even looked at because of the belief that they had no bearing on the matter. There is no need to present a laundry list of examples from my first posts in November of 2004. It is now September of 2005 and it is quite clear that much of what passes for "science" is merely the obfuscation that comes from ad hominem arguments. Has change taken place in living organisms through time? Of course. Are the great discoveries that lead us to know more intimately how things work on a sub-cellular level to the macro level important? Of course. From a geological point of view it is evident that the basis for the boundaries of Systems themselves prove change has taken place since the Pre-Cambrian. Within the geological Systems down to changes that take place within Formations give abundant evidence that change has taken place of a magnitude that had an impact upon living things. I still do not see a problem with reconciling what we know from science with the Bible. Basically, the "problems" come about due to belief from the theological and scientific sides of the "debate."

I have asserted that evolution is a religion and most of what has been posted supports and reinforces that assertion. Teasing out the beliefs of the religious and scientific-minded from fact has not taken place in any significant way. George Murphy has thrown up his hands and decide to move on and worry about what we might do should aliens visit us, after all we want to look smart for them. I suspect that should we encounter beings superior to us, the only thing of any consequence is to call on the name of Jesus. Presenting them with cooked-up ideas that are half-baked will not further the cause of Christ. The puerile techniques of personal attacks are not likely going to convince any aliens of how smart we are. As Christians, our worry is not making sure people think we are smart, it is holding up the name of Jesus.

I have not posted for a couple of months, but have been keeping abreast of the "debate." It is clear that most, if not all of you, do not have a working knowledge of recent and ancient history. Needless to say you do not know why or how anything from the Bible fits in with recorded history and pre-history. If you do not believe me, then answer when the Flood of Noah took place and why from an historical point of view. Do you know what major event took place at exactly the same time wiping out a culture a bit south of the Black Sea? Do you know what happened in what is now Pakistan or on the island of Bahrain at that time? Do you know what physical event caused the Flood of Noah? Do you know what the results were? Do you know what happened in Sumer and Akkad before Abram left Ur? Do you know what the results were of that event? More importantly, do you know why it is not true that the Book of Genesis is a rehash of pagan stories? Do you know the biological results on living things from just these two events?

Confining your arguments to lines of reasoning that ignore history, philology, epigraphy, archaeology, cryptology, and a host of evidence that supplies information important to your stance. I understand that you have to start somewhere, we all do. The first thing to do if you want to have any hope of coming to an accurate, if not precise, conclusion about the Bible and science is to seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness. He is the orthogonal straight-edge. Everything else is variance. The place to start is by accepting that the Bible is the direct Revelation of God to us. There are no "buts." If you do not know that, not much else matters as a Christian. Almost as important is that you will not make any progress at finding out anything that makes sense. It is true that science can be nicely done without knowing much if anything about the Bible. Chickens are able to get enough nourishment from pecking through the chicken dung and pebbles and consuming bugs and grain without being aware of much else.

Oh, goody -- Jack is back! Are you planning another posting blitz with long boring OPs and opinionated literary tricks like using a capital "R" in "Revelation of God"?


I have presented many different aspects to consider that have been rejected based solely on lack of interest by rogero and others. I realize there is the problem of confronting the religion of evolution, but come on folks.


They were rejected because they were mainly loads of crap presented by an old crank. Your brittle and unsubstantiated rhetoric didn't help either, such as "the religion of evolution". Maybe you could start another thread on how biological evolution is wrong 'cus Darwin was a racist wife-beating child-abusing atheist? That would be great fun -- just like old times!

As far as your long fine-fonted list of references, the onus is on you to explain them here, not for us to waste our time on a wild-goose chase when your excerpts here didn't support your points.



Needless to say you do not know why or how anything from the Bible fits in with recorded history and pre-history. If you do not believe me, then answer when the Flood of Noah took place and why from an historical point of view. Do you know what major event took place at exactly the same time wiping out a culture a bit south of the Black Sea? Do you know what happened in what is now Pakistan or on the island of Bahrain at that time? Do you know what physical event caused the Flood of Noah? Do you know what the results were? Do you know what happened in Sumer and Akkad before Abram left Ur? Do you know what the results were of that event? More importantly, do you know why it is not true that the Book of Genesis is a rehash of pagan stories? Do you know the biological results on living things from just these two events?


So was Noah's flood local or global? Most educated folks accept the Black Sea flooding and post-Pleistocene flooding events around 10Ka. What does this have to do with a global deluge? You believe in a global deluge, do you not? I know you do, so where's the geological evidence for it. You do have two degrees in geology don't know? You did tell us of the many wonderous findings you made while you were a geology tech, didn't you? So explain your views on the Noahic Deluge for us in a cogent manner.

And do explain the biological results on living things (kinda redundant!) you mentioned.



Confining your arguments to lines of reasoning that ignore history, philology, epigraphy, archaeology, cryptology, and a host of evidence that supplies information important to your stance. I understand that you have to start somewhere, we all do. The first thing to do if you want to have any hope of coming to an accurate, if not precise, conclusion about the Bible and science is to seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness. He is the orthogonal straight-edge. Everything else is variance. The place to start is by accepting that the Bible is the direct Revelation of God to us. There are no "buts." If you do not know that, not much else matters as a Christian. Almost as important is that you will not make any progress at finding out anything that makes sense. It is true that science can be nicely done without knowing much if anything about the Bible. Chickens are able to get enough nourishment from pecking through the chicken dung and pebbles and consuming bugs and grain without being aware of much else.



