No More Stupid People!

[jpholding]

This is an item that I will upload tomorrow. Feedback is welcome.

*******


Toon in for a Change
Or, "No More Stupid People"
James Patrick Holding

The time has arrived for a change, and to explain why we'll need to lay out some background.

After some 8 years of apologetics ministry (half of it full time) it is clear that we are spending too much time dealing with the same old arguments from different people again and again and again that have been answered (and seldom if ever countered, and even then, never successfully) again and again and again. I've relished the reputation as a "mercenary" willing to take on anything within my knowledge base, no matter how foolish, but facing opponents who just stand in a straight line like the British and never move an inch to the left or right is losing its savor. There's no challenge in noting for the 765th time to the 765th different Skeptic that ie, the Gospels are biographies and so no, this or that objection, made for the 765th time, will NOT work, and realizing that I won't get any more of an answer than I did from the last 764 who said the same thing.

I recently linked to Mike Licona's response to the DVD The God Who Wasn't There and it reminded me of all my older articles from BEFORE the objections became so dully repetitive. I didn't need to do what Mike did (he even told me he understood why I gave it such short shrift!) because I have the resources done already and can just say, as I did in my response to it, "been there, done that".

The problem is that if all I do is "been there, done that" work, it wastes time and becoming nauseatingly repetitive. Rather than lose my edge to ennui, I will do something different.

Over the next few weeks and months as needed, Tekton will be reworked to become to be a more resource-oriented site with less concern for reply to persons and more concern for reply to subjects. This would NOT change one bit many sections; in fact some (like Classics) are already a perfect fit.

However, other material will be changed. Some of it will be gutted and reworked (as some will recall I did years ago with my replies to The Jury Is In; so this has precedent). Some I will end up removing to a new site I'd like to start early next year. This new site will also house my web comics (like the new Sheila Rangslinger tale) and a few other personal things. It will also be paid for out of my own pocket (though it will accept gratuities, as many web comic sites do) as a "hobby" site.

With this change comes a few new provisos which amounts to a "response policy".

* I will not reply to any persons who merely present the same old same old. I suppose the best example I can think of is Mark Smith of "jcnot4me", who I have been asked about now and then. Though Smith has a talent for using colored and different sized fonts, I have not seen a single argument on his site (within my purview of subject matter) that I have not already answered satisfactorily (whether myself or by a link). The most such people will get is an Encyclopedia blurb noting why I won't do anything on them. This also goes for "old" opponents, by the way. You know who I mean.
* An obvious exception is if said person (whoever) deigns to reply to something here on Tekton. But even then I will look for ways to act like the person doesn't exist…no need to give spoiled children attention that they crave.
* Book reviews are obviously not something that can be handled this way, though if a book also is just the same old same old…same thing. The review will say so. Period.
* As always though, I will be glad to answer specific questions via email about what anyone writes. And, if something new is presented.

If I had to condense this into one sentence, that would be, "NO MORE STUPID PEOPLE." Enough of that is enough.

[Amazing Rando]

Over the next few weeks and months as needed, Tekton will be reworked to become to be a more resource-oriented site with less concern for reply to persons and more concern for reply to subjects. This would NOT change one bit many sections; in fact some (like Classics) are already a perfect fit.


This is an outstanding idea, because your best works in my opinion (i.e. most consistent, highest quality, most valuable) are the issue- and problem-driven essays, such as those in the Tekton series.

[BronzeArcher]

You know it would be really cool if you did Coles' Notes versions of books. (No idea about copyright issues, if any.) Your site might become popular for academic study in that way.

I think a few of us would like this, so, more footnoting would be nice. I know you have plenty in some key articles but to extend that to most others would be much appreciated.

[roddmann]

This is an item that I will upload tomorrow. Feedback is welcome.

*******


Toon in for a Change
Or, "No More Stupid People"
James Patrick Holding

The time has arrived for a change, and to explain why we'll need to lay out some background.

