What makes athiests different?

[Mentalist]

Hello :hi:

A few questions for you if you'd be obliged :) I guess your views on these questions are mainly for my benefit, just to see other peoples opinions on some of the questions I have asked myself. It is doubtful my musings are unique though so hopefully some different opinions might be of use to others also. Apologies if questions have been asked/answered before.

Why do you believe thiests come to their beliefs?

Why do athiests come to different beliefs than thiests?

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any negative impact on your life and/or the world?

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any positive impact on your life and/or the world?

What do you think the future holds for thiestic beliefs?

What involvement or disinvolvement do you think institutions such as governments, schools etc. should have on theological issues?

Do you regard people with thiestic beliefs differently to people with athiestic beliefs?

Thanks.

[Ryokan]

Why do you believe thiests come to their beliefs? Genetics, reasoning, spiritual experiences, etc.

Why do athiests come to different beliefs than thiests? Different genes, standards of knowledge, reasoning, life experience, lack of spiritual experience.

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any negative impact on your life and/or the world? Yeah. .

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any positive impact on your life and/or the world? Yeah.

What do you think the future holds for thiestic beliefs?
I don't know. its been around as long as man, I doubt it leaves us.
What involvement or disinvolvement do you think institutions such as governments, schools etc. should have on theological issues? None.

Do you regard people with thiestic beliefs differently to people with athiestic beliefs?

No.

[rach12]

Why do you believe thiests come to their beliefs?

Probably mostly due to having been raised in a theistic household. People are comfortable with what they know and change is scary. I also think people have an inherent need or desire to believe in something greater than them that controls the world around them - a god is comfortable, safe.



Why do athiests come to different beliefs than thiests?

I'm not sure, but many seem to ask a lot of questions about the world around them and answers that would satisfy a theist will not do for an atheist. We're not wired for faith in an unseen entity, it seems. I question everything.



Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any negative impact on your life and/or the world?

Yes. With respect to the world, religious beliefs ultimately result in superiority complexes and subsequently, conflict. For some reason, it's threatening to some theistic sects when people question their beliefs or follow others.

Personally, I've not experienced much religious-based negativity, but I abhor the demonization of women and gays promoted by many theists.



Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any positive impact on your life and/or the world?

Sure...I just can't think of any right now.



What do you think the future holds for thiestic beliefs?

Since religion is an inherrent part of the human psyche, I think it will exist as long as humans do.



What involvement or disinvolvement do you think institutions such as governments, schools etc. should have on theological issues?

If we truly want people to be free to practice any religion they wish, then no public institutions should promote any one religion unless equal time is given to the others. And since people can't help but complain, even that will result in problems.



Do you regard people with thiestic beliefs differently to people with athiestic beliefs?

I only view fundamentalists differently.

[Seasanctuary]

(I liked Rach's formatting.)

Why do you believe thiests come to their beliefs?

Being told so as a child at the same time you're told to look both ways before crossing the street and being taught to read is a good start.

The real cementing factor, though, is community. When you find a group of people who care about each other and you've been included, it's very hard to deny that they've got something powerful in common. It's almost in bad taste to question what they say it is. Evangelist ministries are very aware of this, which is why they approach new contacts in a "people first" manner. It helps that the vast majority of them are completely sincere in this approach.

Apologetics, as such, is usually a secondary tool to add intellectual weight to what people coming into the community -- or having a hard time staying -- want to believe without reservation already. There are people who are primarily interested in finding out first what is true and handling their community relationships secondarily (we have a good number of them on these forums), but that's not how most evangelising works in the field.

Why do athiests come to different beliefs than thiests?

Often in the same ways that I answered the previous question. Growing up that way...finding a community that didn't believe in a God.

The symmetry is a little off, though, as it seems a greater number of people start going from theist to atheist by a bothersome incongruity within their former beliefs or with those beliefs and the world. I attribute this disparity to the actual existence of these incongruities. Even if some form of Christianity were true, the sheer variety of types of Christianity compared to the few types of Atheism would in itself create worrisome problems for many.

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any negative impact on your life and/or the world?
Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any positive impact on your life and/or the world?

Some do, but not by virtue of being theistic beliefs. Theistic beliefs do alter how people perceive reality and how they value other people. Sometimes this results in suicide bombers. Sometimes this results in volunteer nurses. It's rather like a gun's presence: neutral in itself, but can alter the situation in very positive or very negative ways.

