A confession of faith

[technomage]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.

[Darth Executor]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.

:hug:

[furay]

Whoa.

...

:twitch::stunned::twitch:

I was having such a crummy day and this thread totally redeemed it. Wow.
I am so excited for you, Justin!!! :hug: God Bless you! Best. News. Ever.

[jason]

:huh:

This is good, :thumb: but what do you mean by "not terribly orthodox christian" ?

Not intending to be inquisitorial, i'm just wondering what you mean.

You continue to be a mystery rapped in an enigma and slathered with secret sauce.

Jason

[technomage]

:huh:

This is good, :thumb: but what do you mean by "not terribly orthodox christian" ?

Not intending to be inquisitorial, i'm just wondering what you mean.

You continue to be a mystery rapped in an enigma and slathered with secret sauce.

Jason
Jason, if I knew, I'd have explained it in the OP. In one respect, "not terribly orthodox" means an explicit rejection of both Calvin and Arminius.

Beyond that, I honestly don't know.

[jason]

Jason, if I knew, I'd have explained it in the OP. In one respect, "not terribly orthodox" means an explicit rejection of both Calvin and Arminius.

Beyond that, I honestly don't know.
Where do you stand on the central Christian Doctrine of the resurrection of Christ and his saving atoning work for us ?

Besides Arminius wasn't orthodox :wink:

Jason

[Blackstar]

:huh:

This is good, :thumb: but what do you mean by "not terribly orthodox christian" ?

Not intending to be inquisitorial, i'm just wondering what you mean.

You continue to be a mystery rapped in an enigma and slathered with secret sauce.

Jason

Gee I am hungry now...

:lol:

[mossrose]

Justin. I have been praying for you.

:grin:


And will continue to do so......

Gentle :hug:

[technomage]

Where do you stand on the central Christian Doctrine of the resurrection of Christ and his saving atoning work for us ?

I believe that Jesus was crucified, but God raised him from the dead.

As for the "saving atoning work," that is God's to accomplish, and mine to submit to. I do not understand it.

Besides Arminius wasn't orthodox :wink:

Neither was Calvin. :tongue:

[jason]

I believe that Jesus was crucified, but God raised him from the dead.

As for the "saving atoning work," that is God's to accomplish, and mine to submit to. I do not understand it.
But you do accept the truth of it.

Which is the central point.

Here is an important quesiton. Was Jesus, God ?

Jason

[spitndirt]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.
Hi,

Our sin is put away in Christ's death. This is so that '...all men everywhere might seek God and find Him.' If you call on His name He will answer you - since sin has been put away in His Son. This I know because where you are now, there I once was.....call, He is faithful in His promises to us.

Peace in the Lord

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Wow, justin I am very pleased to call you a brother.

[Blackstar]

Jason, if I knew, I'd have explained it in the OP. In one respect, "not terribly orthodox" means an explicit rejection of both Calvin and Arminius.

Beyond that, I honestly don't know.


Well honestly both of those views are considered extreme by the mainstream Christians...honestly I hate the tuplit view because its so terribly arrogant for one thing...

The MAIN thing is accepting Jesus as your Savior and He died for your sins...follow His teachings and realize prayer is about having a relationship with Him. :) There is SUCH richnest in the bible to be learned...the more you study the more you realize how much you don't know yet...but its makes you so hungry for more...eager to learn more and more...never get tired of it...:) Its a wonderful and amazing book. But that is just a small part of being a Christian. The Holy Spirit will guide you on many things in your life too...alot of people have trouble realizing it the Holy Spirit pushing them to something and they post saying why is this suddenly bothering me so much? Or why do I feel such a strong urge to pray for that person or about that thing?

Learning how God talks to us..communicates with us is important too...the bible has alot to teach us on this. Many times God uses other people to tells us things, or dreams, even visions, a voice that comes as a sudden quiet thought in our mind, an article in the paper when you have a pray request on your mind...a note, a line in a book...but always check it agains the bible to make sure its from Him. Or lines up with His character. God will not go against His own word. Be aware in being a new Christian, you will come under spiritual attack, especially coming out of wiccan. The devil doesn't like to let go that easily. Temptation may come your way, doubts enter your mind, people asking you why you want to believe that crazy fairy tale Christian stuff anyway...pressure in your mind and soul. That is what spiritual warfare is excatly...its in the mind...

So any doubts, questions or concerns PLEASE go to a trusted, mature Christian or post on here...or PM somebody..don't just try to handle it alone. That is the thing about fellowshipping with other Christians that Paul talks about in the bible...going it alone, weakens one...you need that Christian fellowship and uplifting, either in prayer, or just being around them, sharing the same type of beliefs...learning, caring..etc.

Also as I am sure you know, Christians do fight among themselves...we see this even with Jesus' followers. This is not a good thing, but it shows our human sin nature and weakness. But don't let that discourage you...always keep your eyes on Jesus...not the rest of us ...we cannot be sinnless like He was and will always fail in some way or another, but Jesus never fails us. :)

God bless
BlackStar

[technomage]

But you do accept the truth of it.