After some 8 years of apologetics ministry (half of it full time) it is clear that we are spending too much time dealing with the same old arguments from different people again and again and again that have been answered (and seldom if ever countered, and even then, never successfully) again and again and again. I've relished the reputation as a "mercenary" willing to take on anything within my knowledge base, no matter how foolish, but facing opponents who just stand in a straight line like the British and never move an inch to the left or right is losing its savor. There's no challenge in noting for the 765th time to the 765th different Skeptic that ie, the Gospels are biographies and so no, this or that objection, made for the 765th time, will NOT work, and realizing that I won't get any more of an answer than I did from the last 764 who said the same thing.

I recently linked to Mike Licona's response to the DVD The God Who Wasn't There and it reminded me of all my older articles from BEFORE the objections became so dully repetitive. I didn't need to do what Mike did (he even told me he understood why I gave it such short shrift!) because I have the resources done already and can just say, as I did in my response to it, "been there, done that".

The problem is that if all I do is "been there, done that" work, it wastes time and becoming nauseatingly repetitive. Rather than lose my edge to ennui, I will do something different.

Over the next few weeks and months as needed, Tekton will be reworked to become to be a more resource-oriented site with less concern for reply to persons and more concern for reply to subjects. This would NOT change one bit many sections; in fact some (like Classics) are already a perfect fit.

However, other material will be changed. Some of it will be gutted and reworked (as some will recall I did years ago with my replies to The Jury Is In; so this has precedent). Some I will end up removing to a new site I'd like to start early next year. This new site will also house my web comics (like the new Sheila Rangslinger tale) and a few other personal things. It will also be paid for out of my own pocket (though it will accept gratuities, as many web comic sites do) as a "hobby" site.

With this change comes a few new provisos which amounts to a "response policy".

* I will not reply to any persons who merely present the same old same old. I suppose the best example I can think of is Mark Smith of "jcnot4me", who I have been asked about now and then. Though Smith has a talent for using colored and different sized fonts, I have not seen a single argument on his site (within my purview of subject matter) that I have not already answered satisfactorily (whether myself or by a link). The most such people will get is an Encyclopedia blurb noting why I won't do anything on them. This also goes for "old" opponents, by the way. You know who I mean.
* An obvious exception is if said person (whoever) deigns to reply to something here on Tekton. But even then I will look for ways to act like the person doesn't exist…no need to give spoiled children attention that they crave.
* Book reviews are obviously not something that can be handled this way, though if a book also is just the same old same old…same thing. The review will say so. Period.
* As always though, I will be glad to answer specific questions via email about what anyone writes. And, if something new is presented.

If I had to condense this into one sentence, that would be, "NO MORE STUPID PEOPLE." Enough of that is enough.

I just visited your website. Very nice, I don't know how my searches in the past managed to miss this treasure trove. I'll be spending serious time here in future. Many thanks!!

[Trout]

JP:
The problem is that if all I do is "been there, done that" work, it wastes time and becoming nauseatingly repetitive.

Wastes time?

As you probably know, your public discussions aren't just about the person who happens to be in front of you, there are also a great many reading along who will remain anonymous. While it may seem repetitive to you, there is a possibility that many on the sidelines are reading your responses for the first time, and in doing so, are learning some apologetic techniques that they'll be able to apply when faced with the same arguments.

While I'm not a huge fan of The Bible Answer Man, an aspect of his ministry that I applaud is his answering the same questions repeatedly. While it may be the 10,000 time he's answered it, it's the first time the seeker has heard the answer.

Perhaps you should reconsider?

[Mujibur]

JP, maybe you could deal with both the skeptic asking the question for the 765th time and the person on the sidelines who is reading the response for the first time by responding to the question with a link to a detailed answer that you have already given in the past. In that way, you could help the sceptic who genuinely wants an answer, the sideline observer who is curious how that question would be answered, and avoid having to answer again for trolls who are just trying to get under your skin.

