Halloween for a Wiccan

[Krusader]

Exactly what does a Wiccan believe about Halloween, if anything, and do they perform any significant ceremonies on that date. Also, is the Wiccan view in any way connected to the Celtic ceremonies linked to Halloween.

[James Peter]

I can't quite remember the quote I want to use here so I'll make one up that is similar...hopefully somebody who is even geekier than I will supply the actual quote later.

"Halloween is for kids and wannabes. Real creatures of the night take the night off."

It was something vaguely similar to that anyway. From Buffy of course, probably Spike who said it?

[roddmann]

Exactly what does a Wiccan believe about Halloween, if anything, and do they perform any significant ceremonies on that date. Also, is the Wiccan view in any way connected to the Celtic ceremonies linked to Halloween.


Many Neo-Pagans, including Druids and Wiccans, trace their annual seasonal days of celebration back to Celtic times in Europe. They celebrate the most important of their four major Sabbats, Samhain, on or near OCT-31 each year.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/hallo_np.htm

[technomage]

Exactly what does a Wiccan believe about Halloween, if anything, and do they perform any significant ceremonies on that date. Also, is the Wiccan view in any way connected to the Celtic ceremonies linked to Halloween.

To be brief, we don't know what ceremonies, if any, the Druids performed on Halloween. However, our celebration involves many things, including a memorial for the years dead (similar to All saints), and the acknowledgement of the death of the God (similar to Good Friday).

I'll go into more detail tomorrow.

[tmancour]

To be brief, we don't know what ceremonies, if any, the Druids performed on Halloween. However, our celebration involves many things, including a memorial for the years dead (similar to All saints), and the acknowledgement of the death of the God (similar to Good Friday).

I'll go into more detail tomorrow.


Samhain is the Witches' New Year, when the Holly King (Horned God) takes His throne as Lord of the Dead, with the White Lady (Snow, to some) as consort, presiding over the Winter months. He reigns until May 1, when the Goddess and her consort the Oak King (the Green Man) take the throne and reign over the more active Summer months.

It is believed by many Pagans that this time of year is when the veil between the worlds is the thinnest. That is why it is easier to commune with your departed, engage in divination, and make resolutions about changes you want to see in yourself over the coming year. It is a very, very solemn occasion.

Off to trick-or-treat, now, later!

Arion the Blue
High Druid of Durham

[Richbee]

Exactly what does a Wiccan believe about Halloween, if anything, and do they perform any significant ceremonies on that date. Also, is the Wiccan view in any way connected to the Celtic ceremonies linked to Halloween.

Actually, All Hollows Eve, wasn't really linked to any Celtic beliefs, although the dates are close. In fact the tradition was started in Spain or France as I recall.

Around 6th century. (Note, like many other holidays, Christians have been accused of co-opting every pagan holiday under the moon - go figure. So many parties - so little time. "Drink and be merry for tomorrow we die..." - Isaiah)

[Richbee]

Samhain is the Witches' New Year, when the Holly King (Horned God) takes His throne as Lord of the Dead, with the White Lady (Snow, to some) as consort, presiding over the Winter months. He reigns until May 1, when the Goddess and her consort the Oak King (the Green Man) take the throne and reign over the more active Summer months.

It is believed by many Pagans that this time of year is when the veil between the worlds is the thinnest. That is why it is easier to commune with your departed, engage in divination, and make resolutions about changes you want to see in yourself over the coming year. It is a very, very solemn occasion.

Off to trick-or-treat, now, later!

Arion the Blue
High Druid of Durham

Thank you for this, and just when was this, and in ancient times, difficult to exactly say, as it was before the Gregorian calender. Any objective sources here?

[technomage]

Thank you for this, and just when was this, and in ancient times, difficult to exactly say, as it was before the Gregorian calender. Any objective sources here?

To all Wiccans and Pagans,

Clutch Cargo has registered before--and is banned under the name--Richbee. I would advise that we all place him on ignore until the moderators have time to deal with the situation.

