Doctrinal question for Christians

[Mike_TN]

I'm not absolutely sure this is the proper forum for this, so my apologies if it is not. My question is regarding tongues. My family and I recently began looking for a church after some problematic issues with our previous church. (a Baptist church fwiw)
We found a church where the fellow Christians there are just absolutley wonderful. The pastor is also absolutley a wonderful guy, who goes way out of his way to make himself available for guidance, help, prayer....whatever.
The dilemma, and I'm sure it's been brought up before, is speaking in tongues. This church is very involved in tongues, and honestly I don't know what to think. After agonizing over this in prayer, I felt that the Lord was showing me that He has only one church, regardless of where I physically choose to go. I'm not one normally given to saying "the Lord spoke to me", because unless I'm absolutley sure of this, I wouldn't say it. All I can say for sure is that I wasn't thinking along those lines, and during prayer it just popped into my head. So take that for what it's worth.
My question is this: If I don't agree with or can't accept one issue within my church, (actually two issues..the second being "slain in the spirit") should I look for another church? Has anyone else wrestled with this issue? I really love the people there, feel welcomed and accepted, but I'm just not sure on this issue. (and I don't know if I ever will be) So, any advice from Christians who have been there, or have wrestled with this issue, please reply.
Thanks and God Bless!
Mike

[Solly]

Mike, I used to be in a charismatic church, and I began to have doubts about the issues you have raised. There is only one course of action. Firstly, study the Bible more, and read on both sides of the issue. Then pray about it, and ask the Lord to lead you. Wait upon him. After a year of seeking the Lord, I was not only convinced in my own mind that I could not join with such things, but he also showed me a church to go to that I had not known existed until that time. Ten years later, I am now the minister there.
Conversely, a friend of mine finds that he can stay there, although he does not get involved in those particular activities.
Above all, do they preach and live the Gospel.

[Mike_TN]

Good advice Solly. I have studied the subject some, but in all honesty, probably not enough. I have heard some arguments from both sides, and am still leaning more toward the doubting side of these practices....but I don't doubt the sincerity of the people involved. I think that most of them truly believe in these gifts.
Do they preach and live the gospel? From what I have seen they are the most dedicated, joyfully worshipful congregation I have ever been around. I would have to say that they absolutley do preach and live the gospel.
I don't think that I could join in these things, but could I, like your friend, learn to accept it as something that I can get past? I just don't know. We are very seriously considering joining this church, and if I do make that commitment, I want it to be just that, a commitment to them regardless of whether I always agree with them. Sorry if I'm rambling, and thanks so much for the reply.
God Bless!
Mike

[Socrates]

Christians should attend a church that preaches the Bible as the only basis for doctrine and the final authority about faith and practice. Personal experience or a "word of knowledge" to a charismatic leader must NEVER be allowed to override Scripture. So a practice like "slaying in the spirit" must be assesed by how it lines up with Scripture. The only example I can find is Ananias and Sapphira, who stayed slain!

About divine guidance, I recommend www.ariel.org/ff00142f.html

[Solly]

Today @ 09:04 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=128527#post128527)
Mike_TN:

Good advice Solly. I have studied the subject some, but in all honesty, probably not enough. I have heard some arguments from both sides, and am still leaning more toward the doubting side of these practices....but I don't doubt the sincerity of the people involved. I think that most of them truly believe in these gifts.
Do they preach and live the gospel? From what I have seen they are the most dedicated, joyfully worshipful congregation I have ever been around. I would have to say that they absolutley do preach and live the gospel.
I don't think that I could join in these things, but could I, like your friend, learn to accept it as something that I can get past? I just don't know. We are very seriously considering joining this church, and if I do make that commitment, I want it to be just that, a commitment to them regardless of whether I always agree with them. Sorry if I'm rambling, and thanks so much for the reply.
God Bless!
Mike

Have you spoken to the pastor/leadership? To my mind, since such activities are not salvation issues, and even the Bible doesn't say all should do all of them all the time, then they should be able to accept your position and not pressurise you about it. If there is no other church in the area, then "living the Gospel" must include their acceptance of you, as much as yours of them.
I still meet in a small prayer group that includes charismatics, but am able to live with the small amount of "tongues" praying they do, but I couldn't take part of a bigger worship service - that would go against principles that I believe are in scripture about how to behave when we gather together. if you do come to doubt completely, then it comes down to personal comfort - can you stand there while they are all "singing in the spirit"? I found that once I had broken the "fear" barrier of just standing still, hands held down, and perhaps just humming the tune, other things followed.