Jason, if I didn't accept the truth of it, I wouldn't submit to it.

But even though I accept it ... well, I still don't understand it.

Here is an important quesiton. Was Jesus, God ?

I had to think about that for a moment ... but yes. Jesus Christ is God.

I accept the doctrine of the Trinity (even though I think the usual explanations of the doctrine relies more on philosophy than scripture). God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are One.

[jason]

Jason, if I didn't accept the truth of it, I wouldn't submit to it.

But even though I accept it ... well, I still don't understand it.



I had to think about that for a moment ... but yes. Jesus Christ is God.

I accept the doctrine of the Trinity (even though I think the usual explanations of the doctrine relies more on philosophy than scripture). God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit are One.
Good. That seems to be a crucial litmus test :thumb:

Just wondering what you meant by "not terribly orthodox".

Jason

[technomage]

Good. That seems to be a crucial litmus test :thumb:

Just wondering what you meant by "not terribly orthodox".

Jason
Jason, at this point, I'm still wondering myself! :lol:

[mossrose]

Justin, most of us don't understand a whole pile of stuff.

But that is where faith comes in.

:smile:

[Xavier]

Welcome to the Family... :hug:

[One Bad Pig]

Wow, justin I am very pleased to call you a brother.
:that: I'll even forgive you for roasting me.

[Dave G]

Welcome, Justin. These are the best news I could hear.

With love,
Dave

[Taran Wanderer]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.
... Wow! I'm curious to hear about your journey from Wicca to where you are now. Welcome ... back, I guess. :smile: Didn't you grow up in a Christian family?

[Darth Executor]

In one respect, "not terribly orthodox" means an explicit rejection of both Calvin and Arminius.

Then you're orthodox. He's one of us boys, bring out the booze.
:ale:

[A Cup of No]

Wow. Not only a brother in the Brotherhood of the Cups, and not only in humanity, but now in a new way. I am so very glad.

[dizzle]

Oh my goodness. The air on my arms is raised considering one of the last posts I had made to you concerning my discernment on the spiritual issues going on in your life. I have been so busy I would have missed this thread, I am so glad that I did not.

<mumbles - guess now I gotta discuss theonomy with you :wink:>

[ApologiaPhoenix]

Justin! I am so thrilled! I was just writing my blog and Rob showed me this and I had to put that in there. This is just so very excellent! I am just smiling so much right now! Welcome aboard! Maybe we can discuss the philosophy of the Trinity sometime!

[RumTumTugger]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.

:glomp: :justin: Brother. :smile:

[semmie]

welcome, friend; welcome, brother. :smile:

[Rayado]

This news is both exciting and humbling at the same time. Welcome to the family! :hug:

[studyhound]

:twitch:

Well well, welcome to the family...:teeth:

[Teallaura]

Welcome home, bro!!! :hug:


Somebody call the slaughterhouse, we need a calf dressed! (You're nuts if you think I'm killing a little calf - I'd never get past the doe eyes!) Okay, we need robe, sandals and a ring... good thing there are still after Halloween sales going on!

Par-ty!!!!! :yipee:


Seriously, welcome back! :hug:

[luv1another]

:woohoo: :hug: :cheer: :woohoo: (((((((((((((((((Justin)))))))))))))))))) :wow: totally awesome :hug:

I am glad you have come back justin :hug:

[Calvinist4Him]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.

The hammer of God will prevail...

...Soli Deo Gloria! :amen:

I "sense" a bit of reluctance, so I'm trying not to get too excited...but it sounds like the builder of new temples might be working on you. :woohoo:

I'll share a song with you by the late Rich Mullins that I really like...

The Color Green
Rich Mullins
As Recorded on A Liturgy, a Legacy, and a Ragamuffin Band

And the moon is a sliver of silver
Like a shaving that fell on the floor of a Carpenter's shop
And every house must have it's builder
And I awoke in the house of God
Where the windows are mornings and evenings
Stretched from the sun
Across the sky north to south
And on my way to early meeting
I heard the rocks crying out
I heard the rocks crying out

Be praised for all Your tenderness by these works of Your hands
Suns that rise and rains that fall to bless and bring to life Your land
Look down upon this winter wheat and be glad that You have made
Blue for the sky and the color green that fills these fields with praise

And the wrens have returned and they're nesting
In the hollow of that oak where his heart once had been
And he lifts up his arms in a blessing for being born again
And the streams are all swollen with winter
Winter unfrozen and free to run away now
And I'm amazed when I remember
Who it was that built this house
And with the rocks I cry out

Be praised for all Your tenderness by these works of Your hands
Suns that rise and rains that fall to bless and bring to life Your land
Look down upon this winter wheat and be glad that You have made
Blue for the sky and the color green

Be praised for all Your tenderness by these works of Your hands
Suns that rise and rains that fall to bless and bring to life Your land
Look down upon this winter wheat and be glad that You have made
Blue for the sky and the color green that fills these fields with praise

Copyright 1993 - Edward Grant, Inc.