[tmancour]

Thank you for this, and just when was this, and in ancient times, difficult to exactly say, as it was before the Gregorian calender. Any objective sources here?


It's myth and folklore, not history. Ours is not a religion of linear history -- it is a religion of cyclical myth. .Major difference, as major as the difference between orthodoxy and orthopraxy.

This is what many, if not most Wiccans celebrate today. Whence came it? Not sure. Out of someone's imagination at some time. Most tribes had a dying/reviving god myth, and a mythic reason for the seasons (such as the myth of Persephone). The important thing is that it resonates with my inner perspective, and is reflective of what I see as true: the Spring/Summer growing season is ruled by a life-bearing feminine divine energy, while the Autumn/Winter season of sleep is ruled by the masculine divine "death" energy.

Blessed Be, on this Samhain Night

Arion

[tmancour]

To all Wiccans and Pagans,

Clutch Cargo has registered before--and is banned under the name--Richbee. I would advise that we all place him on ignore until the moderators have time to deal with the situation.


Thanks for this info. It makes a difference.

Arion

[Richbee]

To all Wiccans and Pagans,

Clutch Cargo has registered before--and is banned under the name--Richbee. I would advise that we all place him on ignore until the moderators have time to deal with the situation.

Ha. Hahahaha. You keep spinning!?

:juggle:

[Durthorin]

Actually, All Hollows Eve, wasn't really linked to any Celtic beliefs, although the dates are close. In fact the tradition was started in Spain or France as I recall.

Around 6th century. (Note, like many other holidays, Christians have been accused of co-opting every pagan holiday under the moon - go figure. So many parties - so little time. "Drink and be merry for tomorrow we die..." - Isaiah)



The word Halloween is derived from the term "All Hallows Eve" which occurred on Oct. 31, the end of summer in Northwestern Europe. "All Saints Day," or "All Hallows Day" was the next Day, Nov. 1st. Therefore, Halloween is the eve of All Saints Day.
The origins of Halloween can be traced back to ancient Ireland and Scotland around the time of Christ. On Oct. 31st, the Celts celebrated the end of summer. This annual change of season and lifestyle was marked by a festival called Samhain -- pronounced 'sow-ane' and means 'end of summer.'

Around the 5th century, as the Catholic Church developed and moved into the area, instead of adding a new day to celebrate, it took over the Samhain celebration. Nov. 1st became "All Hallows Eve" where all the saints of the Catholic church were honored .


problem is for the most part the same activities as before continued, the same beliefs etc.

[Richbee]

problem is for the most part the same activities as before continued, the same beliefs etc. [/size][/font]


Absolutely. Pagans or paganism was always a thorn in the side of the Christian Church.

[Durthorin]

To all Wiccans and Pagans,

Clutch Cargo has registered before--and is banned under the name--Richbee. I would advise that we all place him on ignore until the moderators have time to deal with the situation.

Richbee.. Should have known. Thanks for the info..

Brighid Bless, Dur

[Richbee]

Richbee.. Should have known. Thanks for the info..

Brighid Bless, Dur

Who is Richbee?

A better question here would be, what is a Witch?

[Richbee]

problem is for the most part the same activities as before continued, the same beliefs etc. [/size][/font]



A little homework revealed, that the establishment of All Saints day originally was held the first Sunday after Pentecost, the date was moved to November 1st by Gregory III when he dedicated a chapel in the Basilica of St. Peter to “All the Saints.” In 835, Gregory IV permanently moved the celebration to November 1. Originally, All Saints Day was a solemn occasion, to be celebrated with a vigil spent in fasting and prayers the evening, followed by a “feast day,” a day to attend Mass and refrain from servile work.

In modern Irish Gaelic, the word samhain means “The end of summer” .

Typically Wiccans or Witches have no textual, or historical and objective source to know and discern the true facts, but no bother, some of us can and do conduct objective research into the facts that illuminate rational discourse.

No doubt most modern day Protestants or let's say, Evangelicals observe no significant meaning for November 1st. (Unless the mortgage is due.)

