The verichip for preterists

[Rubia Warren]

Some christians are leery of an implantable chip for humans.... what do preterists think about it? (the idea of DDW having the mark of the beast made me wonder about this).

[Lizard]

This is futurist speculation about what the number of the beast or the mark of the beast may be during the "Great" tribulation.

Preterist beleive that the "Great" tribulation has already happened, in AD 70, without any inplanted computer chips.

;)

[Rubia Warren]

I know that, but what do you guys think about implantable chips? Do they kinda creep you out, or what? Would you ever get one if it was suggested that you should? Not necessarily for buying and selling purposes, but for other reasons.

[Lizard]

La Rubia:
I know that, but what do you guys think about implantable chips? Do they kinda creep you out, or what? Would you ever get one if it was suggested that you should? Not necessarily for buying and selling purposes, but for other reasons.

Well yeah they do kinda kreep me out. But not because I think they are somehow a "mark of the beast".

They freak me out because I kinda like for my business to stay my business withoug some govt. agency keeping track of everything that I do. But that really isn't related to my view of preterism.

I hope that helps, but I am afraid I may be making it worse.

[Solly]

Given the current worries over mobile phone radiation once again, i would not get one, but that is the only reason. I don't want any more elctromagnetic radiation near my brain than is absolutely necessary.

[Rubia Warren]

Faramir:


Well yeah they do kinda kreep me out. But not because I think they are somehow a "mark of the beast".

They freak me out because I kinda like for my business to stay my business withoug some govt. agency keeping track of everything that I do. But that really isn't related to my view of preterism.

I hope that helps, but I am afraid I may be making it worse.
I am not a preterist, but I am also more creeped out about it because I don't want someone checking me out, or being able to find me, no matter where I am at, things like that. There are those from "my" camp who get totally hysterical about it, claiming that it WILL be the mark of the beast.... but, I tend to remember the hysteria about barcodes and social security numbers, too.........

I never thought about what Solly just said. Hmmm.... something to think about.

[Lizard]

La Rubia:

I am not a preterist, but I am also more creeped out about it because I don't want someone checking me out, or being able to find me, no matter where I am at, things like that. There are those from "my" camp who get totally hysterical about it, claiming that it WILL be the mark of the beast.... but, I tend to remember the hysteria about barcodes and social security numbers, too.........

I never thought about what Solly just said. Hmmm.... something to think about.

Me too Rubia. When I was a futurist, I never really thought the the "chip" was the mark of the beast either. But that didn't mean I have to like the idea. ;)

[Renegade Drow]

futurist??? This is a new one. A form of dispensationalist?? :hrm:




RD

[Lizard]

Renegade Drow:
futurist??? This is a new one. A form of dispensationalist?? :hrm:

RD

Actually dispensational eschatology is a form of futurism. That is they believe that most of the NT prophecies are in the future. There are some non-dispy futurist.

Also, some dispy's deny that they are futurist.

[Darth Xena]

I got in on this one late I see. I would not get a chip implant for the same reasons that Faramir has articulated, but it has nothing to do with Revelation. We have to remember in Revelation there is not only the mark of the Beast, but also the mark of the Lamb.... is that allegedly to be a chip too? Can I get one at the local Family Christian Bookstore next to the Veggie Tales and LaHaye Prophecy Timeline poster?

[GrayPilgrim]

I'll break in as a futurist, who objects to the chips for privacy reasons. The passage in Revelation says:

This calls for wisdom: let the one who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man, and his number is 666.

To think it is some mystical thing is silly. In Ancient world letters doubled as numbers so that in Hebrew (I know the NT is Greek, but just using it cause I know the number eqivalents) David = 14 (D=4, W=6, D=4 OR 4+4+6=14). So we see that the geneaology in Matthew is shaped to fit the 14 pattern.

Archaeologists have found graphity that says 762 Loves 412. So there is some guy who likes some woman that he is not supposed to. Nothing earie about it. It's jsut hte way that you could speek about someone that its not prudent to speek about.

In the specific conext of Revelation, we need to see that taking this persons mark is the opposite of taking the Name of Christ, written on your forehead. Not some tattoo, but rather sign of belonging.

So as a futurist, I am against for privacy, and pain (it would hurt to get something poked in you. [Hey I was happy to find out that since I had been in Great Britain since 1980 I'm not allowed to give blood (even if I was there back in 1981) because of mad cow disease.]

