Do We Deserve Love And Understanding From Our Heavenly Father?

[seer]

Since God created us one would think that He would love and understand us. Even in our weakness. I mean we get love and understanding from our earthly fathers. Even when we screw up.

[infide]

Since God created us one would think that He would love and understand us. Even in our weakness. I mean we get love and understanding from our earthly fathers. Even when we screw up.

I understand what you mean and i think I agree, though I wonder what the reformed camp and classical arminians would think of the word "deserve" being used here. Does the fall remove God's moral obligation to care for His creation? its hard to see how it does. Just as we know God cannot commit sin or evil, neither can He sin via omission.

otoh, it seems that there is a limit to which humans can curse God and sin against Him to where God removes His protection and blessing and then disciplines.

Thinking rightly, though, this is still love and understanding. As it says in Hebrews, those whom He loves He disciplines (12:6).

peace,
jd

[seer]

I understand what you mean and i think I agree, though I wonder what the reformed camp and classical arminians would think of the word "deserve" being used here. Does the fall remove God's moral obligation to care for His creation? its hard to see how it does. Just as we know God cannot commit sin or evil, neither can He sin via omission.

otoh, it seems that there is a limit to which humans can curse God and sin against Him to where God removes His protection and blessing and then disciplines.

Thinking rightly, though, this is still love and understanding. As it says in Hebrews, those whom He loves He disciplines (12:6).

peace,
jd

Yes, I was thinking that. I mean He must consider our weaken state after the fall. Our eartly fathers do not stop loving us when we mess up. And does my son "deserve" my love?

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Do We Deserve Love And Understanding From Our Heavenly Father? No. The problem is indeed with the word "deserve."

[seer]

Do We Deserve Love And Understanding From Our Heavenly Father? No. The problem is indeed with the word "deserve."

Does my son deserve my love? If yes - how is it different with God? I mean to deserve simply means to be worthy of. Is my son by reason of his position to me, and by his nature, worthy of my love? Are we not all God's offspring? Made in His image? Isn't that inherent worth? Doesn't that make us worthy? Or are you suggesting that Christ died for the worthless?

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Does my son deserve my love? If yes - how is it different with God?So tell us, does your son deserve your love? Or do you have a God given duty to provide it? Or perhaps just an irresistible desire to provide it? Or maybe something else? Don't make me answer such questions if you think you know what the right answer is.

[seer]

So tell us, does your son deserve your love? Or do you have a God given duty to provide it? Or perhaps just an irresistible desire to provide it? Or maybe something else? Don't make me answer such questions if you think you know what the right answer is.

I edited the above post. Check it out...

[infide]

Yes, I was thinking that. I mean He must consider our weaken state after the fall. Our eartly fathers do not stop loving us when we mess up. And does my son "deserve" my love?

I understand the apprehension by some over the idea that humans would deserve something. It brings up all these feelings that an entitlement society invokes. People believing that they deserve a new mercedes, or a 6000 sq. ft. house. On the other hand, one thing our country does right is that it affirms that people, by virtue of being created in the image of God, deserve basic rights. The idea is not simply one of law, but one of theology.

To deserve something means that we are found worthy of it or we have earned it. To say either without considering Christ would seem to fall short of the Christian message somewhere. Though humankind are at one time enemies of God, even Christ our Lord commands us to love our enemies. But perhaps that is where the confusion lies. it is not that humanity is deserving or that it has earned something, necessarily, but that humanity is loved. We are loved not because we were made, but because God made us in His image.

Like with your son. He isnt loved by you simply because he was born. He is loved because he was born to you, with your characteristics, in your image. Your love for your son, in that sense, is this same grace that we talk about from God.

Or at least at first glance.

peace,
jd

[Teallaura]

Do We Deserve Love And Understanding From Our Heavenly Father?
*emphasis mine

No, because we haven't (and cannot) earn His love. Deserve implies that we have earned the privilege in some manner - which is impossible. We cannot be good enough to earn entry into the presence of God - how much less must we be capable of earning His great love on our own merit?

Children, likewise, don't deserve the love of a parent - it's not something they are entitled to (worthy of - borrowing from Infide). It is something the parent gives of his or her own free volition. That it is a natural response to the child probably is reflective of God's love for us - He loves us because of what He has made us to be (not of our own merit) - created beings created in His own image, just as a child comes from the parents in their 'image' (lookie, your nose, my toes!).

But an infant hasn't earned any privilege - it's simply granted because they are ours. Likewise, we are His - and He grants us His love, mercy, understanding and grace - we don't earn any of it. We are uniquely valuable, because He values us - but we are not valuable of our own worth. Like paper money, the value is imparted, not intrinsic.