[{Tim}]

This is very cool. :teeth:

:hug: Congratulations Justin, you will make a splendid addition to the family. :hehe:

[Xelsorsior]

I'm at a loss as to what faith you are confessing. We all have many faith's. We believe that the sun will arrise tomorrow and that it will gat dark sometime at the end of the day. We believe our mode of transportation will work when we want it to, or we say something to something or someone when it doesn't work, being it cursing, swearing or praying. Your stance in faith is that as Jesus stated long ago, still applying for us today. I wish that you were cold or hot, not lukewarm, whereas I must spew you out of my mouth. Take a stand my friend and be cold or hot, be what you want to be and glorify our Father which art in Heaven. What you believe or don't believe is irrelevant, but believe something with all of your heart. I pray for the things that I need and want and most of all give thanks for the things that I have, namely life itself.

[{Tim}]

I'm at a loss as to what faith you are confessing. We all have many faith's. We believe that the sun will arrise tomorrow and that it will gat dark sometime at the end of the day. We believe our mode of transportation will work when we want it to, or we say something to something or someone when it doesn't work, being it cursing, swearing or praying. Your stance in faith is that as Jesus stated long ago, still applying for us today. I wish that you were cold or hot, not lukewarm, whereas I must spew you out of my mouth. Take a stand my friend and be cold or hot, be what you want to be and glorify our Father which art in Heaven. What you believe or don't believe is irrelevant, but believe something with all of your heart. I pray for the things that I need and want and most of all give thanks for the things that I have, namely life itself.
:huh:

[themuzicman]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.
Welcome, brother

[Zipperhead]

Somebody call Robert Stack...we have an update.

We know what "cup" you're drinkin from.

[James Peter]

Figure I should weigh in as well and say its good that you've realised where you've stood all along. Well, maybe not all along but for as long as I've known you you've been pretty close to the line and well... yeah.

Its good to have you claiming allegiance on 'my' side now. I look forward to working through all sorts of things with you in the next few months. Hopefully you'll realise that being 'not terribly orthodox' by the standards of contemporary christianity isn't such a bad thing. I'm assuming by that you mean that your view of scripture is still similar to mine (inspired by God, written by man, not inerrant) and all the doctrinal consequences that that can have. But as others have pointed out what matters isn't saying that the bible is the 'word of god' in a simplistic sense but rather saying that Jesus was both Christ and God and that his death was for our liberation and salvation...

So, is this more than just realising where you stand? Has there been a major shift on any particular issue? If so, what caused it? If not, what opened your eyes? And what is your stance now on 'other' 'reflections' of God and 'revelations'? Do you still think that other people can call God God by other names? Or...? Just wanting to know what is going on in your head, I'm smiling anyway. Hopefully it won't be a painful inquisition but will be useful for both you and the rest of us...

[eudyptes]

...this thread made my morning. Welcome to the family, brother.

[Assyrian]

You've made my day Justin. Welcome home.

I believe that Jesus was crucified, but God raised him from the dead.

As for the "saving atoning work," that is God's to accomplish, and mine to submit to. I do not understand it.

That sounds about right. I don't understand it either.

:ale: :hug: :joy: :yipee:

Blessings Assyrian

[Michelle]

I believe that Jesus was crucified, but God raised him from the dead.

As for the "saving atoning work," that is God's to accomplish, and mine to submit to. I do not understand it.


This is so cool. Praise God!

[Abigail]

Welcome Justin :smile:

[Darth Executor]

The hammer of God will prevail...


Yeah, umm, I want that back.

[Taran Wanderer]

I'll share a song with you by the late Rich Mullins that I really like...
I love that song! And the color green itself. :smile:

[Spiritus Naturae]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.

Welcome home, brother! Now I am really going to pester you with the IM's! :grin: :lol:

:joy: :yipee: :joy: :yipee:

Have a cabbage of Christian kindness! :spiritus:

This is truly wonderful news...God bless you in your journey, brother Justin. I will pray that your faith be strengthened more and more and that God's Spirit guide you in your walk, keeping you steady on that narrow path. :pray:

[Bill the Cat]

:shocked:

Guess you need a new smilie... how about :ban2:

:lol:

[norwegen]

Greetings, Justin.

I don't really know you that well, but from the few posts of yours that I've read, I'd say you're rather insightful and levelheaded. I, for one, believe that you're capable of discovering for yourself how logical Christianity is. You may also sense that it can be intimidating (I recommend that you read Seeds of Change (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0917143035/104-7408473-9889568?v=glance&n=283155&v=glance), by Kerry Livgren (from the band Kansas)). My prayer is that you discover once and for all how life-changing it is.