[technomage]

Also, is the Wiccan view in any way connected to the Celtic ceremonies linked to Halloween.

There is ... a lot more rumor than knowledge going around about what the Celts did for "Halloween." I would strongly recommend the article, REAL History of Halloween (http://www.exwitch.org/cms/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=34&page_id=95). While I was priveledged to help with much of the technical and historical information, the article comes from ex-Wiccan and ex-Pagan Christians who are trying to bring people to Christ, while also trying to counter some of the misinformation that some Christians have contributed.

[Richbee]

There is ... a lot more rumor than knowledge going around about what the Celts did for "Halloween." I would strongly recommend the article, REAL History of Halloween (http://www.exwitch.org/cms/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=34&page_id=95). While I was priveledged to help with much of the technical and historical information, the article comes from ex-Wiccan and ex-Pagan Christians who are trying to bring people to Christ, while also trying to counter some of the misinformation that some Christians have contributed.

But Wiccan is non-textual and non-historical!? :lmbo:

:rofl:

Quick Question, is the Book of Life, "non-textual" in Heaven?

:lolo:

LOL!

[Krusader]

There is ... a lot more rumor than knowledge going around about what the Celts did for "Halloween." I would strongly recommend the article, REAL History of Halloween (http://www.exwitch.org/cms/mod.php?mod=userpage&menu=34&page_id=95). While I was priveledged to help with much of the technical and historical information, the article comes from ex-Wiccan and ex-Pagan Christians who are trying to bring people to Christ, while also trying to counter some of the misinformation that some Christians have contributed.

Thanks for that reference. I agree with you that some Christians have blown the whole thing way out of proportion. And, as I said before, the stuff going on down in Mexico ( Dia del Muerto) makes the American stuff look like child's play.

[tmancour]

But Wiccan is non-textual and non-historical!? :lmbo:


Wicca is a non-text-BASED religion. As a social group, we actually read far more than Christians, on average. And while our religion doesn't emphasize history, we aren't ignorant of it. There have been many great Pagan historians.

Quick Question, is the Book of Life, "non-textual" in Heaven?

Which "Book of Life" would that be? And you know very well our cosmology doesn't include an Abrhamic "Heaven".

Hmm. You do sound like Richbee.

Arion

[Richbee]

Wicca is a non-text-BASED religion. As a social group, we actually read far more than Christians, on average. And while our religion doesn't emphasize history, we aren't ignorant of it. There have been many great Pagan historians.



Which "Book of Life" would that be? And you know very well our cosmology doesn't include an Abrhamic "Heaven".

Hmm. You do sound like Richbee.

Arion

Who did you listen to? (Do you hear voices?)

Seriously, I would like to follow-up on this, and I for one, didn't know about "All Saints" being moved to November 1st. [Actually ALL Christians are technically "saints"] Seems more of a France, Germany or Italy thingy, and I wonder if the pagans/neo-pagans of the 14th centruy were dancing with the dead or praying for or to the dead. (All Souls as well)

I'm not a RCC or Catholic, and IMO, when they are dead, they are DEAD! No sense praying for these dearly departed ones, they have all ready been judged their fate was decided.

No as for familar spirits, or demons taking on the appearance, or personality of the dead, that is a whole different matter for another time.Oh, and remembering, honoring and respecting the dearly departed, sure, why not? Certainly we are more than food for the worms?

[Geifodd]

Clutch Cargo:

No doubt most modern day Protestants or let's say, Evangelicals observe no significant meaning for November 1st. (Unless the mortgage is due.)

October 31st is celebrated by some Protestants as Reformation Day. And Guy Fawkes Day, celebrated on November 5, is also a Protestant holiday, celebrating victory over a Catholic plot to take over England. It is interesting how this time of year -- the end of October and the beginning of November -- has become a time for celebration not only for Pagans and Catholics but also for Protestants (and yes, even Satanists). It would seem that even Protestants will find an excuse to celebrate this time of year.

