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Carrikature
02-07-2014, 08:13 PM
Mercenaries. That's what you are. Oh, sure, you can call yourself an adventuring guild if you want. Whatever makes you feel better...

You've been around the world. More than once. Killed pretty much everything. And then some. And now...you're bored. Everywhere you go, it's 'been there, done that'. Bleh.

So now...now you had the bright idea to form a company. You, and whoever else you've convinced to join you. Now you get to send out snot-nosed recruits who can barely tell which end of the sword is pointy out to do odd jobs you can't be bothered with. Nice, isn't it? Sure it is...

It's harder than you think. You have to figure out who to recruit, and who not. Which jobs who gets to do, which jobs no one does. Which ones you think would be cool to do yourself. As if that wasn't enough, you get to spread the word, and convince someone else that your time is worth their money. It's easier said than done. Trust me.


-----------------




Ok, so with that fun intro, here's my idea. You'll get a planet map, fully populated with cities and whatever. I'll give you some general ideas of what exists where. You will create two characters each, one med-high level and one lower level. The lot of you will get to decide where you start out, and some other general things. I will present you with quests with varying rewards and descriptions. You get to pick and choose which ones you do, and which characters do them. As you succeed, you get money. Money goes to the coffers. You get to pick and choose what you spend the money on. A portion of it goes to the 'owners' (you the players) for your personal characters. You can hire new recruits, and I'll present available characters.

This will be a bit of a trick, and there are some basic concepts that are important to note:
1) You can send recruits on a quest and have me (through random dice) decide how they fare.
2) The group can choose to take over a particular party sent on a quest. That is, you actually play out the quest yourself using whoever you've chosen to send on it.
3) Experience is allocated only to those characters on a quest, and it will be based on encounter difficulty. That means you could send a group of level 15 characters to trounce a level 2 encounter, but they'll only get a little gold and no experience. That's probably a good strategy to gain money early on, but I suspect that will get boring pretty quickly.
4) Handling new recruits may need some tweaking. I'm expecting to hand you a randomly rolled character sheet to peruse that includes a specialization, of sorts. Either the players or I can handle feat and skill allocation in accordance with that specialization. I don't want to limit your control, but I don't want to bog down on minutiae either. As the company grows, I expect I'll end up with a public dropbox folder to store all the character sheets and other data.

Ok, I guarantee this will be rocky at first as we find a pace to make this manageable. I promise to stick it through as long as there is more than one player interested or until everyone generally agrees it's a failure (hopefully it won't come to that).

Other facts:
-3.5e
-SRD is the basis. If it's from other books and you think it's important, we can talk about it. I suspect we can create custom prestige classes fairly well if needed.
-I have my own pantheon, with its attendant mythos. I also have my own religious orders and cults. Cleric domains that are available will depend on the affiliated religious orders. Some of them aren't open to clerics.
-This world DOES have other planes (I'm calling them realms). There's a central city where travelers first arrive that is neutral. From there, you can travel to other realms. Not all of the gods have their own realms. Some share. Some realms are only open to the proper alignment.
-I expect that each set of adventures will consist of the players allocating who does what and then choosing which quest to join. You can choose among yourselves as to who plays the characters on that quest. If all else fails, random dice rolls can be used to make it random and interesting.
-I'll add in homebrew rules if/when I think of them. The biggest will be clerical domains. If there's anything specific you'd like to request, feel free.
-You should expect to fail some quests. There's no way you can know what your characters will actually face, and it's entirely possible that they will be outmatched.
-The company has prestige. Completing quests grants prestige and expands your influence. Failing or refusing quests does the opposite. Sometimes, refusing a quest could expand influence with certain people while hurting it with others. Yay complexity!

Right now I'm just curious if anyone is interested in playing a complex morass of various questlines where death is virtually guaranteed.

Chrs
02-07-2014, 08:24 PM
I'm up for it.

Chrs
02-07-2014, 08:43 PM
Do I get to do wonderful magic item/trap goodness if I go wizard? :P

Carrikature
02-07-2014, 09:02 PM
Do I get to do wonderful magic item/trap goodness if I go wizard? :P

Within reason? You'll be given a total starting gold for your specific characters and another to be used in the creation of headquarters and purchasing supplies. Whatever craziness you have planned would have to fit within that pool, and be ok'd by your compatriots. We might have to discuss particulars...

Chrs
02-07-2014, 09:06 PM
Okay :D

What level starting at?

Carrikature
02-07-2014, 09:46 PM
Level 5 and probably 20. I want to give you the occasion and need to explore the other realms, and that takes being big enough to survive them. It also takes someone with Astral Projection, though I will probably homebrew that all casters of sufficient level have access to that particular spell. That, or there is a special gate...

Chaotic Void
02-08-2014, 07:32 PM
I'd be up for it. I'd probably have fun with some weird build for my Level 20, then make a unique character for my Level 5 recruit.

I actually once toyed with an idea similar to this where the PCs formed their own budding mercenary guild (albeit they were much lower level).

Spartacus
02-08-2014, 07:48 PM
This does sound interesting.

Pinoy
02-09-2014, 04:53 AM
This does sound interesting.

Can a newbie like me join.

Ben Zwycky
02-09-2014, 08:45 AM
You have an entire fully populated planet mapped out?:stunned: How long did it take you to do that? It's a very interesting concept.

Carrikature
02-09-2014, 10:28 AM
You have an entire fully populated planet mapped out?:stunned: How long did it take you to do that? It's a very interesting concept.

Mapping the world itself only takes a few minutes: http://donjon.bin.sh/fantasy/world/. I've used this before for other things, and I typically generate a few worlds before settling on one that suits me. It's not technically fully populated yet, though, since I was saving some of the effort for after I found out if anyone would want to do it.

Creation of the pantheon took longer, but I'm actually copying directly from another world loosely based on D&D in which I created gods to fit each clerical domain. Given a domain as a primary attribute, it's more a matter of describing how they got to be what they are. Not so hard as all that.

In the interest of full disclosure, I expect to make use of a fair number of random generators the results of which I'll tweak myself. I can get away with that here since most of what you'll be doing isn't related to a single overarching plot. I will have story arcs buried within the world for you to discover and explore at your own behest, and in those cases there will be less randomness and more specific planning.

Carrikature
02-09-2014, 10:29 AM
Can a newbie like me join.

All are welcome. There's enough experienced players here to help you out as needed.

Chrs
02-09-2014, 11:06 AM
Chuck me a PM if you need help.

Ben Zwycky
02-09-2014, 11:35 AM
What rolling up method? 4d6? 5d6? Point buy?

Chrs
02-09-2014, 11:46 AM
Edit: nevermind, wrong thread.

Hoping for points buy :P

Spartacus
02-09-2014, 12:14 PM
I'm planning on playing a Horizon Walker: will there be any differences in the planar masteries?

Pinoy
02-09-2014, 03:00 PM
All are welcome. There's enough experienced players here to help you out as needed.

I will try to create my character. Do i have to create 2 character? What level is the bored mercenary? The second character, i'll great beginner.

Carrikature
02-09-2014, 11:35 PM
Character creation is 28 point buy. You'll be creating a level 20 and a level 7 character. The level 20 character gets the Leadership feat for free with the level 7 character being treated as its cohort. Obviously, the two need to know each other. You won't have any followers.

Starting gold for the level 7 is 13,000gp. Starting gold for the level 20 is 580,000gp. No single item for the Level 20 should be worth more than 100,000gp, and the permanent stat boosting items (manuals and tomes) are off limits. If you want custom magic items, we can discuss what and why, but if it's reasonable I'll probably allow it.

Your level 20 characters are the ones forming the guild. They don't have to be an intact adventuring party, but they need to know each other and have sufficient reason to work together. The details will be left up to you.

The SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/index.htm) is standard guidelines. If it's important, I'll consider modifications, but I'm trying to stick as close to the baseline as possible. All wizards get access to Astral Projection even if Necromancy is a closed school to them.

If there are specific homebrew rules you'd like considered, feel free to say so. No promises on what I'll actually change.

Other than that, general information thread can be found here: Mercenaries Reference (http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?703-Mercenaries-Reference). Please try to ask questions here, since that thread is intended primarily for reference.

Carrikature
02-09-2014, 11:49 PM
I'm planning on playing a Horizon Walker: will there be any differences in the planar masteries?

No.



I will try to create my character. Do i have to create 2 character? What level is the bored mercenary? The second character, i'll great beginner.

Yes, make two characters. If you need help you can ask here or PM Chrs or myself. There's a free character generator you can use to help figure out what the options are: http://www.pathguy.com/cg35lite.htm.

Chrs
02-10-2014, 12:15 AM
I was going to go wizard for the big guy, druid for the smaller guy. Any objections?

Pinoy
02-10-2014, 07:33 AM
I was going to go wizard for the big guy, druid for the smaller guy. Any objections?

I read a bit of the manual. I gain some understanding. Would you allow for the leader to have atleast one lvl 2 other class? Still trying to come up with a background story.

Chrs
02-10-2014, 08:23 AM
Yes, you can multiclass. Do you have a copy of the players handbook available?

Spartacus
02-10-2014, 10:00 AM
Planning on an archery-focused ranger/horizon walker for the high-level and a bard for the low-level. It seems like aligning them both with Laus makes the most sense.

Carrikature
02-10-2014, 02:37 PM
I was going to go wizard for the big guy, druid for the smaller guy. Any objections?

Not sure that you're asking me, but I have no objections. ;p



Planning on an archery-focused ranger/horizon walker for the high-level and a bard for the low-level. It seems like aligning them both with Laus makes the most sense.

Laus would be a good fit. Zatra might be an interesting choice for the bard, too. :shrug:

Spartacus
02-10-2014, 04:01 PM
Not sure that you're asking me, but I have no objections. ;p

Oh, sure, give two of the most powerful classes in the game to the player who specializes in MUs. It won't force you to make the encounters tougher for the rest of us, nope.


Laus would be a good fit. Zatra might be an interesting choice for the bard, too. :shrug:

Zatra would be interesting. It's still an open question, I suppose.

Carrikature
02-10-2014, 05:41 PM
Oh, sure, give two of the most powerful classes in the game to the player who specializes in MUs. It won't force you to make the encounters tougher for the rest of us, nope.

The rest of you are free to object. This is a team effort. :)

Spartacus
02-10-2014, 06:46 PM
The rest of you are free to object. This is a team effort. :)

Rather have him running the overpowered MUs than try to do it myself :whistle:

Pinoy
02-11-2014, 03:47 AM
Rather have him running the overpowered MUs than try to do it myself :whistle:

How can i object if i know little (near the border of nothing:ale::ale::tongue:)

Pinoy
02-11-2014, 03:49 AM
I am reading the Hypertext d20 SRD site. Will that be enough

Chrs
02-11-2014, 04:03 AM
Overpowered MUs? Doesn't seem like me at all :wink:

@Pinoy - Check your PMs

Ben Zwycky
02-11-2014, 12:54 PM
What is everyone else going for? I had a plan for a melee combat character that wasn't allowed (because it was based on a centaur), so I'm back to square one, and don't want to duplicate anyone else.

Spartacus
02-11-2014, 01:19 PM
What is everyone else going for? I had a plan for a melee combat character that wasn't allowed (because it was based on a centaur), so I'm back to square one, and don't want to duplicate anyone else.

Chrs has a wizard (HL) and druid (LL), I have an archery-focused ranger and a bard who may or may not end up melee-focused.

Pinoy
02-12-2014, 06:26 AM
Chrs has a wizard (HL) and druid (LL), I have an archery-focused ranger and a bard who may or may not end up melee-focused.

Will a barbarian fighter and a druid ok.

Pinoy
02-12-2014, 06:38 AM
Will a barbarian fighter and a druid ok.

Barbarian the big guy and ranger the lower guy. This seem a better fit.

Pinoy
02-13-2014, 05:43 PM
Barbarian the big guy and ranger the lower guy. This seem a better fit.

Is this ok?
Male Human Barbarian 1 / Ranger 6
Chaotic Good

Strength 9 (-1)
Dexterity 17 (+3)
Constitution 12 (+1)
Intelligence 10 (+0)
Wisdom 15 (+2)
Charisma 8 (-1)
Size: Medium
Height: 5' 4"
Weight: 150 lb
Eyes:
Hair:
Skin:
Total Hit Points: 42

Speed: 40 feet [barbarian]

Armor Class: 13 = 10 + 3 [dexterity]

Touch AC: 13
Flat-footed: 10
Initiative modifier: + 3 = + 3 [dexterity]
Fortitude save: + 8 = 7 [base] + 1 [constitution]
Reflex save: + 8 = 5 [base] + 3 [dexterity]
Will save: + 4 = 2 [base] + 2 [wisdom]
Attack (handheld): + 6/ + 1 = 7 [base] -1 [strength]
Attack (missile): + 10/ + 5 = 7 [base] + 3 [dexterity]
Grapple check: + 6/ + 1 = 7 [base] -1 [strength]

Light load:
Medium load:
Heavy load:
Lift over head:
Lift off ground:
Push or drag:
30 lb. or less
31-60 lb.
61-90 lb.
90 lb.
180 lb.
450 lb.

Languages: Common

Feats:

Endurance [free to rangers]
Point Blank Shot
Rapid Shot [ranger archery track]
Many Shot [ranger archery track]
Skill Focus (Concentration)
Skill Focus (Hide)
Stealthy
Track [free to rangers]
Skill Name
Key
Ability
Skill
Modifier
Ability
Modifier
Ranks
Misc.
Modifier
Appraise Int 0 =
+0
Balance Dex* 3 =
+3
Bluff Cha -1 =
-1
Climb Str* 8 =
-1
+ 9
Concentration Con 7 =
+1
+ 3 + 3 [skill focus]
Craft_1 Int 0 =
+0
Craft_2 Int 0 =
+0
Craft_3 Int 0 =
+0
Diplomacy Cha -1 =
-1
Disguise Cha -1 =
-1
Escape Artist Dex* 3 =
+3
Forgery Int 0 =
+0
Gather Information Cha -1 =
-1
Handle Animal Cha 1 =
-1
+ 2
Heal Wis 2 =
+2
Hide Dex* 8 =
+3
+ 3 [skill focus] + 2 [stealthy]
Intimidate Cha -1 =
-1
Jump Str* 8 =
-1
+ 5 + 4 [speed 40]
Knowledge (nature) Int 7 =
+0
+ 7
Listen Wis 12 =
+2
+ 10
Move Silently Dex* 9 =
+3
+ 4 + 2 [stealthy]
Perform_1 Cha -1 =
-1
Perform_2 Cha -1 =
-1
Perform_3 Cha -1 =
-1
Perform_4 Cha -1 =
-1
Perform_5 Cha -1 =
-1
Ride Dex 3 =
+3
Search Int 0 =
+0
Sense Motive Wis 2 =
+2
Spot Wis 12 =
+2
+ 10
Survival Wis 2 =
+2
Swim Str** 7 =
-1
+ 8
Use Rope Dex 7 =
+3
+ 4
* = check penalty for wearing armor

Know Nature >=5 ranks gives + 2 on survival checks above ground.

First-level Ranger spells: 2 (1 + 1) per day



Human

Extra feat at first level (already included)
Four extra skill points at first level (already included)
One extra skill point at each additional level (already included)
Barbarian
Fast Movement (already included)

Illiteracy (2 skill points to learn to read)

Rage

Uncanny Dodge (level 2)

Trap Sense (level 3)

Improved Uncanny Dodge (level 5)

Damage Reduction (level 7)

Greater Rage (level 11)

Indominitable Will (level 14)

Tireless Rage (level 17)

Mighty Rage (level 20)

Ranger
Favored enemies

Track as bonus feat (already included)

Combat Style

Endurance

Wild empathy (roll level + charisma bonus)

Endurance (level 3)

Animal Companion (level 4)

Woodland Stride (level 7)

Swift Tracker (level 8)

Evasion (level 9)

Camouflage (level 13)

Hide in Plain Sight (level 17)

High wisdom gains bonus spells daily

Favored Enemies:

Giants + 2

This ranger chose the archery track.
Class HP rolled
Level 1: Barbarian 12
Level 2: Ranger 6
Level 3: Ranger 3
Level 4: Ranger 5 + 1 to dexterity
Level 5: Ranger 4
Level 6: Ranger 1
Level 7: Ranger 4

Chaotic Void
02-13-2014, 07:33 PM
I've got a Grey Guard planned (Carrik gave me permission to use Pathfinder's Rules RE: Paladin Spellcasting*) for my Level 20 character, and a Cleric for my Level 7 Character.


*It's Charisma-Based rather than Wisdom-Based. Keeps me from getting MAD

Pinoy
02-13-2014, 10:39 PM
where can i send the background of my characters?

Spartacus
02-14-2014, 05:32 AM
where can i send the background of my characters?

PM to the GM.
(private message to the Game Master)

Spartacus
02-14-2014, 05:44 AM
What is everyone else going for? I had a plan for a melee combat character that wasn't allowed (because it was based on a centaur), so I'm back to square one, and don't want to duplicate anyone else.

With Carrik's approval, a centaur could be the result of a magical experiment, possibly related to attempts at ascendancy. That said, the base classes not currently represented are: fighter, monk, rogue, sorcerer.

Ben Zwycky
02-14-2014, 05:57 AM
For the high-level characters, we have Chrs' wizard to give us some 'library' knowledge. Is there anyone thinking of running a high-level rogue or bard for gathering info and being diplomatic? According to my PM conversation with Carrik, our level 20 characters are going to be more business managers than active adventurers, so I guess those aspects are going to be important. I tweaked my awesome melee-focussed high level character, so he's also suited for scouting or stealthy backup for a scouting mission (relatively high hide, move silently, spot and listen) so could accompany a rogue on a given mission and provide some muscle in case things go wrong. By choosing different skills, I could repurpose him to focus mainly on diplomacy and gather info instead of stealth, since he has gather info, knowledge (local) and diplomacy as class skills, though his int and Cha are only +1, so a bard/rogue/shadowdancer would be far better suited to that role (especially since they get a lot of skill points). Spart, is your bard your high-level or low-level character? Anyone planning on going for a high-level rogue or shadowdancer (or a cleric for that matter, since we don't seem to have one of those yet)?

Carrikature
02-14-2014, 06:09 AM
According to my PM conversation with Carrik, our level 20 characters are going to be more business managers than active adventurers, so I guess those aspects are going to be important.

