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dacristoy
04-06-2015, 12:17 PM
:yipee:Ephesians 2:8
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Does a preponderance of scripture portray this gift of God to be an offer rather than a gift unless it is accepted. Is it represent itself as more of an offer until it is received.

KingsGambit
04-06-2015, 12:18 PM
Why can't both terms be used in their respective contexts?

Sparko
04-06-2015, 12:43 PM
It is a gift that is offered to all. Whether everyone accepts the gift is up to them.

dacristoy
04-07-2015, 08:19 AM
Why can't both terms be used in their respective contexts?
Would you be so kind as to illustrate?

dacristoy
04-07-2015, 08:23 AM
It is a gift that is offered to all. Whether everyone accepts the gift is up to them.

Guess what I was attempting to discuss is the physical attributes of a gift. Are there two aspects necessary to complete the mechanics of a gift. One, the offering; two, acceptance or receiving.

Sparko
04-07-2015, 08:33 AM
Guess what I was attempting to discuss is the physical attributes of a gift. Are there two aspects necessary to complete the mechanics of a gift. One, the offering; two, acceptance or receiving.in most cases yes. Especially if free will is concerned.

I mean I suppose I could somehow pay off your home and car without your approval, and that would be a gift. But you would have no free will in the matter, no choice. The bible makes it clear that choosing to receive Jesus is part of the gift.

John 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Catholicity
04-07-2015, 02:59 PM
If someone goes yo a card with 100 dollars to spend at Christmas its a gift offer. You can give it back to the person though I doubt you would. So it is with salvation. Only its better than that card at Christmas. Most of us choose never to open it or we just give it back we don't take the offered gift

dacristoy
04-07-2015, 06:32 PM
If someone goes yo a card with 100 dollars to spend at Christmas its a gift offer. You can give it back to the person though I doubt you would. So it is with salvation. Only its better than that card at Christmas. Most of us choose never to open it or we just give it back we don't take the offered gift

I think that after you proactively accept the offer, the gift is complete. What you do with it after accepting it is up to you. After all, it now belongs to you... So for this conversation we want to deal only with the OFFER, and its subsequent acceptance...

KingsGambit
04-08-2015, 09:35 AM
Would you be so kind as to illustrate?

I think both terms are really attempts to provide metaphors for God's reconciliation of man, and I think either metaphor could be more or less accurate.

dacristoy
04-10-2015, 12:11 PM
I think both terms are really attempts to provide metaphors for God's reconciliation of man, and I think either metaphor could be more or less accurate.

Which one is more accurate, which one is less accurate?

offer
verb of•fer \ˈȯ-fər, ˈš-\
: to give someone the opportunity to accept or take (something): to say that you are willing to do something
: to make (something) available : to provide or supply (something)

1gift
noun \ˈgift\
: something that is given to another person or to a group or organization
: a special ability
Full Definition of GIFT
1
: a notable capacity, talent, or endowment
2
: something voluntarily transferred by one person to another without compensation

Thoughtful Monk
04-10-2015, 03:50 PM
I think there is so much trouble in this thread differentiating between gift and offer because they are so intertwined in this context that one can not exist without the other so you can't split them or use just one word or the other.

dacristoy
04-11-2015, 10:25 AM
I think there is so much trouble in this thread differentiating between gift and offer because they are so intertwined in this context that one can not exist without the other so you can't split them or use just one word or the other.

Offer: A precursor to the giving of a gift.
Gift: That which is volitionally given by one to another.
Acceptance or rejection: That which completes and validates a gift.

Does this clarify?

Rushing Jaws
07-25-2015, 06:00 AM
in most cases yes. Especially if free will is concerned.

I mean I suppose I could somehow pay off your home and car without your approval, and that would be a gift. But you would have no free will in the matter, no choice. The bible makes it clear that choosing to receive Jesus is part of the gift.

John 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him. 12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God

John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of Godís one and only Son.## Why can it not be both, in different ways or aspects ?