It's been pretty much proven that Samhain was co-opted by the Catholic church in an attempt to turn away the Pagans from their folk religions, whether you like it or not. Need a source? Go to a library and pick up most ANY book on the subject.

[tmancour]

Who did you listen to? (Do you hear voices?)

Who doesn't?


I'm not a RCC or Catholic, and IMO, when they are dead, they are DEAD! No sense praying for these dearly departed ones, they have all ready been judged their fate was decided.

We technically aren't praying for them, we are honoring them for their contribution to our lives -- both personal and genetic -- and letting their spirits know that their lives gave meaning and purpose to our own. Simple courtesy, really.


No as for familar spirits, or demons taking on the appearance, or personality of the dead, that is a whole different matter for another time.Oh, and remembering, honoring and respecting the dearly departed, sure, why not? Certainly we are more than food for the worms?

Exactly. But I find it strange: you seem to have no trouble believing in demons or "familar spirits", but you can't seem to extend that belief to ghosts? All three are universally present in human culture. Why the discrimination? You got something against Casper?

Arion

[James Peter]

But I find it strange: you seem to have no trouble believing in demons or "familar spirits", but you can't seem to extend that belief to ghosts? All three are universally present in human culture. Why the discrimination? You got something against Casper?

I'll weigh in here if thats ok, because I also am perfectly aware of the existance of angels/demons/spirits/powers (or whatever you wish to call them; created beings that exist on the supernatural/spiritual level and are in some ways between humans and God in power) but I'm not convinced by the notion of spirits in the sense of ghosts. To be honest they just don't fit into the christian world view. Our Psyche/Nefar isn't something seperate and distinct that continues to exist without our bodies; souls are not spirits. Certainly our pneuma/ruah (spirit/breath) are part of our psyche/nefar and it is our psyche/nefar which are raised on the last day... So the idea of disembodied spirits that get lost on the way to the afterlife as it were is...questionable. I think I've done a lousy job of explaining why but within the Judeo-Christian mindset ghosts really don't fit coherantly whilst demons/angels do.

[tmancour]

I'll weigh in here if thats ok, because I also am perfectly aware of the existance of angels/demons/spirits/powers (or whatever you wish to call them; created beings that exist on the supernatural/spiritual level and are in some ways between humans and God in power) but I'm not convinced by the notion of spirits in the sense of ghosts. To be honest they just don't fit into the christian world view. Our Psyche/Nefar isn't something seperate and distinct that continues to exist without our bodies; souls are not spirits. Certainly our pneuma/ruah (spirit/breath) are part of our psyche/nefar and it is our psyche/nefar which are raised on the last day... So the idea of disembodied spirits that get lost on the way to the afterlife as it were is...questionable. I think I've done a lousy job of explaining why but within the Judeo-Christian mindset ghosts really don't fit coherantly whilst demons/angels do.

Interesting. But you are arguing from the perspective of Judeo-Christian DOGMA, not Christianity (and to a lesser extent, Judaism) as it is and was actually practiced. Christian folk-religion is as replete with examples of ghosts as any other. Then there is the "Holy Ghost" issue. And I know I've heard at least a few Jewish folk-tales where ghosts were prominent.

Arion

[James Peter]

I'm talking from the perspective of their very core languages. The early church talked about the psyche having eternal life, not the pneuma. Their very language allowed them to differentiate between the two and in english we often don't respect the differences.

Of course christian folk-religion is full of stories of ghosts, lets face it the christianity of most of the dark ages was barely christian. It was just slightly tamed paganism. Beliefs that would have horrified the apostles were tolerated as long as people still turned up for Mass and paid their tithes. The same can be said of the Jews who, lets face it, indulged in quite a lot of forbidden pagan activity. Certainly many Jews and Christians have believed in ghosts/spirits but that doesn't mean that ghosts/spirits fit comfortably into the worldview - it just means people often hold illogical combinations of beliefs.

And the 'Holy Ghost' thing is all about the meaning of Ghost way back then...I don't think the 'Holy Ghost' has ever been understood as a ghost (as in Casper) rather than as a spirit in the sense of a non-physical being.