Right. You will get to play the 20s, but the theme of the campaign is running an adventuring guild. Part of the concept is navigating interactions with the locals, but I also wanted to give players the opportunity to play a lot of different characters within the scope of a single, long campaign.

Spartacus
02-14-2014, 06:36 AM
For the high-level characters, we have Chrs' wizard to give us some 'library' knowledge. Is there anyone thinking of running a high-level rogue or bard for gathering info and being diplomatic? According to my PM conversation with Carrik, our level 20 characters are going to be more business managers than active adventurers, so I guess those aspects are going to be important. I tweaked my awesome melee-focussed high level character, so he's also suited for scouting or stealthy backup for a scouting mission (relatively high hide, move silently, spot and listen) so could accompany a rogue on a given mission and provide some muscle in case things go wrong. By choosing different skills, I could repurpose him to focus mainly on diplomacy and gather info instead of stealth, since he has gather info, knowledge (local) and diplomacy as class skills, though his int and Cha are only +1, so a bard/rogue/shadowdancer would be far better suited to that role (especially since they get a lot of skill points). Spart, is your bard your high-level or low-level character? Anyone planning on going for a high-level rogue or shadowdancer (or a cleric for that matter, since we don't seem to have one of those yet)?

CV's lower-level was going to be a cleric, and his higher-level was going to be a Grey Guard, which means charisma-based skills will work well.

My bard was going to be the low-level, with the ranger/horizon walker as more of a scout, though diplomacy is also on the Horizon Walker list of class skills.

I could also throw out my ranger concept and make my high-level character a sorcerer/dragon disciple: the latter has gather information, speak language, and gather information as class skills.

Ben Zwycky
02-14-2014, 06:59 AM
My high-level melee specialist is a human dragon disciple, sorc 1, ranger 9 (two-weapon fighting track), dragon disciple 10, hence the option of prioritising either stealth or gather info/diplomacy with his limited skill points (dragon disciple only gets 2 points plus int per level, as does sorceror).

If he's approved by Carrik (and he pretty much is, I just need to finalise where to put the skill points), I'll let you see how well that works as a combo.

Ben Zwycky
02-14-2014, 07:01 AM
I think a horizon walker is going to be ideal considering the nature of the world Carrik outlined

Spartacus
02-14-2014, 07:09 AM
I think a horizon walker is going to be ideal considering the nature of the world Carrik outlined

That's what I thought, too. The ability to use Dimension Door every 1d4 rounds as a sniper also has certain appeal.

Ben Zwycky
02-14-2014, 09:27 AM
Nice. You going for any sniping-specific feats with that?

Spartacus
02-14-2014, 09:35 AM
Nice. You going for any sniping-specific feats with that?

The ranger levels give me rapid shot, manyshot, and improved precise shot, which ignores all but total cover. I'm not sure what other feats to take, other than Far Shot and maybe precise shot; presumably there are more sniping-related feats, but they aren't in the SRD.

Ben Zwycky
02-15-2014, 01:12 PM
Ok, I'm going to go for slightly less stealth, no survival ranks and maximize his gather info (5 ranks knowledge local, circlet of persuasion, 23 ranks gather info and +1 cha, so an overall modifier of +29 gather info), and give him a halfling rogue as his level 7 cohort (since I wasn't allowed a wood elf, I probably wouldn't be allowed a gray elf either, which IMO make the best rogues). Hopefully we won't be going anywhere with lots of high-CR traps with our high-level characters.

Ben Zwycky
02-16-2014, 02:21 PM
Sent my two characters. One other option for our lack of high-level rogue (and lack of cleric) is for someone to either take a level in cleric and buy a wand of find traps (4500 gp) or homebrew a wondrous item of the find traps spell (command word, should cost 10800 gp, less if its a limited number of uses per day) and give it to a character with search as a class skill and a lot of skill points (maybe your horizon walker, spart?)

Pinoy
02-18-2014, 12:57 AM
I have a problem. When my barbarian became a fighter, all the skills are cross-class. Is this really the feature?

Carrik, can i just go directly to fighter even though the background story i sent you include a barbarian skill. I can go fighter first (unto level 14) and just adjust on barbarian skill depending on how you wanted me to go about it.

Ben Zwycky
02-18-2014, 01:13 AM
You're better off going with barbarian first (at first level you automatically get the maximum roll and 4 times the number of skill points, both of those are better with barbarian than fighter (d12 vs d10, 4+int vs 2+int), going with barbarian first will give you an extra 2 hit points and 8 skill points. The two classes have almost the same class skills, if you include some levels of ranger or rogue in there you'll have a lot more class skills to choose from, but would need to be more careful to balance the classes out. (i.e. keep two of them within one level of each other, with the third being your favoured class)

Pinoy
02-18-2014, 01:43 AM
You're better off going with barbarian first (at first level you automatically get the maximum roll and 4 times the number of skill points, both of those are better with barbarian than fighter (d12 vs d10, 4+int vs 2+int), going with barbarian first will give you an extra 2 hit points and 8 skill points. The two classes have almost the same class skills, if you include some levels of ranger or rogue in there you'll have a lot more class skills to choose from, but would need to be more careful to balance the classes out. (i.e. keep two of them within one level of each other, with the third being your favoured class)

my problem is most of the class skills became cross-class

Ben Zwycky
02-18-2014, 04:40 AM
This was sorted out in the shoutbox. If anyone needs help choosing magic items and stuff, let me know.

Pinoy
02-18-2014, 06:05 AM
This was sorted out in the shoutbox. If anyone needs help choosing magic items and stuff, let me know.

Thanks to Ben.

Carrikature
02-18-2014, 06:26 AM
Carrik, can i just go directly to fighter even though the background story i sent you include a barbarian skill. I can go fighter first (unto level 14) and just adjust on barbarian skill depending on how you wanted me to go about it.

It's up to you how you go about it. If you want/need to change your background story, that's perfectly fine. It will probably need tailored a bit anyway once I bother posting the map, which should be Soon (TM).

Ben Zwycky
02-18-2014, 08:54 AM
I might have made a mistake with my dragon disciple, the alignment has to match the dragon type, doesn't it? If so, I should change it to a Brass Dragon to be chaotic good, as that is a slightly better fit to his backstory than lawful good, and he'd have to wander into the desert to find him, rather than mountains.

Carrikature
02-18-2014, 09:42 AM
I might have made a mistake with my dragon disciple, the alignment has to match the dragon type, doesn't it? If so, I should change it to a Brass Dragon to be chaotic good, as that is a slightly better fit to his backstory than lawful good, and he'd have to wander into the desert to find him, rather than mountains.

See PM.

Pinoy
02-19-2014, 01:14 AM
It's up to you how you go about it. If you want/need to change your background story, that's perfectly fine. It will probably need tailored a bit anyway once I bother posting the map, which should be Soon (TM).

Ok will wait for the map.

Pinoy
02-19-2014, 06:35 AM
Can my high level buy something for the lower level. A gift.

Ben Zwycky
02-19-2014, 07:45 AM
Can my high level buy something for the lower level. A gift.

No, you have to stay within the starting gold limits for each character

Chaotic Void
02-19-2014, 07:52 AM
I've been building my Gray Guard so that he's basically a bodyguard and information extractor (via friendly or not-so-friendly means). He's required to act honorably at all times (ie, protect the innocent, take prisoners, etc), though he's permitted to do underhanded stuff as long as he has a darn good reason to do so (ie, Evil cultist plans to sacrifice doe-eyed orphans to a dark god within the week? Punk's gotta die, even if it means he's getting stabbed in his sleep). That being said, those violations of the Paladin's Code are exceptions and not the rule. And some things he's still not allowed to do, period (ie, he's not allowed to off some drunk guy, even if the sot accused his mother of being a member of the oldest of professions).

Ben Zwycky
02-19-2014, 08:49 AM
Yeah, I figured you'd have the diplomacy/interrogation side of things covered, as well as some capacity to deal with undead/ability damage/energy drain, Chrs' wizard should have more advanced bookish knowledge about most things covered, I have the gathering info about threats and city activity covered (which should help us to know what jobs need doing) as well as very basic bookish knowledge if Chrs's Wizard comes up empty. Spart's Horizon walker should have activity on the planes covered, a cleric would be nice for more advanced healing, but I think we can manage.

Ben Zwycky
02-19-2014, 09:47 AM
Chrs, would you consider going for a Wizard 7/Cleric 3/ Mystic Theurge 10? You'd still have access to level 9 arcane spells that way (Wiz lvl 17), as well as up to level 7 cleric spells. Or do you have something else in mind for your Wizardly wiz, e.g. an archmage?

Pinoy
02-19-2014, 06:14 PM
Chrs, would you consider going for a Wizard 7/Cleric 3/ Mystic Theurge 10? You'd still have access to level 9 arcane spells that way (Wiz lvl 17), as well as up to level 7 cleric spells. Or do you have something else in mind for your Wizardly wiz, e.g. an archmage?

can i make my level 7, a planar ranger

Carrikature
02-20-2014, 05:50 AM
can i make my level 7, a planar ranger

This was answered in the shoutbox.

Pinoy
02-23-2014, 05:17 AM
can someone check out what i got

Male Human Barbarian 1 / Ranger 6
Chaotic Good

Strength 12 (+1)
Dexterity 16 (+3)
Constitution 12 (+1)
Intelligence 12 (+1)
Wisdom 14 (+2)
Charisma 9 (-1)
Size: Medium
Height: 5' 5"
Weight: 170 lb
Eyes:
Hair:
Skin:
Total Hit Points: 45

Speed: 40 feet

Armor Class: 13 = 10 + 3 [dexterity]

Touch AC: 13
Flat-footed: 10
Initiative modifier: + 3 = + 3 [dexterity]
Fortitude save: + 8 = 7 [base] + 1 [constitution]
Reflex save: + 8 = 5 [base] + 3 [dexterity]
Will save: + 4 = 2 [base] + 2 [wisdom]
Attack (handheld): + 8/ + 3 = 7 [base] + 1 [strength]
Attack (missile): + 10/ + 5 = 7 [base] + 3 [dexterity]
Grapple check: + 8/ + 3 = 7 [base] + 1 [strength]

Light load:
Medium load:
Heavy load:
Lift over head:
Lift off ground:
Push or drag:
43 lb. or less
44-86 lb.
87-130 lb.
130 lb.
260 lb.
650 lb.

Languages: Common, orc

Feats:

Alertness
Endurance [free to rangers]
Point Blank Shot
Precise Shot
Rapid Shot [ranger archery track]
Many Shot [ranger archery track]
Skill Focus (Heal)
Track [free to rangers]
Skill Name
Key
Ability
Skill
Modifier
Ability
Modifier
Ranks
Misc.
Modifier
Appraise Int 1 =
+1
Balance Dex* 3 =
+3
Bluff Cha -1 =
-1
Climb Str* 6 =
+1
+ 5
Concentration Con 1 =
+1
Craft_1 Int 1 =
+1
Craft_2 Int 1 =
+1
Craft_3 Int 1 =
+1
Diplomacy Cha -1 =
-1
Disguise Cha -1 =
-1
Escape Artist Dex* 3 =
+3
Forgery Int 1 =
+1
Gather Information Cha -1 =
-1
Handle Animal Cha 1 =
-1
+ 2
Heal Wis 5 =
+2
[B]+ 3 [skill focus] i will change this
Hide Dex* 3 =
+3
Intimidate Cha -1 =
-1
Jump Str* 10 =
+1
+ 5 + 4 [speed 40]
Knowledge (dungeoneering) Int 6 =
+1
+ 5
Knowledge (geography) Int 6 =
+1
+ 5
Knowledge (nature) Int 8 =
+1
+ 5 + 2 [survival]
Listen Wis 14 =
+2
+ 10 + 2 [alertness]
Move Silently Dex* 6 =
+3
+ 3
Perform_1 Cha -1 =
-1
Perform_2 Cha -1 =
-1
Perform_3 Cha -1 =
-1
Perform_4 Cha -1 =
-1
Perform_5 Cha -1 =
-1
Ride Dex 3 =
+3
Search Int 10 =
+1
+ 9
Sense Motive Wis 2 =
+2
Spot Wis 14 =
+2
+ 10 + 2 [alertness]
Survival Wis 7 =
+2
+ 5
Swim Str** 4 =
+1
+ 3
Use Rope Dex 8 =
+3
+ 5
* = check penalty for wearing armor

Know Dungeoneering >=5 ranks gives + 2 on survival checks underground.
Know Geography >=5 ranks gives + 2 on checks to avoid getting lost or into hazards.
Know Nature >=5 ranks gives + 2 on survival checks above ground.
Search >=5 ranks gives + 2 on survival checks while tracking.
Use Rope >=5 ranks gives + 2 on climb checks involving ropes.
Use Rope >=5 ranks gives + 2 on escape artist checks involving ropes.

First-level Ranger spells: 2 (1 + 1) per day



Human

Extra feat at first level (already included)
Four extra skill points at first level (already included)
One extra skill point at each additional level (already included)
Barbarian
Fast Movement (already included)

Illiteracy (2 skill points to learn to read)

Rage

Uncanny Dodge (level 2)

Trap Sense (level 3)

Improved Uncanny Dodge (level 5)

Damage Reduction (level 7)

Greater Rage (level 11)

Indominitable Will (level 14)

Tireless Rage (level 17)

Mighty Rage (level 20)

Ranger
Favored enemies

Track as bonus feat (already included)

Combat Style

Endurance

Wild empathy (roll level + charisma bonus)

Endurance (level 3)

Animal Companion (level 4)

Woodland Stride (level 7)

Swift Tracker (level 8)

Evasion (level 9)

Camouflage (level 13)

Hide in Plain Sight (level 17)

High wisdom gains bonus spells daily

Favored Enemies:

Giants + 2

Humanoids (orc) + 4

This ranger chose the archery track.
Class HP rolled
Level 1: Barbarian 12
Level 2: Ranger 7
Level 3: Ranger 6
Level 4: Ranger 4 + 1 to strength
Level 5: Ranger 2
Level 6: Ranger 3
Level 7: Ranger 4

Equipment:

12.5 lb Chain shirt (mirthal) 1100gp AC + 4 Dex +6 Penalty 0 Arcane failure 10% 30 ft speed 20ft
8 lb Explorer outfit 10gp
1.5 lb Composite Longbow + 1 (darkwood) 430gp 1d8(dmg) x3 crit 110ft (ranged) piercing
3 lb Arrowss (20) 1gp
2 lb Short sword 10gp 1d6 (dmg) 19-20/x2 Piercing
5 lb Climberskit 80gp +2 climb
5 lb Bedroll 1sp
1 lb Gloves of Dexterity 4000gp +2dex
4 lb Gaunlets of Ogre Power 4000gp +2strength
2 lb Backpack 2gp
4 lb Waterskin 1gp
2 lb spell component pouch 5gp
- ring - feather falling 2200gp feather fallspell
1 lb dagger 2gp 1d4 (dmg) 19-20/x2 (crit) 1oft ranged piercing/slashing

Animal Companion : Dog, Riding

Pinoy
02-23-2014, 06:16 AM
Do we need loremaster?

Spartacus
02-23-2014, 06:55 AM
Do we need loremaster?

We already have a high-level wizard in Chrs, so no.

Ben Zwycky
02-23-2014, 07:32 AM
We could do with a high-level cleric if you're open to that.

Pinoy
02-24-2014, 08:06 AM
[QUOTE=Carrikature

Your level 20 characters are the ones forming the guild. They don't have to be an intact adventuring party, but they need to know each other and have sufficient reason to work together. The details will be left up to you.
[/QUOTE]

So how did our characters meet.

Ben Zwycky
02-24-2014, 09:31 AM
Well, my high-level character has a wide network of informants (explanation for his high 'gather info' skill) for identifying trouble spots that needed dealing with as he wandered from place to place, as well as for researching into a magic item he found. We could easily have met through that network, through his research efforts (maybe Chrs' wizard would be appropriate for that), or during one of the many missions he went on (make up a past mission in your character's local area). There are a lot of possibilities for our characters' backstory paths to cross, we don't all have to have met each other at the same time.

Pinoy
02-25-2014, 03:10 AM
hello

Ben Zwycky
02-25-2014, 05:56 AM
ok i will be a cleric (fighter cleric)

:thumb:

Right, in my character's backstory, after he completed his Dragon Disciple training (so when he's reached lvl 19 or 20), he goes back to his home village to face down a pit fiend and his undead horde that destroyed the village and forced him to flee into the desert years earlier. That would be a good point to join forces with at least a powerful cleric/paladin (and wizard, to prevent the pit fiend from escaping), if he hadn't already been working with them earlier. Destroying that pit fiend and his horde brought resolution to my character, but he now had no home and no long-term goal in life, together with him being a semi-outcast due to his half-dragon appearance, so could logically lead to them setting up the adventuring guild together.

I think that could work pretty well as a group backstory. What do you all think?

If you like the above, I can put together a basic timeline of the various stages in my character's backstory, including periods and types of activity where it would be logical for him to cross the paths of (and possibly join forces with) various types of characters. You guys can then pick one of those periods and create your own scenario for how we first crossed each others paths, worked together and eventually joined forces to destroy the pit fiend and his horde before setting up the guild. There'll be a lot of flexibility within that framework to fit your own origins in.

Sound good?

*edit - Pinoy - if you've changed your mind about being a cleric, that's fine, we can work around whatever you have in mind *

Pinoy
02-25-2014, 06:10 AM
Have to stay with the old one.:smile:

Beginner have to stay with simple character:wink:

Ben Zwycky
02-25-2014, 06:14 AM
I understand that

Ben Zwycky
02-25-2014, 12:57 PM
OK, this is my characters background story as submitted in his character sheet, subject to approval from Carrik, slightly updated and with some additional notes as to where it could best combine with other peoples backgrounds:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Eric Arboreus is from a family of rangers, but had always been fascinated by the arcane and elemental forces and creatures that originally inhabited the world, going as far as sneaking out to a desert hermit every so often to learn about dragons, even picking up some basic sorcery and knowledge of the Draconic language.

One day as he was on one of those visits, a rift opened between a negative energy plane and the material plane above their village, and a pit fiend accompanied by an undead horde charged out, overwhelming its inhabitants. The hermit sensed the danger and told Eric about a distant cave in the harshest part of the desert that was rumoured to contain an ancient treasure from the time of the dragons, a bane to all evil outsiders and undead.