If you're not sure that you're a Christian, I would implore you find a church (not some mainline, lukewarm church as described in Revelation, but a Christian church - one comprised largely, if not chiefly, of a body of born-again believers), make friends, ask questions, and invite the Lord into your life.

Welcome, Brother.

[Calvinist4Him]

Yeah, umm, I want that back.

:lmbo:

:teeth: "Umm Thor, it was a gift from Loki. Can you tell me the secret to picking it up?" :blush:


























But seriously, it was a figure of speech. :wink:

[Cynic Sage]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.
Wonka's Tasty Fudge! :stunned:

It's great to hear this. :smile:

Profanity, even thinly disguised profanity, is not allowed.

[Palinator]

Well, maybe I'm a little later than some of the others, but

:greenspray: :lol: :teeth: :smile: :hug: :flowers: :smile: :smile: :cheers: :cool: :woohoo: :woohoo: :thumb: :yes: :badger: :bunny: :girl: :candle:

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((:hug5::hug3::shug::yhug::glomp:Justin))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

I am so exceedingly happy about that. :teeth: :ahem: That's awesome. Welcome back to the family.

Your sis in Christ :teeth:
A Cup of Joan

[tiffanyh]

Wow Justin, as someone already said - this post just made my day. Perhaps week even. Among other things, I have always been drawn by the honest manner in which you seem to deal with the knowledge that you gain in your studies. And I'm thrilled for you that those studies lead you back to this place. God is good. :smile:

:hug:

[JardinPrayer]

Justin...

Welcome back, brother. I applaud you for not being daunted by the "litmus tests" of some, even in the midst of your uncertainty.

You have confessed that Jesus is Lord and that He was resurrected by God. Hallelujah. What I have not heard you say here is where you stand at the moment on whether you have welcomed Jesus into your heart as your personal saviour...that being the reason for His birth, life, death, and resurrection. That is the very essence of what it means to call oneself "Christian," from where I stand. Figuring out where you are on this issue may help clear up some of the uncertainty. And, to echo Mossrose, there will always be things we do not understand. God provides for this in His word by letting us know that His ways are mysterious, not entirely revealed to us, and much higher than our own ways. Your confession of faith in spite of uncertainty is - in itself - a gift from God...it is part of what I celebrate in my own spiritual life. "Faith is the...evidence of things yet unseen." (Hebrews 11:1)

I'm sure you know by now that you have bretheren here who will help nurture and minister to you in your Christian walk...and who will continue to love and appreciate you wherever this journey leads. Please count me among them.

~Lynn

[GoBahnsen]

Justin...

Welcome back, brother. I applaud you for not being daunted by the "litmus tests" of some, even in the midst of your uncertainty.

You have confessed that Jesus is Lord and that He was resurrected by God. Hallelujah. What I have not heard you say here is where you stand at the moment on whether you have welcomed Jesus into your heart as your personal saviour...that being the reason for His birth, life, death, and resurrection. That is the very essence of what it means to call oneself "Christian," from where I stand. Figuring out where you are on this issue may help clear up some of the uncertainty. And, to echo Mossrose, there will always be things we do not understand. God provides for this in His word by letting us know that His ways are mysterious, not entirely revealed to us, and much higher than our own ways. Your confession of faith in spite of uncertainty is - in itself - a gift from God...it is part of what I celebrate in my own spiritual life. "Faith is the...evidence of things yet unseen." (Hebrews 11:1)

I'm sure you know by now that you have bretheren here who will help nurture and minister to you in your Christian walk...and who will continue to love and appreciate you wherever this journey leads. Please count me among them.

~LynnThe Bible doesn't teach this "welcoming Jesus in" as personal Savior. The Bible merely calls people to believe the Gospel. When a person believes the Gospel it demonstrates, not so much a welcoming in of Jesus, but rather Jesus welcoming the repentant sinner. It is His calling. We love Him because He first loved us individually, sheep called out by name.

Jesus is the Savior of all men, even unbelievers, though many will never see His salvation through unbelief, there remains no other Savior for men.

I'm curious Justin, do you call the God of Reformation theology a monster, tyrant, despot...as is the manner of some here?

[Rayado]

The Bible doesn't teach this "welcoming Jesus in" as personal Savior. The Bible merely calls people to believe the Gospel. When a person believes the Gospel it demonstrates, not so much a welcoming in of Jesus, but rather Jesus welcoming the repentant sinner. It is His calling. We love Him because He first loved us individually, sheep called out by name.

Jesus is the Savior of all men, even unbelievers, though many will never see His salvation through unbelief, there remains no other Savior for men.

I'm curious Justin, do you call the God of Reformation theology a monster, tyrant, despot...as is the manner of some here?
:doh:

[dizzle]

GB, I really think going down the road of Calvinism - Arminianism is out of place and out of proper taste for this thread, dontcha think? There will be plenty of time for that in Theology 201.

