Christians Don't Sin

[Soyeong]

I've also seen Christians go to the opposite extreme and claim that we sin continuously, but I don't think either of them have it right. Christians are set free from our sin nature, not in the sense that we no longer have it, but in the sense that it is no longer our master. We are set free from one master to come under a new master in service to God to live in obedience to His commands. I understand statements, such as 1 John 3:6, about Christians not sinning to be talking about intentional sin. If we love God, we are in Christ, and Christ is in us, then how can we willfully choose to transgress His law? If we realize that doing in sinful, then we should become convicted and refrain from doing it. To know that something is sinful and to do it anyway is an act of rebellion against God. How can we say we know God if we live in rebellion to Him?

[Christianbookworm]

Yeah, how does continuous sinning make sense? That you could always be doing something even better than what you are doing right now???

[Soyeong]

A recent thread asking how long you can go without sinning:

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/forum...6029663.0.html

[KingsGambit]

When I was in college, there was a fairly notorious itinerant preacher named "Brother Jed" who would come by a few times a year. He claimed that he had not sinned since 1969. However, I could see clear evidence to the contrary with his false judgments of people. One example was how he once yelled at a male and female walking to class together, accusing them of fornication... when they were actually a brother and sister.

[Christianbookworm]

Reading the thread. How can you sin while dreaming??? You aren't responsible for anything that happens in them.

[Christianbookworm]

When I was in college, there was a fairly notorious itinerant preacher named "Brother Jed" who would come by a few times a year. He claimed that he had not sinned since 1969. However, I could see clear evidence to the contrary with his false judgments of people. One example was how he once yelled at a male and female walking to class together, accusing them of fornication... when they were actually a brother and sister.

Huh. Lying and hypocrisy? Pride? Sins of the heart vs sins of the flesh?

[Soyeong]

This is a very murky issue. As you know, some Christians sin frequently and are stubborn to admit it (Thomas Kinkaide is an example that comes to mind, but there are many others), while some non-believers don't have anything approximating a "pattern of ongoing sin" because they're naturally kind and considerate people. When the latter group sins (for example, loses one's temper, cheats on spouse, etc), they feel remorse and fess up. There are many examples of these kinds of people.

There's so much overlap between these groups as to create no clear distinction between "Christians who sin" and "nonbelievers who are sinners." Generally speaking, we all "sin" the same amount, and Christians aren't any better at feeling remorse and apologizing to those they have hurt.

I have no idea what what being naturally kind an considerate people as to do with no having a pattern of ongoing sin.

[Cerebrum123]

Reading the thread. How can you sin while dreaming??? You aren't responsible for anything that happens in them.

Actually, I've been able to control a few dreams once in them. Although, I can't think of any time that I did anything other than say fly around, or similar.

[Christianbookworm]

Actually, I've been able to control a few dreams once in them. Although, I can't think of any time that I did anything other than say fly around, or similar.

Well, yes there is lucid dreaming, but I don't know how one could sin in it. Create a sinful fantasy? Why?

[whag]

I've also seen Christians go to the opposite extreme and claim that we sin continuously, but I don't think either of them have it right. Christians are set free from our sin nature, not in the sense that we no longer have it, but in the sense that it is no longer our master. We are set free from one master to come under a new master in service to God to live in obedience to His commands. I understand statements, such as 1 John 3:6, about Christians not sinning to be talking about intentional sin.

Please give an example of "unintentional" sin.

If we love God, we are in Christ, and Christ is in us, then how can we willfully choose to transgress His law? If we realize that doing in sinful, then we should become convicted and refrain from doing it. To know that something is sinful and to do it anyway is an act of rebellion against God. How can we say we know God if we live in rebellion to Him?

This doesn't really clarify anything. What constitutes willful rebellion vs. unintentional rebellion? *scratches head*

[whag]

I have no idea what what being naturally kind an considerate people as to do with no having a pattern of ongoing sin.

I have no idea what you mean by willful rebellion vs. unintentional rebellion. Let's start there and weave discussion of our treatment of one another into the discussion from there.

[Yttrium]

Yeah, how does continuous sinning make sense? That you could always be doing something even better than what you are doing right now???

I saw one Calvinist point of view in the previous forums that basically concluded we're all living in continuous sin. The idea was that humans are all complete scum and worthy of eternal agony in Hell, but God preselects certain people to be saved through grace. Sounded like a pretty depressing outlook to me.

[Soyeong]

Please give an example of "unintentional" sin.

Basically doing something without consciously being aware that what you were doing was in violation of God's law. This can range from simply being ignorant of all of God's laws, to having a conversation with someone and realizing afterward that it had crossed the line into gossip, to not realizing that pepperoni pizza that you ate contains pork.

This doesn't really clarify anything. What constitutes willful rebellion vs. unintentional rebellion? *scratches head*

If you know that something is wrong and you do it anyway, that is a different sort of action than doing something wrong without realizing it.

[whag]

Basically doing something without consciously being aware that what you were doing was in violation of God's law. This can range from simply being ignorant of all of God's laws, to having a conversation with someone and realizing afterward that it had crossed the line into gossip, to not realizing that pepperoni pizza that you ate contains pork.

That renders your phrase "willful rebellion" meaningless. The term rebellion alone will do. As for the above offenses, nice try. Christians sin more blatantly than engaging in unintentional gossip and eating porky pepperoni (is that even a sin, dude? LOL). The whole point of the thread is that Christians sin knowingly--something your post seems to object to:

If we love God, we are in Christ, and Christ is in us, then how can we willfully choose to transgress His law? If we realize that doing in sinful, then we should become convicted and refrain from doing it. To know that something is sinful and to do it anyway is an act of rebellion against God. How can we say we know God if we live in rebellion to Him?

That question clarifies nothing.

If you know that something is wrong and you do it anyway, that is a different sort of action than doing something wrong without realizing it.

I understand that. I don't understand your attempt to distinguish "unwillful rebellion" (e.g., bacon eating, ignorance of specific laws, etc.) from "willful rebellion," which you're coming awfully close to saying Christians can't possibly commit. Quite obviously, very many do commit such sins, and that's why it's a quandary. That's why it's shocking to Christians whenever a pastor scandal occurs. Thus, none of what you said sheds any light on this issue, IMHO.

[Christianbookworm]

Basically doing something without consciously being aware that what you were doing was in violation of God's law. This can range from simply being ignorant of all of God's laws, to having a conversation with someone and realizing afterward that it had crossed the line into gossip, to not realizing that pepperoni pizza that you ate contains pork.



If you know that something is wrong and you do it anyway, that is a different sort of action than doing something wrong without realizing it.

We are not under the Old Covenant. Also, unclean =/= sin.