BTW, I really like your Nutshell series. It's a great summary of your various articles on a particular topic and a great launching pad for further study if someone wants to know more. This makes it a very handy place to refer someone to. :thumb:

[gharfish]

Very good, JP !

If I may, at this time, I'd like to tell our fellows of a new technology that I have discovered that will warn the Christian apologist and/or gospel preacher when they have made more than enough of an effort with a particular individual: who have conclusively shown themselves to be completely, permanently, unwilling to consider Christianity as an option.

When a purely antagonistic, always on the offensive, stone-cold unbeliever is encountered, a *visual warning appears on your computer screen. It's brandname is "B.W.O.T. Systems" ( for big waste of time), and it frees the user of the felt need to again and again and again focus on any individual who has clearly already demonstrated they are only a pointlessly time-consuming, heels dug in deep, contact.

From the time of it's installation it is programmed to immediately warn the user to obvious "on a mission" LGM and DJ-type time-wasting head aches, and as it gathers more data, automatically fine-tuning itself with further use, it has the potential to become truly a most invaluable tool in helping the owner quickly filter-out hosts of much more subtle head gaming, who--bottom line--mean/design to actively oppose the truth, and suppress it as well for, and to...the spiritual harm of others.

The manufacturer promises that eventually you will be alerted to all the ingenuine or less obvious deceptive tactics of the kind commonly employed by (what we know are self-attesting) opponents to Christianity. As new as it is on my computer, it has learned enough to advise me to no longer mess around with "Mark Little." Thank you, "B.W.O.T. !"

Imagine; you are electronically awakened to the ABSOLUTE futilty of ever dealing again with absurd, maddening, incorrigibles--whether apostates, or hardened atheists; forever freed then to redirect to addressing the others who might actually still be open-minded and open-hearted to receiving the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ.






*additional audio warning available soon for those times when you are up late at night, posting.

[Dave G]

Will it give Jimbo a spanking?

[dizzle]

Wastes time?

As you probably know, your public discussions aren't just about the person who happens to be in front of you, there are also a great many reading along who will remain anonymous. While it may seem repetitive to you, there is a possibility that many on the sidelines are reading your responses for the first time, and in doing so, are learning some apologetic techniques that they'll be able to apply when faced with the same arguments.

While I'm not a huge fan of The Bible Answer Man, an aspect of his ministry that I applaud is his answering the same questions repeatedly. While it may be the 10,000 time he's answered it, it's the first time the seeker has heard the answer.

Perhaps you should reconsider?

I wrestled with the same feeling, but I can understand how burnt out things get. I mean I only deal with one issue but if another doofus asked me why there are no records of Jesus physically descending to earth in AD70 I just might go postal.

I did what JP did but in miniature. I wrote my Matthew 24 commentary in order to say (there are a LOT of internal bookmarks so I can link to the specific question) the answer is in there. If a person comes up with a new objection or angle, I update the commentary.

But I know JP, there will be one ignorant and unaware of it sceptic that will put a burr under his saddle, but I think doing the more complete pieces is a better idea.

I often answer questions to objections but basically I NEVER debate atheists. I have found it personally fruitless - I DO however promote POST evangelism which is sorely lacking in the Church. That is to educate the convert and therefore he is not thrown to the wolves unprepared.

[Trout]

I wrestled with the same feeling, but I can understand how burnt out things get. I mean I only deal with one issue but if another doofus asked me why there are no records of Jesus physically descending to earth in AD70 I just might go postal.

I really appreciate the work that JP does, he performs a service that few have the stomach or the patience for, and he's got a real gift for it. I'd hate to think that he'd sequester himself away from where his calling is, simply because he's tired of answering the same questions.

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear;

[dizzle]

Have you noticed how very little I post on eschatology? I find it wears my patience and makes me even nastier than I usually am. I don't think he will totally abandon it or I will have to go to his house and sing Don't Cry for me Argentina

[Shadow Phoenix]

Have you noticed how very little I post on eschatology? I find it wears my patience and makes me even nastier than I usually am. I don't think he will totally abandon it or I will have to go to his house and sing Don't Cry for me Argentina

Can we expect to hear this on PALtalk soon? (And to dot Ivo if he wants to make it a duet?)