What do you think the future holds for thiestic beliefs?

The same as the past has held. I see nothing in the present that will change course.

What involvement or disinvolvement do you think institutions such as governments, schools etc. should have on theological issues?

I would like to see religion be an individual's choice. I support policies which encourage this end.

Do you regard people with thiestic beliefs differently to people with athiestic beliefs?

How I regard them is much more dependent on the type of theist or atheist they are...why do they think the way they do and how does this affect them? I do tend to be more curious about atheists simply because it's more likely that such a person has changed worldview than a random theist (true for where I live anyway). Like you, I'm quite interested in why one person goes this way and another that.

...now the harder question is why people pick the political parties they do. :P

[Mentalist]

Thanks for all the replies so far :) It is only fair I have a go at answering my own question I suppose. Oh, and apologies for my spelling in my first post.

Why do you believe thiests come to their beliefs?

As many of you have alluded to I believe cultural, community and peer influence have the greatest impact on religous belief. It seems fairly obvious when considering the world and it's beliefs people are very likely to follow cultural/parental/peers. These beliefs are rarely questioned when growing up (especially in less liberal communities) and while it might appear otherwise respect is given to cultural norms. Without a religous cultural framwork in place I speculate that thiestic beliefs would be rare amongst people. In England where I live religous beliefs are in decline and in a self perpetuation circle the lower the community religous beliefs the less likely new generations will be drawn in to religion.

For those that aren't culturally indoctrinated into religion I believe it's religion's proviision of emotional and social support that "converts" people often when people are lacking in these areas.

Why do athiests come to different beliefs than thiests?

Agreeing with previous posters, growing up in a community where religous belief is uncommon there was little influence to push me towards religion. I certainly didn't believe in a God when I was born and without some reasonable pressure to think otherwise no one would.

Having said that I have listened to most of the arguments for religous belief and none of them make any reasonable sense to me, I doubt many intelligent people would be convinced of religion through logical argument. Religion operates largely on an emotional level and I believe that atheists are often not "converted" because they are less subject to emotional pleading. I also think most athiests (at least in England) find religion fairly distasteful, sullied by religous crusades, descriminatory behaviour, paedophilic priests etc. and so are less willing to listen to religous preachings. Church attendance and other sacrifices required by many religous cults also seem less attractive in a world ever increasingly in a rush.

So I think athiesm is the default belief, and without cultural indoctrination it is likely to remain. Use of logic over emotion when confronted with thiestic philosophy is what seperates the two.

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any negative impact on your life and/or the world?

I do find thiestic belief to be a somewhat dangerous belief, essentially delegating moral responsibility to something other than yourself. While religous morality is often pulled along by cultural morality when I hear Bush Jnr. speaking of God and then of going to war in Iraq, I can't help but feel concerned.

The most conerning are the things that people will justify due to their particular religous cults teachings. Just recently I saw an episode of the US version of wife swap where a gay couple swapped with a family of some Christian denomination, the father in the Christian household had to consult with his pasteur about the possibility of a gay man being in his household, and the pasteur said sometihng along the lines of "Jesus teaches that you should treat homosexuals as you would treat a leper". It was difficult for me to comprehend someone in a modern western civilization implying that those suffering disease, not alone homosexuals should be avoided at all costs.

So while I find thiestic beliefs somewhat disconcerting it is the teachings of many religous cults that I find abhorrent rather than their belief in God(s).

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any positive impact on your life and/or the world?

Some religous belief systems do encourage behavious that I think make the world a more pleasnt place to live in. American Indian teachings of living in harmony with nature for example encourage behaviour that I find generally of positive influence.

What do you think the future holds for thiestic beliefs?

Seeing the decline in religous belief in England I think there is a chance that eventually thiestic beliefs will subside. The greater the knowledge humans acquire the less there is to attribute to unseen forces. Supertision and a desire to explain the unknown will always exist though so maybe thiestic beliefs will always be with us.

What involvement or disinvolvement do you think institutions such as governments, schools etc. should have on theological issues?

I believe this to be a more difficult issue than people give credit. While seperation of church and state seems a simple concept and one I would agree with it doesn't always seem so clear cut to me.

The renewed interest in Turkey where the state enforces a ban on Islamic headscarves in academic institutions is a case in point and I'm really not sure where I stand on issues like this.

Do you regard people with thiestic beliefs differently to people with athiestic beliefs?