[Lizard]

Dee Dee Warren:
Can I get one at the local Family Christian Bookstore next to the Veggie Tales and LaHaye Prophecy Timeline poster?

As a parent and a Veggie Tale lover, I strongly object to your refering to them in the same breath as LaHaye.

(of course I also object to the mass quanities of LaHaye's schpiel found in most Christian book stores)

:argh:

[Carl Smuda]

I had to register both my children with Social Security before I could claim them on my taxes. Someday they'll probably make permanent barcode on the forehead or hand mandetory for tax filing, or NOT.

don't forget the GPS systems in automobiles. If not now, then soon enough, the technology will be developed for Patrol Officers to turn off the car they would be chasing.

Dee Dee you made me smile with the question about the mark of the Lamb. And I thought God's Law discouraged tatoos? :grin:

[Darth Xena]

GP, and you are right. It is a symbol of ownership.

And Faramir... I like Veggie Tales too. I also dig the Prophecy Time Line poster. Preterists don't do charts. I miss the charts with the figures of big statues with gaps in toes and Cobra helicopters and dragons and stuff. Sigh. I miss that stuff. Sometimes being a preterist is just so dang dull.

[Darth Xena]

I have Matthew 24:34 tatooed on me. It is a requirement for all preterists. We get it at preterist brainwashing camp.

[Lizard]

Dee Dee Warren:
I have Matthew 24:34 tatooed on me. It is a requirement for all preterists. We get it at preterist brainwashing camp.

Wasn't camp fun?

Did you have counselor DeMar?

He was the bomb.


(PS the tatoos are supposed to be a secret)

[GrayPilgrim]

Hahahah!!!! I know your secret!!!!I shall contact this DeMar guy and you shall pay!!!:bonk: :yipee:

[Darth Xena]

Drat!!! Do you have any idea what the punishment is?? Eeek!!! How many books are in the series now?? Gah!

[GrayPilgrim]

:rofl: :rofl:

[Rubia Warren]

Dee Dee Warren:
I got in on this one late I see. I would not get a chip implant for the same reasons that Faramir has articulated, but it has nothing to do with Revelation. We have to remember in Revelation there is not only the mark of the Beast, but also the mark of the Lamb.... is that allegedly to be a chip too? Can I get one at the local Family Christian Bookstore next to the Veggie Tales and LaHaye Prophecy Timeline poster?
Why, Dee Dee, as a matter of fact, this Saturday (tomorrow), I heard that they will be doing a one- time offer at FCB... if you get chipped, you get a whole prophecy poster FREE! (They're having an on-site nurse now). YAY! :yipee:

[Lizard]

La Rubia:

Why, Dee Dee, as a matter of fact, this Saturday (tomorrow), I heard that they will be doing a one- time offer at FCB... if you get chipped, you get a whole prophecy poster FREE! (They're having an on-site nurse now). YAY! :yipee:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Lizard]

Dee Dee Warren:
Drat!!! Do you have any idea what the punishment is?? Eeek!!! How many books are in the series now?? Gah!

It was you man. All you. Don't try to pin this on me. I will not read those books (again)

[Darth Xena]

Cool!! Speaking of charts.. I have this chart that I hope that I can find at home that my husband got from this early 1900s dispie book. It is so complicated it gives me a headache just to look at it, but it does have cool little figures on it. I have this perverse compulsion to just fax it to DeMar with a note that simply says, "So there wise guy! See! You're wrong."

[Darth Xena]

Guess what my sister-in-law got us for Christmas two years ago? Yep. You guessed it. The whole darned thing. Now if I ever doubted that God had a sense of humor, they all vanished that day.

[Lizard]

Dee Dee Warren:
Cool!! Speaking of charts.. I have this chart that I hope that I can find at home that my husband got from this early 1900s dispie book. It is so complicated it gives me a headache just to look at it, but it does have cool little figures on it. I have this perverse compulsion to just fax it to DeMar with a note that simply says, "So there wise guy! See! You're wrong."


:no:

Bad Dee Dee

Bad Dee Dee

;)

[Rubia Warren]

Who the heck is DeMar? :huh:

[Darth Xena]

He is the author of a fanstastic primer on preterism. Ironically enough I only read it quite recently. It wasn't DeMar that convinced me, it was wrestling with the text. I wish though I had read him earlier, it would have saved me a lot of grief.

[GrayPilgrim]

I had no clue who DeMar was I thought he was a fictitious character!

[efta777]

I only read DeMar's book within the past couple months. If I hadn't been convinced before, I would be now.