[Trout]

Have you noticed how very little I post on eschatology? I find it wears my patience and makes me even nastier than I usually am. I don't think he will totally abandon it or I will have to go to his house and sing Don't Cry for me Argentina

Hey, I've been talking to Mormons for 23 years now, I understand how frustrating it can get, I also see how rewarding it can be and I thank God that He's given me that opportunity. I also thank God that there are those like JP who continue to fight the battle on different fronts.

[jpholding]

The varying replies here tend to illustrate the response aspect of the conundrum I'm looking for this to solve.

Some comments...


This is an outstanding idea, because your best works in my opinion (i.e. most consistent, highest quality, most valuable) are the issue- and problem-driven essays, such as those in the Tekton series.

Here's an irony. I've been working my way through the files with filenames beginning with A-F to decide what could go where and be modified (and in a few cases, deleted...because the person I was addressing is someone obscure who no longer has their response/material online; example: "eztoamuse"). The issue and problem driven essays far outnumber and outsize those addressing persons...despite what the likes of Till and Trubee would like people to think.




You know it would be really cool if you did Coles' Notes versions of books.

What are those? Like Cliff Notes?



Roddman, thanks for the good word.




While I'm not a huge fan of The Bible Answer Man, an aspect of his ministry that I applaud is his answering the same questions repeatedly. While it may be the 10,000 time he's answered it, it's the first time the seeker has heard the answer.

Oddly enough that's one of the things about BAM that makes me unable to listen to it. Especially since I know how the system works....Hank is just reading rote answers from past shows dug out by his research staff. In a sense he doesn't have to deal with it the same way I do. Not to mention he makes a six figure salary which I am sure takes the edge off the dullness. :wink: And finally, bear in mind, he only does that 5 hours a week....

That said, there is something of a difference with an online resource...unlike a radio show, the archives are immediately accessible to the user. And of course I'll always have an email link if people have questions...I do want people to learn to fish, not just eat the fish I give them. Eh, "Trout"? :wink:

I'd hate to think that he'd sequester himself away from where his calling is, simply because he's tired of answering the same questions.

Actually if anything my "calling" focus does seem to be shifting more in this direction....that's the "irrational" reason that allows me to do this....but more practically, it would fit better with a teaching-speaking orientation that's starting to emerge, and more of a the post-evang tendency as well (as Dee Dee alluded to).

Heck for all I know, even the revival of the toon habits could be key to something...that's how it usually works for me...I do stuff and later in turns out to have been critical to something good...

As it is, you allude to "first time" people...I get numerous emails from that sort, and with the vast majority, I (or Glenn) have their question answered already and the link I send them makes them deliriously happy.





JP, maybe you could deal with both the skeptic asking the question for the 765th time and the person on the sidelines who is reading the response for the first time by responding to the question with a link to a detailed answer that you have already given in the past.

That is part of the plan -- a few links to certain issues as an exemplar of how the Skeptic doesn't do his/her homework. I'm already doing this with some people....I just won't go through every jot and tittle.




Y'know, Vance, I think we're growing on you here. When you first came to TWeb I don't think you'd have ever posted something like that. :lol:




Will it give Jimbo a spanking?

The present spankings will still be around on the new site, given their format and what a waste of time jimbo is.

[BronzeArcher]

Cliff's Notes are like Coles' Notes.

You could also have suggested readings for topics, which might involve merely organizing your book reviews. I'd be willing to help out with giving article titles and so on.

[Darth Executor]

You should see the people I had to deal with in on my "vacation" from tweb. I think I'll nominate a few for a screwball award.

[jpholding]

You could also have suggested readings for topics, which might involve merely organizing your book reviews. I'd be willing to help out with giving article titles and so on.

That would be nice. Work like that has gotten a little tedious for me too.

