Way too much Self-Esteem

[Spiritus Naturae]

The following is a synopsis of some observations I posted on my blog back in September. Not a very popular position but one that I believe is much closer to reality than the majority of ideas about 'self-esteem' or the lack thereof:

I work at a residential treatment facility for chemically dependent adolescents. In layman's terms, a rehab for teenage alcoholics and drug addicts. At this facility we have anywhere from 12-20 teenage boys and girls ranging from 13-17 years of age. It is co-ed so the boys and girls work together within the community which is itself based on the 12 steps of AA (Alcoholics Anonymous) and what is known in the recovery community as a 'Therapeutic Model". Many of you have heard of the term, "self-esteem". More often than not, it has been used to speak of a person with 'low self-esteem'. I hear a lot about the kids we deal with as having the problem of suffering from 'low self -esteem'. I have a problem buying this notion, mainly from viewing the individual residents I have worked with over the years and my own past history in recovery from drugs and alcohol.

I do admit that it is possible for a person to have low self-esteem as I have seen this in the arena in which I work. However, I am of the opinion, that for the greater number of the adolescents I work with their view of themselves is so grossly overblown that they do indeed have entirely too much self-esteem. For many of these teens, the only person that they care about is themselves. So much so that it is to the negation of all others around them, whether family or friends. Compassionless and self-serving are not exaggerations when describing a great many of them. For this reason, it is difficult for them to function in society. Authority figures have no right to, "tell them what to do". If they want something, they take it. They have an extreme sense of entitlement and believe that they should always get what they want, be catered to and feel good as much as possible. Where did they get this? Obviously, from family, whether it be mom and dad, brothers and sisters, extended family and so forth. It is almost as if they grow up unchecked, that is without direction or guidance from within the family structure. The parenting or guidance they do recieve is from friends or the media.

My position is extremely unpopular within the field I work. The more popular take on the matter is that they exhibit these behaviours precisely because they have low self-esteem. The theory is "if I don't care about my self then how can I care about anyone else". I think that's the wrong way to look at it. It is in actuality, "If I care only about myself then how can I care about anyone else". The young people I deal with only want to do things that will benefit them directly. If they want to engage in a behaviour that causes hardship for other members of the community they are in, so be it. So long as they get the gratification they seek. Part of this stems from the addict mentality, but the greater part of it is this notion that life is supposed to be all, "fun and games". For them, hardship is not necessary to becoming a whole and complete person. Struggles, disappointments are all cast aside for the sake of the greater good, which in this instance is the 'Holy Grail of high self-esteem'.

Until we understand that the basic drive of the natural man is his own pleasure, satisfaction and preservation; balance that with a healthy idea of what it is to be a compassionate part of a greater whole, this high self esteem notion will only foster the growth of more and more narcissistic-borderline personalities.

The future of America...God help us.

[Pilgrim]

From a diagnostic point of view, might you be confusing confidence with esteem? Or even ego or selfishness, with esteem? These things are not synonimus after all.

On the other hand, what you say make a lot of sense to me. I do a fair amount of family counseling and I often see this over blown sense of self in teens. It seems to go right along with kids who are border line, or actually, conduct disorder.

[Spiritus Naturae]

From a diagnostic point of view, might you be confusing confidence with esteem? Or even ego or selfishness, with esteem? These things are not synonimus after all.

On the other hand, what you say make a lot of sense to me. I do a fair amount of family counseling and I often see this over blown sense of self in teens. It seems to go right along with kids who are border line, or actually, conduct disorder.

I think self-esteem, at least in its more 'pop-culture/Dr.Phil' incarnation, has a lot to do with one's viewing of self in relation to others. Certainly ego can influence one's self-esteem in a negative way, if left to run riot.

Here's another post I did on this 'self-esteem' "thang"! Keep in mind now, I am not a psychologist. Just someone who has worked in this field/environment for the past 8 years. These are merely observations and theory.

Way too much Self-Esteem (continued)

I've made another observation in this whole 'esteem' conundrum in light of a recent situation involving a certain young man at my place of employment. Based on this I have come to a conclusion; that even that most desparate of actions, suicide, is a result of too much 'self-esteem'. For clarification the young man in question did not kill himself but voiced a great many threats to that end during his brief stay at our facility. This individual would, when faced with confrontations on his behaviour, discipline for his negative actions or denial of certain priviledges because of his negative choices, resort to threats of ending his own life. Now you may be saying, "how on earth is that an example of too much self-esteem?". At first glance suicide seems the antithesis of 'high self-esteem' but upon closer observation it is in reality the utmost in selfishness and self-image and self-centered thinking run amok.