Eric fled in that direction as the pit fiend and his horde began to move towards the hermits location, sustaining himself with a magical ring and daily use of the endure elements spell to survive the harsh conditions for months on end until he finally located the cave. After negotiating traps and battling scorpionfolk and other desert creatures, he made it through to the furthest chamber of the cave, which housed an ancient cabinet housing a cloak that appeared to be a cloak of resistance apart from a strange embroidered message on the collar. Using his rudimentary language skills, he recognised the Draconic motto The innocent sleep peacefully when the good are strong.

A message in Draconic on the inside wall of the cabinet read:

Once you can use the full power of the cloak, return here to become the bane of all that is evil.

Eric wandered to the far side of the desert, going from city to city, dealing with evil wherever he found it and building up a network of informants who would tell him about trouble as it arose, as well as seeking out any Draconic speakers who could help him decipher the cloak and its hidden power. Along the way he often worked with a halfling rogue who he took under his wing.


************************************************** ******

This would be a good period for crossing paths with other peoples characters for the first time, hes wandering from place to place, deserts, towns, villages, cities, mountains, solving problems wherever he finds them, so wherever youre based we have a chance to meet up, dealing with a local problem or seeking help with his research (e.g. Chrs wizard and his library knowledge). Our characters could either temporarily go our separate ways at this point, or journey together from this time on.

************************************************** ******

Eventually he came across an ancient tome of an order of Dragon Disciples, which identified the cloak as the legendary Half-Dragons Cloak of Might, and that the only way to unlock its true power was to complete dragon discipleship and become a half-dragon. He completed the path of the Dragon Disciple, achieved apotheosis, gained the new name of Eric Dragonhide and returned to the cave.

When he entered the chamber, one of the walls changed shape to reveal an alcove containing not one but two sun blades, an a highly magical mithral breastplate. He took these items and used them to destroy the pit fiend and his undead horde, with the help of some powerful friends.

************************************************** ******

We would all have met up by this point, either during the period noted above, or him searching out powerful allies to take on the pit fiend and his horde (e.g. dealing with a devil and horde of undead could be something to get the attention of CVs Gray guard, if our paths hadnt already crossed by this point)

************************************************** ******

When the battle with the pit fiend was over, he discovered his village had long since been burned to ashes and the land turned to desert. Vengeance was his, but he now had no home and no long-term goal.

He and his friends decided to establish their own adventuring guild, using his network of informants to discover what needs fixing across the land and beyond, to help them decide who to send on what mission.

Eric is still adjusting to the new attitude people have towards him, now that his appearance is so unconventional, so he prefers to keep a low profile whenever possible.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What do you say? I think this could work as a decent origin for our guild.

Pinoy
02-25-2014, 05:41 PM
This is what i sent Carrik before (my wife wrote this, i am no writer)

Name: Faris Age: 32 Gender: Male Race: Human
Class: Barbarian/Fighter Neutral Good

Childhood:
Faris is a son of a once powerful Lord.
He had to flee his family’s land because corrupt Lords, whom his father refused to help, burned it.
He wandered in the forest until he met a group of barbarians.
The barbarians took him in as a slave, but after proving himself to be helpful in teaching the young, Orhan, the leader of the barbarians took him in and treated him as one of his sons.
Faris and Baako, the eldest son of the barbarian’s leader, became best friends.

Adult:
While Baako was drinking and womanizing, Faris was training himself in hopes to overthrow the corrupt Lords who destroyed his family’s land.
With the help of Faris, Orhan’s band of barbarians were able to defeat other barbarians.
Faris was trying to win over Orhan, to use Orhan’s barbarians to avenge his family. But Orhan, who loved Faris as a son, would not let him become totally corrupted and evil. So, he asked Faris to leave the band and find his own fortune.
Baako had just become a father to Amal. He joined Faris in his quest, to escape his responsibilities as a father and husband.
They became selswords, ultimately becoming bodyguards to the supreme leader’s family. There, he and Baako learned of what really happened to his family, and agreed to help each other kill the corrupt lords.
However, upon hearing word that Orhan was badly hurt battle, Baako had to return home. He tried to convince Faris to go back with him saying that Orhan loved him too. But Faris, would not be moved. Faris believed that Orhan abandoned him when the asked him to leave the band.
They parted, no longer as friends.

Middle Age:
Faris realized that avenging his family would not solve the corruption in their kingdom.
He left his post as bodyguard to the supreme leader’s family with a few others who have witnessed corruption. Together, they wanted to establish a guild that will expose the corruption and all the players of the game of greed.
He traced the band of Baako’s barbarians, and made amends. He wanted to recruit Baako to be in his guild.
Baako refused having no one else to replace him as leader of the barbarians. Instead of joining Faris, he sent his son Amal.

Spartacus
02-25-2014, 08:41 PM
Theruviel, the high-level ranger/Horizon Walker, was probably part of the attack on the pit fiend (being able to teleport over 1000 feet every few seconds makes for a relatively elusive sniper, and the Wounding longbow I'm planning to use is pretty annoying, too). They would have met either through wanderings or through someone with connections, like CV or Chrs' characters. Being TN means that she was probably motivated either by self-interest or a strong personal loyalty.

The backstory is more or less what you'd expect of an elf stricken with wanderlust: she traveled around, learning the ways of the wilderness and sharpening her archery skills. Her experiences with various magical beings and strange locales infused her with a few strange abilities, including the ability to instantly transport herself considerable distances. There are some who suggest that these abilities are the result of a favorable encounter with Laus, a theory that Theruviel herself will neither confirm nor deny. It is nonetheless known that she occasionally makes contributions to the Wayfarers.

Where Theruviel is at home in the solitude of the wilds, Siriekahn, her niece and a talented bard, finds her natural habitat in large towns and cities in which she can be the center of attention for as long as she pleases. Theruviel found a place for her niece, who shares her wanderlust if not her particular interests, in the newly formed guild. Both see the guild as a way of advancing their own interests and those whom they consider to be family.

Pinoy
02-25-2014, 10:41 PM
this is the lower version - story

Name: Amal Age: 17 Gender: Male Race: Human
Class: Barbarian/Ranger Chaotic Good

Childhood:
Amal is the eldest son of Baako, who is the son of Orhan, the leader of the barbarians.
His father runaway when he was born. His mother, a bar maid raised him.
Fearful of Orhan, his mother kept him.
To help earn their keep in the tabard, his mother taught to find edible plants and herbs, the owner of the tabard taught him how to hunt with bow and arrow.
His grandfather chanced upon their tabard and saw Amal. A spitting image of Baako, Orhan knew at once that Amal is his grandson. He paid the owner of the tabard for Amal and his mother, and took them home.
Because Orhan missed Baako, his tendency was to favor Amal.
Amal did not show interest in his trainings, and preferred to be alone in the woods. Being a favorite of the barbarian’s leader, he was tolerated. However, most barbarians thought that he was not a real barbarian. They could not bear the thought that he will be their future leader.
One day, his grandfather took him hunting. They chanced upon a giant. His grandfather protected him, but the giant lifted Orhan. The giant gripped Orhan’s body crushing a few of his bones. In panic, Amal lifted his bow and arrow and shot at the giant’s fingers attempting to free his grandfather. But the arrow hit Orhan’s left eye. Orhan cried in pain. Terrified, Amal shot again an arrow. This time, it went to the giant’s eye. The giant released Orhan, and Amal rushed and took his grandfather to safety.
Orhan’s life was in danger. Knowing that the band wouldn’t want a 10-year-old boy as leader, he sent for his son.
He dies just in time after passing the leadership to Baako. The band of barbarians respected Baako, and were loyal to him.
When Amal first met Baako, he resented father who was absent for 10 years.

Youth:
Out of love and respect to his grandfather and mother, he obeyed his father and tried to please him.
He became better in his training, excelling in archery and stealth.
Baako started to see Amal as his younger self. For fear that Amal fall into the same vices, he discouraged Amal from going into the tabards.
He met again with the giant who gave his grandfather a fatal wound. He failed to kill the giant, but he managed to blind it completely. From then on, he would blind the giants he would meet.
Then Faris came into their band and offered his father a place in his guild. Baako could not go because he did not have anyone to replace him as leader. Amal was sent to Faris, to be his apprentice. Baako hoped that by sending Amal, he would be away from the vices that his father had as a youth.

Pinoy
02-25-2014, 10:43 PM
Now I can just connect with anyone.. I hope.

Ben Zwycky
02-26-2014, 03:46 AM
OK, Pinoy, I see a nice possibility for integrating Faris' backstory into Eric's and Theruviel's in a straightforward way, by using your Middle Age phase with a slight modification. How is this:

Faris becomes tired of the corruption and leaves his post as a bodyguard when he hears about a noble mission to avenge the destruction of a village by a pit fiend, that aim resonates with him because of what happened to his own homeland. He joins in the attack, then agrees with his new friends to form the guild.

Additional possibilities:

a. Faris could also have heard of Eric and his exploits as a wandering problem-fixer and built up a respect for him because of their similar goals and outlook on life.

b. they could have even crossed paths during Faris's time as a sellsword in his adult phase, going their separate ways because of Faris' commitment to his employer at the time.

What do you think?

Pinoy
02-26-2014, 06:29 AM
Sounds great. How about if we add a few more details:

Faris wanted to join Eric because he learned that aside from being corrupt, the lords are also secret members of the Order of the Shadow. He witnessed the corrupt lords perform a summoning ritual, that produced a dark figure covered in green flame- the very same strange flame that burned his village. He is convinced that the corrupt lords were summoning great evil in his village, years ago, and that is the reason behind the burning of his village. Faris suspects that the fire that burned Eric's village may have produced other dark creatures that currently roams their land.

I know I never mentioned anything about a strange green flame before, but I think it adds a nice touch and makes our stories more coherent. :) Let me know what you think. :)

Ben Zwycky
02-26-2014, 11:15 AM
What you're suggesting is fine, but bear in mind our high-level characters are supposed to be a little jaded, with no great aims left in their lives:


Mercenaries. That's what you are. Oh, sure, you can call yourself an adventuring guild if you want. Whatever makes you feel better...

You've been around the world. More than once. Killed pretty much everything. And then some. And now...you're bored. Everywhere you go, it's 'been there, done that'. Bleh.

So now...now you had the bright idea to form a company. You, and whoever else you've convinced to join you.

Having major loose ends in our high-level characters' backstories (like these corrupt lords still operating) would run counter to that. Also, I've tried to make my character's backstory self-contained, to minimise the chance of it clashing with whatever Carrik has planned. If you really want to tie those lords into the appearance of the pit fiend, then maybe have the end of the pit fiend bring about the end of the lords, so there's closure there, but in a way that leaves a foul taste in Faris' mouth, so he'll want to leave it all behind and start again by forming the guild.

Here's a possibility:

Pit fiends are lawful evil (i.e. tyrannical rulers), and people aren't going to summon something that powerful without thinking they're going to get something out of the deal.

So, the corrupt lords summoned the pit fiend together, hoping he would bolster their strength and help them take over the neighbouring territories, and he did that. However, in return they all swore undying loyalty to the pit fiend and he was now in charge of the three of them. Over their years of servitude, they grew to despise each other more and more, but none of them would dare act on their hatred, for fear of what the pit fiend would do.

With the pit fiend gone, they immediately began fighting among themselves, weakening each other's power bases so much that they were eventually all killed by their own people. The region descended into chaos, with each new heir to each throne lasting a week or two before being assassinated until the entire political structure of the region collapsed into nothing but warring tribes.

Disgusted with this turn of events and wanting nothing to do with the remaining petty power struggles, Faris decides to leave it all behind and form the guild with the others.


How's that for a bittersweet conclusion?

Pinoy
02-26-2014, 05:28 PM
ok.

Pinoy
02-27-2014, 07:16 AM
Hello

Ben Zwycky
03-01-2014, 04:10 AM
How's everyone doing with their characters? Anyone need any help?

Pinoy
03-01-2014, 11:40 PM
Here are my character sheets.. can anyone review it and give me some suggestions

https://www.dropbox.com/s/r59t3t5sklhx7ke/Farris_upload.xls

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wxyvd5ja2jpdp0v/Amal_upload.xls


edit link updated

Ben Zwycky
03-02-2014, 01:02 PM
OK, let's deal with Amal first, a number of problems:

1: having bracers of armor doesn't help you at all when you're wearing actual armor (other than work against incorporeal creatures), it's for characters that can't wear normal armor (wizards, sorcerors, monks, duellists), so drop that, saving you 1,000 gp

2: Since you saved 1000 gp from point 1 above, you can make your mithral shirt a mithral chain shirt +1 and increase your AC by 1.

3: Unfortunately, the cost of a ring of protection +2 is 8000 gp, not 4000 gp (it's AC bonus squared * 2,000), so you'll have to go for a ring of protection +1 instead, saving you 2,000 gp, but reducing your deflection bonus to AC by 1, so overall your AC stays the same due to the better chain shirt from point 2. In your sheet, you haven't included the deflection bonus from the ring in your AC.

4: Your bow cannot have the seeking ability without also having magical enhancement of +1 or more, meaning it would cost 8,530 gp instead of 2,530 gp. Give it just the +1 enhancement to be the same price, so it will still have the same chance of hitting, but will do damage of d8+2 instead of d8+1.

5: There's no need for all of those potions, you can cast those spells as a ranger, so you could buy scrolls or wands instead, either saving you a lot of money or givign you a much bigger capacity. You could get a scroll of endure elements for half the price of a potion, and get a wand of cure light wounds instead of the eight potions of cure light wounds and potion of cure moderate wounds, meaning you can cast cure light wounds 50 times instead of cure light wounds ten times and cure moderate once. You could keep one potion of cure light wounds for an emergency (e.g. when your character is unconscious or dying) and the overall cost will 75 gp less.

6: You should have 30 rather than 24 arrows in your efficient quiver (same price, you buy them in bundles of 10). Arrows are cheap and you have room for up to 60 in your efficient quiver, so you may as well fill it up, 20 arrows with cold iron tips will only cost 4 gp, and a set of 10 with silver silver tips only 20, so you can deal better with monsters that are vulnerable to those materials.

7: Since he's a ranger and will be the main tracker of our weaker characters, the survival skill is more important for him than the search skill, (we already have a low-level rogue who'll be much better at searching), suggest taking 4 ranks off his search skill so you still have the 5 you need to get the synergy bonus on tracking, and putting those on survival to boost it to 9.

8: You now have an extra 2051 gp to spend on something, so we could make your longsword magical instead of just masterwork, and we're back to only 51 gp difference.

So, overall my fixes/recommendations are:

1: No bracers of armour

2: mithral chain shirt +1 (armor bonus 5) instead of plain mithral chain shirt (armor bonus 4)

3: ring of protection +1 instead of plus 2, put a value of 1 in your deflection bonus to AC

your normal AC is now 20 instead of 18, touch AC is 14 instead of 13, flat-footed AC 17 instead of 15

4: darkwood composite bow (SR 1) +1 instead of seeking darkwood composite bow (SR 1)

5: one potion and one wand of cure light wounds (50 charges) instead of ten potions of cure light wounds

two scrolls of endure elements instead of one potion of endure elements

one scroll of cure moderate wounds instead of one potion of cure moderate wounds

6: 30 normal arrows in your quiver instead of 24, plus 20 cold iron-tipped arrows and 10 silver ones

7: change to 5 ranks in Search instead of 9, change to 9 ranks in survival instead of 5

8: longsword +1 instead of masterwork longsword,

an extra 51 gp in your money pouch

I will deal with Farris in another post, there are a lot more problems there.

Pinoy
03-02-2014, 03:22 PM
OK, let's deal with Amal first, a number of problems:

1: having bracers of armor doesn't help you at all when you're wearing actual armor (other than work against incorporeal creatures), it's for characters that can't wear normal armor (wizards, sorcerors, monks, duellists), so drop that, saving you 1,000 gp

2: Since you saved 1000 gp from point 1 above, you can make your mithral shirt a mithral chain shirt +1 and increase your AC by 1.

3: Unfortunately, the cost of a ring of protection +2 is 8000 gp, not 4000 gp (it's AC bonus squared * 2,000), so you'll have to go for a ring of protection +1 instead, saving you 2,000 gp, but reducing your deflection bonus to AC by 1, so overall your AC stays the same due to the better chain shirt from point 2. In your sheet, you haven't included the deflection bonus from the ring in your AC.

4: Your bow cannot have the seeking ability without also having magical enhancement of +1 or more, meaning it would cost 8,530 gp instead of 2,530 gp. Give it just the +1 enhancement to be the same price, so it will still have the same chance of hitting, but will do damage of d8+2 instead of d8+1.

5: There's no need for all of those potions, you can cast those spells as a ranger, so you could buy scrolls or wands instead, either saving you a lot of money or givign you a much bigger capacity. You could get a scroll of endure elements for half the price of a potion, and get a wand of cure light wounds instead of the eight potions of cure light wounds and potion of cure moderate wounds, meaning you can cast cure light wounds 50 times instead of cure light wounds ten times and cure moderate once. You could keep one potion of cure light wounds for an emergency (e.g. when your character is unconscious or dying) and the overall cost will 75 gp less.

6: You should have 30 rather than 24 arrows in your efficient quiver (same price, you buy them in bundles of 10). Arrows are cheap and you have room for up to 60 in your efficient quiver, so you may as well fill it up, 20 arrows with cold iron tips will only cost 4 gp, and a set of 10 with silver silver tips only 20, so you can deal better with monsters that are vulnerable to those materials.

7: Since he's a ranger and will be the main tracker of our weaker characters, the survival skill is more important for him than the search skill, (we already have a low-level rogue who'll be much better at searching), suggest taking 4 ranks off his search skill so you still have the 5 you need to get the synergy bonus on tracking, and putting those on survival to boost it to 9.

8: You now have an extra 2051 gp to spend on something, so we could make your longsword magical instead of just masterwork, and we're back to only 51 gp difference.

So, overall my fixes/recommendations are:

1: No bracers of armour

2: mithral chain shirt +1 (armor bonus 5) instead of plain mithral chain shirt (armor bonus 4)

3: ring of protection +1 instead of plus 2, put a value of 1 in your deflection bonus to AC

your normal AC is now 20 instead of 18, touch AC is 14 instead of 13, flat-footed AC 17 instead of 15

4: darkwood composite bow (SR 1) +1 instead of seeking darkwood composite bow (SR 1)

5: one potion and one wand of cure light wounds (50 charges) instead of ten potions of cure light wounds

two scrolls of endure elements instead of one potion of endure elements

one scroll of cure moderate wounds instead of one potion of cure moderate wounds

6: 30 normal arrows in your quiver instead of 24, plus 20 cold iron-tipped arrows and 10 silver ones

7: change to 5 ranks in Search instead of 9, change to 9 ranks in survival instead of 5

8: longsword +1 instead of masterwork longsword,

an extra 51 gp in your money pouch

I will deal with Farris in another post, there are a lot more problems there.