And it turns out eztoamuse is still around even though his site hasn't been updated since 2001. :rant:

[Darth Executor]

I hope you don't plan on removing any of exchanges. The humor is more than enough reason to keep them around.

[jpholding]

I hope you don't plan on removing any of exchanges. The humor is more than enough reason to keep them around.

The only things I plan to remove from ANYWHERE are responses to web-based persons whose material is now offline. That's not many so far... Darren Geist's bit on homosexuality, for example, has vanished from the Web.

What will happen with a few things is that I will reorient them to be on the new site and Tekton itself will have a new, shorter summary linking to the new site version.

[Sparko]

I think your personal replies to people are entertaining, but the most valuable thing on your site is it being a good apologetic resource library, kinda like the Christian Thinktank.

so :thumb:

[Soundsurfr]

If I had to condense this into one sentence, that would be, "NO MORE STUPID PEOPLE." Enough of that is enough.

Good luck. We'll know it actually works when your site disappears.

:wink:

[jpholding]

Good luck. We'll know it actually works when your site disappears.

:wink:

Yeah if there's no one left to reply to.... :lol:

[Meh_Gerbil]

A couple of thoughts:

1: If you genuinely love the people you are working with it becomes rewarding. There are grade school teachers that have been teaching 2+2=4 for 50 years. So do you love?

2: You must learn to tell the difference between the seeker and the jerk. Spend your time with seekers and you'll find a reward.

Just my 0.02

[jpholding]

1: If you genuinely love the people you are working with it becomes rewarding. There are grade school teachers that have been teaching 2+2=4 for 50 years. So do you love?

Yep...through emails. But it's not the people I'm tired of that I am "working" with.

2: You must learn to tell the difference between the seeker and the jerk. Spend your time with seekers and you'll find a reward.

I do that by email too. As for telling the diff it's not hard...the signals are clear....

[Gromit45]

Create a smart macro to scan all your tektonics.org incoming emails.

It will scan for keywords from "stupid people" questions. It automatically inserts the appropriate links to your webpages that contain the answers to these repetitive questions.

:wink:

[JSDileo]

This is an item that I will upload tomorrow. Feedback is welcome.

*******


Toon in for a Change
Or, "No More Stupid People"
James Patrick Holding

The time has arrived for a change, and to explain why we'll need to lay out some background.

After some 8 years of apologetics ministry (half of it full time) it is clear that we are spending too much time dealing with the same old arguments from different people again and again and again that have been answered (and seldom if ever countered, and even then, never successfully) again and again and again. I've relished the reputation as a "mercenary" willing to take on anything within my knowledge base, no matter how foolish, but facing opponents who just stand in a straight line like the British and never move an inch to the left or right is losing its savor. There's no challenge in noting for the 765th time to the 765th different Skeptic that ie, the Gospels are biographies and so no, this or that objection, made for the 765th time, will NOT work, and realizing that I won't get any more of an answer than I did from the last 764 who said the same thing.

I recently linked to Mike Licona's response to the DVD The God Who Wasn't There and it reminded me of all my older articles from BEFORE the objections became so dully repetitive. I didn't need to do what Mike did (he even told me he understood why I gave it such short shrift!) because I have the resources done already and can just say, as I did in my response to it, "been there, done that".

The problem is that if all I do is "been there, done that" work, it wastes time and becoming nauseatingly repetitive. Rather than lose my edge to ennui, I will do something different.

Over the next few weeks and months as needed, Tekton will be reworked to become to be a more resource-oriented site with less concern for reply to persons and more concern for reply to subjects. This would NOT change one bit many sections; in fact some (like Classics) are already a perfect fit.

However, other material will be changed. Some of it will be gutted and reworked (as some will recall I did years ago with my replies to The Jury Is In; so this has precedent). Some I will end up removing to a new site I'd like to start early next year. This new site will also house my web comics (like the new Sheila Rangslinger tale) and a few other personal things. It will also be paid for out of my own pocket (though it will accept gratuities, as many web comic sites do) as a "hobby" site.