[Mike_TN]

I agree completely on the "slain in the spirit" issue. I really don't want to offend anyone on this issue, as I have a friend who I know to be a dedicated, consistent, solid servant of the Lord, who swears this happened to him and that it was real. Once again, I don't doubt the sincerity of his belief. I guess the main thing that comes to mind is that God isn't the author of confusion, and I sure see an awful lot of confusion on these issues. Thanks for the link, and I will continue reading that now.
Thanks and God Bless!
Mike

[Undomiel]

I believe in the gifts of the spirit and think they have their place in our time, however, I don't personally speak in tongues. I attended a church where speaking in tongues was an option, not a sign of your salvation, so I was free to worship how I wanted without feeling isolated by my differences. Some people spoke in tongues, some didn't, and none of us had a second thought about it. Perhaps, if you are that uncomfortable, you might think about finding a non-denominational church that doesn't stress speaking in tongues as much. That way you can enjoy the service without feeling pressured to perform or behave in a certain way.

[Mike_TN]

Solly,
I have spoken with a good friend who is an elder in the church. He told me that there are many members who disagree with the tongues issue. They don't consider it a matter of salvation either, and truthfully they don't speak in tongues that much. One instance comes to mind though, a time when the pastor said for everyone to pray in a tongue, and almost everyone did. This caused a great deal of confusion for me, because it is my understanding that there is supposed to be a certain "order" regarding tongues and interpretation.
I do intend to discuss this with the pastor. If we do decide to join, a meeting with the pastor is required, I imagine to discuss issues like this, and service in the church...etc
God Bless!
Mike

[Mike_TN]

Undomiel, I haven't ever felt pressured. The church is alot like what you described. No one is required to do these things, and I've never encountered anyone being judgemental of my choice to not participate in tongues or other things.
Solly, There are lots of churches in my area....countless churches. I just don't feel as welcome in the ones I have visited as I do here. I know it's not all about me, and I don't want to be self-serving,but it sure makes for a much better worship/learning environment when you truly feel welcomed and not just allowed to be there.

[joelkaki]

I would not stay in such a church personally, just because I believe so many dangers can come from charismatic theology. If you really want to get a good picture of the charismatic movement, then I would suggest getting John MacArthur's book, Charismatic Chaos. It really can show many of the errors there.

Joel

[Bill the Cat]

Today @ 12:50 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=128787#post128787)
joelkaki:

I would not stay in such a church personally, just because I believe so many dangers can come from charismatic theology. If you really want to get a good picture of the charismatic movement, then I would suggest getting John MacArthur's book, Charismatic Chaos. It really can show many of the errors there.

Joel

I am a charismatic and I can assure you that there is nothing to fear from these things. I can also say that there is no need to feel "left out" if you do not experience, (nor have a desire to experience) them. The preacher was also quite wrong for his command for everyone to talk in tongues. No man can force the gifts of the Spirit, whether they be pneumatika or charismata, on another, nor can he command them to be displayed. Definitely talk to him, but don't be afraid of the "tongues bit" or being slain in the Spirit. I have had it happen to me a few times, and it's not something that is forced.

[Jaltus]

I think the easy/quick asnwer is simply this:

Biblically, we know tongues is a gift of the Spirit and has been utilized by many Christians. Historically, we know thaty not all Christians speak in tongues. Biblically, we nkow that tongues is not a sign of salvation, but that love is.

Thus, there is nothing to rule out tongues, but nothing to require them either.

[Bill the Cat]

Today @ 01:53 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=128865#post128865)
Jaltus:

I think the easy/quick asnwer is simply this:

Biblically, we know tongues is a gift of the Spirit and has been utilized by many Christians. Historically, we know thaty not all Christians speak in tongues. Biblically, we nkow that tongues is not a sign of salvation, but that love is.

Thus, there is nothing to rule out tongues, but nothing to require them either.

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Jaltus, have some pearls. Great answer!!

[Mike_TN]

I think i may have mispoken on what exactly the pastor said regarding everyone speaking in tongues. It has been some time since this happened. After asking my wife (who remembers everything anyone ever said, especially me :teeth: ) What he actually said was something like "Everyone can feel free to speak in a tongue". Or something to that effect.

[johnnybanano]

Hey Everybody,

I am going to start a thread on charismatics and tongues and whatnot. I would like to see both Solly and Bill the Cat there if you guys have the time. Solly, I am interested in hearing why you were not able to stay in a church that spoke in tongues and what your opinion on the matter is. Bill, I would like you to add what you can about charismatic theology as far as tongues and such goes.

The thread can be found here (http://theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6419)

Thanks

Love and Respect