Thanks. Creating of character really need a lot of thinking. (i need to become geek in D&D after this:teeth:)

Pinoy
03-02-2014, 06:46 PM
I will apply every changes.

the ring was 2 rings that is why i put 2AC (one for each ring). anyway, i put "keen" on my longsword.

Ben Zwycky
03-03-2014, 02:17 PM
having two rings of protection doesn't help you, the bonuses are the same type and deflection bonuses don't stack with each other. You did the same thing with Farris. I've finished my description of the process I went through to improve Farris, but haven't done the summary of all the changes yet. It's late, I need to sleep, I'll post it tomorrow. I think you'll like what I've done with him :grin:

Chaotic Void
03-03-2014, 03:01 PM
As it stands, I've only got my Gray Guard built stat-wise. I've got four major magic items picked for him:
-Cloak of Charisma +6 (This is obvious. An additional +3 to my spells- Since Carrik permitted CHA based Spellcasting- all my Saves, and to my Justice Blade ability [replaces Smite Evil])
-Belt of Giant's Strength +6 (Bonus attack and Damage.)
-Mask of Lies (Okay'd with Carrik. Basically allows me to use 'Disguise Self' at-will, and I'm always affected by Undetectable Alignment. Also gives me +5 to Bluff Checks)
-+5 Animated Shield (Retains armor bonus while still able to swing a Greatsword. :grin:)

I'm open to suggestions Regarding my other magic items, so if you've got ideas... fire away, folks.

Spartacus
03-03-2014, 03:12 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#holyAvenger

Theoretically, putting the same enchantments on a Greatsword would only cost 35 more gold than the listed price.

Pinoy
03-03-2014, 03:51 PM
having two rings of protection doesn't help you, the bonuses are the same type and deflection bonuses don't stack with each other. You did the same thing with Farris. I've finished my description of the process I went through to improve Farris, but haven't done the summary of all the changes yet. It's late, I need to sleep, I'll post it tomorrow. I think you'll like what I've done with him :grin:

I guess i really need to read more.

Thanks for taking time to go through it.

Carrikature
03-03-2014, 05:30 PM
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#holyAvenger

Theoretically, putting the same enchantments on a Greatsword would only cost 35 more gold than the listed price.

Too bad it's over the allowed cost per item.

Ben Zwycky
03-04-2014, 12:21 PM
Farris now, and there are a lot of problems here, understandable since a level 20 character is more complex to design than a level 7, especially for a beginner. Here is the process I went through to improve your character:

1: Your ability scores are distributed very inefficiently 5 out of your 6 ability scores are odd numbers. In almost every case, odd numbers give you exactly the same benefit as the even number below, the exceptions being the ability score that affects your spellcasting (this character casts no spells, so that is irrelevant) and your strength score in terms of how it affects your carrying capacity (also pretty much irrelevant). Since we started with a point buy and youve been able to boost your ability scores 5 times, you have complete control of all of your ability scores. For starters, I suggest making your DEX and CON one higher, and your INT and CHA each one lower (a barbarian/fighter really doesnt need those to be high at all). Leave the extra single point on whichever ability score you plan on increasing next time (if we ever reach level 24)

2: Again youve bought bracers of armor which give you hardly any benefit, unless you really want to be sure against incorporeal creatures. Drop those, saving yourself 64,000 gp

3: same problem with the armor, it has to have an enhancement bonus of at least +1 before it can have a specific benefit. If youre set on having the extra defence against incorporeal creatures, then youd have to make it ghost touch armor, which is a +3 bonus, together with the minimum enhancement bonus of +1 and the +5 bonus for heavy fortification, that would take its cost to 91,650 gp, which is 56,000 gp more, so were still 8,000 gp ahead.

4: Standard magic items have limits, beyond which they become epic magic items and the prices massively increase. The maximum enhancement bonus to an ability score with a standard magic item is +6, the maximum resistance bonus for saving throws is +5 (though you can increase a saving throw in multiple ways that stack with each other with different items, but thats more complex to do) the maximum deflection bonus with a standard magic item is +5. Two of your items go over these limits, the amulet of health +8, and the cloak of resistance +7, reducing those to +6 and +5 respectively reduces their costs to 36,000 and 25, 000 gp respectively , saving you 52,000 gp. And were 60,000 gp ahead.

5: having two rings of protection is redundant, their bonuses dont stack with each other. Drop one of them, freeing up a slot for another ring and saving you 50,000 gp. Were now 110,000 ahead.

6: A scabbard of keen edges gives exactly the same benefit as your improved critical feat for bastard swords, those two benefits dont stack, so unless you really need it for your dagger, then drop this, saving you another 16,000 gp, meaning were 126,000 gp ahead.

7: having a belt of strength and gauntlets of ogre power is redundant, since they both give the same kind of benefit and don't stack. A belt of dwarvenkind normally gives a constitution bonus, so we could just increase that to +6 and drop the amulet of health altogether and give you a shirt of strength +6 and gloves of dex+6 instead of your gauntlets, so we've spent an extra 32,000 for the gloves of dex instead of gauntlets of ogre power, an extra 16,000 gp for making the belt +6 con instead of +2 con, +4 str, and we've replaced the amulet of health with a shirt of strength, which costs the same, which means an extra 48,000 gp, so we're still 78,000 gp ahead.

8: Youve listed the price for your mithral spined shield as 14,580 gp, but a mithral spined shield would cost 6,580 gp. Increasing its shield enhancement bonus to +3 instead of +1 (shield bonus of +5 instead of +3) will do this. While were at it, lets just boost it to +5, costing 16,000 gp more (shield bonus of +7 instead of +3)
As it is, it's shield spikes for using in shield bashing are not magical. if you want to make them magical it'll cost an extra 2300 gp for a +1 bonus. However, you'd probably want to have the two-weapon fighting feat to reduce the attack penalty for doing this, since I saw you have the improved shield bash feat, maybe drop the skill focus on intimidation?
Since we have a lot of money left to play with, we could also make these shield spikes out of adamantium, to make them more useful, costing us an extra 2,700 gp, so 21,000 gp more in total.
This would mean we wouldnt need an adamantium dagger, so replace that with a conventional masterwork one, saving us the 2,700 we spent to make them adamantium

{**This part is just me being creative, and might not necessarily be doable**
Turning to the shield's unique ranged attack, after taking off the normal cost of a spiked shield +1, it seems that this ability is worth 4,400 gp. It behaves as a spell-like effect usable three times a day, so if we want it to be usable as many times a day as you like, we'd have to mutiply this cost by 5/3, increasing it to 7333.3 gp, which doesn't make much sense, so we'll round it up to 7400 gp to be on the safe side, or an extra 3000 gp}

9: You've put a price for your sun blade as 74, 335 gp and listed it as +4. A sun blade with an extra 1 enhancement bonus (+3, rising to +5 against evil creatures instead of +2 rising to +4) would be 72,335 gp, +4 rising to +6 would be 98,335. Let's go with +3/+5 for now and come back to this if we have 26,000 gp or more left at the end.

Now we are still 56,000 ahead, plus the 37,320 gp minus a silver piece you had left over originally, making 93,320 gp in total, we still have a free finger slot for a ring, eyes for some goggles or lenses, throat for an amulet or periapt and arms for bracers or bracelets. Let's get creative here.

10: First of all, let's look at rings. A ring of blinking would enable you to defend yourself much better against incorporeal enemies, as well as make you more powerful when dealing with physical and magical attacks, so that could be a very useful alternative to ghost touch armor. 27,000 gp for that

11: now lets return to the armor question. With your increased dexterity and the gloves of dex, your dex bonus is now +6, and your maximum dex bonus with your mithral full plate is +3, meaning 3 points of dex are going to waste in terms of AC, a shame since you have improved uncanny dodge from your barbarian levels. An alternative would be celestial armour, which gives less basic armor bonus (+5 instead of +8) but a max dex bonus of +8, better than any other armor, so you'd have a little bit of room to spare to improve your dex, as well as being able to fly for up to 5 minutes once per day, as well as counting as light armor, so your land movement speed will be 40 ft per round instead of the 30 ft per round it would have been with the mithral full plate. We can make it +4 enhancement and strong fortification, taking it's cost to 94,400 gp, only 2,750 gp more, so we have 90,570 gp left

12: for the throat slot, we can give you a periapt of wisdom +6 for 36,000 gp, so we have 64,470 gp left. This will improve your spot and listen checks and will saves. A barbarian/ fighter doesnt really need a high wisdom score, apart from the will save question, it could be a good idea to add the iron will feat to the periapt for 15,000 gp, so we have 57,550 left. You have a helm of spell resistance, which doesn't really match the normal type of bonuses (the body slot affinity) for items worn on your head, which are mental improvement and ranged attack. Having an item that goes against the body slot affinity costs an extra 50%, so we have a problem. However, the body slot affinity for the throat is protection and perception, so we could swap the two around, giving you an amulet of spell resistance and a helmet of wisdom and iron will (call it a helmet of resilient wisdom or something)

Ben Zwycky
03-04-2014, 12:22 PM
13: because of what we did in 12, we can revisit point 1 again, your ability scores. If we start off our 28-point buy with str 16, dex 15, Con 14, int 12, wis 8 and cha 8, and from our 5 ability score increases boost str twice and dex 3 times, we arrive at basic scores of str 18, dex 18, con 14, wis 8 cha 8. With all of our ability-boosting items, This gives us:

STR 24 (+7)
DEX 24 (+7)
CON 20 (+5)
INT 12 (+1)
WIS 14 (+2)
CHA 8 (-1)

Fortitude: +23
Reflex: +18
Will: +15

AC: 38
Touch AC: 22
Flat-footed: 31 (but most of the time it will be 38 because of Uncanny dodge)

And 224 hit points

Your intelligence bonus is the same as what you had it, so your skill points are unaffected, as a barbarian you hardly need cha (only for handle animal and intimidate), so that is one less than it was, and everything else is much healthier in terms of the needs of a barbarian/fighter, and weve made use of almost all of our very generous dexterity bonus allowance. Also, we have people in our party able to boost your natural armour with magic, so your AC can improve even further (up to another 5)


14: To make up for the intimidation you lost, and also make your combat reflexes and whirlwind attack more effective, we can add an enlarge person ability to your cloak of resistance. Lets make it caster level 3 and command word, so that whenever you want you speak the command word and are enlarged for 3 minutes, increasing your strength, damage, grappling and reach, but reducing your AC and ranged attack rolls by 2. Your intimidate bonus will also be 4 higher when enlarged, making up exactly for what weve sacrificed above. This will cost 8100 gp.

15: A repeating crossbow is an exotic weapon, so youd need to take a feat to be able to use it well, it also doesnt do much damage, so is not worth the effort. Replace it with a +1 seeking composite bow strength rating 5 for 8900 gp. You can use that twice a round when hasted, which you can t do with your shields ranged attack, though now we improved it, your shields ranged attack is very good for most circumstances. Get 20 normal arrows, ten cold-iron-tipped, 10 silver-tipped and 10 adamantium-tipped arrows for 624 gp. We now have 34,646 gp

16:we still have some money left, so you could hire a magician to cast see invisibility with permanency on Farris, for only 5630 gp, so hell be able to see any invisible or ethereal creatures that arent hiding. We could also get him some eyes of the eagle +5 for his face body slot and help with his poor eyesight, giving him a small chance of seeing things that are trying to hide, costing another 2,500 gp. This leaves us with 26,516 gp, just enough to choose the +4/+6 version of the sun blade, buy 6 potions of cure light wounds, 2 antitoxins and have 115.9 gp left over

************
* In summary:*
************


Ability scores (including ability-boosting items)

STR 24 (+7)
DEX 24 (+7)
CON 20 (+5)
INT 12 (+1)
WIS 14 (+2)
CHA 8 (-1)

Saves (including resistance bonus and iron will)

Fortitude: +23
Reflex: +18
Will: +15

AC: 38 (armor bonus +9, shield bonus +7, dex bonus +7 (of max dex bonus +8) and deflection bonus +5
Touch AC: 22
Flat-footed: 31 (but most of the time it will be 38 because of Uncanny dodge)

hit points (including additional hp from CON bonus): 224

land speed of 40 ft/round

Initiative: +11

Carrying capacity becomes:

Light load: up to 233 lb
Medium load: up to 466 lb
Heavy load/lift over head: up to 700 lb
lift off ground up to 1400 lb
drag up to 3500 lb

attack with sun blade: +32 (+34 against evil creatures)
single attack with dagger/shield bash: +29
ranged attack with bow or shield spine: +29 (+27 when enlarged)
full attack with sun blade: +32/+27/+22/+17 (all attacks 2 higher against evil creatures)

full attack with sun blade plus shield bash: +30/+25/+20/+15/+27(shield bash)
grapple: 27 (32 when enlarged)

Weapon damage (including strength , weapon enhancement and weapon specialisation):

sun blade one-handed (i.e. with shield): d10+15, {+17 against evil}, 2d8+16 when enlarged{+18 against evil}, doubled against undead and negative energy plane outsiders
sun blade two-handed (i.e. no shield): d10+18 {16}, 2d8+ 20 {22} when enlarged, doubled against undead and negative energy plane outsiders. All of the above are slashing damage

shield spikes: d6+4, d8+5 when enlarged, piercing damage
dagger: d4+3, d6+4 when enlarged, slashing

Composite longbow: d8+6, 2d6+6 when enlarged, piercing


No bracers of armor


lose mithral full plate with heavy fortification, replace with celestial armor +4 with heavy fortification (armor bonus +9, max dex+8)

sun blade is +4, +6 against evil creatures,

mithral spined shield is now +5 mithral spined shield (shield bonus +7), shield spikes are +1 adamantium, spines can now be launched an unlimited number of times a day (but only once per round)

lose repeating light crossbow, replace with +1 seeking composite longbow, equipped with 20 normal arrows, 10 silver-tipped arrows, 10 cold iron arrows 10 adamantine-tipped arrows

replace adamantine dagger with normal masterwork dagger.

rings: 1 ring of protection+5, 1 ring of blinking

lose scabbard of keen edges, gauntlets of ogre power, amulet of health, helm of spell resistance 21.

Gain gloves of dexterity +6, amulet of spell resistance 21, shirt of strength+6, helm of resilient wisdom (+6 wisdom and iron will feat) eyes of the eagle +5

Belt of dwarvenkind now +6 con instead of +4 str, +2 con. All other features the same.

Cloak of resistance +5 now also has additional enlarge person power (as the spell), command word activation, unlimited uses per day, up to 3 minutes per use.

replace skill focus (intimidation) feat with two-weapon fighting feat {this means you only lose 2 on each attack roll when shield bashing, instead of 4 with your blade and 8 with the shield spikes}

can see invisibility (as the spell) permanently

have 6 potions of cure light wounds, 2 vials of antitoxin

115 gp, 9 sp left

Your items give you three special abilities that take a standard action to activate (i.e. instead of attacking that round):
Blink (makes you much more difficult to hit and incorporeal creatures no longer have an advantage against you for 7 rounds see spell description),
Enlarge person for up to three minutes (30 rounds) at a time this should be enough to last most encounters.
Once per day you can fly for up to 5 minutes (50 rounds) as the spell.

Options: you could also drop the improved initiative feat and take improved two-weapon fighting so you get an additional attack with your shield bash when doing a full attack, but I leave that up to you.

Ben Zwycky
03-04-2014, 12:41 PM
Sorry I had to split that up into to two, wouldn't fit into one post.

Suggestions for CV's character: the usual, gloves of dex +6, shirt of health +6, ring of protection +5, amulet of resistance+5.

The best type of armour would depend on your dex, if your dex bonus is +4 or less and you don't mind being slowed by your armour, then go for mithral full plate, if it's +6 or higher then do for what I did for Pinoy, go for celestial armor and upgrade it however you want, he wanted heavy fortification, so I gave him celestial armor +4 with heavy fortification, which gives him total immunity to critical hits and sneak attacks. My character's dex bonus is +5 and he can already fly, so I went for a mithral breastplate to save money.

Boots of speed are good, you can always increase their caster level to increase the number of rounds you can use it per day.

For your spellcasting, get lots of pearls of power, 4 or 5 pearl of power level 4's (only 16,000 gp each) and the same number of level 3's (9,000 each) will give you a lot of flexibility with your high-level spells, You can prepare 3 or 4 different level 4 spells and then re-use them as the need arises during the day.

That enough to exhaust your funds? :grin:

Pinoy
03-04-2014, 11:23 PM
I hope carrik will be agreeable with all these improvement of Farris.

Ben Zwycky
03-05-2014, 12:24 AM
If there's anything he objects to, we can always think of something else. Because of the way we improved your strength and dexterity, you also have the option of making your strength two higher and your dex two lower, or vice versa.

Ben Zwycky
03-05-2014, 01:19 AM
Another way to improve your intimidate skill is to take the Abrasive character trait:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#abrasive

Pinoy
03-05-2014, 01:21 AM
Is my shield have the range and the regeneration just like the magic spines shield in http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#spinedShield

This is what i was buying before just added mirthal so that it will be lighter.

Spined Shield
This +1 heavy steel shield is covered in spines. It acts as a normal spiked shield. On command up to three times per day, the shield’s wearer can fire one of the shield’s spines. A fired spine has a +1 enhancement bonus, a range increment of 120 feet, and deals 1d10 points of damage (19-20/×2). Fired spines regenerate each day.

Edit: ** the unlimited use of the spike in a very wonderful enhancement** and carrik as i understand is ok with it.

Pinoy
03-05-2014, 03:45 AM
I am thinking to make my fortification at 75% (or at least 50%) because critical hit and sneak attack may not happen often. With this i can add other enhancement.

What do you think? I just did 100% before because i do not know where to put my gold.