With this change comes a few new provisos which amounts to a "response policy".

* I will not reply to any persons who merely present the same old same old. I suppose the best example I can think of is Mark Smith of "jcnot4me", who I have been asked about now and then. Though Smith has a talent for using colored and different sized fonts, I have not seen a single argument on his site (within my purview of subject matter) that I have not already answered satisfactorily (whether myself or by a link). The most such people will get is an Encyclopedia blurb noting why I won't do anything on them. This also goes for "old" opponents, by the way. You know who I mean.
* An obvious exception is if said person (whoever) deigns to reply to something here on Tekton. But even then I will look for ways to act like the person doesn't exist…no need to give spoiled children attention that they crave.
* Book reviews are obviously not something that can be handled this way, though if a book also is just the same old same old…same thing. The review will say so. Period.
* As always though, I will be glad to answer specific questions via email about what anyone writes. And, if something new is presented.

If I had to condense this into one sentence, that would be, "NO MORE STUPID PEOPLE." Enough of that is enough.

Wait, so if I make a new account and pretend to be an atheist, and I make up completely wacky but new claims, you'll answer me? AWESOME! I say Jesus wasn't crucified on a stake or a cross, he was crucified to Pontius Pilate himself! Please refute.

[jpholding]

I'll be updating this article soon, with some new strictures for replies...this will be added:

*********
Frankly, the only way you'll get me to reply to "same old same old" stuff is if -- I mean this -- I can have some fun with it. In other words, if it is a good candidate for me to put something on the cartoon/parody site, or if it involves someone so obnoxious (like Brian Flemming) that I can have some entertainment value from it. And another thing: Pretty soon I plan to start promoting the cartooning site more, and after I do, one of my tests for replying to someone on the Web will be that their site has to have more traffic than my cartooning site -- not Tekton, mind you! I'll be checking traffic rankings on alexa.com, where, even now (7/8/06), my cartooning site is ranked #1,745,181 (even though I have done nothing to promote it) and therefore already gets more traffic than a site by a certain "Skeptic X" (whose site is ranked in the neighborhood of #3.6 million as of the same date).
*********
Poor Farrell. :hehe:

[sc_q_jayce]

Why don't you just delegate the work to someone who's more familiar with your archives? You could make a collection of your apologetics essays, and in a seperate collection, a 'response to skeptics' in which the response would be someone else's work who basically looks at the argument and designs the response with the appropriate link? This would help your ministry involve others who love Tektonics (and know all your resources), it would help address the skeptic's website/argument that has got every Fundy Christian on their toes, and it would prevent you from pulling your hair out from having to reply to stupid people.

[jpholding]

Wheh! How'd I miss THIS?

Why don't you just delegate the work to someone who's more familiar with your archives?

I've had the idea. Here's the thing...

Any volunteers?

[Darth Executor]

In theory I could do it. In practice I have ADD and no Internet in my room (which I would need, no saving stuff on this computer).

[Trout]

Wheh! How'd I miss THIS?



I've had the idea. Here's the thing...

Any volunteers?

jimbo's pretty familiar with it.

[Darth Executor]

:rofl:

[jpholding]

jimbo's pretty familiar with it.

Yeah, well.... :twitch: He can recite it all by memory, especially the parts where I use words like "crap".



I think when I get back I'll do a little project. I'll check alexa.com traffic ranks for the various sites I've answered over the years and see who should get more attention.

[jpholding]

CRIKEY! The toon site is now ranked in the 4 million range just a few days later. :twitch:

See ya'll on the road.

[Sir-Think-A-Lot]

Wheh! How'd I miss THIS?



I've had the idea. Here's the thing...

Any volunteers?

I could, but I have no knowldge of coputer programing, or web desgin. So I'm not sure how much help I could actually be.

[Sparko]

Lazy Agnostic could do it for ya.

[dizzle]

Lazy Agnostic could do it for ya.

:rofl: