Attn: Historicism. Ten Nations?

[technomage]

After the end of the Roman Empire, the area of their Empire not part of Greece, Persia or Babylon (i.e., "The Western Roman Empire" or Western Europe that was exclusive to Rome and not to Greece, Persia, etc., but not including areas that Rome never conquered like Germany) was inherited by 10 Barbarian kingdoms:



the Lombards,
Franks,
Burgundians,
Ostrogoths,
Visigoths,
Vandals,
Heruli,
Sueves,
Huns
and Saxons.

Today the same region consists of 10 countries:



Italy,
Austria,
Switzerland,
France,
the United Kingdom,
Netherlands,
Luxemburg,
Belgium,
Spain,
and Portugal.
There is apparently some fluidity between which 10 nations will represent this fulfillment at any given century since the collapse of Rome. But the average number within the territories once ruled by Rome in the Western Empire has always been 10, ever since.


"Fluidity" meaning "If I can find ten, I can stop counting?"


Histocicism, I strongly recommend you check out the historical maps of western Europe (http://www.euratlas.com/summary.htm). The website offers European maps every century from 1 CE to 2000 CE. You'll see that "ten" is an arbitrary number on your part, not matched by the history.


That is, if you are, indeed, interested in history, rather than polemics.

[studyhound]

"Fluidity" meaning "If I can find ten, I can stop counting?"


Histocicism, I strongly recommend you check out the historical maps of western Europe (http://www.euratlas.com/summary.htm). The website offers European maps every century from 1 CE to 2000 CE. You'll see that "ten" is an arbitrary number on your part, not matched by the history.


That is, if you are, indeed, interested in history, rather than polemics.

Is he saying that the list is a one to one representation? That the Visigoths are Great Britian? ANd the Saxons are from Portugal?

[technomage]

Is he saying that the list is a one to one representation? That the Visigoths are Great Britian? ANd the Saxons are from Portugal?
I don't think so: he's just saying "Ten Kingdoms" then, and "Ten Nations" now.

[bandecoot]

"Fluidity" meaning "If I can find ten, I can stop counting?"


Histocicism, I strongly recommend you check out the historical maps of western Europe (http://www.euratlas.com/summary.htm). The website offers European maps every century from 1 CE to 2000 CE. You'll see that "ten" is an arbitrary number on your part, not matched by the history.


That is, if you are, indeed, interested in history, rather than polemics.

Well he missed Andorra,Monaco and the Vatican State, at the very least. so that makes 13. 2 principalities and an Ecclesiastical State. They are however at least as large as Luxembourg and Seperate Countries in their own right.

but he misses the colonies Rome established in North Africa. How would they fit in?

Honestly this is one of those posts that keeps me out of this section. There is no way of convincing the person that they are wrong so why bother?

If it had been anyone but Justin I would not have even bothered with this.

[Spinyn00bman]

Well he missed Andorra,Monaco and the Vatican State, at the very least. so that makes 13. 2 principalities and an Ecclesiastical State. They are however at least as large as Luxembourg and Seperate Countries in their own right.

but he misses the colonies Rome established in North Africa. How would they fit in?

Honestly this is one of those posts that keeps me out of this section. There is no way of convincing the person that they are wrong so why bother?

If it had been anyone but Justin I would not have even bothered with this.

Yeah well you are just a dumb athiest. WHat would you know?

The plight of the intellectually dishonest.....unless it is an honest mistake.

Survey says?

[technomage]

The plight of the intellectually dishonest.....unless it is an honest mistake.

Survey says?

I don't think Historicism's being deliberately "intellectually dishonest" ... I think he honestly believes that his interpretation is true, because that's what he understands of the Bible. And ... I think he's tried to place that interpretation as a "historical fact" without studying the actual history.

[bandecoot]

Yeah well you are just a dumb athiest. WHat would you know?

The plight of the intellectually dishonest.....unless it is an honest mistake.

Survey says?

I was in 2 minds about including Eire. That would make it 14. But Ireland was never a part of the Empire so It could have been nitpicked. But now that I think about it north and south Ireland are part of western europe. It is still only 14 because south Ireland is part of Great Britain. Unless you count countries that have a separate parliament in which case its 15. Scotland you see.