[technomage]

I'm curious Justin, do you call the God of Reformation theology a monster, tyrant, despot...as is the manner of some here?

Is Christ divided? Was Calvin crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Calvin?

I do not follow the God of Reformation theology, GoBahnsen, for Reformation Theology is a man-made doctrine. I follow Jesus Christ.

[Anoetos]

Justin,

Some advice from father Luther:

"Trust the Bible, it will not lie to you."

Welcome home, brother.

[dizzle]

Good rejoinder Justin.

[Anoetos]

One more thing, don't worry about being qualified.

No one is qualified.

[Sparko]

I have been out of town, so I just saw this!


God really is an awesome God.

I always had a feeling from you Justin, like you were almost one of us, but just not ready to commit, and now you have!

Welcome Brother!!! what a wonderful Christmas this will be!!

:woohoo:

[Meh_Gerbil]

... I'm confused.

Does that mean I don't get to be turned into a frog anymore?

*sigh*

:blush:

[Jaltus]

Justin,

You can always call down fire from heaven instead.

[Amazing Rando]

Justin,

You can always call down fire from heaven instead.

:no:

51As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. 52And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; 53but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. 54When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" 55But Jesus turned and rebuked them, 56and they went to another village.

:hehe:

[Meh_Gerbil]

:no:

51As the time approached for him to be taken up to heaven, Jesus resolutely set out for Jerusalem. 52And he sent messengers on ahead, who went into a Samaritan village to get things ready for him; 53but the people there did not welcome him, because he was heading for Jerusalem. 54When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them?" 55But Jesus turned and rebuked them, 56and they went to another village.

:hehe:

HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Someone got pwned by Rando!
Now we know where he got the 'amazing' tag!

[Jaltus]

I never said it was a good idea. Besides:

2 Kings 1:6-14 6 And they said to him, "There came a man to meet us, and said to us, 'Go back to the king who sent you, and say to him, Thus says the LORD, Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are sending to inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron? Therefore you shall not come down from the bed to which you have gone up, but you shall surely die.'" 7 He said to them, "What kind of man was he who came to meet you and told you these things?" 8 They answered him, "He wore a garment of hair, with a belt of leather about his waist." And he said, "It is Elijah the Tishbite." 9 Then the king sent to him a captain of fifty men with his fifty. He went up to Elijah, who was sitting on the top of a hill, and said to him, "O man of God, the king says, 'Come down.'" 10 But Elijah answered the captain of fifty, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. 11 Again the king sent to him another captain of fifty men with his fifty. And he answered and said to him, "O man of God, this is the king's order, 'Come down quickly!'" 12 But Elijah answered them, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. 13 Again the king sent the captain of a third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up and came and fell on his knees before Elijah and entreated him, "O man of God, please let my life, and the life of these fifty servants of yours, be precious in your sight. 14 Behold, fire came down from heaven and consumed the two former captains of fifty men with their fifties, but now let my life be precious in your sight."

1 Kings 18:22-39 22 Then Elijah said to the people, "I, even I only, am left a prophet of the LORD, but Baal's prophets are 450 men. 23 Let two bulls be given to us, and let them choose one bull for themselves and cut it in pieces and lay it on the wood, but put no fire to it. And I will prepare the other bull and lay it on the wood and put no fire to it. 24 And you call upon the name of your god, and I will call upon the name of the LORD, and the God who answers by fire, he is God." And all the people answered, "It is well spoken." 25 Then Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, "Choose for yourselves one bull and prepare it first, for you are many, and call upon the name of your god, but put no fire to it." 26 And they took the bull that was given them, and they prepared it and called upon the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, "O Baal, answer us!" But there was no voice, and no one answered. And they limped around the altar that they had made. 27 And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, "Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened." 28 And they cried aloud and cut themselves after their custom with swords and lances, until the blood gushed out upon them. 29 And as midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the oblation, but there was no voice. No one answered; no one paid attention. 30 Then Elijah said to all the people, "Come near to me." And all the people came near to him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that had been thrown down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of the LORD came, saying, "Israel shall be your name," 32 and with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD. And he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two seahs of seed. 33 And he put the wood in order and cut the bull in pieces and laid it on the wood. And he said, "Fill four jars with water and pour it on the burnt offering and on the wood." 34 And he said, "Do it a second time." And they did it a second time. And he said, "Do it a third time." And they did it a third time. 35 And the water ran around the altar and filled the trench also with water. 36 And at the time of the offering of the oblation, Elijah the prophet came near and said, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel, and that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your word. 37 Answer me, O LORD, answer me, that this people may know that you, O LORD, are God, and that you have turned their hearts back." 38 Then the fire of the LORD fell and consumed the burnt offering and the wood and the stones and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. 39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces and said, "The LORD, he is God; the LORD, he is God."

You need to know your OT as well as your NT, padawan.

