Our Featured Member Article: God and Pain by RumTumTugger

[Trout]

God And Pain

by RumTumTugger

Jesus, he meets you where you are
Jesus, He heals your secret scars
All the love you are longing for is Jesus
The Friend of a wounded heart.

From Wayne Watson’s “Friend of a Wounded Heart.

Those who go through life thinking that if you only have enough faith, nothing bad will happen to you as a Christian seem to be missing the 2nd lesson of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection. One that in my life I have only started to understand. That our faith in not in a God who does not understand our pain, who is removed from our sufferings; but a God who chose to go through what we have gone through and more. A God who can then walk with you on life's journey and give you strength to climb that mountain you come to.

I’m so glad that my friend Irene did not fall into the trap of the aforementioned people and wonder why her faith wasn’t strong enough to heal her of the muscular dystrophy she developed, Nor my Cousin who died after years of being a paraplegic, if they had their lives would not have had the impact they did.

Instead Irene stood on a faith in a God who understanding what she was going through walked with her helping her over the mountain(when she let him. , she was a do it yourself strong person) got a Masters degree, and went on as long as she was able to help those who needed it. Seeing her unwillingness to wallow in the pain helped my Brother when he had his own health problems, keep going. Then there was the man(my cousin Ron) who helped his young cousin understand that losing the use of your legs or any other part of you doesn’t mean that you give up on life or that God has forsaken you.

These two truly showed me that we have faith in a God who will not forsake us, a God who will be there with us through all our lives the good and the bad times, giving us his strength as we grow.

This is the type of faith God wants for us. Not a faith dependent on circumstances but The Faith dependant on a God who has proven to be trustworthy. A faith that will stand the test of time and not be blown away at the slightest wind.

And in Eternity when
All the mysteries are gone.
It will be clear that it was our God
Keeping us strong

From Wayne Watson’s “The Ones left Standing

Notice - The featuring of a particular member article does not constitute endorsement of every single item or point of view contained therein by each and every member of TheologyWeb leadership. We strive to have a varied cross-section of representations of differing opinions on secondary Christian issues. The only requirement for the featuring of a particular article is that said article must not contradict the essentials articulated in the TheologyWeb statement of faith found here in our Mission Statement (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/mission/)or be blatantly offensive to the Christian worldview of the site Owners.

[Lady Gooner]

lovely to read of those testimonies of faithfulness whenever I read of such I always think of

Revelation 11"And they overcame him because of the blood of the Lamb and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even when faced with death.

Christians often get themselves into trouble by ignoring the Bible when it comes to their emotions. The Bible clearly illustrates and describes God as having emotions.

God thinks, feels, experiences life just like us - or rather we do it just like Him , afterall it is us who is created in His image , not the other way round the question is, Is God (Jesus) led, ruled by His emotions or is He just ok about showing them. He gets angry, He shows compassion, love, hurt, He cries,.....

Emotions do not simply occur in a vacuum. There is a cause and a response.

Three big causes of emotion in our life include our own sin, the sin of others and situations out of our control.

One major cause of our emotions is grief. We can experience grief in simply loosing a job or in as profound a situation as having a spouse or child die. What is the Biblical response? Ignoring it? :no: Laughing and joking? :no: Quoting Romans 8:28 :eh: that "God causes all things to work together for good to those who love Him, to those who are called according to His purpose?"? While true, that is only a partial response.


In John 11:35 Jesus exhibits great emotion, Jesus is at Lazarus' tomb. He has already told Mary and Martha what he is going to do, raise Lazarus from the dead. He comes to the tomb and he shouts with joy? He weeps. He weeps KNOWING he is going to raise Lazarus. The Bible doesn't explain why he wept. Often we can't explain all the reasons for our emotions either. But it does say when he saw the place, he wept.

There is no situation, or temptation that Jesus doesnt understand. He has felt them too. We are able to overcome feelings of abandonment and being overwhelmed by drawing close to Jesus.