Yes, though I don't usually find it a very important factor.

[Seasanctuary]

So I think athiesm is the default belief, and without cultural indoctrination it is likely to remain. Use of logic over emotion when confronted with thiestic philosophy is what seperates the two.

I look at this a little differently.

One constant in the human experience is being faced with the unknown or the uncontrollable. Common examples would be rainfall for crops, survival of a disease that kills only some of the affected, or winning a battle (or sporting match). Another constant is our nature of looking for patterns. Put these together and the generation of new magical and religious beliefs will follow.

For example, perhaps one time after it hadn't rained for a while, your town held a dance for some unrelated reason and it started to rain during the dance. Even those originally involved would think it was probably a coincidence, but the next time it stops raining they realize it's so important that it rain again that they're willing to give dancing a shot...just in case...it couldn't hurt. That's a new magic. Maybe it does rain again during the dance. Maybe it rains again in a day or two...good enough! Maybe they keep trying dances until it "works". It's easy to think that something is just a little off...not the right rhythm...not the right attitude...or maybe there's a person in control of the rain that's finicky.

Interestingly, Science is done in much the same way. We're faced with things we don't understand or can't control...and we look for patterns. We try stuff out. The difference is that Scientific practise is a lot more wary about going off on tracks paying attention to only things that seem to confirm it and ignoring things that don't. Thanks to folks like Popper, Scientists make an extra effort to make sure their ideas can be shown to be wrong if they happen to be. There's even a culture in Science of it being really noteworthy to show that something is false. In magic and religion, the opposite tends to be the case; the conclusion becomes more important than the evidence and it's best if the conclusions becomes the kind of idea for which contrary evidence is either not possible or easily ignored. The culture in religion does not reward those who show that ideas are wrong, but tends to punish those who even look.

So let's say that lack-of-religion is a default position. I'd agree that we usually get our particular magical and religious ideas from our parents or the popular religion in our area, but even if those weren't available to us I'm pretty sure that we'd start it up ourselves because of the unknown/uncontrolled and our constant search for patterns. From there, someone might notice a problem with the magical thinking -- perhaps they went to another city and found that rain calling is handled very differently. This new skeptic had to come after the magic or there'd be nothing to be skeptical about. So is "Athiesm" a default position? It depends if you're talking about lack-of-religion or skepticism. From context, it sounds like you're speaking about the latter. I disagree that skeptical and careful reasoning about claimed patterns could be a default position. It's a good position, but still a position-in-response.

Neither would I characterize the split as a matter of "logic" vs "emotion." I've seen plenty from both sides on these forums. I see it more as a split between the method vs. the conclusion as being more important.

Being contrary as usual,
Sea

[Mentalist]

Yes, I agree with most of the points you make here.

I was attempting to suggest athiesm was a default position rather the skepticism rather than the other way round as you suggest though. By this I just meant that we are not born with any knowledge of ideas about God and therefore athiesm is what we know of until we have inputs that suggest otherwise.

Good points you make on our own minds abilities to come to false conclusions though, as my forum name alludes to it is something I'm very interested in. I agree with you that my usage of the terms logic and emotion were far too broad remarks and there are many other factors that come into play. I should have considered my post more before commiting to database storage.

I will stick by my belief that willingness to accept information from authority figures, community etc. to be the largest contributor in perpetuating religous beliefs but I should, as you have, remarked on the incredibly abilities of the human mind to decieve. The willingness to see patterns where there are none, to attribute personal meaning to non-personal data, to attriute magic to the unexplained are all "natural" traits that we all pursose to some degree or another, so as you say, skepticism is not a default position. I imagine some people are born with more skepticism than others though I'm not sure if there is anywhere to be sure about this?

Thanks for your post.

I look at this a little differently.

One constant in the human experience is being faced with the unknown or the uncontrollable. Common examples would be rainfall for crops, survival of a disease that kills only some of the affected, or winning a battle (or sporting match). Another constant is our nature of looking for patterns. Put these together and the generation of new magical and religious beliefs will follow.

For example, perhaps one time after it hadn't rained for a while, your town held a dance for some unrelated reason and it started to rain during the dance. Even those originally involved would think it was probably a coincidence, but the next time it stops raining they realize it's so important that it rain again that they're willing to give dancing a shot...just in case...it couldn't hurt. That's a new magic. Maybe it does rain again during the dance. Maybe it rains again in a day or two...good enough! Maybe they keep trying dances until it "works". It's easy to think that something is just a little off...not the right rhythm...not the right attitude...or maybe there's a person in control of the rain that's finicky.

