Why God sent Jesus on earth?

[pastor97]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
AMEN!!!

[Guerdis]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
AMEN!!!

Well, that's new.

[norwegen]

Well, that's new.And still profound. :joy:

[John from Ebla]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
AMEN!!!


Exactly- AMEM!!!

John From Ebla

[Daco]

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live.

Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes has eternal life.
AMEN!!!

But even had mankind avoided sin entirely, I am prone to believe that Jesus would still have come into the world. It has to do with Ephesians 3:11, "According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:" What is God's eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus? I do not pretend to know, but I think it is much more than simply answering the sin question and providing redemption for us poor sinners. Food for thought, perhaps.

[Ebolav]

Here is a stray thought I had..

In heaven (I am talking about many religions' idea of heaven), there is nothing negative.. Right? No pain, no suffering, etc..

Here are some obvious problems with that.. We all have painful memories. Will we be able to remember those painful things in these heavens? If so, then there will be pain in heaven. The only other options are

1. Your mind is fundementally altered such that it is not ALLOWED to recall or think of anything painful.. Which OBVIOUSLY compromises FREE WILL..

2. When you think of things that were once painful they bring you JOY.. This seems rediculous. imagine someone thinking about getting raped when they were young. That is going to bring them JOY?? That makes no sense..

Here is a second problem: The problem of free will..

If there is free will in heaven, then why wouldn't there be "sin"? If you are going to answer "the gods will make it so you ONLY choose certain things - all of those things GOOD.. than that is NOT free will..

If you are going to make the claim "god BANS evil from heaven so it simply DOESN'T exist" than the question must be asked "why could that god not have done that here?

Those are some problems with the idea of heaven.. Heaven and freewill don't mix.

[norwegen]

Those are some problems with the idea of heaven.. Heaven and freewill don't mix.You could be right. Maybe they don't mix.

But then, do they have to? Will minds and free wills be in heaven in the first place? Will finite characteristics exist in the infinite?

[Chytraeus]

But even had mankind avoided sin entirely, I am prone to believe that Jesus would still have come into the world. It has to do with Ephesians 3:11, "According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:" What is God's eternal purpose which He purposed in Christ Jesus? I do not pretend to know, but I think it is much more than simply answering the sin question and providing redemption for us poor sinners. Food for thought, perhaps.

St. Iraneaus had a simliar thought, but at the moment I do not remember entirely how his argument went. He also believed that Adam and Jesus would have looked like identical twins. The reason is that when God made man in His image, that image was the incarnate Son of God, Jesus Christ, so Adam was made to look like Jesus (so we are created in His image, and He is incarnate in our image, kind of circular)

Anyway, the church never agreed with Iraneaus on either of these thoughts. The position of the Church has always been that the eternal purpose for which God sent Christ Jesus was sin, because God always knew that man would sin and need a Savior. Revelataion calls Christ the Lamb slain before the creation of the world, which seems to be implying the same thing, for before the world there was no "time" as we know it, so all was eternal. Since Jesus was slain for sin ("Behold, the Lamb who takes away the sin of the world") then the eternal purpose of Christ Jesus was always to take away our sin.

For this reason, some who think about things with a bit too much logic, suggested that God created Adam so that he would fall into sin and need a Savior. I won't go there, no matter what logic my require. That would have God creating a people so that most of them would fall into eternal punishment just so He could glorify Himself by sending a Savior that only some would ever believe in.

[Chytraeus]

Here is a stray thought I had..

In heaven (I am talking about many religions' idea of heaven), there is nothing negative.. Right? No pain, no suffering, etc..

Here are some obvious problems with that.. We all have painful memories. Will we be able to remember those painful things in these heavens? If so, then there will be pain in heaven. The only other options are

1. Your mind is fundementally altered such that it is not ALLOWED to recall or think of anything painful.. Which OBVIOUSLY compromises FREE WILL..

2. When you think of things that were once painful they bring you JOY.. This seems rediculous. imagine someone thinking about getting raped when they were young. That is going to bring them JOY?? That makes no sense..

Here is a second problem: The problem of free will..

If there is free will in heaven, then why wouldn't there be "sin"? If you are going to answer "the gods will make it so you ONLY choose certain things - all of those things GOOD.. than that is NOT free will..

If you are going to make the claim "god BANS evil from heaven so it simply DOESN'T exist" than the question must be asked "why could that god not have done that here?

Those are some problems with the idea of heaven.. Heaven and freewill don't mix.

On point 1: Yes, we have painful memories in this life. They are painful for the same reason that an unhealed physical injury is painful. But when the injury is healed, the pain goes away. It is not that the injury becomes a good feeling, but that the pain goes away. So, also with psychological pain, the pain is caused by unhealed psychological injury, so, when God heals the injury, the pain will go away. It is not that the memory will then bring joy, but that the pain will go away. One main reason that these injuries still cause pain is because we have not forgiven the person who caused the pain, we still hold a grudge against them, so the injury will not heal. Forgiveness brings healing, and the pain goes away.

On point 2: You're right, free will and heaven don't mix. In fact, your concept of free will and life don't mix. You will is never completely free. I will never will to like lima beans, because it is my nature to hate them, so my nature is bound to hate lima beans, so, given the choice between eating lima beans and eating chocolate, which I love, I will always choose the chocolate. My will is not free to choose the lima beans, because it is not in my nature to choose the lima beans.

In the same way, you are not now free to do anything that pleases God, because in your nature you hate God and flee from Him. Even when you choose to do things that look good in the eyes of the world, you do them in a way that makes them displeasing to God. So, you are not free to do anything that will make it possible for you to get to heaven. In the same way, when I get to heaven the only will I will still have is the one that delights in doing God's will and hates to do anything that displeases Him, so I will no longer be free to do any sin. I will be free to do any of the many things that will please God, but none of the things that do not please Him, because it will not be in my nature. Since none of those things have ever done me the least bit of good, I will say "Good riddence."