[Lizard]

DeMar is the bomb. :yipee:

[Lizard]

Faramir:
DeMar is the bomb. :yipee:

Plus, he is from Atlanta, like me. :yipee:

[Renegade Drow]

Preterism huh… I’ve seen that word around here frequently. I thought this was a minority viewpoint in eschatology. I’ve read (some) from both camps and I probably lean more towards ‘futurism’, though I am not set and could be converted. :D

I do believe some of the NT prophecy was fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem, but others like Paul’s ‘thief in the night’ thing was this not to be fulfilled at a future date called the ‘second coming’? Isn’t this foundational for rapturists like MacArthur and maybe LeHaye (if this is the ‘left behind’ series guy??).


DeMar is da bomb huh, I will go and see what he has to say. (Hopefully it is low level for guys like me...:) )


RD

[Lizard]

Renegade Drow:
Preterism huh… I’ve seen that word around here frequently. I thought this was a minority viewpoint in eschatology. I’ve read (some) from both camps and I probably lean more towards ‘futurism’, though I am not set and could be converted. :D

I do believe some of the NT prophecy was fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem, but others like Paul’s ‘thief in the night’ thing was this not to be fulfilled at a future date called the ‘second coming’? Isn’t this foundational for rapturists like MacArthur and maybe LeHaye (if this is the ‘left behind’ series guy??).


DeMar is da bomb huh, I will go and see what he has to say. (Hopefully it is low level for guys like me...:) )


RD

Hi RD. The Orthodox Preterism that some of us here follows, believe that most, but not all of the prophecy was fullfille. We do beleive that Christ will come again physically, that there will be a physical rapture, and that there will be a final judgement.

If you have any specific questions. Please feel free to ask me. Or if you want the long answer, ask Dee Dee ;)

[Darth Xena]

Or if you want the long answer, ask Dee Dee

:rofl:

[Renegade Drow]

We do beleive that Christ will come again physically, that there will be a physical rapture, and that there will be a final judgement.

I checked some of DeMar’s writings, and I am now confused. :help:

From what I gather, you can’t have you cake and eat it too. In order to believe that a ‘parousia’ event was fulfilled in ‘that generation’ and one at a future rapture is problematic because it would require 2 separate parousia events.

Is my reasoning correct, or have I missed something completely?





RD

[Darth Xena]

Dear RD:

The Bible records more than "two" coming events in anyone's view. Christ "comes" to us at conversion.. he threatens to "come" in judgment upon disobedient churches (Revelation's seven letters), He "comes" to us when we die. This is nothing unusual. Parousia and the related words such as erchomai are not technical terms that can only refer to a bodily coming...

We orthodox preterists still await the Second Coming of Christ which is the second time that He will come to the earth in bodily form. But He has "come" countless times since then and in countless ways. This is common Biblical parlance.

For a good summary of the "two comings" that we are talking about here though check out my article at www.tektonics.org/soon.html

[Darth Xena]

I just did some shameless self-promotion didn't I? Bad, bad DDW... and RD thank you for your very good question.

[Renegade Drow]

I was thinking more along the lines of 2 eschatological parousia-type events.

I will :read: your article soon.


More questions (arguments) are proabable.




Thanks,

RD

[Darth Xena]

Cool. :thumb:

[efta777]

But back on subject... A chip implant? As long as I wasn't forced into it... I'd keep an open mind about it.

[Popeye]

I read an article a few months ago about the "Digital Angel". I found it to be very much on the hillarious side. It's at www.tldm.org/News4/MarkoftheBeast.htm.

[Hitch]

Since the basis for this notion is misplaced literalism I would encourage anyone so concerned to have the chip (or currently popular MOB) placed in the left hand. (back of the head, instep, teeth, toe, ears, pancreas, etc) Probelm solved.

Hitch

[Hitch]

I checked some of DeMar’s writings, and I am now confused.

From what I gather, you can’t have you cake and eat it too. In order to believe that a ‘parousia’ event was fulfilled in ‘that generation’ and one at a future rapture is problematic because it would require 2 separate parousia events.

Is my reasoning correct, or have I missed something completely?





RD

Well there's a key. Make Christ the center of your eschatological outlook. The facts of his direct interventionsarre recorded in Scripture from Moshe to John. He 'comes' and goes at will. So when he personally announces the event marking the end of time that should form our platform from which to view what came before, OT Scriptures, and after, NT Apostolic letters.

Specifically John 6;39-54.


Take care

Hitch