Just call me a grouch.

[Raptor]

I found this entry on the "Freethinking Faith" blog.

http://freethinkingfaith.blogspot.com/2005/11/religious-exhibitionism.html

I like the section "Call me a grouch".

Also high on my list is the one who telegraphs to everybody what God told her today. "The Lord told me this ... the Lord laid this on my heart ... the Lord spoke today when I was in prayer ..." Not that I'm against the idea of personal revelation. (If God imparts a prophetic message, it should be shared.) And not that I'm against legitimate discussions of spiritual leading. But when someone prattles indiscriminately about the speaking terms that she and God are on, it smacks of spiritual exhibitionism. The kind Jesus warned us about so explicitly.

What do you think? Is he right, or is this just a case of pot meet kettle?

[Darth Executor]

I think the kind of people who think God tells them what clothes to wear every day have bigger issues than exhibitionism.

[Xmansmommy]

Hey raps! :hi: I have a few thoughts about the blog entry you linked and hope you don't mind me sharing them.

While it's true that few Christians pray aloud on the street corner, many violate the ban on ostentatious religion in more subtle ways. And some not-so-subtle.

You aint kidding!

Take, for instance, the person who peppers her speech with religious cliches to position and brand herself as a spiritual superstar (especially among her fellow believers).

Who hasn't experienced this? :argh:

..."Can you believe I was really that bad when you see how marvelous I am now?"

You don't know how many people I've encountered that express their personal testimony this way. It's almost as if they are proud of how bad they were. I don't get it. Needless to say, some of the very ones who have been so guilty of this type of testimony bearing, I've witnessed backslidding to a point worse then they were to begin with. Don't get me wrong, I know we all stumble and struggle to overcome. But it's kinda hard to take someone serious when they brag about their former life. And just to clarify, I don't mean those that are simply telling the things God has done or how they have been delivered from "such and such," but rather those that have that "can you top that?" attitude.

Also high on my list is the one who telegraphs to everybody what God told her today. "The Lord told me this ... the Lord laid this on my heart ... the Lord spoke today when I was in prayer ..."

Oh man, I hear ya! In my experience it's quite usually bad news when I hear these types of declarations. It's often a call for the hearer to heed the warnings of the speaker to repent of perceieved false beliefs. Interesting. :doh:

A truly humble Christian will speak of his or her faith, but will do so in with a sweetness, grace and modesty that is anything but ostentatious.

Jesus-like speech uplifts. It is for the betterment of others. The demeanor of such a person fosters approachableness. He doesn't make you feel as if you ought to be crawling up to touch the hem of his garment.

The world is more apt to listen when such people speak.

Amen and amen! I couldn't have said it better.

Just call me grouch aka Xmansmommy :wink:

[jimmybob479]

"The Lord told me this ... the Lord laid this on my heart ... the Lord spoke today when I was in prayer ..."

Haha so true! This often bothers me when people say this because sometimes you wonder if he really did.....or if the person is just blowing steam off. My parents are missionaries and my mom will stay things like "Today God woke me up and told me......" and it sometimes is the strangest things. I sometimes wonder because she'll say one thing then a week later claim God told her something differently. Specifically, where to retire it. I tend to think its more of herself trying to figure out where to spend her last years on earth than God waking her up changing his mind week after week. I think a lot of the reason it bothers me is God's never woken me up and told me something like I need to be wash the car.

[Hitch]

A realative made a big deal of God's 'leading' him to move to Texas recently.
A shotrt time later all the property in his name in California was attached with leins.

A few months later God told me,,,er I heard on a nationally broadcast financial radio program that it is almost impossible to collect bad debts from anyone in Texas.

As a lifelong Pentecostal I've hear just about any and all things ascribed to 'personal revelation'. I cant imagine there's a subject left untouched by the spiritual giants but I havent come across one much better than the pair of little old ladies from southern Oregon who believed and proclaimed to the church God had chosen them as the Two Witnesses.

H

[wraizyr]

Heh, I like William Mackinnon's interpretation on the subject:




I feel led…..
Translation: “I want to”, or “I have an idea”

BI: 1

Note: The reason for this particular phrase has to do with the idea that whatever we do should be for God, and not something we thought up on our own. It places God’s stamp of approval on the subject in question and therefore is beyond dispute or criticism.

http://www.internetmonk.com/articles/S/speaking.html



(http://www.internetmonk.com/articles/S/speaking.html)

[!Fluffy!]

God told me not to read this thread.

:lol:

[!Fluffy!]

Haha so true! This often bothers me when people say this because sometimes you wonder if he really did.....or if the person is just blowing steam off. My parents are missionaries and my mom will stay things like "Today God woke me up and told me......" and it sometimes is the strangest things. I sometimes wonder because she'll say one thing then a week later claim God told her something differently. Specifically, where to retire it. I tend to think its more of herself trying to figure out where to spend her last years on earth than God waking her up changing his mind week after week. I think a lot of the reason it bothers me is God's never woken me up and told me something like I need to be wash the car.

Well, JB I couldn't help it, just had to read your post anyway.
:lol:
I find this God-woke-me-up-and-told-me-stuff vaguely disturbing, though.