James 4:7-10 Submit therefore to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Be miserable and mourn and weep; let your laughter be turned to mourning, and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you.

The healing and our solid foundation is found in Him. As we acknowledge Jesus in our lives He strengthens us to do what we are called to do in life.

Philippians 4:13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.

Ephesians 3 :16 - 18
16that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,
17so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, 18may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,

Colossians 2: 6-8 6So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in him, 7rooted and built up in him, strengthened in the faith as you were taught, and overflowing with thankfulness. 8See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the basic principles of this world rather than on Christ.

In Gethsemane the sorrow (anguish) the Lord felt was enough to Kill Him so much so that God sent an angel to minister to Him ,

Hebrews 5: 7-8 7In the days of His flesh, He offered up both prayers and supplications with loud crying and tears to the One able to save Him from death, and He was heard because of His piety.
8Although He was a Son, He learned obedience from the things which He suffered.

death was imminent. He anticipated the cross, He died for you and me , and at that time He went to His father,

Matthew 26 : 39
39And He went a little beyond them, and fell on His face and prayed, saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; yet not as I will, but as You will."


When situations get us down, when we feel alone, frightened, bereft of any comfort, abandoned shouldn't we do the same go to the father through Jesus.

The Lord Jesus accepted something vile and unbearable -the cup of wrath

Psalm 75 : 8
For a cup is in the hand of the LORD, and the wine foams;
It is well mixed, and He pours out of this;
Surely all the wicked of the earth must drain and drink down its dregs.

Isaiah 51 :17
Rouse yourself! Rouse yourself! Arise, O Jerusalem,
You who have drunk from the LORD'S hand the cup of His anger;
The chalice of reeling you have drained to the dregs.

Jeremiah 49 : 12 For thus says the LORD, "Behold, those who were not sentenced to drink the cup will certainly drink it, and are you the one who will be completely acquitted? You will not be acquitted, but you will certainly drink it.


John 12 for this purpose He came into the world to do God's will even though it meant He was utterly abandoned yet still He TRUSTED God. Let us do the same and recognise just what it was he actually did for us


While emotion has its dangers, it also very definitely has its place in the Christian life, its witness is to bear to the reality of unseen things,

Psalm 27:

“to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord…”

“to seek him in his temple…”

“to seek his face…”


and to lead us into an understanding of intimate spiritual communion with the Lord God

[Ps.63:2] “Yet I am always with you; you hold me by my right hand.” “…as for me, it is good to be near God.” [Ps. 73:23, 28] In other places, the psalmist is conscious of the Lord’s distance from him and longs to be brought near to the Lord again. “Why have you forgotten me? … Send forth your light…” [Ps. 42:9; 43:3]

Christians are strengthened by the testing of their faith.

"In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials, that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Pet 1:5-6).

Trials produce joy because the testing establishes the faith of Christians. James said the same:

"Consider it all joy, my brethren, when you encounter various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces endurance" (Jas 1:2-3).

Trials, temptations and tests do not weaken or shatter real faith, They strengthen it. People who lose their faith in a trial only show that they never had real faith to begin with.And real faith gives all the glory to God because you know instinctively its not you who got through the trial but that it was Jesus working in you His intercession and those of other believers who carry you through. BUT for God to work you have to yield to Him (your decision Pat not Gods' yours)


Trials themselves are anything but joyful, and Peter recognize this though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been
distressed by various trials" (v. 6).

They come like fire to burn the dross off metal. But that is the point. The faith that emerges is that much more glorious. When the fire has done its burning, what is left is purer, brighter, stronger faith. Look at abrahams faith trial. he even went so far as to believe that God would raise Isaac from the dead as he trusted that God would bring the deliverer through that line.

God doesnt test the faith of Christians for His own sake. He already knows what faith we possess. He tests our faith for our own benefit, so that we will know if our faith is genuine. He tests our faith in order to refine it,strengthen it, bring it to maturity. What emerges is"more precious than gold" (v. 7).