Carrikature
03-05-2014, 05:45 AM
Another way to improve your intimidate skill is to take the Abrasive character trait:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterTraits.htm#abrasive

No traits. :smile:

Pinoy
03-05-2014, 05:45 AM
Weapon damage (including strength , weapon enhancement and weapon specialisation):

sun blade one-handed (i.e. with shield): d10+15, {+17 against evil}, 2d8+16 when enlarged{+18 against evil}, doubled against undead and negative energy plane outsiders
sun blade two-handed (i.e. no shield): d10+18 {16}, 2d8+ 20 {22} when enlarged, doubled against undead and negative energy plane outsiders. All of the above are slashing damage

.


Question: the sun blade description says:
This sword is the size of a bastard sword. However, a sun blade is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use. (In other words, the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and deals bastard sword damage, but the wielder feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword.)

So i thought this means that even with shield (one hand use) the damage is still based on the bastard sword. The damage should not become short sword.

Pinoy
03-05-2014, 05:53 AM
No traits. :smile:


Yehey.. I understand that this is the only not agreeable change of Farris. I can live with that.

Ben Zwycky
03-05-2014, 10:26 AM
Question: the sun blade description says:
This sword is the size of a bastard sword. However, a sun blade is wielded as if it were a short sword with respect to weight and ease of use. (In other words, the weapon appears to all viewers to be a bastard sword, and deals bastard sword damage, but the wielder feels and reacts as if the weapon were a short sword.)

So i thought this means that even with shield (one hand use) the damage is still based on the bastard sword. The damage should not become short sword.


It's not short sword damage, it's the difference betwen wielding a one-handed weapon in one hand versus in two hands. Wielding a weapon in your one-handed means your full strength bonus is added to damage, wielding it with both hands then one and a half times your strength bonus applies. When wielding two weapons (in your case when shield bashing), your full strength bonus is added to damage done with the weapon in your primary hand, and half of your strength bonus applies to the weapon in your off hand. That's the difference.

The sun blade is a special kind of bastard sword that can be wielded as easily as a short sword, so you can treat it as a light weapon, one-handed weapon or two-handed weapon, whichever suits your current situation best, without sacrificing damage. With a conventional bastard sword, you'd need to take an additional feat to use it proficiently one-handed (so none of your bastard sword feats would work without taking exotic weapon proficiency first {or only ever using it two-handed}, with my character I got around this by taking weapon focus and improved critical with a short sword instead of a bastard sword. If you changed all of your bastard-sword-related feats to be for short swords instead, then this problem would disappear, but it's only a problem for conventional bastard swords, not for your sun blade.)

Without the uses per day restriction, the shield's ranged attack is exactly the same as that of a heavy crossbow +1, but with unlimited ammunition and easy to fire, so you could almost do without a bow altogether. I wasn't sure how to go about costing any further enhancements to it (e.g. launching two or more spines at once, adding the seeking ability or the adamantine material), since it's not completely clear whether it should be treated as a spell or a weapon.

What do you think, Carrik? It's listed as being based on magic missile, so multiple missiles at once (or the seeking ability) would be in keeping with that. Would it be doable to, say, treat it as a spell and double the cost of that aspect (i.e. another 7,400 gp to reach caster level 12) to launch two spikes at once, or alternatively to treat it as a ranged weapon and added 6000 or 10000 gp to add the seeking ability (as if going from a +1 weapon to a +2 weapon, or a +2 to a +3) and another 3000 gp to make the launched spines of adamantine? Or should we just leave it as it is and say no further enhancement is possible? That'd also be fine.

Another thing for CV to consider would be metamagic rods.

I'm fine with no traits, I'll have to take off the trait I had on my LL rogue.

Carrikature
03-05-2014, 10:58 AM
What do you think, Carrik? It's listed as being based on magic missile, so multiple missiles at once (or the seeking ability) would be in keeping with that. Would it be doable to, say, treat it as a spell and double the cost of that aspect (i.e. another 7,400 gp to reach caster level 12) to launch two spikes at once, or alternatively to treat it as a ranged weapon and added 6000 or 10000 gp to add the seeking ability (as if going from a +1 weapon to a +2 weapon, or a +2 to a +3) and another 3000 gp to make the launched spines of adamantine? Or should we just leave it as it is and say no further enhancement is possible? That'd also be fine.

Adamantine is fine. Two spikes at once doesn't work without some sort of aiming penalty. You're talking about a pointed object protruding from a convex surface; the two spikes won't be pointed the same way. I'd say no on multiple spikes at once. You could increase the uses per day, but I think the max would be 6. I'd have a hard time believing more spikes than that actually fit on one shield. Seeking would be ok to add only because the spikes become projectiles.

Pinoy
03-05-2014, 11:52 AM
Thanks for taking time to teach me.

Pinoy
03-05-2014, 12:28 PM
Weapon damage (including strength , weapon enhancement and weapon specialisation):

Gain gloves of dexterity +6, amulet of spell resistance 21, shirt of strength+6, helm of resilient wisdom (+6 wisdom and iron will feat) eyes of the eagle +5


I read the spell resistance description and noted "Spell resistance is the extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells". Does this mean that i am also not affected by cure spell by another?

I also noted "A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity." Is lowering the spell resistance need a "command word"?

:tongue:I know i choose the spell resistance. I just did not think it through before. :tongue:

Pinoy
03-05-2014, 12:41 PM
What do you think, Carrik? It's listed as being based on magic missile, so multiple missiles at once (or the seeking ability) would be in keeping with that. Would it be doable to, say, treat it as a spell and double the cost of that aspect (i.e. another 7,400 gp to reach caster level 12) to launch two spikes at once, or alternatively to treat it as a ranged weapon and added 6000 or 10000 gp to add the seeking ability (as if going from a +1 weapon to a +2 weapon, or a +2 to a +3) and another 3000 gp to make the launched spines of adamantine? Or should we just leave it as it is and say no further enhancement is possible? That'd also be fine.

Another thing for CV to consider would be metamagic rods.

I'm fine with no traits, I'll have to take off the trait I had on my LL rogue.


Adamantine is fine. Two spikes at once doesn't work without some sort of aiming penalty. You're talking about a pointed object protruding from a convex surface; the two spikes won't be pointed the same way. I'd say no on multiple spikes at once. You could increase the uses per day, but I think the max would be 6. I'd have a hard time believing more spikes than that actually fit on one shield. Seeking would be ok to add only because the spikes become projectiles.

So i can only use 6 spikes but the features listed below are still available right
- A fired spine has a +1 enhancement bonus, a range increment of 120 feet, and deals 1d10 points of damage (19-20/×2).
- Fired spines regenerate each day.

I am also adding seeking and admit to the spikes. Thanks carrik. (also thanks Ben for helping me out).

Ben Zwycky
03-05-2014, 01:51 PM
Yep, but bear in mind that you'll need to add another 16,400 gp to the cost of the shield to do that (7,400 for the extra uses per day, 3,000 for adamantium and 6,000 for seeking. This is okay if you go for celestial armor +5 with moderate fortification (effectively +8) instead of celestial armor +4 with heavy fortification (effectively +9), because doing that will save you 17,000 gp, so you have an extra 600 gp left.

Ben Zwycky
03-05-2014, 02:06 PM
I read the spell resistance description and noted "Spell resistance is the extraordinary ability to avoid being affected by spells". Does this mean that i am also not affected by cure spell by another?

I also noted "A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity." Is lowering the spell resistance need a "command word"?

:tongue:I know i choose the spell resistance. I just did not think it through before. :tongue:

If it doesn't say command word, then you just want it to happen and it happens. With all these 'command words' it's not a list of actual words you need to know, you just tell Carrik that you want to activate the given item or ability. It's just a description of the in-game mechanism for how it occurs. e.g. You can't speak a command word if you're in an area of magical silence.

Pinoy
03-05-2014, 02:18 PM
Here is the updated equipments of Farris (please check for the cost i think i am over the limit)

Celestial Armor - heavy fortification (+9AC +8 dec) 94,400
Gloves of Dexterity (+6dex) 36,000
Sun blade (+4/+6) 98,335
Mirthal Spined Shield (spined adamantium, 6 ranged spine per day/regenerate daily, with seeking,
attacked 1d10, crit 19-20/x2, seeking 40,980
Cloak of Resistance with enlarge (+5 saves) 33,100
Amulet of Resistance 21 90,000
Belt of Dwarvenking +6 con 46,900
Shirt of Strength + 6 36,000
Ring of Protection + 5 50,000
Ring of Blink 27,000
Helm of Wisdom + 6 36,000
See Invisibility 5,630
Total 594,345

I am over by 14,345gp.

If i make my fortification at 75%, i am thinking this will save me 16,000gp. With this i will only have 1,655 extra gp for potion and some gear (rope, explorer outfit, potion bag, bow without enhancement).

Also, I remove intimidate feat and initiate feat. changed it to two-weapon fighting and improve two-weapon fighting.

which is better: short sword or bastard sword for my weapon feats.

Pinoy
03-05-2014, 04:38 PM
If i only have 6 spine for range, i think the adamantium for the spine is not necessary. This will give me 3000 more gold. I can buy more potion and better bow with this

Also, i think i will also remove the seeking since in is only 6 spines. contemplating on going 3 rather than 6 spine for range (i will just used the spine sparingly). maybe i just have bow seeking instead.

I will think of the additional enhancement of the shield and the bow. coz' will be more on melee.

Ben Zwycky
03-06-2014, 04:11 AM
Sorry, I miscalculated, it should only be another 4,400 gp, another 3000 gp less

heavy fortification is +5 bonus, moderate fortification is +3 bonus, so the difference between +4 armor with heavy fortification and +5 with moderate is 17,000 gp, +4 with moderate would be another 15,000 gp less. Let's go for that to enable us to do something good (see below)

Short sword feats are better, because they can then be used with normal short swords.

I think we're overcomplicating this, CV's solution is better. Forget about shield bashing altogether, drop the spined shield and get a normal +5 animated shield (49170 gp). You can command that to protect you by itself, freeing up both your hands to either wield your sun blade two-handed, use your bow or use two weapons (e.g. a short sword +1 for your off-hand, it's always better to have a light weapon in your off hand, and all your short sword feats will apply again). You can then drop your improved shield bashing feat and get greater two-weapon fighting instead. We could reduce the duration on the enlarge person to 2 minutes to save us another 2700 gp, then we can afford the +1 seeking composite longbow SR5

equipment becomes:

celestial armor +4 with moderate fortification 62400 gp
gloves of dex +6 36000 gp
sun blade +4/+6 98335 gp
animated shield +5 49170 gp
cloak of resistance +5 with enlarge CL2 30400 gp
amulet of spell resistance 21 90000 gp
belt of dwarvenkind+6 con 46900 gp
shirt of strength +6 36000 gp
ring of protection+5 50000 gp
ring of blinking 27000 gp
helm of wisdom+6 36000 gp
see invisibility with permanence 5630 gp
seeking composite longbow +1 SR 5 8900 gp
30 normal arrows 3 gp
10 silver-tipped arrows 20 gp
10 cold-iron-tipped arrows 2 gp
5 adamantine-tipped arrows 300 gp
short sword +1 2310 gp
4 x potion CLW 200 gp
2 x antitoxin 100 gp

total 579,670
leaving you 330 gp for miscellaneous equipment (climber's kit, clothing etc)

That looks a bit better, doesn't it?

I also had a look at your classes, you only get a bonus feat at every even-numbered level of fighter, but you get additional abilities (and more hit points and skill points) with each level of barbarian, so what would happen if you went for barbarian 8 fighter 12 instead of barbarian 7, fighter 13? You'd get

one d12 hit die instead of a d10 hit die (on average one extra hp, so just add one hp for simplicity)
two extra skill points
rage 3/day instead of 2/day
fortitude save 1 higher (saves also go up on even-numbered class levels)

You'd lose:

nothing

So let's go for that, shall we?

Carrikature
03-06-2014, 06:33 AM
I think we're overcomplicating this

:lol:

Ben Zwycky
03-06-2014, 08:06 AM
Ok, I'm overcomplicating this, as is my nature, just trying to get Pinoy the most bang for his buck.

Pinoy
03-06-2014, 08:27 AM
Is the animated shield is still mirthal shield?

Pinoy
03-06-2014, 08:28 AM
or is it a heavy shield

Carrikature
03-06-2014, 09:11 AM
Animated shield is a spell effect that can be applied to any shield type.

Ben Zwycky
03-06-2014, 10:06 AM
It's a normal heavy steel shield, making it out of mithral would cost an extra 1000 gp.

Pinoy
03-06-2014, 08:07 PM
equipment becomes:

celestial armor +4 with moderate fortification 62400 gp


Sorry if i am complicating this much, i hope not. The barbarian uncanny dodge ability already cover against all sneak attack, right? Or only for rouge sneak attack?

If the barbarian uncanny dodge ability already cover all sneak attacks, i am can lower my fortification to 50% if possible or to 25% (light fortification). so that i can improve the attack and damage of my other short sword.

How can they hit me with critical if i dispatched them immediately.

:pray:i hope critical hits will not happen often in the game.:tongue:
also, i have 1 damage reduction

Pinoy
03-06-2014, 08:26 PM
....

Spartacus
03-06-2014, 08:27 PM
Improved Uncanny Dodge protects against all sneak attacks by anyone without at least 4 more levels in a class that grants sneak attack (like rogue) than you have in a class that grants uncanny dodge (like barbarian). Since you have 7 or 8 levels in Barbarian, the enemy would have to be at least a level 11 or 12 rogue in order to sneak attack you successfully.

Whether you have to deal with critical hits depends on your opponent: if they're using any type of sword or crossbow, they're more more likely than usual to score critical hits. Incidentally, rogues tend to favor swords and crossbows... but if they're close enough to sneak attack you, they're probably close enough for you to smash their faces in.

Pinoy
03-06-2014, 09:38 PM
sorry if i am too complicating thing.. :smile:

animated shield +5 49170 gp - add 5 ac
celestial armor +4 with moderate fortification 62400 gp - protects me against critical 50%
cloak of resistance +5 with enlarge CL2 30400 gp - add to my saves
amulet of spell resistance 21 90000 gp - protects against spells
ring of protection+5 50000 gp - add AC (deflection)
ring of blinking 27000 gp - protections from incorporeal
physical attacks are 50% chance of hitting

i can blink 20 round per encounter or per day? (blink = 1 round/level)

If i drop my shield ? can i have another sun blade? (shield is 49,170 + short sword 2,310 enough for sun blade 50,335)
What is the best enhancement to my short sword if i drop the animated shield?

i am thinking
instead of

In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 bastard sword. Against evil creatures, its enhancement bonus is +4. Against Negative Energy Plane creatures or undead creatures, the sword deals double damage (and ×3 on a critical hit instead of the usual ×2).

the change is

In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 bastard sword. negative eternal creature, its enhancement bonus is +4. negative or evil incorporeal creature, the sword deals double damage (and ×3 on a critical hit instead of the usual ×2).

Ben Zwycky
03-07-2014, 06:56 AM
You can blink with the ring an unlimited number of times per day, but you need to activate it (a standard action) to gain 7 rounds of blinking. Moderate fortification will nullify sneak attacks and critical hits 75% of the time, not 50%. There are other types of special attack that will be nullified by immunity to critical hits (e.g. wounding weapons, stunning fist) but we aren't likely to encounter those very often. While blinking, your weapons will effectively be halfway to being ghost touch (only a 20% chance of missing due to being ethereal or physical instead of 50%).

An alternative to a sun blade +4/+6 plus normal short sword +1 is to have two sun blades , both of them +2/+4, this will only cost 25 gp more. You wouldn't need to lose the shield to do that, and the shield will give you +7 AC (+2 for the shield itself, another +5 due to the enhancement).

Discarding the fortification altogether will save you 39,000 gp. Doing this and leaving out the see invisibility will save you 44,630 in total, which would enable you to have the two sun blades each +3/+5 (or each with a different enhancement worth a +1 bonus), the difference between a +5 weapon (50,000) and a +6 weapon (72,000) is 22,000 gp. You can always have someone cast the see invisibility with permanency on Farris at a later date (after we've made some money).

Pinoy
03-07-2014, 07:06 AM
i am thinking
instead of

In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 bastard sword. Against evil creatures, its enhancement bonus is +4. Against Negative Energy Plane creatures or undead creatures, the sword deals double damage (and ×3 on a critical hit instead of the usual ×2).

the change is

In normal combat, the glowing golden blade of the weapon is equal to a +2 bastard sword. negative eternal creature, its enhancement bonus is +4. negative or evil incorporeal creature, the sword deals double damage (and ×3 on a critical hit instead of the usual ×2).

Ben Zwycky
03-07-2014, 07:31 AM
What's a negative eternal creature? Incorporeal creatures are immune to critical hits, so I think it'd be better to just leave it as it is, incorporeal creatures are basically all undead, so it's already covered, maybe add ghost touch to one of your sun blades and pick something else for the other one (or leave it as +3) if you really want to cover more options.

Pinoy
03-07-2014, 07:32 AM
Discarding the fortification altogether will save you 39,000 gp. Doing this and leaving out the see invisibility will save you 44,630 in total, which would enable you to have the two sun blades each +3/+5 (or each with a different enhancement worth a +1 bonus), the difference between a +5 weapon (50,000) and a +6 weapon (72,000) is 22,000 gp. You can always have someone cast the see invisibility with permanency on Farris at a later date (after we've made some money).

ok the shield stays.. discarding the fortification seem good. what is the cost of each sun blade with the additional enhancement of +1 bonus or (+3/+5). i will probable go into +1 bonus if i can find a good +1 bonus enhancement

Ben Zwycky
03-07-2014, 07:44 AM
the cost of each sun blade (+3/+5 or equivalent) will be 72,335 gp

Pinoy
03-07-2014, 07:47 AM
the cost of each sun blade (+3/+5 or equivalent) will be 72,335 gp

Thanks you for being patient with me

Pinoy
03-07-2014, 08:10 AM
if i will just have the two sun blades, where can i best use the 46,940 gp (39,000 from fortification; 2,310 for the short sword, 5,630 see invisibility)

or atleast - 42,310 (39,000+2310) i will retain the see invisibility


will this add to my armour.
Bracers of Armor
These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, mage armor, creator’s caster level must be at least two times that of the bonus placed in the bracers; Price 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5), 36,000 gp (+6), 49,000 gp (+7), 64,000 gp (+8); Weight 1 lb.

Pinoy
03-07-2014, 08:33 AM
Whirlwind Attack [General]
Prerequisites
Dex 13, Int 13, Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, base attack bonus +4.