[Amazing Rando]

I never said it was a good idea. Besides:

2 Kings 1:6-14 6 And they said to him, "There came a man to meet us, and said to us, 'Go back to the king who sent you, and say to him, Thus says the LORD, Is it because there is no God in Israel that you are sending to inquire of Baal-zebub, the god of Ekron? Therefore you shall not come down from the bed to which you have gone up, but you shall surely die.'" 7 He said to them, "What kind of man was he who came to meet you and told you these things?" 8 They answered him, "He wore a garment of hair, with a belt of leather about his waist." And he said, "It is Elijah the Tishbite." 9 Then the king sent to him a captain of fifty men with his fifty. He went up to Elijah, who was sitting on the top of a hill, and said to him, "O man of God, the king says, 'Come down.'" 10 But Elijah answered the captain of fifty, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then fire came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. 11 Again the king sent to him another captain of fifty men with his fifty. And he answered and said to him, "O man of God, this is the king's order, 'Come down quickly!'" 12 But Elijah answered them, "If I am a man of God, let fire come down from heaven and consume you and your fifty." Then the fire of God came down from heaven and consumed him and his fifty. 13 Again the king sent the captain of a third fifty with his fifty. And the third captain of fifty went up and came and fell on his knees before Elijah and entreated him, "O man of God, please let my life, and the life of these fifty servants of yours, be precious in your sight. 14 Behold, fire came down from heaven and consumed the two former captains of fifty men with their fifties, but now let my life be precious in your sight."

1 Kings 18:22-39 22 Then Elijah said to the people, "I, even I only, am left a prophet of the LORD, but Baal's prophets are 450 men. 23 Let two bulls be given to us, and let them choose one bull for themselves and cut it in pieces and lay it on the wood, but put no fire to it. And I will prepare the other bull and lay it on the wood and put no fire to it. 24 And you call upon the name of your god, and I will call upon the name of the LORD, and the God who answers by fire, he is God." And all the people answered, "It is well spoken." 25 Then Elijah said to the prophets of Baal, "Choose for yourselves one bull and prepare it first, for you are many, and call upon the name of your god, but put no fire to it." 26 And they took the bull that was given them, and they prepared it and called upon the name of Baal from morning until noon, saying, "O Baal, answer us!" But there was no voice, and no one answered. And they limped around the altar that they had made. 27 And at noon Elijah mocked them, saying, "Cry aloud, for he is a god. Either he is musing, or he is relieving himself, or he is on a journey, or perhaps he is asleep and must be awakened." 28 And they cried aloud and cut themselves after their custom with swords and lances, until the blood gushed out upon them. 29 And as midday passed, they raved on until the time of the offering of the oblation, but there was no voice. No one answered; no one paid attention. 30 Then Elijah said to all the people, "Come near to me." And all the people came near to him. And he repaired the altar of the LORD that had been thrown down. 31 Elijah took twelve stones, according to the number of the tribes of the sons of Jacob, to whom the word of the LORD came, saying, "Israel shall be your name," 32 and with the stones he built an altar in the name of the LORD. And he made a trench about the altar, as great as would contain two seahs of seed. 33 And he put the wood in order and cut the bull in pieces and laid it on the wood. And he said, "Fill four jars with water and pour it on the burnt offering and on the wood." 34 And he said, "Do it a second time." And they did it a second time. And he said, "Do it a third time." And they did it a third time. 35 And the water ran around the altar and filled the trench also with water. 36 And at the time of the offering of the oblation, Elijah the prophet came near and said, "O LORD, God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, let it be known this day that you are God in Israel, and that I am your servant, and that I have done all these things at your word. 37 Answer me, O LORD, answer me, that this people may know that you, O LORD, are God, and that you have turned their hearts back." 38 Then the fire of the LORD fell and consumed the burnt offering and the wood and the stones and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench. 39 And when all the people saw it, they fell on their faces and said, "The LORD, he is God; the LORD, he is God."

You need to know your OT as well as your NT, padawan.

You should check the variant readings of the NT:

54When the disciples James and John saw this, they asked, "Lord, do you want us to call fire down from heaven to destroy them[c]?" 55But Jesus turned and rebuked them, 56and[d] they went to another village.

Footnotes

[c]Luke 9:54 Some manuscripts: them, even as Elijah did
[d]Luke 9:56 Some manuscripts: them. And he said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of, for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them." 56 And

:b_woot:

[GoBahnsen]

GB, I really think going down the road of Calvinism - Arminianism is out of place and out of proper taste for this thread, dontcha think? There will be plenty of time for that in Theology 201.Sorry, I didn't even check the forum, as Justin put this in as a link from theo 201. But you know me Dee Dee, I'm not usually teaming up with the rest of the members on issues such as this.

I'm encouraged to see Justin moving in the right direction, but I'm also of the belief, that certain compass bearings will lead further from the right direction as they move out from the starting point. So while Justin is getting plenty of pats on the back... from me he will get caution. Not because I'm mean spirited, but because Christians do well to be careful with what it is that they exactly believe.