Unlike gold, proven faith has eternal value. The great confidence of the believer is to know that his faith is real. Thus trials produce that mature faith by which God preserves Christians.


It is a beautiful realization in our hearts, that the Lord understands everything we are going through. It is a joy and peace and comfort that the Lord Jesus received when angels came from heaven to minister to him but now more widely granted to all of God’s people. It is that emotion that we experience through our relationships of life, the tears of love and joy that are shed for the love of children, parents, husbands, and wives, when we are ill or dying, when we have nothing but it is that keeping faith that is now realised in our relationship with God. He created them and He has them ---- lovely

"I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day" (2 Tim 1:12).

not sure if this was what you were looking for comment wise but this is what came to mind from reading the article :smile:

[Shadow Phoenix]

One of the great things about RTT (Or should it be RTP for RumTumPotter?) is her selflessness in her own channeling of these lessons that she has learned Many of you might not know that despite all the annoyance I give to RTP, I have an incredibly close relationship with her. In fact, it could be her willingness to let me annoy her that helped that relationship develop.

Anyhow, RTP was the first one who suggested I start writing my blogs and she reads mine every night and usually gives a hug if it's something depressing. She never asks for anything in return. On the other hand, as I'm going through the Harry Potter books myself now, I can sign on and tell her exactly where I am and what's just happened and see her delight.

Basically, for anyone who doesn't agree with RTP, don't think she just writes this and doesn't follow what she believes. She most certainly does. RTP has been her own channel used for healing and encouragement. Biblically, I think I could easily say she has the gift of encouragement. RTP is a great friend to have, and I salute this article of hers.

[RumTumTugger]

Lady G, it is always nice to see what comes to peoples minds when they read what I write.

it is also interesting that one of the things you brought up is Jesus's prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane. it was during my years of BSF when we were studying the Gospel of John that upon reading that passage I started understanding what it meant that our God came down to experience what we did and more. That passage has been such a comfort to me when I deal with the painful times of my life in seeing that we do not have a God who is remote from us and our trials.

Thank you for your thoughts.

ApologiaNick, my brother, thank you for your kind words. I'm am glad that in God has allowed me to be an encourgement to you and hope you can find encourgment through out your life.

Michele.

[NSMinistries]

RTT,

Thank you.

Adam

[RumTumTugger]

:hug: Adam, you are in my Prayers.

[jesusfreak]

God And Pain

by RumTumTugger

Jesus, he meets you where you are
Jesus, He heals your secret scars
All the love you are longing for is Jesus
The Friend of a wounded heart.

From Wayne Watson’s “Friend of a Wounded Heart.

Those who go through life thinking that if you only have enough faith, nothing bad will happen to you as a Christian seem to be missing the 2nd lesson of Jesus’ life, death and resurrection. One that in my life I have only started to understand. That our faith in not in a God who does not understand our pain, who is removed from our sufferings; but a God who chose to go through what we have gone through and more. A God who can then walk with you on life's journey and give you strength to climb that mountain you come to.

I’m so glad that my friend Irene did not fall into the trap of the aforementioned people and wonder why her faith wasn’t strong enough to heal her of the muscular dystrophy she developed, Nor my Cousin who died after years of being a paraplegic, if they had their lives would not have had the impact they did.

Instead Irene stood on a faith in a God who understanding what she was going through walked with her helping her over the mountain(when she let him. , she was a do it yourself strong person) got a Masters degree, and went on as long as she was able to help those who needed it. Seeing her unwillingness to wallow in the pain helped my Brother when he had his own health problems, keep going. Then there was the man(my cousin Ron) who helped his young cousin understand that losing the use of your legs or any other part of you doesn’t mean that you give up on life or that God has forsaken you.