Suicide's do not take the final outcome of their actions into account. The effects upon family, friends, the individuals who may find them, attempt to resuscitate them, etc are not contemplated. The one and only individual of importance in the equation is themselves. Thus they have regarded themselves in a disjointed and unrealistic fashion by placing 'self' as the 'absolute' or the pinnacle of existence. It is almost as if they reached a point of thinking, "I am too important/valuable/good to be treated like this." and thus they come up with an ultimate solution: remove themselves from the hardship, discomfort and struggle of this life. For this young man, such was the case. His history was rife with instances of retreating to the threat and 2 attempts at commiting suicide rather than change or look outside of himself. Life is itself struggle. Without struggle, hardship and adversity one grows up in a 'vaccuum' of sorts and is not allowed the opportunity to be a fully realized, well-rounded person. This adolescent was a prime example of the maladaptive behaviour one finds themselves taking part in to preserve 'high self-esteem'.

The ultimate failure of 'high self-esteem' is the incorrect foundation from which it starts, that is the idea that individuals do not view themselves with the right amount of self-esteem. In reality, that is just not true. It is an absolute self-absorption that leads to such negative behaviours. I was reading a frightening study on sociopathy online here last week that I can't find the link to now, but it essentially stated that 4% of the population of the U.S. are sociopaths. Essentially, these are people without conscience, lacking remorse and without empathy for their fellows. That is, indeed, a troubling statistic but not surprising. When I find the article I will be sure and post it. Sociopaths and narcissists would be the apex of 'high self-esteem', it would seem.

From my Christian perspective, a 'healthy' individual is one who esteems others of a higher regard than themselves. Love for others leads one far and away from the spiritual poison of self-love and self-centeredness and puts us into a proper understanding of our role in the greater scheme of life. Self-denial as well allows us to truly empathize, relate to and be of real benefit to our communities and individuals, whether family or otherwise. All of this goes against the grain of what is thought of as normal in contemporary society as the natural inclinations of the heart are ultimately self-serving and self-absorbed. Human beings are simply another species of animal and therefore we should not, "guilt ourselves to death over natural inclinations", is the clarion call of today. As a Christian, I must deny natural inclinations, think of my fellow man before myself and serve the Creator rather than my own being. That is right-minded thinking.

[zorathruster]

The human psyche forces us to model both other people and ourselves in our brains. This modeling process gives us both an impression of other people as well as an impression of ourselves. Our mental impression of our own self is our "self-image". We have an evolutionary motivation to try and push a very high self image which gives us the capability to increase our procreation capability. In our history, those who promoted their own self interest had better breeding success and therefore the majority of humans today have that as part of their psyche. "Too much self esteem" is not so much a negative aspect because our "high" self esteem has met with high procreation success.

It is not incorrect to have self esteem or high self esteem. It is a manifestation of the process whereby we became what we humans are. There are lots of sub-optimal aspects of our biology and our psyches which do not necessarily add to what we are as humans. Optimally we would have an amount which makes us attractive as a mate, keeps us from killing ourselves in the process, and keeps us focused on the process of raising children into the next generation.

Socially, it is optimal to have a rotation of "esteem" whereby each individual is allowed to assert their own capability and be recognized for that capability. They will achieve the recognition they seek and will feel as if they are part of the overall group as a contributor.

Realistically, some people have low self esteem where they are unable to gain the level of recognition from the group that they feel essential to them fitting into the group. If they constantly are relegated to sub-optimal status, they never achieve a level that give them enough personal recognition and usually when immature (teenager for example), and this is a major focus of their development and desire, they can react negatively and become harmful to themselves.

[kendal]

I truly believe that suicide is not an act of selfishness but more likely an act of despair and helplessness. They person feels there is no hope left for them and they do not want to feel pain anymore. they believe their pain will go away. It may appear very selfish because of the pain it causes the families and loved ones but it is a demon spirit that causes the persons who commit suicide to give up on life. The person feels they cannot cope,and that life is too hard,painful and very frightening.

Coping skills is what many of them lack,and they were not taught in a caring way how to deal with their fears. Fear overwhelms them and when they feel pain,they deeply feel it. The lack of a good support group and support from family play into it. many of us like to think we are supportive and caring,yet most of us are too busy to notice the things that another person is feeling and many times we don't see anything until the danger is already there and it's too late or almost too late when the mental damage is done and the person feels defeated.
Suicide is an act of a person who cannot cope and has lost his/her strength to handle life. They may also not have been taught how to handle first loves or that pain like a broken heart will actually heal and they will smile again. To someone who has not been shown or taught in some way that emotions change with time,and that the heart can and does heal itself,they may be overwhelmed by their emotions and the emotions of their peers,family,ect.....
Self hatred also may come into play with suicide.
It most likely does not occur to the suicidal person that they are hurting other people when they take their lives,they have seen death before in their families,and they know that people move on in most cases,so they probably do not think of the pain they will cause. They may feel instead that they won't be missed much because they feel that everyone will be better off without them.
Compassion is needed here when dealing with individuals thinking of killing themselves.I cannot call them selfish nor can I call them giving and caring.
It's hopelessness,despair,and lack of coping skills in my opinion.