Ah, that's our Jack -- the old familiar load of rambling sanctimonious rhetoric. How about you present -- one at a time -- some of these evidences from history, philology, epigraphy, archaeology, cryptography (I'm sure that will be fun!), and the other "host of evidence" to bolster your stance. What is your stance anyway?

Boy, Jack, you know so much. We should all bow down before you. Only your crankish interpretation of geology, archaelogy, history, and scripture are true.

A few unanswered questions from the dim dark TWeb past:

1) If you accept that the biosphere is at 1 Ga old, how could this happen without biological evolution ("macroevolution") or complete extinctions. IIRC, you do believe that there have been mass extinctions, but no total extinctions.

2) Is Noah's Flood local or global? IIRC, you believe it was global, and explained the "alluvial record but not the rock record". Perhaps you could start a thread (I know you like this!) and explain your Flood views and how they jibe with geological evidence (you are an expert after all!).

3) Are still asserting the Bible, including the RC Deuterocanon, is the Word of God (capital "W") and is equivalent to the Logos Christ? IIRC, you once asserted that Christ is the Pentateuch.

4) Could you flesh out your late-Pleistocene catastrophism ideas here in the threads rather refer the reader to your webpage list of references?

To all readers unfamiliar with the Jackster: Ah, nostaglia is wonderful -- I recommend you check out some of his old threads (and there are many!) to get y'all up to speed. Enjoy the ride!

R

[shunyadragon]

The supposed "debate" surrounding whether or not evolution functions as presented by Darwin and those who have followed his lead down to the present time has proven to be a farce on the TheologyWeb. I have presented many different aspects to consider that have been rejected based solely on lack of interest by rogero and others. I realize there is the problem of confronting the religion of evolution, but come on folks. The references backing up assertions were admittedly not even looked at because of the belief that they had no bearing on the matter. There is no need to present a laundry list of examples from my first posts in November of 2004. It is now September of 2005 and it is quite clear that much of what passes for "science" is merely the obfuscation that comes from ad hominem arguments. Has change taken place in living organisms through time? Of course. Are the great discoveries that lead us to know more intimately how things work on a sub-cellular level to the macro level important? Of course. From a geological point of view it is evident that the basis for the boundaries of Systems themselves prove change has taken place since the Pre-Cambrian. Within the geological Systems down to changes that take place within Formations give abundant evidence that change has taken place of a magnitude that had an impact upon living things. I still do not see a problem with reconciling what we know from science with the Bible. Basically, the "problems" come about due to belief from the theological and scientific sides of the "debate."

I have asserted that evolution is a religion and most of what has been posted supports and reinforces that assertion. Teasing out the beliefs of the religious and scientific-minded from fact has not taken place in any significant way. George Murphy has thrown up his hands and decide to move on and worry about what we might do should aliens visit us, after all we want to look smart for them. I suspect that should we encounter beings superior to us, the only thing of any consequence is to call on the name of Jesus. Presenting them with cooked-up ideas that are half-baked will not further the cause of Christ. The puerile techniques of personal attacks are not likely going to convince any aliens of how smart we are. As Christians, our worry is not making sure people think we are smart, it is holding up the name of Jesus.

I have not posted for a couple of months, but have been keeping abreast of the "debate." It is clear that most, if not all of you, do not have a working knowledge of recent and ancient history. Needless to say you do not know why or how anything from the Bible fits in with recorded history and pre-history. If you do not believe me, then answer when the Flood of Noah took place and why from an historical point of view. Do you know what major event took place at exactly the same time wiping out a culture a bit south of the Black Sea? Do you know what happened in what is now Pakistan or on the island of Bahrain at that time? Do you know what physical event caused the Flood of Noah? Do you know what the results were? Do you know what happened in Sumer and Akkad before Abram left Ur? Do you know what the results were of that event? More importantly, do you know why it is not true that the Book of Genesis is a rehash of pagan stories? Do you know the biological results on living things from just these two events?

Confining your arguments to lines of reasoning that ignore history, philology, epigraphy, archaeology, cryptology, and a host of evidence that supplies information important to your stance. I understand that you have to start somewhere, we all do. The first thing to do if you want to have any hope of coming to an accurate, if not precise, conclusion about the Bible and science is to seek first the Kingdom of God and His Righteousness. He is the orthogonal straight-edge. Everything else is variance. The place to start is by accepting that the Bible is the direct Revelation of God to us. There are no "buts." If you do not know that, not much else matters as a Christian. Almost as important is that you will not make any progress at finding out anything that makes sense. It is true that science can be nicely done without knowing much if anything about the Bible. Chickens are able to get enough nourishment from pecking through the chicken dung and pebbles and consuming bugs and grain without being aware of much else.

Napolean won at Waterloo!!!!!

. . . and Jack is back rolling snake eyes.

[Jack777]

Thannks for your replies. :smile: