Are all men moral beings?

[7thangel]

If some men knows between good and evil, and yet chooses evil, are they still moral beings?

[Nang]

If some men knows between good and evil, and yet chooses evil, are they still moral beings?

Yes, indeed.

The fact that all persons are created in the image of God makes all souls moral agents, having cause and effect to work either good or bad.

Unbelievers willfully perform moral wickedness because they are all enslaved to serving Satan; therefore, they are accountable to God for their sins and lack of righteous morality.

Nang

[7thangel]

Yes, indeed.

The fact that all persons are created in the image of God makes all souls moral agents, having cause and effect to work either good or bad.

Unbelievers willfully perform moral wickedness because they are all enslaved to serving Satan; therefore, they are accountable to God for their sins and lack of righteous morality.

Nang

You mean morality as "having cause and effect to work either good or bad." But then you speak of other men and Satan, being moral but "lack of righteous morality." Your thought seems incoherrent, especially if you meant "lacking righteous morality" as inability to cause and effect to work good;" since then it makes other men and satan not really moral because they can cause and effect to work only bad.

.

[Nang]

You mean morality as "having cause and effect to work either good or bad." But then you speak of other men and Satan, being moral but "lack of righteous morality."


When Adam ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, he gained moral knowledge of both good and bad.







Your thought seems incoherrent, especially if you meant "lacking righteous morality" as inability to cause and effect to work good;" since then it makes other men and satan not really moral because they can cause and effect to work only bad.

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It is not a question as to whether the wicked are moral, or not, but a question as to whether their morals align with the righteous morals (Law) of Holy God.

You seem to be assuming there is no such thing as bad morals.

Reprobates exercise bad morals; not because they do not know bad from good, but because that is their only ability.

Sinners are only inclined to live morally bad.

Sinners are incapable of choosing to live morally good; for even the "good" that they think they choose to do, is considered filthy in the eyes of God.

Nang

[Bernie]

I have to agree with 7th angel, Nang.

"It is not a question as to whether the wicked are moral, or not, but a question as to whether their morals align with the righteous morals (Law) of Holy God."

I think there is a legitimate question of whether the wicked, by whatever definition you intend, are truly able to choose good. I assume you to be Calvinist by your replies [forgive if I'm wrong], and while I believe strongly in sovereign grace (not Calvinism), have never understood how my Calvinist brethren think on matters like this.

If one is truly sufficient to make moral choices, then that person must be spiritually alive in some real sense. To have the capability to choose between right and wrong, both right (truth) and wrong (falsity) must be present to choose between. Both these qualities must present themselves in the intellect of the chooser, and I believe that both qualities--good AND evil--exist simultaneously in the spirit of every human. This is the only coherent, plausible explanation that I can see to explain human experience.

To recognize good in any measure necessitates an alignment of some inner quality with God, and the same is true for the recognition of evil--this capacity is necessarily inherent. The notion of one human being wholly cleansed in spirit and another wholly dead seems illogical.

[.Mr.White.Socks]

Unbelievers willfully perform moral wickedness because they are all enslaved to serving Satan; therefore, they are accountable to God for their sins and lack of righteous morality.Nang

Accountable, yes. Responsible? I don't think so.

I differentiate between responsibility and accountability.

Maverick

[lotrfan85]

If some men knows between good and evil, and yet chooses evil, are they still moral beings?


Of course! The mere ability to choose either good or evil makes man a moral agent. According to Lewis, all men "have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it" (Mere Christianity 8). He dubs this sense of right and wrong as "the Moral Law" or "the Law of Human Nature" (4). Now the question is, what do you mean by 'moral beings?' Are you referring to people with the ability to choose right or wrong or are you asking whether or not people can still be 'good' even if they choose evil?

[7thangel]

Of course! The mere ability to choose either good or evil makes man a moral agent. According to Lewis, all men "have this curious idea that they ought to behave in a certain way, and cannot really get rid of it" (Mere Christianity 8). He dubs this sense of right and wrong as "the Moral Law" or "the Law of Human Nature"

There are things that your answer make it unsound. First, we knew that a when a person knows what is evil and still does it, he is more worthy of punishment. And actually, they are more evil. Secondly, as you seem to imply, our knowledge does not at all control our will. So what is the point of arguing and debating to lead others on our side, and then judging who disagree as foolish, when we know that our knowledge is not in control of our will?

Biblically, anyone who knows good and does not, to him is sin. And if, as you said, the person cannot cotrol his will to act according to his knowledge, I guess he/she is more evil. From which will you lean your trust on a person?

(4). Now the question is, what do you mean by 'moral beings?' Are you referring to people with the ability to choose right or wrong or are you asking whether or not people can still be 'good' even if they choose evil?

You seem to tell me that because humans have consciousness of evil and good, they are then moral beings, in spite of willing evil or good. However, what good is a human being who is genius but a tyrant? Or what is my care if my friend is a moron if he is meek, and jolly?

Will you judge me immoral if I prefer my dog to live rather than Hitler, who you say is a moral being?

[7thangel]

You seem to be assuming there is no such thing as bad morals.
Nang

I always thought that moral is synonymous to "good." So how you come to me is that it seems you are convincing me that there are bad "good?" There are no such things as "bad good," all good are good.