Interestingly, Science is done in much the same way. We're faced with things we don't understand or can't control...and we look for patterns. We try stuff out. The difference is that Scientific practise is a lot more wary about going off on tracks paying attention to only things that seem to confirm it and ignoring things that don't. Thanks to folks like Popper, Scientists make an extra effort to make sure their ideas can be shown to be wrong if they happen to be. There's even a culture in Science of it being really noteworthy to show that something is false. In magic and religion, the opposite tends to be the case; the conclusion becomes more important than the evidence and it's best if the conclusions becomes the kind of idea for which contrary evidence is either not possible or easily ignored. The culture in religion does not reward those who show that ideas are wrong, but tends to punish those who even look.

So let's say that lack-of-religion is a default position. I'd agree that we usually get our particular magical and religious ideas from our parents or the popular religion in our area, but even if those weren't available to us I'm pretty sure that we'd start it up ourselves because of the unknown/uncontrolled and our constant search for patterns. From there, someone might notice a problem with the magical thinking -- perhaps they went to another city and found that rain calling is handled very differently. This new skeptic had to come after the magic or there'd be nothing to be skeptical about. So is "Athiesm" a default position? It depends if you're talking about lack-of-religion or skepticism. From context, it sounds like you're speaking about the latter. I disagree that skeptical and careful reasoning about claimed patterns could be a default position. It's a good position, but still a position-in-response.

Neither would I characterize the split as a matter of "logic" vs "emotion." I've seen plenty from both sides on these forums. I see it more as a split between the method vs. the conclusion as being more important.

Being contrary as usual,
Sea

[rach12]

My opinion is that religion is the default position in the absence of science.

Religion has a long history and has been (and continues to be) extremely important to human culture and society. However, with the advancement of science (i.e., knowledge), we lose some of that unknown component to life, and by default, lose a little of our intellectual and/or emotional need for a god or gods. We no longer need Ra to explain the appearance of the sun every day when we learn the science of astronomy.

[Kulindrichnus]

My opinion is that religion is the default position in the absence of science.

Religion has a long history and has been (and continues to be) extremely important to human culture and society. However, with the advancement of science (i.e., knowledge), we lose some of that unknown component to life, and by default, lose a little of our intellectual and/or emotional need for a god or gods. We no longer need Ra to explain the appearance of the sun every day when we learn the science of astronomy.

It's not science per se, but access to it. Religious beliefs are dominant in societies which are poor and uneducated. Access to education promotes critical thinking, and the questioning of those beliefs. We're lucky as atheists because we have science to turn to for alternative explanations these days, but plenty of people have questioned received wisdom down the years, mostly because it was patently absurd, but they didn't have such handy alternatives.

K

[BeHereNow]

Hello :hi:

A few questions for you if you'd be obliged :) I guess your views on these questions are mainly for my benefit, just to see other peoples opinions on some of the questions I have asked myself. It is doubtful my musings are unique though so hopefully some different opinions might be of use to others also. Apologies if questions have been asked/answered before.

Hello, Mentalist. Nice screen name~

I'm a weak atheist, and I'll answer your questions as briefly as possible.

Why do you believe thiests come to their beliefs?

Some are raised that way and it becomes an unshakeable part of their world outlook. Some convert due to disliking of their former religion, but still needing to fill the "god void". I assume there must be some people who made intellectual decisions (based on arguments or essays), but I've never heard of it.

Why do athiests come to different beliefs than thiests?

I just woke up that way one day a few years ago. No real reason. One day I just said.. "Hey, what was I thinking these past 20 years?"

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any negative impact on your life and/or the world?

Only in the case of extremism. For example, I like the Howard Stern show, but his radio broadcast is horribly censored as a result of the religious beliefs of the FCC. Also, Islamic extremism is a big negative in the world.

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any positive impact on your life and/or the world?

Not to me directly, but religion does motivate some people to go out and help impoverished folks. That's a great thing.

What do you think the future holds for thiestic beliefs?

Is atheism growing? I don't have any stats on historical trends, but it seems likely that current religions will continue to evolve, and more and more atheists will appear on the scene.

What involvement or disinvolvement do you think institutions such as governments, schools etc. should have on theological issues?

If we're talking about government institutions, I'd say none. But it's good to have private institutions that fill certain niches.

Do you regard people with thiestic beliefs differently to people with athiestic beliefs?

Speaking in general terms, yes. To me, believing in a supreme deity is simple minded and indicates weakness / dependency. However, I think "rebellious" atheists are just the same, and there are some examples of religious people whom I find extremely honorable, intelligent, and compelling.

Thanks.

Thanks!

[rach12]

It's not science per se, but access to it.
Yup.

[EvoUK]

Why do you believe thiests come to their beliefs?

Mostly due to cultural influences. I can’t help but notice that the type of theist you are depends mostly on thich country you happen to be born into.

Why do athiests come to different beliefs than thiests?

I don’t have the same “emotional” needs as many theists I encounter. I have not seen any theistic argument that makes sense logically/rationally speaking, and I can’t believe that anyone would come to due purely to the arguments put forward for it.

Appologetics doesn't actually ground anyone's faith - it's something adopted after an emotional commitment is made to a given religion, and seems simply a way for some theists to pretend that they have an impervious logical argument to shroud their impervious emotional commitment.

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any negative impact on your life and/or the world?

theistic beliefs are, [i]at best superfluous in this modern scientific age of knowledge and the expansion of that knowledge. It is too abracadabra, hocus pocus, and illogical! Instead of intelligently looking for the answers to those psychological needs, people grab onto the easy answer from the religious "silver platter."

No, thank you. Theism can keep its silver platter answers. I will not take the road more traveled and forsake my intelligent, rational, and critical thought. I will not forsake the search of truth for what basically amounts to a psychological crutch.

It has a negative impact due to the superiority complexes it invariably forms (the jeudeo/Christian/Islamic religions are among the worst for this), as well as, to take our culture as an example- the dumbing down of education, especially science, in favour of what can only be described as an utterly backwards belief involving a young earth and a global flood that never existed.

Not to mention racisism, homophobia, demonization of women among others. Yeah, I think religion has a very negative impact on the world.

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any positive impact on your life and/or the world?

As I mentioned earlier, it acts as a psychological crutch for most of the planet. If religion were removed tomorrow, some hapless individuals wouldn’t be able to function- as absurd and laughable as that thought is. There are even some posters on here who are meant to be from a developed country who couldn’t function normally without their big sky daddy breathing down their neck.

Also, some churches, like most social clubs, give to charity.

What do you think the future holds for thiestic beliefs?

At the very least, religion, even the more backwards ones, will be around for a long time to come yet.

At the moment, people are worried about the future, and that always brings more people to religion, especially the more nutty fundamentalist parts of it- back to the psychological crutch thing I spoke of earlier.

I feel that if the religions we have at the moment FINALLY faded out, they’d just be replaced by something else. If not god-based, then, like religion, authority-based.

Most people are sheep (and no, I do not consider that a good thing) and need to be told what to do.

What involvement or disinvolvement do you think institutions such as governments, schools etc. should have on theological issues?

Absolutely none. I don’t see how a government should mention gods at all one way or another. I’m especially mystified at how a president has to say “god bless america!” at the end of all his speaches, or why “I god we trust” has to be on the money (even though it’s a recent addition).

I have no idea why people think religious mythologies such as global flood, YECism etc has any place in science classrooms.

Do you regard people with thiestic beliefs differently to people with athiestic beliefs?

I make no secret that I have absolutely no respect for their beliefs what so ever. The person him/herself is another matter. I treat them depending upon how they behave themselves. You can be a hateful cretin if you’re atheist or theist.

As I find religious beliefs to be superfluous, your beliefs regarding god have absolutelyno interest to me what so ever. It’s how you act in real life that matters.

[Barry Desborough]

Why do you believe thiests come to their beliefs?

There may be an explanation for belief in the idea that it is or was adaptive. Belief systems themselves have evolved - those that most efficiently take hold in host minds are the ones that have persisted.

Why do athiests come to different beliefs than thiests?

I don't think theism addresses the problems and concerns of people as much as it used to. Other systems of thought have gained more prominence and have become more 'acceptable'. I think there is also a social dimension to this question. Religion has been and is being used as a means of social control. In the past, some of the ruling elite may have been in a position to indulge in atheistic notions, as long as the ruled weren't permitted to join in in such dangerous musings. Now, the cat is out of the bag and uppity lower class intellectuals have these notions as ammunition. I suspect a correlation between left-wing leanings and atheism. It certainly applies in my case and as another poster has said, both traits seem to have some genetic component.