Personally, I think the members here have acted with a little too much happy haste. Lately, I've come to respect Justin more and more, and now with this direction back toward Christianity, I'm encouraged but still cautious.

Anyway, by apologies for going "theo 201" in Christianity 201. Keep studying to show yourself approved by God Justin, a workman that need not be ashamed.

God Bless, GB

[GoBahnsen]

Is Christ divided? Was Calvin crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Calvin?

I do not follow the God of Reformation theology, GoBahnsen, for Reformation Theology is a man-made doctrine. I follow Jesus Christ.Sorry, but the site owner has requested that I not get into this with you here in this thread. Tell you what Justin, I'll start a thread in theo 201 with your name on it...how's that?

[Meh_Gerbil]

Sorry, but the site owner has requested that I not get into this with you here in this thread. Tell you what Justin, I'll start a thread in theo 201 with your name on it...how's that?

Maybe Justin should just get up every morning for the next 10 years and revel in the fact that he is loved by our Saviour and just forget the whole Calvinism debate.

That is my recommendation.

He's had a hard, long, ardous journey -- let the man rest and find the peace that passes understanding.

[GoBahnsen]

Maybe Justin should just get up every morning for the next 10 years and revel in the fact that he is loved by our Saviour and just forget the whole Calvinism debate.

That is my recommendation.

He's had a hard, long, ardous journey -- let the man rest and find the peace that passes understanding.Except that Calvinism (not that I call myself by that man's name) might be the right understanding of that which forms the basis for a the peace that passes all understanding.

Anyway, I started a new thread in theo 201 with Justin's name on it. I think I will copy and split this post off and move it in there where I will make a few more comments about your post, MG.

I don't want to side-track this thread. Everyone please carry on congratulating Justin for making a good turn and "not being terribly orthodox". If that sounds good to you, I'll try to stay out of the party.

[JardinPrayer]

:huh:

I'm all for going back to "happy haste." Justin has declared that Jesus died for him...at least that's what I took from his last post. To me, that is both believing the gospel AND welcoming Jesus as his personal saviour...one in the same, IMHO. Ah, semantics.

So, in the spirit of happy haste, :yipee: :yipee: :yipee: :yipee: :yipee:

Oh, and you'll need to start a new Q&A thread. Something like, "Ask the Prodigal Son," would look good on you!

[Darth Executor]

I'm all for leaving Justin alone.

[TuckEverlasting]

I'm all for leaving Justin alone.

:amen: Seriously. :yes:

[Alien]

Oh boy.

Litmus tests, "no true Christian" fallacies, simple friendly welcomes .... we're a strange lot aren't we? Time to reflect on the wonder of a God who somehow manages to love us all, maybe?

Justin, I liked and respected you as a Wiccan, I'm sure I will continue to do so as a Christian. I hope this fork in your path leads you closer to where you need to be.

God bless you,
Tony

[JardinPrayer]

:yipee: again! My two favorite non-Christian TWebbers who came to Christ showing up in the same thread! :yipee:

Leave Justin alone? Didn't he start a thread? Doesn't that mean he's open to discussion? Leave him alone? What kind of body of Christ would we be if we did that? I say hug the bugger till he begs for breath!

:hug1:

[TuckEverlasting]

Leave him alone? What kind of body of Christ would we be if we did that?

'Do unto others as you would have done unto you.' No one better ever try to 'hug me 'till I beg for breath' or I will destroy them with my Force powers.

[eudyptes]

:huh:

I'm all for going back to "happy haste." Justin has declared that Jesus died for him...at least that's what I took from his last post. To me, that is both believing the gospel AND welcoming Jesus as his personal saviour...one in the same, IMHO. Ah, semantics.

So, in the spirit of happy haste, :yipee: :yipee: :yipee: :yipee: :yipee:



:yeah:

[Mark_S]

Justin,

Welcome brother!

:hug:

[James Peter]

Well, I'd like to know the answes to the questions I asked but I'm more than happy to wait until Justin is ready to publish his new beliefs. Its more out of curiosity than anything else, I just always found his position intriguing and so i want to know how it has changed. But, all in good time. Maybe we should party this week and then get down to the serious stuff when we get over the hangovers :wink:

[magus]

Hey, FWIW, I think it's a great thing! I don't know you personally, ACOM, but I look forwards to seeing you revealed through your posts. Anyhows, welcome to the family.

If a man believes in his heart and confesses with his mouth (or keyboard, in this case) that Jesus is Lord, if he repents, then surely the Holy Spirit is in him.

Love in Christ,
Magus

[Solly]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.

Wow Justin, this was a nice surprise to come back to. We'll have to talk sometime when the Elders and catechists are out of ear shot.

[Amazing Rando]

Wow Justin, this was a nice surprise to come back to. We'll have to talk sometime when the Elders and catechists are out of ear shot.