As for me, there are times when I WANT God to show me what to do, because the path may not clearly be marked "Go Here" or "this way leads to evil" or whatever. Knowing there is a "communication gap" I just tell Him Lord, you know how hard of hearing I am. Could you please just close every door but one so I know where you want me to go? Which in itself may even be silly, knowing that He knows everything already and has promised to guide and protect me. But since we are told to pray, I do. Never had the experience of God showing up telling me what to do though.

I just figure, the Bible is pretty clear when it comes to right and wrong. It's just those other choices that are tough sometimes.

Do you ever feel like calling her on it when it looks like "God changes His mind"? Do you ever think about becoming a missionary too? What denomination? Are your parents missionaries in a foreign country?

Just curious.

[norwegen]

God told me not to read this thread.

:lol:He told me that He'll forgive you for doing so.

:lol:

[James Peter]

There is a fine line here. A very fine line. On one hand I believe that we were made to have that sort of intimacy with the Father - hearing his voice shouldn't be rare but should be 'normal'. on the other hand there are so many people who make such claims when clearly they are just trying to justify their own desires. How can you tell the difference? Discernment. There is a reason I rate it as the most useful spiritual gift - it really is incredibly useful.

People shouldn't be afraid to retort 'Really? Are you sure?' just because somebody claims to be 'led'. On the other hand be careful of jealousy. My personal policy is to never go beyond "Really? That seems a little strange to me... Are you sure?" without direct revelation that contradicts what is being claimed. If God tells me something that contradicts what they claim to be being told or if I can 'feel' something not-so-nice at work then I'll call it as it is. Otherwise I'll simply question and then watch silently, praying, unless told to do otherwise.

By now you might have realised that I'm a little bit of a Charimatic :wink:. Has God ever told me what to wear? I don't think so, but we have chatted about trivial stuff. And he has told me that blue looks good on me when I wasn't sure what to wear one day... Pray constantly and expect to hear answers :smile:

"My sheep will know my voice"

"The Father has made all things known to me and I will declare them to you through the Spirit"

And so forth... Christians should experience God, not just read about Him.

[norwegen]

By now you might have realised that I'm a little bit of a Charimatic :wink:. Has God ever told me what to wear? I don't think so, but we have chatted about trivial stuff. And he has told me that blue looks good on me when I wasn't sure what to wear one day... Pray constantly and expect to hear answers :smile:When you chat with God, do you literally hear His voice? I've heard other people make this claim (one of whom wasn't even Charismatic, believe it or not). I think most born-again believers will say that they hear the Lord's voice because they're spiritually connected with the Lord. But very few will say that the voice is literal. I myself wonder how it could or why it would possibly be so.

[James Peter]

The way I normally describe it is 'verbal but not audible'. There are words and tone and so forth but the voice is 'in my head' rather than God generating soundwaves in air a few feet away from my ear. To be honest it makes more sense for God to speak directly into somebody's heart than into the room they're in. Unless he really needs to get their attention.

Am I schizophrenic? Maybe... But I strongly doubt it... But if I'm crazy I would say that wouldn't I?

[norwegen]

The way I normally describe it is 'verbal but not audible'. There are words and tone and so forth but the voice is 'in my head' rather than God generating soundwaves in air a few feet away from my ear. To be honest it makes more sense for God to speak directly into somebody's heart than into the room they're in. Unless he really needs to get their attention.

Am I schizophrenic? Maybe... But I strongly doubt it... But if I'm crazy I would say that wouldn't I?A voice is not audible, but it's verbal? How so? An expression that is verbal is an expression that is spoken. Words in your head are not verbal.

I agree that God speaks to our hearts, and I'm glad to know that you don't actually think His voice is audible. When the writers of the scriptures record incidents where people literally hear God's voice, other people are in the vicinity. I think the last time scripture records such an occurrence is when John the Babtist immerses Jesus. Since then, believers have become the voice of God, so to speak.

A friend of mine once said that she heard God's voice audibly. I asked her what it sounded like. Of course, she didn't know. She couldn't describe it. Well, obvioulsy God's voice wasn't audible to her. And she was alone, surprise surprise.

The human mind is extremely malleable, imaginative, and egoistic. Experience counts for almost nothing (it's almost always embellished and seldom recounted accurately) and no one is completely reasonable. That seems to trip up the Charismatic mindset; they're far too emotional and subjective.

Anyway, I don't know if I sidetracked this thread or not, but it inspired me to ask the question. Thanks for answering, James.

[James Peter]

Well, there are different definitions of verbal. Something like "Of relating to, or associated with words" (dictionary.com) is the nuance of 'verbal' that I was trying to harness. And it is exactly like spoken words - just which have bypassed the ears. 'Spoke' is a perfectly good description of the event - it is just like a conversation and is different to 'feeling' or 'knowing' what God is saying (both of which I've also experieced).

The problem with discounting experience is that without it we have nothing. Our lives are a series of experiences (or perhaps more accurately a series of perceptions of events that happen around us). Many people embelish and I can completely understand why people would feel the need to say 'God told me' when he hasn't, but prophecy is vital to the health of the church and if you throw the baby out with the bathwater... Its why you weigh and test. If five people get the same 'message' in isolation then the chances of it being coincidence...