Benefit
When you use the full attack action, you can give up your regular attacks and instead make one melee attack at your full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach.

When you use the Whirlwind Attack feat, you also forfeit any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats, spells, or abilities.

What is the effect of my sun blade when i use whirlwind? will the sun blade effect becomes bastard sword? If i drop this feat what is the next best thing.

Spartacus
03-07-2014, 08:48 AM
Calm down. Just like the feat says, you're trading all of your regular attacks for one attack on every enemy in reach. It doesn't affect the special abilities of your weapon. The bolded portion refers to feats like the two-handed weapon feats and spells and abilities like Haste. It doesn't suddenly ignore your weapons' bonus damage, it just means you can't use the whirlwind attack and then use other attacks on the same turn.

Pinoy
03-07-2014, 08:49 AM
so if i use whirlwind i can't use two-weapon fighting feat. liveable

Spartacus
03-07-2014, 09:10 AM
so if i use whirlwind i can't use two-weapon fighting feat. liveable

Basically, you'll want to use whirlwind attack when you have either a lot of enemies in reach or several enemies with high Armor Class. That is, Whirlwind attack is good either when there are more enemies around you than you would otherwise be able to attack with your regular number of attacks, or if the enemies near you are likely to avoid your attacks if you use attacks with a lower to-hit bonus.

Pinoy
03-07-2014, 09:12 AM
if i will just have the two sun blades, where can i best use the 46,940 gp (39,000 from fortification; 2,310 for the short sword, 5,630 see invisibility)

or atleast - 42,310 (39,000+2310) i will retain the see invisibility


will this add to my armour.
Bracers of Armor
These items appear to be wrist or arm guards. They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, granting him an armor bonus of +1 to +8, just as though he were wearing armor. Both bracers must be worn for the magic to be effective.

Moderate conjuration; CL 7th; Craft Wondrous Item, mage armor, creator’s caster level must be at least two times that of the bonus placed in the bracers; Price 1,000 gp (+1), 4,000 gp (+2), 9,000 gp (+3), 16,000 gp (+4), 25,000 gp (+5), 36,000 gp (+6), 49,000 gp (+7), 64,000 gp (+8); Weight 1 lb.

Ben Zwycky
03-07-2014, 09:36 AM
The second sun blade is replacing the short sword, that saving was already included in the cost calculation (sun blade +4/+6 98,335, short sword 2,310 versus two times 50,335), so you have 44,610 gp plus whatever money you had left.

You could either add some feats to your items, e.g. iron will (+2 to will saves) on your wisdom helmet, lightning reflexes (+2 to reflex saves) to your gloves of dexterity, each of which would cost 15,000 gp, or improve your bow, or increase the enhancement on your celestial armor back to +5 (costing 9,000 gp)

So, gloves of dex granting lightning reflexes plus helmet of wisdom granting iron will plus celestial armor +5 with no fortification would mean an extra 39,000 gp, so you could keep your see invisibility and both normal sun blades and be only down 25 gp. This would be nice and straightforward, giving you no other special features to manage.

Alternatively, you could make your ring of blinking be also a minor ring of spell storing, costing 54,000 gp instead of 27,000, so an extra 27,000 gp. You could then make the bow a +2 seeking composite longbow (18,900, so an extra 10,000 gp), have an efficient quiver (1800 gp) and have an extra 200 gp for miscellaneous items.

A ring of spell storing would mean more things to keep track of, but can be very useful, especially since we have some relatively high-level spellcasters in the party. You can have other people in the party cast level 1, 2 or 3 spells into the ring, which you can then use whenever you want (a maximum of three levels of spells can be stored in the ring at any one time, i.e. three level 1 spells, a level 1 and a level 2 or a single level 3 spell can be stored there). Once you use a particular spell, it's gone and someone else has to cast something into the ring for you to use.

This means that other people in the party can give you three of the really nice level 1 buff spells that only affect the caster, e.g. true strike {+20 insight bonus on your single next attack roll, but this has to be used in the next round}, divine favour caster level 9 {+3 luck bonus on all attack and damage rolls for the next minute (ten rounds)}, entropic shield caster level 7 {all ranged attacks against you have a 20% miss chance for the next 7 minutes}.

Spartacus
03-07-2014, 10:21 AM
I thought y'all already went over the fact that Bracers of Armor don't help you if you're already wearing other armor?

Ben Zwycky
03-07-2014, 10:28 AM
Pinoy, bracers of armor won't help you, we've already gone over this once.

Pinoy
03-07-2014, 04:54 PM
The second sun blade is replacing the short sword, that saving was already included in the cost calculation (sun blade +4/+6 98,335, short sword 2,310 versus two times 50,335), so you have 44,610 gp plus whatever money you had left.

You could either add some feats to your items, e.g. iron will (+2 to will saves) on your wisdom helmet, lightning reflexes (+2 to reflex saves) to your gloves of dexterity, each of which would cost 15,000 gp, or improve your bow, or increase the enhancement on your celestial armor back to +5 (costing 9,000 gp)

So, gloves of dex granting lightning reflexes plus helmet of wisdom granting iron will plus celestial armor +5 with no fortification would mean an extra 39,000 gp, so you could keep your see invisibility and both normal sun blades and be only down 25 gp. This would be nice and straightforward, giving you no other special features to manage.

Alternatively, you could make your ring of blinking be also a minor ring of spell storing, costing 54,000 gp instead of 27,000, so an extra 27,000 gp. You could then make the bow a +2 seeking composite longbow (18,900, so an extra 10,000 gp), have an efficient quiver (1800 gp) and have an extra 200 gp for miscellaneous items.

A ring of spell storing would mean more things to keep track of, but can be very useful, especially since we have some relatively high-level spellcasters in the party. You can have other people in the party cast level 1, 2 or 3 spells into the ring, which you can then use whenever you want (a maximum of three levels of spells can be stored in the ring at any one time, i.e. three level 1 spells, a level 1 and a level 2 or a single level 3 spell can be stored there). Once you use a particular spell, it's gone and someone else has to cast something into the ring for you to use.

This means that other people in the party can give you three of the really nice level 1 buff spells that only affect the caster, e.g. true strike {+20 insight bonus on your single next attack roll, but this has to be used in the next round}, divine favour caster level 9 {+3 luck bonus on all attack and damage rolls for the next minute (ten rounds)}, entropic shield caster level 7 {all ranged attacks against you have a 20% miss chance for the next 7 minutes}.

Ok i will go with minor ring of storing (27,000gp), +5 to celestial armor (9,000gp), efficient quiver (1,800), adamite for shield (2,000).

Thanks.

Ben Zwycky
03-08-2014, 12:04 AM
you only had 200 gp left over, not 2,000 gp. You can have either the efficient quiver or the shield made of adamantine, not both

Ben Zwycky
03-08-2014, 02:34 AM
By the way, my character has 2 wands, barkskin CL 12 (+5 enhancement to natural armor bonus for 2 hours), costing 18000 gp and resist energy CL 11 (selected energy resistance 30 lasting 110 minutes) costing 8250 gp {resist energy is a level 1 ranger spell, making it much cheaper as a wand}, which will be available for the whole party to use (they can be cast on anyone in the party and the wands themselves can be activated by anyone with levels in druid, ranger or cleric). If someone wants to make a contribution towards them, or if you Spart want to buy the resist energy wand instead of me, then I'll be able to increase the resistance bonus on my saves to +5 instead of +4. Any takers?

Pinoy
03-08-2014, 02:35 AM
you only had 200 gp left over, not 2,000 gp. You can have either the efficient quiver or the shield made of adamantine, not both

I can always buy the efficient quiver later. So i will get the adamantine.
For the meantime, if i will store cure light wound in the ring, rather than buy cure light wound potion. How much is the cost of the cure? Also with anti toxin?

Pinoy
03-08-2014, 03:12 AM
I can buy the wand if no one else will do it. I can buy bow seeking later. I will buy a regular bow for now.

Ben Zwycky
03-08-2014, 03:12 AM
I can always buy the efficient quiver later. So i will get the adamantine.
For the meantime, if i will store cure light wound in the ring, rather than buy cure light wound potion. How much is the cost of the cure? Also with anti toxin?

Antitoxin is an alchemical substance, not a spell, you can't store that in the ring. Someone else would have to cast cure light wounds (or cure moderate as a second level spell or cure serious as a third-level spell) into the ring for you, but cure light wounds potions are useful as an emergency backup, since you can pour it down someone's throat when they're unconscious or dying. (This won't apply to you, since you have the diehard feat).

Ben Zwycky
03-08-2014, 03:14 AM
Your HL character can't activate the wand, since he has no ranger levels, but I expect we'll be travelling together most of the time, so it could work. Thanks. You'll need to save 8250 gp, dropping your bow to non-magical masterwork will save you 8000. If you have 250 gp left over, then you can cover that, otherwise you'll have to go for a non-masterwork bow or lose a few potions to cover the cost of the wand.

Pinoy
03-08-2014, 12:11 PM
Your HL character can't activate the wand, since he has no ranger levels, but I expect we'll be travelling together most of the time, so it could work. Thanks. You'll need to save 8250 gp, dropping your bow to non-magical masterwork will save you 8000. If you have 250 gp left over, then you can cover that, otherwise you'll have to go for a non-masterwork bow or lose a few potions to cover the cost of the wand.
I will wait for others, they might buy it. Otherwise, i will.

Ben Zwycky
03-08-2014, 01:09 PM
I'm sorry, I made a mistake with the see invisibility with permanency, you can only do it with see invisibility when you are casting the spells yourself (which is obviously impossible for your character). Something with almost the same effect for the same price is to have goggles that on command three times a dayenable you to see invisibility as the spell (caster level 3, so lasting 30 minutes each time), which would cost 6480 gp. I think this is 50 gp less than what I said for see invisibility with permanency. My apologies for the mistake.

Pinoy
03-08-2014, 03:30 PM
You can blink with the ring an unlimited number of times per day, but you need to activate it (a standard action) to gain 7 rounds of blinking. Moderate fortification will nullify sneak attacks and critical hits 75% of the time, not 50%. There are other types of special attack that will be nullified by immunity to critical hits (e.g. wounding weapons, stunning fist) but we aren't likely to encounter those very often. While blinking, your weapons will effectively be halfway to being ghost touch (only a 20% chance of missing due to being ethereal or physical .

Does this mean that when i am blinking, my attacks has 20% failure?

Ben Zwycky
03-08-2014, 10:30 PM
Does this mean that when i am blinking, my attacks has 20% failure?

Yes, but other people's attacks against you will have a 50% chance of failure (unless their weapons are ghost touch and they can see invisibility)

Ben Zwycky
03-08-2014, 11:02 PM
Carrik, could I have this instead of the circlet of persuasion?

Information Magnet
This silken headband has an intricate and relaxing pattern weaved into it, along with memory-jogging magic that makes people more prone to remembering and mentioning helpful little tidbits of information in your presence, granting a +8 competence bonus on Gather Information checks

Pinoy
03-08-2014, 11:27 PM
Yes, but other people's attacks against you will have a 50% chance of failure (unless their weapons are ghost touch and they can see invisibility)

Ok atleast i will have an idea when to use it.

how is the 20% failure computed? in the game, do i have to roll d100?

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 12:02 AM
is this better rage that the regular rage?

Rage Variant: Whirling Frenzy
A barbarian with this variant form of rage doesn't gain the normal bonuses when he enters a rage. Instead, when a barbarian with whirling frenzy enters a rage, he temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength and a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves. While in a whirling frenzy, the barbarian may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the barbarian might make before his next action.

Whirling frenzy is otherwise identical to the standard barbarian rage in all other ways. At 11th level (when a standard barbarian gains greater rage), the Strength bonus increases to +6, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +3. At 20th level (when a standard barbarian gains mighty rage), the Strength bonus increases to +8, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +4.

A barbarian using this variant doesn't gain indomitable will at 14th level. Instead, he gains evasion, but only while in a whirling frenzy.

A character can't use whirling frenzy at the same time that he uses any other form of rage (or similar ability).

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 12:03 AM
Calm down. Just like the feat says, you're trading all of your regular attacks for one attack on every enemy in reach. It doesn't affect the special abilities of your weapon. The bolded portion refers to feats like the two-handed weapon feats and spells and abilities like Haste. It doesn't suddenly ignore your weapons' bonus damage, it just means you can't use the whirlwind attack and then use other attacks on the same turn.

While in rage, can i use whirlwind?

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 03:12 AM
is this better rage that the regular rage?

Rage Variant: Whirling Frenzy
A barbarian with this variant form of rage doesn't gain the normal bonuses when he enters a rage. Instead, when a barbarian with whirling frenzy enters a rage, he temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength and a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves. While in a whirling frenzy, the barbarian may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the barbarian might make before his next action.

Whirling frenzy is otherwise identical to the standard barbarian rage in all other ways. At 11th level (when a standard barbarian gains greater rage), the Strength bonus increases to +6, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +3. At 20th level (when a standard barbarian gains mighty rage), the Strength bonus increases to +8, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +4.

A barbarian using this variant doesn't gain indomitable will at 14th level. Instead, he gains evasion, but only while in a whirling frenzy.

A character can't use whirling frenzy at the same time that he uses any other form of rage (or similar ability).


I believe i need the +2 to dodge and reflex more that the increase in constitution. In a addition, by this i can have additional attack. The faster i can dispatch the enemy the better.

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 04:44 AM
Here is the updated Farris character sheet, please review

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ldw0ds554yaiz72/Farris.xls

I believe "Rage Variant: Whirling Frenzy" is good for me.

I still have 4077 gp (what's best use?)

Ben Zwycky
03-09-2014, 06:08 AM
You can use whirlwind attack while raging, you just can't do anything that requires concentration, e.g. activating any uses of your magic items when raging (they won't stop being active if they already are, you just can't start a new use while raging). I'd say whirling Frenzy (if Carrik allows it) would fit your character better (paralleling his high dex, boots of speed and whirlwind attack feats). Unlike normal rage, your chances of hitting don't increase, your will saves remain your main vulnerability and it won't last as long as a normal rage (by two rounds), but I think the extra attacks and defence more than make up for it, since your high Con bonus means you get eight extra attacks with your highest chance of hitting.

If you have that much left, you could either make your bow a basic magical composite longbow +1 Strength rating 5 (without seking) for another 2500 gp, and buy another 5 adamantine arrows, costing you 301 gp, it should have been 300.5 gp for the previous 5 and 21 rather than 20 for the 10 silver ones (I forgot to include the basic cost of the ammunition). Alternatively, you could increase the caster level on your boots of speed so you can use it more rounds per day (1,200 gp per caster level, each extra caster level gives you an extra round per day)

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 06:31 AM
You can use whirlwind attack while raging, you just can't do anything that requires concentration, e.g. activating any uses of your magic items when raging (they won't stop being active if they already are, you just can't start a new use while raging). I'd say whirling Frenzy (if Carrik allows it) would fit your character better (paralleling his high dex, boots of speed and whirlwind attack feats). Unlike normal rage, your chances of hitting don't increase, your will saves remain your main vulnerability and it won't last as long as a normal rage (by two rounds), but I think the extra attacks and defence more than make up for it, since your high Con bonus means you get eight extra attacks with your highest chance of hitting.

If you have that much left, you could either make your bow a basic magical composite longbow +1 Strength rating 5, or increase the caster level on your boots of speed so you can use it more rounds per day (1,200 gp per caster level, each extra caster level gives you an extra round per day)


added to celestial armour
Spell Resistance
This property grants the armor’s wearer spell resistance while the armor is worn. The spell resistance can be 13, 15, 17, or 19, depending on the armor.

Strong abjuration; CL 15th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, spell resistance; Price +2 bonus (SR 13), +3 bonus (SR 15), +4 bonus (SR 17), or +5 bonus (SR 19). (this is only 25,000)

I guess this is cheaper that my current spell resistance (currently my amulet of resistance is 90,000)

Ben Zwycky
03-09-2014, 07:03 AM
added to celestial armour
Spell Resistance
This property grants the armor’s wearer spell resistance while the armor is worn. The spell resistance can be 13, 15, 17, or 19, depending on the armor.

Strong abjuration; CL 15th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, spell resistance; Price +2 bonus (SR 13), +3 bonus (SR 15), +4 bonus (SR 17), or +5 bonus (SR 19). (this is only 25,000)

I guess this is cheaper that my current spell resistance (currently my amulet of resistance is 90,000)

No, your armor's current bonus is +5, this would make it effectively +10, so 100,000 gp just for the enhancement and enhancement equivalent abilities, i.e. 75,000 gp more for spell resistance 19 (and would also take the item's overall cost over the 100,000 gp limit whne you add in the cost of the armor itself and it's other abilities)

Your current amulet is 90,000 gp for spell resistance 21, it would cost 70,000 gp for spell resistance 19

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 07:31 AM
celestial armour and +5 bonus (SR19) will be [94,400gp]

just like this (before)
Celestial Armor - heavy fortification (+9AC +8 dec) 94,400

Ben Zwycky
03-09-2014, 07:55 AM
Yes, if you reduce the actual armor enhancement on the celestial armor to +4 instead of +5

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 07:59 AM
Yes, if you reduce the actual armor enhancement on the celestial armor to +4 instead of +5

thanks this is much cheaper. so that i can have the boot of speed again.

Ben Zwycky
03-09-2014, 09:47 AM
Definitely take the boots of speed.

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 04:32 PM
Ghost touch to my other sunblade is better rather that just +3/+5.


So with this.
I have sunblade +3/+5 and sunblade with ghost touch +2/+4.

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 04:37 PM
is this better rage that the regular rage?

Rage Variant: Whirling Frenzy
A barbarian with this variant form of rage doesn't gain the normal bonuses when he enters a rage. Instead, when a barbarian with whirling frenzy enters a rage, he temporarily gains a +4 bonus to Strength and a +2 dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves. While in a whirling frenzy, the barbarian may make one extra attack in a round at his highest base attack bonus, but this attack takes a -2 penalty, as does each other attack made that round. This penalty applies for 1 round, so it also affects attacks of opportunity the barbarian might make before his next action.

Whirling frenzy is otherwise identical to the standard barbarian rage in all other ways. At 11th level (when a standard barbarian gains greater rage), the Strength bonus increases to +6, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +3. At 20th level (when a standard barbarian gains mighty rage), the Strength bonus increases to +8, and the dodge bonus to Armor Class and on Reflex saves increases to +4.