[kendal]

I do agree however,that a great majority of teenagers are way too selfish and lacking in discipline,yet how can parents discipline today when they will be accused of child abuse?
If a child is already having sex then they can handle a butt whippin' in my opion!
Who dies from a good old fashioned whippin'? Aid's and other STD's,ect.... have and do kill!!!

[jason]

An observation Greg Koukl made a while ago on his radio program about sociopaths and relativism might be apt to toss in here.

He noted that the best and most advanced moral relativist is in fact the sociopath. They are the person most in touch with their "values" and most free from the constraints of "external" and "illusory" morality.

It should be no surprise that sociopaths are relativly common in a society which is geared to breed them.

Another observation I remember reading somewhere, was an observation about bullies and self-esteeem. The conventional wisdom is that bullies have low self-esteem, but some research turned this idea on its head, when it was discovered that bullies have extremely high self-esteem but that it is fragile and they get aggressive when it is challenged.

I guess SN's observation just fits in with yet more evidence that western culture has gone insane as a whole. Certianly the elites that trumpet their nonsense have.

Jason

[Ryokan]

An observation Greg Koukl made a while ago on his radio program about sociopaths and relativism might be apt to toss in here.

He noted that the best and most advanced moral relativist is in fact the sociopath. They are the person most in touch with their "values" and most free from the constraints of "external" and "illusory" morality.

It should be no surprise that sociopaths are relativly common in a society which is geared to breed them.

Another observation I remember reading somewhere, was an observation about bullies and self-esteeem. The conventional wisdom is that bullies have low self-esteem, but some research turned this idea on its head, when it was discovered that bullies have extremely high self-esteem but that it is fragile and they get aggressive when it is challenged.

I guess SN's observation just fits in with yet more evidence that western culture has gone insane as a whole. Certianly the elites that trumpet their nonsense have.

Jason
You know, murder and crime rates are down dramatically over the last 20 years, much less the last 1000 or so. And The US is one of the least secular modern states, but it is the one with one of the higher instances of mental health problems. SO I don't think "moral relativism" is to blame. While religion does not occupy the same place it once did in the public square, it is more important how it stands in private, and the overwhelming majority of Americans are religious.

[jason]

You know, murder and crime rates are down dramatically over the last 20 years, much less the last 1000 or so.
Up to a point. That figure obviously leaves out the 40 million children sacrificed to the altar of choice.

And The US is one of the least secular modern states, but it is the one with one of the higher instances of mental health problems.
I'm not sure that is so exactly (it probably depends how you count them, given the number of places that celbrate mental illness as "diveristy") and I think a large part of the problem stems from a deep cognitive dissonace in the US. Unlike some other places the US is not as far from its roots and traditions as other places. Although it is places the most far from such traditions that are likely the most violent and dangerous. Possibly also the most mentally diseased.

Jason

[Ryokan]

Up to a point. That figure obviously leaves out the 40 million children sacrificed to the altar of choice. And the millions sacrificed to poverty or unreasonable law induced infanticide.


I'm not sure that is so exactly (it probably depends how you count them, given the number of places that celbrate mental illness as "diveristy") and I think a large part of the problem stems from a deep cognitive dissonace in the US. Unlike some other places the US is not as far from its roots and traditions as other places. Although it is places the most far from such traditions that are likely the most violent and dangerous. Possibly also the most mentally diseased.

JasonI was speaking primarilly to violent mental illness. Mental illness, for the most part, I think is a physical and or emotional, not spiritual thing. Ted Bundy became who he was not because of reletavism, but poor parenting. Guys like Bill Clinton are the ones who have spiritual problems. People who chop up people and pack them away in the basement, or kill indiscriminately, have something else going on entirely.

[Meh_Gerbil]

I'm reading a book on teenagers right now and it claims that narcissism is a normal and healthy stage in their development. It would be natural for someone learning to be his or her own person.

Instead of fighting narcissism you might be better off learning how to handle it in a way that helps them through it.

[Ryokan]

I'm reading a book on teenagers right now and it claims that narcissism is a normal and healthy stage in their development. It would be natural for someone learning to be his or her own person.

Instead of fighting narcissism you might be better off learning how to handle it in a way that helps them through it.
I think that goes for all teens.