What is the soul?

[Tfbandie]

Having just come from a bible study on this topic I thought I'd throw it out there. From a biblical standpoint was is the soul. Is it an actual thing, or is it a classification of other occuring qualities, or...? Use the greek, use anything, Just want to hear what my fellow Twebers think. we, of course, could not reach concensus and, I personally, while still holding onto the notion of the soul as our essence of being, or something along those lines, find the argument against soul being an entity, to be compelling

[The Unassumed]

Having just come from a bible study on this topic I thought I'd throw it out there. From a biblical standpoint was is the soul. Is it an actual thing, or is it a classification of other occuring qualities, or...? Use the greek, use anything, Just want to hear what my fellow Twebers think. we, of course, could not reach concensus and, I personally, while still holding onto the notion of the soul as our essence of being, or something along those lines, find the argument against soul being an entity, to be compelling

The soul is a person (that is to say, a human body) from the perspective or his or her animation or life-force. It is used as a term for a human being as a whole: a living being.

The term has wider usages, but that's the 'core'.

[Jezz]

The soul is a person (that is to say, a human body) from the perspective or his or her animation or life-force. It is used as a term for a human being as a whole: a living being.
The concept of "animation" is perhaps the more core of these two concepts. It is in fact more fundamentally true than most people realise. The Latin word for "soul" (which is a direct translation of the Greek "psyche") is anim - it is from this word that we get words like "animate" and "animal". Anything that is animate has a soul, by definition (in Genesis, when God created the animals, it says He created "living souls"). Of course, different types of animate objects have different types of anims (ie, souls), but they all have souls.

I would be careful saying "the soul is a person" though - strictly speaking, a person is both body + soul - not one or the other. However, due to the tight relationship between body and soul, it is true that in the Bible either term may be used to refer to the person as a whole (this is a literary device known as a synechdoche). Even in modern English, there are some traces of this usage left (for example: "Does anybody know what the time is?" "He wouldn't harm a soul.")

The term has wider usages, but that's the 'core'.
:thumb:

[The Unassumed]

strictly speaking, a person is both body + soul - not one or the other. However, due to the tight relationship between body and soul, it is true that in the Bible either term may be used to refer to the person as a whole (this is a literary device known as a synechdoche).

True. A person is literally a soul-body, or animated flesh. The use of "soul" to refer to a person is synecdochal.

[Tfbandie]

True. A person is literally a soul-body, or animated flesh. The use of "soul" to refer to a person is synecdochal.
Thanks guys for the input. Is this the way soul is used in the bible? I have heard the greek word means same as spirit or wind, and I've also heard it had a meaning more like 'personal drive'.

Follow up question as well, on death, what happens? and further with the bodily resurrection. (I also don't have a strongidea about the bodily ressurection.)

[Dave G]

Thanks guys for the input. Is this the way soul is used in the bible? I have heard the greek word means same as spirit or wind, and I've also heard it had a meaning more like 'personal drive'.

Follow up question as well, on death, what happens? and further with the bodily resurrection. (I also don't have a strongidea about the bodily ressurection.)

I'm curious as well, I've heard it defined as a person's emotions, in the ANE believed to be seated in the bowels...and I don't know how the verse that says the Spirit is a two-edged sword able to divide soul from spirit is supposed to be interpreted. I thought the spirit would be the animus.

[Aletheia]

Thanks guys for the input. Is this the way soul is used in the bible? I have heard the greek word means same as spirit or wind, and I've also heard it had a meaning more like 'personal drive'.

Follow up question as well, on death, what happens? and further with the bodily resurrection. (I also don't have a strongidea about the bodily ressurection.)

I don't have time to get into this as much as I'd like to, but I thought I'd post one quick thought (ok, maybe two).

In a nutshell I was always told that the Hebrew word "Ruach" means spirit, wind, breath, etc ... and that the Hebrew word "Nephesh" means soul, body, personhood, etc ... but of course it's not so simple. Is it ever? :ahem: :teeth:

aish.com has the following to say:

The soul consists of three parts which are called by the Hebrew names, nefesh, ruach and neshama. The word neshama is a cognate of nesheema, which means literally "breath." Ruach means "wind." Nefesh comes from the root nafash, meaning "rest," as in the verse, "On the seventh day, [God] ceased work and rested (nafash)." (Exodus 31:17).