A barbarian using this variant doesn't gain indomitable will at 14th level. Instead, he gains evasion, but only while in a whirling frenzy.

A character can't use whirling frenzy at the same time that he uses any other form of rage (or similar ability).
Carrik i hope i have this instead of the regular rage

Spartacus
03-09-2014, 05:36 PM
Carrik i hope i have this instead of the regular rage

It's one of the variants on the SRD; I can't imagine him rejecting it.

That said, Whirling Frenzy is not "better" rage, it's "different" rage.

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 06:48 PM
It's one of the variants on the SRD; I can't imagine him rejecting it.

That said, Whirling Frenzy is not "better" rage, it's "different" rage.

Better for my character. it will give me additional attack.

For normal attack [full action] (i have greater two-weapon feat):
main, off hand, offhand

with haste only:
main, off hand, off hand, + 1 attack (any i am holding)

with rage (variant) only,
main, off hand, off hand, + 1 attack (highest base)

with haste and rage (variant)
main, offhand , offhand, +1attack (haste), +1 attack (highest base).

I hope i understand it correctly.

Spartacus
03-09-2014, 08:03 PM
The trade-off is one more attack per turn and getting harder to hit with basic attacks and reflex-targeting spells, versus being harder to kill and less vulnerable to spells that target your Will save. In other words, you can choose to be vulnerable to Enchantment-focused wizards or to Evocation-focused ones. I think Whirling Frenzy does suit your character a bit better on at least one level, but I'm not the most efficient power-gamer in the room.

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 08:19 PM
The trade-off is one more attack per turn and getting harder to hit with basic attacks and reflex-targeting spells, versus being harder to kill and less vulnerable to spells that target your Will save. In other words, you can choose to be vulnerable to Enchantment-focused wizards or to Evocation-focused ones. I think Whirling Frenzy does suit your character a bit better on at least one level, but I'm not the most efficient power-gamer in the room.


I hope the spell resistance 19 and iron will +2 (will save) in my helm is enough for most of our encounter. Also, i hope the +2 resistance bonus on saves against poison, spells, or spell-like effects. in my drawnven belt can be added.

Carrikature
03-09-2014, 08:45 PM
Carrik, could I have this instead of the circlet of persuasion?

Information Magnet
This silken headband has an intricate and relaxing pattern weaved into it, along with memory-jogging magic that makes people more prone to remembering and mentioning helpful little tidbits of information in your presence, granting a +8 competence bonus on Gather Information checks

Yep, 6400gp.



It's one of the variants on the SRD; I can't imagine him rejecting it.

That said, Whirling Frenzy is not "better" rage, it's "different" rage.

The SRD variants are actually from UA, and there's quite a few that I wouldn't allow. I'm trying to keep this reasonably normal with minor exceptions. In this case, I personally am not convinced the tradeoffs are worth it, but I don't have any problem with allowing Pinoy to use it. Note to all: the lack of constitution bonus with the rage means its duration is reduced. At level 20, the Whirling Frenzy lasts four rounds less than Mighty Rage would.

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 11:45 PM
The trade-off is one more attack per turn and getting harder to hit with basic attacks and reflex-targeting spells, versus being harder to kill and less vulnerable to spells that target your Will save. In other words, you can choose to be vulnerable to Enchantment-focused wizards or to Evocation-focused ones. I think Whirling Frenzy does suit your character a bit better on at least one level, but I'm not the most efficient power-gamer in the room.

Periapt of Wisdom
Although it appears to be a normal pearl on a light chain, a periapt of wisdom actually increases the possessors Wisdom score in the form of an enhancement bonus of +2, +4, or +6 (depending on the individual item).

Moderate transmutation; CL 8th; Craft Wondrous Item, owls wisdom; Price 4,000 gp (+2), 16,000 gp (+4), 36,000 gp (+6).

Is there a maximum addition to abilities? I already have +6 from my helm.

Pinoy
03-09-2014, 11:47 PM
Yep, 6400gp.




The SRD variants are actually from UA, and there's quite a few that I wouldn't allow. I'm trying to keep this reasonably normal with minor exceptions. In this case, I personally am not convinced the tradeoffs are worth it, but I don't have any problem with allowing Pinoy to use it. Note to all: the lack of constitution bonus with the rage means its duration is reduced. At level 20, the Whirling Frenzy lasts four rounds less than Mighty Rage would.

is the regular rage better or the variant:
variant = 2 (spart, ben)
regular = 1 (carrik)

variant rage is 3+ cons modifier, 3+5 = 8 rounds
regular rage is 3+ new cons modifier, 3+7 = 10 rounds

Ben Zwycky
03-10-2014, 03:37 AM
The thing is, spell resistance 19 is only going to help against low caster level enemies. We are level 20. Any enemy caster level 15 or higher is going to overcome your spell resistance almost every time. A ring of counterspell will only protect you against one specific spell once before it has to be charged again, so it's very easy to bypass. A much better defence against spells would be a ring (or amulet) of spell turning, but that's expensive (98,280 gp for three uses per day, so 65520 gp for two uses per day)

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#spellTurning

the plusses and minuses of the two rage variants. Whirling Frenzy is a better fit to your character, but not necessarily the best for you in terms of your character's weaknesses

whirling frenzy gives you

better attack overall

better defence against normal and touch attacks

better reflex saves

conventional rage

better fortitude and will saves (will saves are your main weakness)

lasts longer.

If we ever face an incorporeal foe, Chrs' wizard could cast etherealness on us (assuming he's learned and prepared that spell)

If you have any money left over, you could do what I did with my character and buy a masterwork cold iron halberd (620 gp) and an adamantine heavy flail (3015 gp). You could also have one of your sun blades be silvered (180 gp). This would reduce it's damage by 1 (so it would be best to do this for the one you most often use in your off hand), but make it bypass the damage reduction of a lot of creatures, in which cases you'd use that one in your primary hand or two-handed. Assuming CV has a number of 'bless weapons' prepared (or one prepared and lots of pearls of power level 1 {only 1,000 gp each}, this is a cheap way of overcoming the damage reduction of just about any non-epic creature by choosing the appropriate weapon.

Pinoy
03-10-2014, 07:22 AM
Ok remove. Spell resistance. I will just buy periapt of wisdom +6
In total my wisdom is 20 (point buy 8 + helm 6 + periap + 6

Wisdom 20 will give me 5 modifier

Total will save is 5 + 2 iron will (helm) + 5 cloak + 2

Ben Zwycky
03-10-2014, 08:17 AM
Ok remove. Spell resistance. I will just buy periapt of wisdom +6
In total my wisdom is 20 (point buy 8 + helm 6 + periap + 6

Wisdom 20 will give me 5 modifier

Total will save is 5 + 2 iron will (helm) + 5 cloak + 2

The periapt and helm don't stack with each other, they are both enhancement bonuses. The helm should cost 51,000 gp in total (36,000 gp for the wisdom enhancement, 15,000 gp for the feat). One way to increase your saves would be an amulet that grants a luck or insight or sacred bonus to saves, that would stack with your existing bonuses (e.g. a +3 luck bonus to saves for 18,000 gp or +4 for 32,000 gp or +5 for 50,000 gp)

Ben Zwycky
03-10-2014, 09:31 AM
Spart, CV, Chrs? Any of you want to buy or split the cost of the divine wands of resist energy 30 (8250 gp) or barkskin +5 (18000 gp)? They will be party resources.

Pinoy
03-10-2014, 11:52 AM
Spart, CV, Chrs? Any of you want to buy or split the cost of the divine wands of resist energy 30 (8250 gp) or barkskin +5 (18000 gp)? They will be party resources.

With all the changes, i do not have extra gp.

Ben Zwycky
03-10-2014, 12:25 PM
Are you still buying the wand? That would be more than enough of a contribution. You could save a little by instead of the iron will and lightning reflexes feats, add a +2 insight bonus to saves on the helmet, that will boost all 3 saves by 2, and only cost 12,000 (with the 50% cost increase for a secondary ability), then you could also get an amulet of +2 luck bonus to saves for 8,000, (or +3 for 18,000 gp), boosting all three saves by another 2 (or 3).

Pinoy
03-10-2014, 01:50 PM
Are you still buying the wand? That would be more than enough of a contribution. You could save a little by instead of the iron will and lightning reflexes feats, add a +2 insight bonus to saves on the helmet, that will boost all 3 saves by 2, and only cost 12,000 (with the 50% cost increase for a secondary ability), then you could also get an amulet of +2 luck bonus to saves for 8,000, (or +3 for 18,000 gp), boosting all three saves by another 2 (or 3).

Ok i will put +2 insight bonus on my helm. I will buy it if no else will.

Pinoy
03-10-2014, 09:13 PM
Are you still buying the wand? That would be more than enough of a contribution. You could save a little by instead of the iron will and lightning reflexes feats, add a +2 insight bonus to saves on the helmet, that will boost all 3 saves by 2, and only cost 12,000 (with the 50% cost increase for a secondary ability), then you could also get an amulet of +2 luck bonus to saves for 8,000, (or +3 for 18,000 gp), boosting all three saves by another 2 (or 3).

Ok i was able to have helm +6 wisdom with +2 iron will save (51,000gp), glove of dexterity +6 with +2 reflex save (51,000gp), cloak resistance of +5 all saves with enlarge (30,400gp), amulet of sacred bonus +5 all saves (50,000gp).
did i get all the cost right? hope this will help me in all my save specially with my will save.

adjusted wisdom is 8+6 = 14 ( mod 2)
total will power is 20 = 2 (wisdom) + 2(iron will) + 5 (cloak) +5 (sacred) + 6 (base save)

Pinoy
03-10-2014, 09:33 PM
Updated equipments and cost

Celestial Armor +5 (32,400gp)
boots of Speed (12,000gp)
Glove of dex +6 and lightning reflex (51,000gp)
Helm of wisdom +6 and iron will (51,000gp)
Sun blade silvered and ghost touch+2/+4(72,515gp)
Sun blade adamantine +3/+5(74,335gp)
Amulet of Sacred Bonus +6 (50,000gp)
Shirt of Strenght +6 (36,000gp)
Belt of Dwarvenkind + 6 con (46,900gp)
Heavy Steel Shield animated +5 (49,170gp)
Ring of Protection +5 (50,000gp)
Master Long bow +1 (magical) (2,900gp)
30 normal arrows 3gp
10 silver tipped 20gp
10 cold iron 2gp
5 adamite 300gp
Wand of resistance 8,250gp
4 Potion CLW 200gp
2 antitoxin 100

Total equipment is P567,495.
Total GP allowed 580,000
Remaining is 12,505 (any additional enhancement)

**i can get ring of evasion [25,000gp] (i just don't know how will this help me), by dropping boots of speed
or can i add enhancement to my shirt a feat that will increase my strength?

is it better if instead of another sun blade silvered, i will get 2 short sword (1 with brilliant energy +1 [50,000gp plus cost of short sword]) and 1 with ghost touch and silvered + 3 [18,000gp plus cost of short sword] )
Thus i will have 3 short sword - 1 sunblade with ghost touch (always use), 1 short sword +1 with billiant energy (use for all other than undead, construct and the like.), 1 short sword with ghost touch and silvered (incorporeal, lycontrope, and the like.).

When i exchange sword (sheath 1 sword then draw the other sword), is it a standard action? If need be, i can change my combat reflexes feat with quick draw feat

Pinoy
03-11-2014, 04:30 AM
if i get ring of minor spell and put Bears Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.

When i activate the Bear endurance is my rage be longer?

Ben Zwycky
03-11-2014, 05:48 AM
if i get ring of minor spell and put Bears Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.

When i activate the Bear endurance is my rage be longer?

It's an enhancement bonus, you already have a better enhancement bonus to constitution from your belt, casting bear's endurance on yourself won't do anything.

Putting a weapon away is a move action, dropping it is a free action, drawing it with quick draw is a free action, without that feat, drawing a weapon when not moving is a move action, but as part of a move is a free action (i.e. you can draw one or two weapons while moving without it slowing you down or using up an additional action). Quick draw does not affect putting weapons away, it's only good for throwing lots of weapons in a round.

Pinoy
03-11-2014, 06:06 AM
so what do you think of this

is it better if instead of another sun blade silvered, i will get 2 short sword
(1 with brilliant energy +1 [50,000gp plus cost of short sword])
and 1 with ghost touch and silvered + 3 [18,000gp plus cost of short sword] )

Thus i will have 3 short sword - 1 sunblade with ghost touch (always use), 1 short sword +1 with billiant energy (use for all other than undead, construct and the like.), 1 short sword with ghost touch and silvered (incorporeal, lycontrope, and the like.).

Ben Zwycky
03-11-2014, 07:03 AM
That could work. It might be a good idea to have an adamantine or cold iron weapon to deal with creatures with that kind of damage reduction, as well as bludgeoning and piercing weapons for those vulnerable to those types of damage, hence my suggestion of a cold iron halberd (piercing and slashing) and an adamantine heavy flail (bludgeoning), both of which you'd use two-handed and both of which have some neat multi-purpose features to them (e.g. both can be used for trip attacks, the flail is good for disarming an opponent and is the only bludgeoning weapon with an extended critical range, a halberd can also be readied against a charging opponent for double damage) I'm having those two either plain masterwork or with simple +1 enhancement (relying on CV's character being able to cast bless weapon when required) and one silvered sun blade, one normal. (I'm not sure I'll be able to save enough money elsewhere to make the silvered one ghost touch)

Ben Zwycky
03-11-2014, 03:15 PM
Talking about the quick draw feat got me thinking:

Carrik, are you okay with the Brutal Throw Feat?




Brutal Throw
[General, Fighter]

Use your Strength modifier instead of your Dexterity modifier as a bonus to attack rolls with thrown
weapons.

Carrikature
03-11-2014, 05:47 PM
Talking about the quick draw feat got me thinking:

Carrik, are you okay with the Brutal Throw Feat?

No. :smile:


Honestly, it doesn't make any sense. You add strength to melee attacks because the challenge is in beating the armor not in hitting the opponent. Ranged/thrown weapons use dexterity because aim actually matters. The only time strength would matter is if your range is nearly point blank.

Pinoy
03-11-2014, 11:20 PM
Can the celestial armour be adamantine? also if i add fire resistance should i only add the cost +18,000gp only. Also for my shield if i add cold resistance should i add the cost of +18,000gp only

can a weapon, cold iron and frost?
also can a weapon be silvered, shock and flaming?

Ben Zwycky
03-12-2014, 06:32 AM
We're going to have a wand of energy resistance 30, so we'll be able to choose which energy to be highly resistant to before an encounter. Having energy-resistant armor of any type will only ever help against one type of energy but may be useful when we don't have time to prepare for an encounter. Adding that ability will just cost an extra 18,000, no matter what other enhancements it has.

Celestial armour has a high maximum dexterity allowance because of the material it's made out of, you can't change that without losing most of your dexterity bonus.

A weapon's material is completely independent of its magical enhancement. Both of those combinations are possible, if unconverntional

Pinoy
03-12-2014, 07:46 AM
We're going to have a wand of energy resistance 30, so we'll be able to choose which energy to be highly resistant to before an encounter. Having energy-resistant armor of any type will only ever help against one type of energy but may be useful when we don't have time to prepare for an encounter. Adding that ability will just cost an extra 18,000, no matter what other enhancements it has.

Celestial armour has a high maximum dexterity allowance because of the material it's made out of, you can't change that without losing most of your dexterity bonus.

A weapon's material is completely independent of its magical enhancement. Both of those combinations are possible, if unconverntional

Why is my animated shield cost 49,000 gp. If i add bane and bashing to it how much is the cost?

Ben Zwycky
03-12-2014, 08:33 AM
Your animated shield is effectively enhancement +7, +5 enhancement to shield bonus, animated is another +2 (7*7*1,000= 49,000) Add in the cost of the masterwork shield itself and it comes to 49,170 gp as a heavy steel shield, or 50,020 if it was made of mithral.

You can't add bane to a shield, only to a weapon.

It would be pointless to add bashing, since being animated allows you to use two much more effective weapons at once instead of the shield while the shield is still protecting you (we've already been through this, you'd need to take an extra 5 feats {Improved shield bash, weapon focus (shield bash), weapon specialisation (shield bash), greater weapon specialisation (shield bash), improved critical (shield bash) to be as effective with a shield bash as you are now without it, and it would still be arguably worse than a short sword), plus the fact that a bashing shield on average does only 1 more point of damage than a spiked shield (d8 vs d6).

Forget about shield bashing, we already rejected going down that route for a reason.

Ben Zwycky
03-12-2014, 01:38 PM
Carrik, could I go for a Hand of Sanctity (the same as a Hand of Glory but with a +2 sacred bonus to saves instead of the daylight once per day) for 11,900 gp? (I took the cost of daylight once per day {5400 gp} off the Hand of Glory, multiplied the remainder by 1.5 and added 8,000 gp for a +2 sacred bonus to saves)

Pinoy
03-13-2014, 07:25 AM
Updated equipments and cost

Celestial Armor +5 (32,400gp)
Glove of dex +6 and lightning reflex (51,000gp)
Helm of wisdom +6 and iron will (51,000gp)
Sun blade silvered, flaming, shock, +2/+4(98,515gp)
Sun blade cold iron, frost. +2+4 (74,345gp)
Amulet of Sacred Bonus +3 (9,000gp)
Shirt of Strenght +6 (36,000gp)
Belt of Dwarvenkind + 6 con (46,900gp)
Heavy Steel Shield animated +5 (49,170gp)
Ring of Protection +5 (50,000gp)
Ring of blinking (27,000gp)
Darkwood longbow +1magical (2,405gp)
Morning star adamatine ,bane construct (11,308gp)
30 normal arrows 3gp
10 silver tipped 20gp
10 cold iron 2gp
5 adamite 300gp
Wand of resistance 8,250gp


Are my cost correct?

Ben Zwycky
03-13-2014, 07:46 AM
Sacred bonus to saves costs 2,000 gp times the bonus squared, so that would be 18,000 gp instead of 9,000.

I'm not sure whether I miscalculated before, or missed an earlier mistake you made, but standard celestial armor +3 is 22,400 gp. 9,000 of that cost is due to enhancement, leaving 13,400 gp to add your enhancement cost to.

+5 enhancement cost is 25,000 gp, add that to 13,400 gives 38,400, not 32,400 gp.