These two truly showed me that we have faith in a God who will not forsake us, a God who will be there with us through all our lives the good and the bad times, giving us his strength as we grow.

This is the type of faith God wants for us. Not a faith dependent on circumstances but The Faith dependant on a God who has proven to be trustworthy. A faith that will stand the test of time and not be blown away at the slightest wind.

And in Eternity when
All the mysteries are gone.
It will be clear that it was our God
Keeping us strong

From Wayne Watson’s “The Ones left Standing

Notice - The featuring of a particular member article does not constitute endorsement of every single item or point of view contained therein by each and every member of TheologyWeb leadership. We strive to have a varied cross-section of representations of differing opinions on secondary Christian issues. The only requirement for the featuring of a particular article is that said article must not contradict the essentials articulated in the TheologyWeb statement of faith found here in our Mission Statement (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/mission/)or be blatantly offensive to the Christian worldview of the site Owners.
that is a wonderful article

[RumTumTugger]

that is a wonderful article

:blush: thank you.

I only hope it is a help to others.

[spauline]

This is a beautiful and inspiring article, RTP!


I would like to add my personal faith as a Catholic. Not only are the many reasons for trials discussed there in your article and in the beautiful response of lady G, but in our Catholic faith, we can go further:
If we possess the state of grace, then we can unite our sufferings with Christ's and offer them up for others, and in the process merit graces for others, that is, help save others spiritually. This is what Our Dear Lady, the Mother of the Children of God, the Blessed and Immaculate Virgin reminded us of at Fatima: she told the little visionaries that many souls go to hell because there is no one to pray for them or offer sacrifices for them. That is what we can do in Catholicism that is different from Protestantism: not only can we pray for sinners, we can offer sufferings for them in a way that merits graces for them. Hence, if you are suffering, it just doesn't simply need to be, "God is testing me, " or "I'm growing." It can also be, "Jesus, I offer this pain up to you for such and such a soul, for their salvation."

Thank you, and God Bless you,

scott

[RumTumTugger]

This is a beautiful and inspiring article, RTP!


I would like to add my personal faith as a Catholic. Not only are the many reasons for trials discussed there in your article and in the beautiful response of lady G, but in our Catholic faith, we can go further:
If we possess the state of grace, then we can unite our sufferings with Christ's and offer them up for others, and in the process merit graces for others, that is, help save others spiritually. This is what Our Dear Lady, the Mother of the Children of God, the Blessed and Immaculate Virgin reminded us of at Fatima: she told the little visionaries that many souls go to hell because there is no one to pray for them or offer sacrifices for them. That is what we can do in Catholicism that is different from Protestantism: not only can we pray for sinners, we can offer sufferings for them in a way that merits graces for them. Hence, if you are suffering, it just doesn't simply need to be, "God is testing me, " or "I'm growing." It can also be, "Jesus, I offer this pain up to you for such and such a soul, for their salvation."

Thank you, and God Bless you,

scott

Thank you for you imput. I cannot agree with you on the salvic nature of my pain as I accept Jesus's word about it as he was on the cross "tetelestai" which is the Greek word use for what we normally transelate as "it is finished" actually it is a word used on tax reciepts back then which means Paid in full. meaning my pain is not needed to pay for anothers sins. My point in writing the article was in the hopes that those who read it might be lead to the real author of our salvation, Jesus and come to know him as someone does more then save us from our sins.

Now since this in not one of the areas for debate if you'd cared to discuss the differences between RCC and other denomonations and why I can't accept your take on what My Pain is for. please feel free to start a thread in Ecclesiology 201 let me know if you do and I'll be sure to read it and try to have reply for you.

[spauline]

Thank you for you imput. I cannot agree with you on the salvic nature of my pain as I accept Jesus's word about it as he was on the cross "tetelestai" which is the Greek word use for what we normally transelate as "it is finished" actually it is a word used on tax reciepts back then which means Paid in full. meaning my pain is not needed to pay for anothers sins. My point in writing the article was in the hopes that those who read it might be lead to the real author of our salvation, Jesus and come to know him as someone does more then save us from our sins.