God's exhaling a soul can be compared to a glassblower forming a vessel. The breath (neshama) first leaves his lips, travels as a wind (ruach) and finally comes to rest (nefesh) in the vessel. Of these three levels of the soul, neshama is therefore the highest and closes to God, while nefesh is that aspect of the soul residing in the body. Ruach stands between the two, binding man to his spiritual Source. It is for this reason that Divine Inspiration is called Ruach HaKodesh in Hebrew.

It would be interesting to discuss how the Jewish view of the soul/spirit differs from the Christian view.

Goodnight all and God bless.

[Da Lone-Warrior]

I like the EO approach described by Christos Yannaras.

Google:Yannaras Soul
http://www.assumptionaz.org/On%20The%20Soul.doc

It is based on this def'n that I base my belief that we are human beings at 48 days. It is first at that point that the human embryo is visually recognizable in its entirety as a potential human being.
dlw

[Jezz]

Thanks guys for the input. Is this the way soul is used in the bible?
Mostly. Sometimes it is used to mean something more like "animal" (as in wild animal), in contrast to spiritual. Roughly speaking, "soulish" (ie, animal) behaviour corresponds to this-worldly behaviour, whereas "spiritual" behaviour corresponds to Godly behaviour. The difference is that the Holy Spirit guides the spiritual person, whereas the soulish person is guided by their own passions. This language is used throughout 1 Corinthians, for example. In 1 Cor 15, it is used to differentiate our current bodies (soulish) from our resurrection bodies (spiritual).

This difference between "spiritual" and "soulish" seems very similar to the Jewish differentiation that KParis talked about. It also probably explains the "dividing soul from spirit" passage that DaveG

I have heard the greek word means same as spirit or wind...
No. The Greek word for spirit/wind/breath is "pneuma". This is the word we get such words in English like "pneumatic" (as in, pneumatic tyres) and "pneumonia".

The Greek word for soul is "psyche", which is actually an English word too. The English meaning is pretty close to the original Greek meaning. It is this word that we get words like "psychiatry", "psychology", "psychic" and "psychotherapy".

If ever an atheist tells you that there is no scientific evidence of a soul, ask them why it is that there is an entire field of science devoted to its study (psychology) and an entire branch of medicine devoted to it (psychiatry) - and that both fields try (in different ways) to heal it (psychotherapy)... :wink:

...and I've also heard it had a meaning more like 'personal drive'.
"Personal drive" is pretty good.

Follow up question as well, on death, what happens? and further with the bodily resurrection. (I also don't have a strongidea about the bodily ressurection.)
At death, the soul rests in Hades awaiting the general resurrection, when every soul will be rembodied in a resurrection body to face judgement.

Our resurrection bodies will be different from our current bodies, but still connected to our current bodies - just as a tree is different from (but connected to) the seed that it grew from.

[Anoetos]

I have been taught, and have no reason to disbelieve, that the soul is, simply, the immaterial part of man.

[Bernie]

On a base level, it seems Anoetos' definition covers most of the bases.

Soul is hard to define because we're talking about incorporeal substance, which lies outside the realm of sense. Soul can be thought of as mind in a dichotomy, spirit in a trichotomy, or a combination of body/mind/spirit, as mentioned in a couple earlier posts. It's lots easier to talk about matter, something one can sink one's teeth (or eyes or ears, etc.) in. I've found that in discussions with other Christians about soul or spirit, it's important to establish definitions up front so everyone's on the same page or miscommunication soon ensues.

Fascinating topic, soul/spirit. I tend to think of soul as 'mind' in a tripartite model rather than spirit. Hard to know where (or if) to separate ethereal entities, but everyone uses the model that makes most sense to his/her own gray matter.

[David_A_Reed]

Follow up question as well, on death, what happens? and further with the bodily resurrection. (I also don't have a strongidea about the bodily ressurection.)
You may enjoy my 40-page booklet After Death — What?...according to Jesus, now in web form at http://www.cftf.com/death/index.html. I wrote it originally to refute the teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses who try to argue from Scripture that people simply cease to exist at death.

David