I've settled on the final version of my dragon disciple and his equipment, taking a little inspiration from Pinoy's character and Pending approval from Carrik. He's now a ranger 6 / sorc 1 / barbarian 1 / fighter 2 / dragon disciple 10

Carrikature
03-13-2014, 07:58 AM
Carrik, could I go for a Hand of Sanctity (the same as a Hand of Glory but with a +2 sacred bonus to saves instead of the daylight once per day) for 11,900 gp? (I took the cost of daylight once per day {5400 gp} off the Hand of Glory, multiplied the remainder by 1.5 and added 8,000 gp for a +2 sacred bonus to saves)

That's fine.

Carrikature
03-13-2014, 07:59 AM
How is everyone coming on character creation?

Chaotic Void
03-13-2014, 08:05 AM
How is everyone coming on character creation?

I've got my L20 Gray Guard's sheet made, I'm just working on Magic Items. My L7 Cleric is still on the drawing board.

Ben Zwycky
03-13-2014, 08:07 AM
I'm done, pending approval.

High-Level character:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15880785/Eric%20Dragonhide%20lvl%2020.pdf

Low-level character:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/15880785/Bellamin%20Graveltoes%20lvl%207.pdf

Pinoy
03-13-2014, 08:21 AM
Sacred bonus to saves costs 2,000 gp times the bonus squared, so that would be 18,000 gp instead of 9,000.

I'm not sure whether I miscalculated before, or missed an earlier mistake you made, but standard celestial armor +3 is 22,400 gp. 9,000 of that cost is due to enhancement, leaving 13,400 gp to add your enhancement cost to.

+5 enhancement cost is 25,000 gp, add that to 13,400 gives 38,400, not 32,400 gp.


I've settled on the final version of my dragon disciple and his equipment, taking a little inspiration from Pinoy's character and Pending approval from Carrik. He's now a ranger 6 / sorc 1 / barbarian 1 / fighter 2 / dragon disciple 10

Noted i will drop sacred bonus to cover the 6,000gp for the celestial armor. I will save the 3,000gp for later.

Pinoy
03-13-2014, 08:30 AM
For my high level, character i am planning to have ranger 2, barbarian 8, fighter 10,
The level 2 ranger will cover for my two-fighting feat and the ranger can activate the wand. If this is the case, what is my favored class so that i will not incur amy penalty. By thi, i have the same feat


Or would it better ranger 6, barbarian 8, fighter 6. I think my feat will be the same.

Ben Zwycky
03-13-2014, 08:37 AM
I've got my L20 Gray Guard's sheet made, I'm just working on Magic Items. My L7 Cleric is still on the drawing board.

Need any help with that? I'll try to be less complex than with Pinoy.

I'm not familiar with Gray Guard, does it work that much differently to a paladin? Is there a breakdown of the differences available online?

Ben Zwycky
03-13-2014, 08:53 AM
For my high level, character i am planning to have ranger 2, barbarian 8, fighter 10,
The level 2 ranger will cover for my two-fighting feat and the ranger can activate the wand. If this is the case, what is my favored class so that i will not incur amy penalty. By thi, i have the same feat


Or would it better ranger 6, barbarian 8, fighter 6. I think my feat will be the same.
All your non-favoured classes have to be within one level of each other to avoid penalties, so 6/6/8 would work with barbarian as your favoured class, 2/8/10 would run into trouble. Ranger 6 Fighter 6 would mean the same feats you have now plus track, because it would give you two-weapon fighting, endurance and improved two-weapon fighting instead of three fighter feats. It'd also give you some limited spellcasting (so you could use the wand, yes, plus you get 2 ranger level 1 spells of your choice per day, but you have to choose which two at the start of the day), an animal companion and two favoured enemies to choose from.

Chaotic Void
03-13-2014, 09:15 AM
Need any help with that? I'll try to be less complex than with Pinoy.

I'm not familiar with Gray Guard, does it work that much differently to a paladin? Is there a breakdown of the differences available online?

Basically, it's a Prestige Class (I'm going Paladin 10/Gray Guard 10) that lets my Character act outside the restrictions of the Paladin's Code ONLY for the Greater Good (Though, if he's found to have grossly abused said ability, whether via council or Deity, he cannot seek atonement). His 'Smite Evil' also becomes Justice Blade (which, at higher levels, lets him add the bonus damage to ANY target he hits, not just Evil Ones). He can also use Lay on Hands to attack enemies (though non-evil characters get a Will Save to halve the damage).

That list you provided earlier was quite sufficient for magic items. Not sure about Metamagic Rods, though. I might go with Maximize just to make sure his heals count, but at the same time, a Wand of Cure Critical Wounds wouldn't hurt either. :grin:

Ben Zwycky
03-13-2014, 11:32 AM
Basically, it's a Prestige Class (I'm going Paladin 10/Gray Guard 10) that lets my Character act outside the restrictions of the Paladin's Code ONLY for the Greater Good (Though, if he's found to have grossly abused said ability, whether via council or Deity, he cannot seek atonement). His 'Smite Evil' also becomes Justice Blade (which, at higher levels, lets him add the bonus damage to ANY target he hits, not just Evil Ones). He can also use Lay on Hands to attack enemies (though non-evil characters get a Will Save to halve the damage).

That list you provided earlier was quite sufficient for magic items. Not sure about Metamagic Rods, though. I might go with Maximize just to make sure his heals count, but at the same time, a Wand of Cure Critical Wounds wouldn't hurt either. :grin:

That it wouldn't. We'd probably need some diamond dust for restoration, if you can cast that as a Gray Guard. How about a phylactery of undead turning, or is turning undead not a priority?

Spartacus
03-13-2014, 11:36 AM
That it wouldn't. We'd probably need some diamond dust for restoration, if you can cast that as a Gray Guard. How about a phylactery of undead turning, or is turning undead not a priority?

That depends on what quests we take.

Ben Zwycky
03-13-2014, 11:57 AM
I suppose so, but myself and Pinoy have weapons that do double damage against undead, so it's not unrealistic that we'd choose that kind of mission.

Spartacus
03-13-2014, 12:00 PM
So why Turn them when you can easily turn them to dust?

Ben Zwycky
03-13-2014, 12:11 PM
True enough, turning not a priority then. Are your characters all ready then, Spart?

Pinoy
03-13-2014, 09:27 PM
if i go ranger 6/barbarian 8/fighter 6 ( i have to have atleast 13 int to be able to have have the whirlwind attack.

also i will not have the greater focus specialisation. (but this is ok). creating a character is ... i thought it is easy. :wink:

Also if my wisdom is 8 (-1), can i still activate the wand?

Spartacus
03-13-2014, 09:41 PM
if i go ranger 6/barbarian 8/fighter 6 ( i have to have atleast 13 int to be able to have have the whirlwind attack.

also i will not have the greater focus specialisation. (but this is ok). creating a character is ... i thought it is easy. :wink:

Creating a level 1 character is easy. Creating a level 20 is complex because there are so many more options.

Pinoy
03-13-2014, 09:53 PM
can i still activate a wand even though my wisdom is 8

Pinoy
03-13-2014, 10:03 PM
Heavy Steel Shield +4 aninated with low fortification [49,170gp], is this correct?

Ben Zwycky
03-14-2014, 12:39 AM
Your wisdom is not 8, it's 14, because the enhancement bonus from the helmet is not temporary, it's continuous for as long as you are wearing it (which you can all the time). I didn't notice the int requirement for whirlwind attack, you could add a 2-point intelligence enhancement to your helmet for 6,000 gp [Can you add a 1-point enhancement bonus to an ability score? If so, it would only cost 1,500 gp]. As for Greater Weapon Specialization, I had noticed the 12th-level fighter requirement and forgot about it, sorry. You could get Greater Weapon Focus instead, or Power Attack.

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 01:00 AM
Your wisdom is not 8, it's 14, because the enhancement bonus from the helmet is not temporary, it's continuous for as long as you are wearing it (which you can all the time). I didn't notice the int requirement for whirlwind attack, you could add a 2-point intelligence enhancement to your helmet for 6,000 gp [Can you add a 1-point enhancement bonus to an ability score? If so, it would only cost 1,500 gp]. As for Greater Weapon Specialization, I had noticed the 12th-level fighter requirement and forgot about it, sorry. You could get Greater Weapon Focus instead, or Power Attack.

If i could have 1 1-point enhancement that would be good for i still extra 3,000gp, otherwise, i have to drop the efficient quiver and just make my bow masterwork instead of magical.

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 01:18 AM
can i put fortification in a shield?

Ben Zwycky
03-14-2014, 02:19 AM
It specifically says you can

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#fortification

But I thought you didn't want to go the fortification route because of your improved uncanny dodge?

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 02:39 AM
It specifically says you can

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm#fortification

But I thought you didn't want to go the fortification route because of your improved uncanny dodge?

That is why it is only low fortification.

I was thinking about this when i put the fortification,

A barbarian dedicated to the boar totem does not gain the standard fast movement, uncanny dodge, trap sense, and improved uncanny dodge barbarian class features, and instead gains the following abilities.

When raging, a 1st-level boar-totem barbarian is treated as having the Diehard feat, even if he doesn't meet the normal prerequisites.
At 3rd level and higher, a boar-totem barbarian's rage lasts for 2 rounds longer than normal.
Beginning at 7th level, a boar-totem barbarian's damage reduction is 1 point higher than the normal value. Thus, at 7th level, a boar-totem barbarian's damage reduction is 2/-, and it rises by 1 point every three levels thereafter.

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 02:41 AM
Your wisdom is not 8, it's 14, because the enhancement bonus from the helmet is not temporary, it's continuous for as long as you are wearing it (which you can all the time). I didn't notice the int requirement for whirlwind attack, you could add a 2-point intelligence enhancement to your helmet for 6,000 gp [Can you add a 1-point enhancement bonus to an ability score? If so, it would only cost 1,500 gp]. As for Greater Weapon Specialization, I had noticed the 12th-level fighter requirement and forgot about it, sorry. You could get Greater Weapon Focus instead, or Power Attack.

Anyway, can i have a 1-point enhancement bonus to ability?

Ben Zwycky
03-14-2014, 02:57 AM
Anyway, can i have a 1-point enhancement bonus to ability?

That's up to Carrik.

As for the boar totem barbarian, I think you'd be worse off going that route, you lose a lot of abilities just to gain a small extension to rage and 1 extra damage reduction. Diehard isn't a bad feat, but it's much less useful if it will only last during a rage (which you can only use 3 times a day).

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 02:59 AM
That's up to Carrik.

As for the boar totem barbarian, I think you'd be worse off going that route, you lose a lot of abilities just to gain a small extension to rage and 1 extra damage reduction. Diehard isn't a bad feat, but it's much less useful if it will only last during a rage (which you can only use 3 times a day).

yep not going there.

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 03:00 AM
what is better route. fighter or barbarian?

Ben Zwycky
03-14-2014, 03:26 AM
Barbarian is better I think, fighter is good for getting a couple of extra feats. Having said that, I think ranger 6/fighter 6/ Barbarian 8 is a very good balance. Either that or go full barbarian 20 for the mighty rage and tireless rage (and the option of moving straight on to an epic barbarian if we level up) or ranger 6 barbarian 14 to get indomitable will.

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 06:50 AM
Barbarian is better I think, fighter is good for getting a couple of extra feats. Having said that, I think ranger 6/fighter 6/ Barbarian 8 is a very good balance. Either that or go full barbarian 20 for the mighty rage and tireless rage (and the option of moving straight on to an epic barbarian if we level up) or ranger 6 barbarian 14 to get indomitable will.

Can i activate the wand if I am only lvl 1 barbarian.

Carrikature
03-14-2014, 06:54 AM
That's up to Carrik.

As for the boar totem barbarian, I think you'd be worse off going that route, you lose a lot of abilities just to gain a small extension to rage and 1 extra damage reduction. Diehard isn't a bad feat, but it's much less useful if it will only last during a rage (which you can only use 3 times a day).

The +1 bonus is fine. Don't use bear totem.



Barbarian is better I think, fighter is good for getting a couple of extra feats. Having said that, I think ranger 6/fighter 6/ Barbarian 8 is a very good balance. Either that or go full barbarian 20 for the mighty rage and tireless rage (and the option of moving straight on to an epic barbarian if we level up) or ranger 6 barbarian 14 to get indomitable will.

You've both done a ton of work, but a straight barbarian (or anything) might not be a bad idea for a first time character. That's up to Pinoy, of course. There's nothing wrong with multiclassing. :shrug:

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 07:24 AM
Maybe a straight fighter

Ben Zwycky
03-14-2014, 07:26 AM
Yep, a straight barbarian would be simpler for you to manage (a straight fighter simplest of all). You don't need to be able to use the wand, since you're buying it for the party (and can easily lend it to someone else or ask them to carry it for you)

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 07:39 AM
Ok straight fighter but have to put a fortification to my shield. Can i havemultiple iron will feat.:teeth:

Ben Zwycky
03-14-2014, 07:56 AM
Having a feat multiple times doesn't help you unless the feat description specifically says so.

You could add an insight bonus to saves on one item, a luck bonus on saves to another and a sacred bonus to saves on a third, these different types stack with each other. I have a +5 resistance bonus to saves on my cloak, +2 sacred on my necklace, +2 insight on my helmet and +1 luck on my gloves, all of which are separate types of bonuses so stack with each other, giving an overall +10 to saves.

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 08:03 AM
My last character, barbarian 2/ fighter 16/ shadowdancer 2.

Carrikature
03-14-2014, 08:10 AM
Pinoy, before we start over with a new set of classes, it might be better to decide what role you want to have in the party. You've been making melee type characters (which is perfectly fine), but do you have a particular fighting style that you'd like to do? It's easier to tailor items/feats/etc when you have a goal in mind. It also helps eliminate some of the back and forth because you have something specific to optimize towards.

There's nothing wrong with the ranger/fighter/barbarian you've been making, either, unless you just don't like its result. :smile:

Ben Zwycky
03-14-2014, 08:11 AM
The thing I'm doing with my character to counteract sneak attacks is to have an eversmoking bottle and the blind-fight feat to help him cope with being unable to see. (My character is ideally suited to this combination, because as a half-dragon he also has 60' blindsense, something no spell or magic item can give you.) Rogues can't sneak attack you when they can't see you clearly (when you have concealment), so that would negate that possibility. I'm just telling you this so you might consider taking blind-fight as well, it'll help you deal with invisible enemies or fight better whenever I decide to use my eversmoking bottle.

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 08:17 AM
My goal is to be a melee type who uses the two sunblades when fighting.That is why i wanted fighter so that i can have the grater weapon focus and critical

In addition, if we will fight a construct i have a adamantine moningstar bane construct. I wanted it to have greater weapon focus and critical.

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 08:19 AM
My aim also is to have the epic perfect two weapon fighting in the far future. I want to dispatch all i face as soon as possible.

Ben Zwycky
03-14-2014, 08:35 AM
There are only three feats that you can't get unless you have a certain number of fighter levels: Weapon specialization (fighter level 4), Greater Weapon Focus (fighter level 8), and Greater Weapon Specialisation (fighter level 12). You don't need to be a fighter at all to have improved critical.

Whatever class you choose, you'd be on the right track for perfect two-weapon fighting once you reach level 24 (assuming you get that far), since you're only one short of the dexterity requirement, or you could get it at level 22 if you go for pure fighter then epic fighter and improve your gloves of dex to +8 or higher.

Carrikature
03-14-2014, 08:37 AM
Ben can you join us in Shoutbox, please. :)

Pinoy
03-14-2014, 11:05 AM
Final answer 12 barb / 8 fighter. Class locked

Pinoy
03-15-2014, 04:45 AM
Here is my final Level 20 character sheet.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ldw0ds554yaiz72/Farris.xls

Ben Zwycky
03-15-2014, 05:17 AM
Have you included the animated ability (an extra +2 bonus) on the shield? Otherwise you can't use it while wielding two weapons at once. This would also make it more expensive to have the fortification on the shield than on the armor (the difference between +5 and +6 (11,000 gp) is less than the difference between +6 and +7 (13,000 gp))

Pinoy
03-15-2014, 06:06 AM
i did that is why i make it +4 animated with low fortification instead of +5 animated. if it is too expensive to put then i have to drop fortification. or lower the +4 to +3?

here is for lvl 7 https://www.dropbox.com/s/uftswl2x4w32sjj/Amal.xls

Ben Zwycky
03-15-2014, 07:20 AM
OK, as long as it's included, I just didn't see it noted in the character sheet, the shield is described as Adamantine and low fortification. Maybe you meant Animated instead of Adamantine?

Pinoy
03-15-2014, 07:33 AM
OK, as long as it's included, I just didn't see it noted in the character sheet, the shield is described as Adamantine and low fortification. Maybe you meant Animated instead of Adamantine?

it is adamantine heavy shield that is animated with low fortification. wait maybe i counted wrong?

adamatine +1
low for tification +1
animated +2
addition enhancement +3

i translated this into +4 (+1 adamantine and +3 enhancement) animated with low fortification

Ben Zwycky
03-15-2014, 09:52 AM
adamantine is not an enhancement, it's a material and just a fixed extra cost of 2,000 gp

Ben Zwycky
03-15-2014, 02:13 PM
So, Spart, CV, Chrs, you all ready with your characters now?

Spartacus
03-15-2014, 02:17 PM
I'm not, and I'm pretty sure chrs has been too busy. Even if we were all ready, I think Carrik has a lot on his plate, too, so we'd have to wait for him.

At this rate, we won't get started until summer break :outtie:

Ben Zwycky
03-15-2014, 02:28 PM
If anyone needs any help, I'm happy to.

Carrikature
03-15-2014, 06:27 PM
I'm not, and I'm pretty sure chrs has been too busy. Even if we were all ready, I think Carrik has a lot on his plate, too, so we'd have to wait for him.

At this rate, we won't get started until summer break :outtie:

It won't be that long...

Pinoy
03-16-2014, 12:32 AM
Level 7 https://www.dropbox.com/s/uftswl2x4w32sjj/Amal.xls

I got arcane archer, if my long bow composite has +1str. Total damage of the arrow are +2 (+1 str and +1 enhancement)

Ben Zwycky
03-16-2014, 07:29 AM
You have to have base attack bonus of +6 and the ability to cast first level spells before you can take a level in Arcane Archer. In other words, you have to have at least 7 levels in other classes before you can start being an Arcane Archer, so it's not possible at level 7, level 8 is the earliest you can start.