The answer the Arminian can't question

[themuzicman]

12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned-- 13 for before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even over those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. 15 But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Again, the gift of God is not like the result of the one man's sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification. 17 For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man, how much more will those who receive God's abundant provision of grace and of the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ. 18 Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.


(12) Adam[break]Christ
Sin through Adam[break]-
Death through sin[break]-
All died[break]Justification for many
(14)Death reigned[break]righteousness reigns for those who receive the gift
(18)1 tresspass=death to all men[break]1 act of righteousness=justification for all men
(19)1 disobedience=many sinners[break]1 obedience=many made righteous


Thus, we see that the tresspass is in some ways parallel to Christ's gift, Paul goes out of his way to say that they are NOT alike!

And the most significant difference is that Adam's sin brought death too all men, and all sin, but justification come to all men, but only those who receive it are saved.

Like it or not, it difference is still those who choose to receive, and not those whom God chooses.

Michael

[Kevin Wayne]

The question still had to do with "fundamental" differences in each person, which I still maintain that's not correct.

[Ormly]

You all make it as if God created man just to save him. That's short thinking in my book. Redemption is a poor starting point for trying to understand what God had in mind.

[johnnybanano]

You all make it as if God created man just to save him. That's short thinking in my book. Redemption is a poor starting point for trying to understand what God had in mind.

Imagine God creating something that didn't need him.

[7thangel]

(12) Adam[break]Christ
Sin through Adam[break]-
Death through sin[break]-
All died[break]Justification for many
(14)Death reigned[break]righteousness reigns for those who receive the gift
(18)1 tresspass=death to all men[break]1 act of righteousness=justification for all men
(19)1 disobedience=many sinners[break]1 obedience=many made righteous


Thus, we see that the tresspass is in some ways parallel to Christ's gift, Paul goes out of his way to say that they are NOT alike!

And the most significant difference is that Adam's sin brought death too all men, and all sin, but justification come to all men, but only those who receive it are saved.

Like it or not, it difference is still those who choose to receive, and not those whom God chooses.

Michael

As colossians said: Because they were created thus way.

.

[lee_merrill]

As colossians said: Because they were created this way.
Yes, and "God chose the weak," and who made them weak? People don't usually make themselves weak of their own accord, God does this, he chooses them, and they choose him, because they need him, because of their weakness, brought about by God.

Blessings,
Lee

P.S. Cute title for this thread, by the way, Michael...

[Colossians]

God's choosing is merely a description as it relates to time. It is not at the highest level of understanding.

God's person is God's person unchanging outside of time. Within (part of) such person is the complete Body of Christ, which has always been there.

Inside time, we are simply witnessing a reconciliation of the 'ledger' of Outside Time vs Inside Time. Everyone who is chosen to be saved, is chosen because they are (already), outside of time, part of the eternal unchanging person of God.

So you can only come to a proper conclusion on predestination if you examine it from top down (eternal first, then time realm). Not the other way around, which most are doing on this site.

[johnnybanano]

It is not at the highest level of understanding.




The highest level of understanding, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, yet the world did not understand him.

P.S. If God is unchanging because he's eternal, and we're going to be eternal, that's going to be one happenin' eternity!

Do you tell people that when you share the gospel? That we'll be in the presence of a static God for all eternity, who we are worshipping day and night, but who never responds to our worship?

It can't help them want eternal life with God too much. But then again, I guess they don't really need any help. . .right?

[Xmansmommy]

The highest level of understanding, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world. He was in the world, yet the world did not understand him.

P.S. If God is unchanging because he's eternal, and we're going to be eternal, that's going to be one happenin' eternity!

Do you tell people that when you share the gospel? That we'll be in the presence of a static God for all eternity, who we are worshipping day and night, but who never responds to our worship?

It can't help them want eternal life with God too much. But then again, I guess they don't really need any help. . .right?

Daniel, why would they have any choice in eternity when they don't even have it in this life? :wink:

[johnnybanano]

Daniel, why would they have any choice in eternity when they don't even have it in this life? :wink:

Indeed