Sacrificial Love, Agape Love

[mentored1]

Hey folks...

The highest form of love mentioned in Scripture, AFAIK, is the self-sacrificial love of Christ: in Greek the AGAPE love. Assuming that Jesus represented the manifestation of this love, the Love of God for Man, in his life and death for the redemption of man; and assuming that a Christian's life is intended to follow this example and love selflessly the question I pose is thus:

What becomes of the individual personality the closer they get to reaching the type of Love that Christ demonstrates? Is the goal for a Christian to be absorbed, emptied of individuality, into God? Or on earth into his Love for God and overflowing to his neighbors?

If the individual is retained how can self-sacrificing love, the emptying of self, be achieved? If the individual is not retained and is intended to be 'sacrified' to God and to others then is the vision of the Biblical future one of an undifferentied spiritual multitude - a 'oneness', 'singularity', etc?

Take care; appreciate your thoughts! :demure:

[mentored1]

Wow.... Overwhelming response... :stunned:

Alright... Love is the central theme of the Christian Gospel and nobody has a point to discuss here? What gives? Is this a testament to the state of Christianity today?

Maybe that'll stir up some responses... :poke:

[Darth Executor]

Wow.... Overwhelming response... :stunned:

Alright... Love is the central theme of the Christian Gospel and nobody has a point to discuss here? What gives? Is this a testament to the state of Christianity today?

Maybe that'll stir up some responses... :poke:

You might be interested in this:

http://www.tektonics.org/whatis/whatlove.html

[NeilUnreal]

The relationship between oneness and manyness is one of the central mysteries of existence. There is no rational resolution.

As D. T. Suzuki said:

"The Supreme Wisdom is the Oneness of things;
The Supreme Compassion is the Manyness of things."


-Neil

[John from Ebla]

Hey folks...

The highest form of love mentioned in Scripture, AFAIK, is the self-sacrificial love of Christ: in Greek the AGAPE love. Assuming that Jesus represented the manifestation of this love, the Love of God for Man, in his life and death for the redemption of man; and assuming that a Christian's life is intended to follow this example and love selflessly the question I pose is thus:

What becomes of the individual personality the closer they get to reaching the type of Love that Christ demonstrates? Is the goal for a Christian to be absorbed, emptied of individuality, into God? Or on earth into his Love for God and overflowing to his neighbors?

If the individual is retained how can self-sacrificing love, the emptying of self, be achieved? If the individual is not retained and is intended to be 'sacrified' to God and to others then is the vision of the Biblical future one of an undifferentied spiritual multitude - a 'oneness', 'singularity', etc?

Take care; appreciate your thoughts! :demure:

The world is full of individual personalities that contribute to how the world is today- thus we can see evil in the world. So does evil exist? You would have to say yes because we can see it- but is that the reality of what is? E.g. we can see darkness, but really “darkness” is just the absence of light. If we were to only have the "singularity' of light, we would not see darkness- so we know darkness exists in the absence of light.

The same can be said for evil, God is love and it is in the absence of God that evil exist, but if God is the indwelling and controlling factor of life (1Cor15-28) there would be no individual personality, but only the 'oneness', 'singularity' of God. Meaning people cannot retain the own, but renew or change to the 'oneness', 'singularity' of God, and from what we can see the balance is strongly in favour of people retaining the own.

Yes the Biblical future one of an undifferentiated spiritual multitude 'oneness' 'singularity-when the tares will be separated from the wheat and God will be all (1Cor15-28)

PS How does cosmic time relate to your time. If you die cosmic time remain the same.(Your response in the other was not realy a refute of what l said )

Kind Regards
John From Ebla

[David Hayward]

You should find the book "New Seeds of Contemplation" by Thomas Merton is relevant.

[mentored1]

You might be interested in this:

http://www.tektonics.org/whatis/whatlove.html

Hey Darth...

I read that article a while ago but it was a good refresher and, methinks, reaches a good level of explanation. Thanks for the referral...

Is that your personal view on what love is, biblically speaking?

Take care


You should find the book "New Seeds of Contemplation" by Thomas Merton is relevant.

Thank you Mr. H for the referral... I'll check the library and if not there then I'm sure someone from the local church may have a copy...

Thanks!

[mentored1]

Hello again John - I gotta say, I enjoy chatting with you! Very challenging stuff.