Given our rebelliousness, the logical follow up question - 'Should God love us' - is sadly easy to answer - no. We act like enemies, not children, far more often than we care to acknowledge. God chooses to love His enemies (unfortunately, that's us) and teaches us the same. But on a purely pragmatic basis, the horrible pain we put Him through isn't conducive to a "should" - the better question would be 'why does He love us despite what we are?' Myself, I doubt I'll ever really understand that one... it just seems too big for my tiny little mind.

[Gabby]

Do parents deserve to be loved by their children?

[Teallaura]

Do parents deserve to be loved by their children?You've turned it around. The answer may be yes or no, depending on the parents (a big resounding no for abusive parents) since parents actually have a role which would allow them to 'earn' the love of a child - or be worthy of it in how well they perform their duties.

I agree with Theonomy - the problem is with the word 'deserve'.

[GoBahnsen]

Since God created us one would think that He would love and understand us. Even in our weakness. I mean we get love and understanding from our earthly fathers. Even when we screw up.In one sense I'm not surprised at how you equate God too much with earthly fathers, since I find that you mostly write posts that reflect a rationlistic flavor. First of all we're not all God's children and you implied that we are by calling Him our heavenly father.

Jesus told his rejectors that their father was the devil and his will they do. We are not born children of God, but many are adopted and made sons and daughters. I'll leave it at that for now, since others have gone after the word deserved.

It's good to have you back seer. Don't think I'm jumping on you. You're one of my favorite liberals :smile: .

[seer]

In one sense I'm not surprised at how you equate God too much with earthly fathers, since I find that you mostly write posts that reflect a rationlistic flavor. First of all we're not all God's children and you implied that we are by calling Him our heavenly father.

Jesus told his rejectors that their father was the devil and his will they do. We are not born children of God, but many are adopted and made sons and daughters. I'll leave it at that for now, since others have gone after the word deserved.

It's good to have you back seer. Don't think I'm jumping on you. You're one of my favorite liberals :smile: .


Liberal? Hehe...

But, we are all God's offspring:

Acts 17:

27that they should seek God, in the hope that they might feel after him and find him. Yet he is not far from each one of us,
28: for `In him we live and move and have our being'; as even some of your poets have said, `For we are indeed his offspring.'
29: Being then God's offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, a representation by the art and imagination of man.

By acts of creation God is the Father of us all. Like in the Sermon on the Mount when Christ tells the crowds of their heavenly Father. A mixed crowd to be sure. And as we have discussed in the past - God often called particluar generations in Israel His children - the same children that were lost in the end. But spiritually - that is a different story. And calling men the children of the Devil is no more literal than Christ calling Peter Satan. At least not in the physical sense...

[jason]

Since God created us one would think that He would love and understand us. Even in our weakness. I mean we get love and understanding from our earthly fathers. Even when we screw up.
Yes of course we do.

The problem is that I think you may be confusing softheaded indulgence with understanding. And softheaded indulgence is really a form of hatred for your offspring not love.

Jason

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Does my son deserve my love? If yes - how is it different with God? I mean to deserve simply means to be worthy of. Is my son by reason of his position to me, and by his nature, worthy of my love?What do you say about that?
Are we not all God's offspring? Made in His image? Isn't that inherent worth?In society I think that's a perfectly adequate reason to say that we are all equal, but then, the fact that human sinners are basically equal with one another doesn't show that we are worthy of God's love.
Doesn't that make us worthy? Or are you suggesting that Christ died for the worthless?I haven't suggested anything other than that we are not worthy of God's love. By bringing Christ's death into it, it's clear that you are now talking about not just love in general, but loves that self-sacrifices and saves. And we definitely don't deserve that.

Out of curisosity I did a quick search for the term "worthless."

Romans 3:12, "All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

[seer]

Romans 3:12, "All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

So Christ died for worthless beings?

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Romans 3:12, "All have turned away, they have together become worthless; there is no one who does good, not even one."

So Christ died for worthless beings?You're full of questions and no answers!

I said that we don;t deserve God's love, as it is now clear that you mean God's saving love. You ask whether or not a son deserves his father's love, and now you repeat another question, which I did respond to before, albeit perhaps not as you would have like.

It is now time for you to answer instead of continually ask. DO we deserve God's love? Does a son who has turned away deserve his father's love? Well? Let's hear your side!

[FlimFlamboyant]

(Rom 5:6-8) For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Is an ungodly sinner worthy of God's love? Nope. Does God love us anyway? Yep.