Now since this in not one of the areas for debate if you'd cared to discuss the differences between RCC and other denomonations and why I can't accept your take on what My Pain is for. please feel free to start a thread in Ecclesiology 201 let me know if you do and I'll be sure to read it and try to have reply for you.

Dear RumTum,

thank you for the response. Well, actually, I didn't really want to start a debate nor push something on you guys, please forgive me if i came across like that, I just wanted to share how my Catholic faith provides for me an even more deep and beautiful meaning to human suffering. Maybe there are other members of this board who are Catholic who could take the job up, as I don't have the time really to get into a real long and drawn out discussion on the whole thing.

Anyway, God Bless you, RumTum! :smile:

In Him,
scott

[RumTumTugger]

Dear RumTum,

thank you for the response. Well, actually, I didn't really want to start a debate nor push something on you guys, please forgive me if i came across like that, I just wanted to share how my Catholic faith provides for me an even more deep and beautiful meaning to human suffering. Maybe there are other members of this board who are Catholic who could take the job up, as I don't have the time really to get into a real long and drawn out discussion on the whole thing.

Anyway, God Bless you, RumTum! :smile:

In Him,
scott

I understand Scott, I'm glad you felt comfortable sharing your thougts and did welcome them. I hope to see more of you on Tweb.


God Bless you also. :smile:
Michele.

[God_is_personal]

from Scott >

"If we possess the state of grace, then we can unite our sufferings with Christ's and offer them up for others, and in the process merit graces for others, that is, help save others spiritually."

As I read this and got to the part about Mary, I'm thinking something like, OOPS, this is getting into the Catholic thing and this is not a debate thread. BUT > Jesus says, "You are the salt of the earth," in Matthew 5:13 > so yes we can spread what we have to others, like how salt dissolving can spread its saltiness all around it...to effect things around the grain of salt, let's say. So, you, in your sufferings, most certainly can spread the grace of God to others. Grace is the effect of God's own love, I understand. While you pray and while you do anything, at all, in God's love, you are spreading the effect of this love ALL AROUND YOU, to effect others...like how grains of salt in a stew can spread their saltiness all around them...not limited to only certain areas and things around those grains. Of course, how much God's love through you will effect each person will vary, but it says God "is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe," in 1 Timothy 4:10. So God is doing SOME kind of saving good to EVERY person on earth, in one way or another, at least by giving someone something to eat, etc. So our grace ministering out IS helping to make things better in this evil world, I would offer...if not saving a soul, at least somehow helping each one.

In this world we are in a stew, and it is hot. But you can't overcook salt!!! Others around us can turn more and more to moosh; but we in God's love can endure AND be spreading how we are loving to others. God's love gives us His immunity almighty against the effects of evil, but while making us compassionate for others, rather than how I can self-righteously just criticize people for being wrong.

Also Scott shares > "That is what we can do in Catholicism that is different from Protestantism: not only can we pray for sinners, we can offer sufferings for them in a way that merits graces for them. Hence, if you are suffering, it just doesn't simply need to be, 'God is testing me, ' or 'I'm growing.' It can also be, 'Jesus, I offer this pain up to you for such and such a soul, for their salvation.'"

Well, YES ! ! ! > while I am suffering, definitely I need to NOT be just concerned about my own self. But yes it can be easy to be thinking only about how I myself am suffering, AND be so "spiritual" by noticing how I may be maturing...BUT, this also can be just concern and interest about my own self.

Jesus on the cross, so suffering and being rejected etc., was praying for others > concerned and caring about others > PRAY-ing, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they do." (in Luke 23:34) And look what happened > a few verses after this > that criminal hanging next to Jesus asks Him to remember him...this coming AFTER Jesus prayed forgiveness out to people...during His sufferings. So, Jesus in me can do this.