The world is full of individual personalities that contribute to how the world is today- thus we can see evil in the world. So does evil exist? You would have to say yes because we can see it- but is that the reality of what is? E.g. we can see darkness, but really “darkness” is just the absence of light. If we were to only have the "singularity' of light, we would not see darkness- so we know darkness exists in the absence of light.

Hmmm.... :demure:

Do we see evil though? I tend to think we see the consequences of action... But where and how do those consequences reach an undesirable, and thus evil, status? Without some measure or rule (i.e. commandments) to what is evil referred?

:shrug: I don't know if I can say that I agree with the 'darkness exists in the absence of light' idea... Even if I shut out all light and sit in a dark closet the only reason I know it is dark is because I know what light is. That is, I know what the idea or concept of light is - the presence of it at that moment cannot be my reference. I think both are needed - at least in an idea or memory of light. The duality seems inescapable. Thus, it seems, is the problem with good and evil.

Yes the Biblical future one of an undifferentiated spiritual multitude 'oneness' 'singularity-when the tares will be separated from the wheat and God will be all (1Cor15-28)

I think this hits the point... If all multiplicity is dissolved into God's oneness it would seem a requisite for the notion that all sin (and I think tears and suffering) will be removed. So does this point to the idea that Adam & Eve (e.g. mankind) was created in singularity with God - that they did not have an individuality apart from God?

PS How does cosmic time relate to your time. If you die cosmic time remain the same.(Your response in the other was not realy a refute of what l said )

If I die - without the assumption of afterlife or not - how am I aware of such cosmic time? If I go before God then perhaps I would be aware that cosmic time continues: but if there is nothing after death then all reality - insofar as I knew it - comes to an end. I think the idea of a cosmic time is contingent on the idea that our spirits / souls continue on - that we can become conscious of "another" type of time...

Take care!

[Darth Executor]

Hey Darth...

I read that article a while ago but it was a good refresher and, methinks, reaches a good level of explanation. Thanks for the referral...

Is that your personal view on what love is, biblically speaking?

Take care


Of course. If that is what the people of the time referred to when they said love I couldn't possibly have a different view since I would simply end up lying to myself. Plus, I never was one for mushy feelings.

[Timothy Leary]

Interesting thread, but the only thing I can think of is a quote from Babylon 5.

[shunyadragon]

Hey folks...

The highest form of love mentioned in Scripture, AFAIK, is the self-sacrificial love of Christ: in Greek the AGAPE love. Assuming that Jesus represented the manifestation of this love, the Love of God for Man, in his life and death for the redemption of man; and assuming that a Christian's life is intended to follow this example and love selflessly the question I pose is thus:

What becomes of the individual personality the closer they get to reaching the type of Love that Christ demonstrates? Is the goal for a Christian to be absorbed, emptied of individuality, into God? Or on earth into his Love for God and overflowing to his neighbors?

If the individual is retained how can self-sacrificing love, the emptying of self, be achieved? If the individual is not retained and is intended to be 'sacrified' to God and to others then is the vision of the Biblical future one of an undifferentied spiritual multitude - a 'oneness', 'singularity', etc?

Take care; appreciate your thoughts! :demure:

To understand this nature of love and compassion we must look for the attributes in the different religions and the nature of existence. One worldview from the human perspective fails to achieve any degree of certainty in the nature of love and compassion in reality. The first witness is the nature of existence itself, which shows both indifference to the course of events and an involvement in the nature of things. The involvement is reflected in the apparent rebirth and resorative power in all things from the live of the universe to the individual human. The indifference is reflected in the fact that God does not interfer or step in to right wrongs or make war on evil as immagined in the anthropomorphic ancient worldview of God. These combined attributes reflect a greater nature of what would be true love and compassion than our desire for a personal relationship of a hands-on God.

In the different religions we can see these attributes reflected in their nature, but no single religion has all the attributes of God. In Christianity we see the nurturing compassion of God as reflected in the nature of the 'annointed one', the messiah. In the east we find the unknowlable, undefinable indifference of the nature of the source, the role of enlightenment in the advancement of humanity in the 'enlightened one', and the very basic teaching that you cannot fix something that is not broken, and our efforts to do so only creates more problems than it solves. Compassion in Buddhism is reflected in our awareness of the nature of existence and willing to accept the possibility that 'not to act' may be as virtuous as 'taking action' to resolve a wrong. In both religions the 'Source' exists, but they reflect different attributes of the 'Source' and not thenature of the 'Source' itself.

God is not a chess player with the white pieces,
God is the sea and we are the fishes.