SOLLY! :hi:

Welcome back!

[technomage]

Wow Justin, this was a nice surprise to come back to. We'll have to talk sometime when the Elders and catechists are out of ear shot.
SOLLY! :hug:

Welcome back! :joy:

[JardinPrayer]

Oh, so now it's all about Solly, is it? Just because no one has seen hide nor hair of the guy in God-knows-how-long?


Well, okay.......:yipee: SOLLY!!!!! :yipee:

[Arnold]

Happy birthday Justin!


Oh... you're still all sticky - go wash yourself off will ya? :hehe:

[MuggleOrSquib]

Replying to OP:
Wow!! Welcome! May God bless and guide you...
I really like an old Ugaritic blessing(?):
Ilu yashallimuka wayaghuruka (or more exactly IL YShLMK WYGhRK)
May God give you peace and guard you,

Be Well,
Bob Griffin

[salvationfound]

Replying to the OP.

Wow! Cooooooool! AWESOME!....and such and such. No really that's
awesome to hear Justin. I'll pray for your continued journey. Although to be
honest I'm not really all that surprised and I'm surprised that I'm not
surprised. Anyway God bless on wherever this journey of yours takes you.

Now if only you could also teach yourself to realize that salvationfound is
the best looking, smartest and coolest person living on this planet and your
transformation would be complete.

[roboticist]

Justin--congrats and welcome to the family. That also answers something that had been bothering me--since I just started a few weeks ago, I could have sworn that the first post I saw from you had the "pagan" symbol, but everything I've seen you post since has the "christian" symbol. I thought I was schitzo.

Though I've only been here for a short time, you an I seem simpatico on many issues, and you always seem to be intelligent, calm, level-headed, and reserved. I look forward to many more discussions with you in your new life.

But even though I accept it ... well, I still don't understand it.

When you do, you let the rest of us know. :teeth:

Just don't shake from that important foundation of faith, pray often, and--most importantly--listen for the answers! You do that, and all will be well.

[Krusader]

I've been wrestling with this for a while ... not because I didn't want to make the change, but because while I desire to serve the Creator with all my heart, I wasn't sure if I was qualified to serve in this fashion.

Am I a Christian? I do not know. I'm probably not a terribly orthodox Christian--but then again, I wasn't a terribly orthodox Wiccan. But from where I stand, and from the very best of my understanding, the symbol in my postbit is not the important issue--the important issue is the relationship between God and me.

Maybe it's time to look at that relationship in a different context.

Hi Cup, and God bless you. You know, I wasn't a very "orthodox" Christian when I was saved years ago. In fact, I remember saying to my closest friend, "well, I might be a Christian now, but hell will freeze over before I'll believe the Bible is infallible." Who would have believed that?

God takes us from where we are and uses us as He will. I'll pray for you. Carol

[learning]

Hey, just a quick Hi and welcome in public Justin. I hadn't even read what you believed, only saw the cross, and knew you were wanting to take a stand for Christ, when I sent you a PM.
But if you believe HE is God, and hey, 'who' really understands 'God' becoming 'one of us' to Redeem us!?! It is a wonderful humility HE took, and thankful am I He did, and thankful am I that you are back in the fold. Bless ya!

[studyhound]

Just a quick question for us christians.....what are we going to do with the green wood we were saving for CoM?

:shifty:

[technomage]

Just a quick question for us christians.....what are we going to do with the green wood we were saving for CoM?

:shifty:
Heck, you've ben saving it so long it's seasoned by now.

Which leaves one obvious answer ....







S'MORES!

[RumTumTugger]

Good Idea Justin, I'll bring the Chocolate bars.

[Sparko]

Well Justin, I guess you can't use this smiley anymore...

:justin2:


So here's a new one:

:justin3:

[Aletheia]

I'm really late coming into this thread but "Wow! Great news! Welcome back from another ex-pagan!" :teeth:

[tiffanyh]

Well Justin, I guess you can't use this smiley anymore...

:justin2:


So here's a new one:

:justin3:

Awww, that's cute. Question though, there's a "justin2" and "justin3" smiley, but no "justin1"?

[technomage]

Awww, that's cute. Question though, there's a "justin2" and "justin3" smiley, but no "justin1"?
The "justin1" smiley would have been :me:. Then Sparko made :zap2:, which always makes me think "Oops ... one little mistake...." :hehe:

[technomage]

The "justin1" smiley would have been :me:. Then Sparko made :zap2:, which always makes me think "Oops ... one little mistake...." :hehe:

Hey, since "me" :me: was the old smiley, how about "newme" :newme: for the new one.


And thanks, John ... I think that will do wonderfully! :newme:

[tiffanyh]

The "justin1" smiley would have been :me:. Then Sparko made :zap2:, which always makes me think "Oops ... one little mistake...." :hehe:

I think we need a "justin4" that includes that cute little frog somehow too. :wink: