Thought I would check in as well......

[jo1952]

Part 1 of 4 Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.

[jo1952]

Part 2 of 4

The LDS believe that the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the Gospel. So why, then, does the Church also teach things that are NOT even in the BoM? What is with all of the ordinances and temples and work for the dead about? These are things given to the people once they rejected the simple Gospel message. Just as with Moses, when the people rejected the invitation to meet with the Lord, Moses then gave them the Law to follow. The people wanted “religion” and all the trappings that would make them “special” to God----even though God is NOT a respecter of persons, and ALL are alike unto God. So it was with Joseph; once the people rejected the Gospel message, Joseph gave them the religion that they wanted. Well….they got it!!! They got plenty of “law”---even though Christ told us that He had fulfilled the Law. Joseph even taught that he was told to NOT join any religion---but we wound up with yet another one (and that because that is what the people wanted---and to not interfere with their free will, Joseph gave it to them!!)? What did Isaiah have to say about how this is an abomination to the Lord?



BTW, Sodom and Gomorrah are representative of any who look like this:

Ezekiel 16: 49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.

It is iniquity to desire inequality when God is not a respecter of persons and all are alike unto God! Those things are the idols in our hearts…..the desire to appear special or chosen in the eyes of the Lord. However, if people desire it, God allows Prophets to give people what they want. This iniquity then becomes a stumbling block for them.


ANY who think they are special and/or chosen in any way are guilty of iniquity. What does Christ say about this?

[jo1952]

Part 3 of 4

Specifically, what about the work for the dead? If you believe the Book of Mormon then why does the Church concentrate on genealogy? Here is what Nephi said about it:

1 Nephi 6:1 And now I, Nephi, do not give the genealogy of my fathers in this part of my record; neither at any time shall I give it after upon these plates which I am writing; for it is given in the record which has been kept by my father; wherefore, I do not write it in this work.
2 For it sufficeth me to say that we are descendants of Joseph.
3 And it mattereth not to me that I am particular to give a full account of all the things of my father, for they cannot be written upon these plates, for I desire the room that I may write of the things of God.
4 For the fulness of mine intent is that I may persuade men to come unto the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, and be saved.
5 Wherefore, the things which are pleasing unto the world I do not write, but the things which are pleasing unto God and unto those who are not of the world.

Did you catch that??? Nephi is NOT giving genealogy because genealogy is something that is pleasing unto the world. Nephi is going to write about the things which are pleasing unto GOD and unto those who are not of this world!!!!!! Oh the money spent to build large and spacious buildings for something which is only pleasing to the world……..

Do you not see that the Book of Mormon points continually to the modern Church? Joseph told us that the Church was already under condemnation here:

D&C 84:55 Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation.
56 And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all.
57 And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written—

It remains under condemnation. President Benson said this:

Ezra Taft Benson, https://www.lds.org/general-conferen...y=condemnation

Some of the early missionaries, on returning home, were reproved by the Lord in section 84 of the Doctrine and Covenants because they had treated lightly the Book of Mormon. As a result, their minds had been darkened. The Lord said that this kind of treatment of the Book of Mormon brought the whole Church under condemnation, even all of the children of Zion. And then the Lord said, “And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon.” (See D&C 84:54–57.) Are we still under that condemnation?

Though Benson recognized what was said about how it was that the Church was under condemnation….and he realized that somehow the Church needed to do something about this through efforts involving the Book of Mormon, I don’t think that the Church believes what the Book of Mormon actually teaches. She sees it in accordance with the other things She teaches----thus not really having the eyes to see what the BoM SAYS; but rather interpreting what She thinks it says through the perception of incorporating all of the other things the Church teaches which are NOT in the BoM (and regardless of how the Church SAYS the entire Gospel is in the BoM!). The manifesting of the idols in their hearts of iniquity (the inequality they feel of being special and chosen---after all, just look at all of the things the Lord has given US to do which no one else has been given to do!!) are a stumbling block. She remains under condemnation; and doesn’t even understand why!

[jo1952]

Part 4 of 4

Fortunately, the Father doesn’t work in accordance with the Church’s time table of Her continuation of being under condemnation. The Father’s work goes forth despite what the rest of the world thinks, believes, or does. The Father’s mysteries that were sealed up before the foundation of the world are being revealed right now!

Christ’s message was very simple….it is basically to “do unto others as you would have others do unto you”! When He returns, He will set up a perfect Government which establishes the Peace we seek while participating inside of mortality. It will be none too soon, because “Babylon is fallen”! We are only beginning to see the “wrath of God” being poured down upon the inhabitants of the Earth. The purpose of mortality (our third estate) is to allow us to be able to experience our own personal fullness of joy in our second estate of existence in this round of our eternal existence. Once mortality has completed its purpose for us, we will no longer need to participate in it. We will, though, continue to exist in our second estate until such time as we no longer desire to exist there….and we will then return to our first estate----where we have been existing all along.

All of that said….there is no way I can prove any of what I believe. I believe it is the purpose of mortality to experience this phase of eternal existence under a veil of forgetfulness. As such, we are currently required to experience mortality in “faith”; IOW, without real knowledge. The next phase of mortality (which our “Christ” will usher in) will be without that veil; IOW, with real knowledge. The purpose of mortality is wise; and we are all exactly right where we need to be.
Believing my interpretations of doctrine…or in any of my beliefs is not necessary. I am merely sharing a portion of what I now believe. Christ taught:

John 12: 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

[Bill the Cat]

... as has my husband, Frank, who used to post here as “Franktalk”.

After all he supposedly did to you, you are still married?

[jo1952]

After all he supposedly did to you, you are still married?

Hahahaha!! Remind me....what all did he supposedly do to me?? I could still get even---but you didn't hear that from me.....

How the heck are you???

[Cow Poke]

[Cow Poke]

Jo,

I'm glad you are alive and kicking (albeit, of course, with health issues). I have thought of you often, and have been praying for you from time to time.

I don't see any point in debating you, as I believe you are even more confused than before.

I still believe Frank is a fraud, and has caused you great harm.

I wish for you the true peace that only comes from Christ. All that you need is in Christ Jesus. Joseph Smith adds nothing to that.

Col 2:6 Therefore, as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, overflowing with gratitude. 8 Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elemental forces of the world, and not based on Christ.

[jo1952]

Jo,

I'm glad you are alive and kicking (albeit, of course, with health issues). I have thought of you often, and have been praying for you from time to time.

I don't see any point in debating you, as I believe you are even more confused than before.

I still believe Frank is a fraud, and has caused you great harm.

I wish for you the true peace that only comes from Christ. All that you need is in Christ Jesus. Joseph Smith adds nothing to that.

Col 2:6 Therefore, as you have received Christ Jesus the Lord, walk in Him, 7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, overflowing with gratitude. 8 Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elemental forces of the world, and not based on Christ.

Hello CP!

I would offer that Christianity as we know it today was part of what was manufactured to look enough like what people had previously held as their belief systems (which we now consider to be myth) in order for people to accept the new form of belief called Christianity. IOW, what is believed by the Christian world is actually what we should be careful of today.... "Be careful that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deceit based on human tradition, based on the elemental forces of the world, and not based on Christ." What Christ actually said/taught/lived Himself does not look like what is lived by Christianity today. Christianity DOES, however, look very much like the mythical beliefs of what was traditionally believed before our Christ walked the earth. Man is extremely clever; and will use his cleverness for his own purposes---even when he took what our Christ taught---and created what we now call the tradition of Christianity. Even the idea of calling oneself a Christian causes separation and inequality from others...because the Christian believes he is saved while others are not; it is iniquity!

For example, I look around our world today---including at the USA---and I do not see that we do what Christ would do if He were here today. Even so, many in America have taken upon themselves the name of Christ. I think that they do so in vain...as they do not actually act as Christ would act. In fact, instead of:

Matthew 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

we rather pray that God bless our own country, our own troops....asking God to take sides even though He maketh His sun to rise on the evil and on the good, etc... We don't pray to God and ask Him to bless our enemies. We actually stand in groups on the streets or in our churches for the purpose of praying to God for own behalf and causes....just like those whom Jesus pointed to:



Now, I realize that there are many who take offense at the things that I say...or may even hate me for what I say....they hated Jesus as well---and went so far as to crucify Him. He was politically extremely unpopular. He was teaching peace and no resistance; when the Jews wanted someone to free them from their political oppressors. They expected their Messiah to crush their enemies; but Jesus wouldn't even interfere with the free will of those who desired to harm and kill Him. I try to pretty much stick to the words we believe that Jesus spoke--as opposed to using the words of those who we believe were His apostles and disciples. BTW, have you realized that we don't actually have any record of Jesus writing down the things He taught? It is ALL based upon hearsay...being left up to us to choose to accept it or not.

Here is an interesting video which compares what is now considered to be mythical belief systems vs Christianity. When I remove what is actually believed to be the words of our Christ from the picture of Christianity, I am amazed at how cleverly "Christianity" was made to look like those more ancient belief systems. It made it so much easier for the political and religious powers of post Christ's life to create yet another belief system which allowed them to have control over the hearts and minds of the people. That system is now another tradition taught and believed; but has little resemblance to looking like the words which was the actual work of our Christ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88GTUXvp-50John 12: 47 And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.

Ultimately, it is all good....the purpose for participating inside of mortality accomplishes a marvelous work and a wonder in our eternal existence. Fear toward the Lord is taught by the precept of men:

[Jedidiah]

Jo, what part of "I don't see any point in debating you, as I believe you are even more confused than before" do you not understand? CP is not the only one praying for you.

[Cow Poke]

Hello CP!

Hi Jo

not going there

Praying for you, instead.

[Franktalk]

Yes, do pray if it makes you feel better.

[Cow Poke]

Yes, do pray if it makes you feel better.

You need the prayer, Frank, and I need the practice!

[jo1952]

Jo, what part of "I don't see any point in debating you, as I believe you are even more confused than before" do you not understand? CP is not the only one praying for you.

If it brings you comfort, then pray away.

Do you believe Christ when He taught:



Why do you feel burdened for my sake? If you truly believed Christ, you would not be concerned about the well being of my soul.

I no longer feel burdened about the souls of others the way I used to when I was a part of organized religion. When I finally gave up the world and its traditions of belief, I received His message. My soul truly HAS found rest!!! We are all doing just fine. I believe Christ and what He taught.

[pancreasman]

Compassion for others does not cease with enlightenment. In fact, evidence would indicate that compassion becomes greater the more enlightened a being is. Practicing 'metta', lovingkindness meditation, is a holy and sacred thing. It should not be dismissed lightly.