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any negative impact on your life and/or the world?

Yes. I don't think theism is as adaptive as it used to be. I don't go along with the idea that it is to blame for as many many ills as others seem to, but it is just one more aspect of 'tribal' identity which has now become a global threat.

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any positive impact on your life and/or the world?

I have a problem in identifying what my personal morality is grounded in. I don't doubt that morality, but I suspect that being brought up in a one-time Christian culture (Britain) may have had an influence. If this is so, I think that there are some things about religious tradition that are positive. It is a task to separate out the positive and negative effects.

What do you think the future holds for thiestic beliefs?

I think that they will evolve, hopefully in a positive way. A big worry is the possibility of a mass flight into irrationality as exemplified by Islamic and Christian fundamentalism.

What involvement or disinvolvement do you think institutions such as governments, schools etc. should have on theological issues?

The upholding of the freedom and right to worship, to hold theistic (and atheistic) positions without fear of prejudice, as long as any related activity remains within secular law.

Do you regard people with thiestic beliefs differently to people with athiestic beliefs?

No, unless those beliefs are clearly irrational. I regard such irrationality as victimhood rather than blameworthy failings.

[EvoUK]

I suspect a correlation between left-wing leanings and atheism.

This is something I'm interested in. Most of the liberal posters in here are atheist, and most of the fundy-right-wing-homophobic-pro-war nut jobs in here are fundy theistic.

There is a correlation, and it would be interesting to start a thread on the topic.

I would venture a guess and say that many atheists here are either liberals or lean toward libertarianism. There may be a few "Log Cabin" atheists trying to reform the Republican party, but you have to admit, it would be hard to be a member of a group that doesn't think your really count enough to be called Americans (George Bush's belief about Atheists).

In my experience, I have never met a fundie who was not an ultra conservative Republican. The religious right, yadda, yadda, yadda..

Don't get me wrong- america is definately a right-wing country. It's left party (out of a two party system the idea is laughable) is basically republican-lite. "liberals" tend to vote for dems, though they don't really stand up to liberal ideals, dang- republicans nor dems live up to conservative ideals either...



Sorry... off topic... :tongue:

[mentored1]

Well met mentalist...


Why do you believe thiests come to their beliefs?

Why do they come to their beliefs... :demure: From the same source that all of us pursue some meaning or answer - the fear of nothingness. Eternal life extends the only life we know of so it is very appealing... Theism satisfies a basic need to survive and have the present extend indefinitely. And most religious systems have structure which is comforting to a creature that is easily shaken by change...

Why do athiests come to different beliefs than thiests?

Perhaps because those who come to reject religious / theistic arguments see that life does end at death and attempts to extend it past that barrier, as far as we know, are only in the imagination. Perhaps atheists are more pragmatic or realistic or less imaginative - I don't know. But they are certainly less willing to accept immortality if it doesn't have some sensible proof (sensible to them).

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any negative impact on your life and/or the world?

No way. The only negative impacts are part of the human character. Even if we didn't have theistic beliefs we'd find some other outlet to vent our destructive nature on each other. The guise in which our violence hides is really a moot point: we're violent and competitive, it's part of our heritage and it'll be with us a long time. If anything I wonder what would happen if we did eliminate theism or if it never arose at all. Things might be a lot darker than they are now.

Do you believe thiestic beliefs have any positive impact on your life and/or the world?

Theistic beliefs provide a comforting reference for people and a way to cushion the fear of death that stares conscious life in the face. It gives a place for people to retreat into and something to hope for, something that - although invisible - seems more real and solid to them than this world does.

What do you think the future holds for thiestic beliefs?

They will always exist in some form or another. A confrontation with our accumulating knowledge and the more traditional theistic beliefs will come to a head at some point and changes will be made. We're resistant to change so a struggle will come, but don't we always make improvements or at least learn something from struggles? Theistic beliefs will play a key role in these changes and improvements to our society, our knowledge, and our outlook.

What involvement or disinvolvement do you think institutions such as governments, schools etc. should have on theological issues?

Our founding fathers already covered that. Government can make no law to support any one religion over others (treat all of them the same, one way or another) and government cannot prohibit the free exercise of religious beliefs. Common sense goes a long way and the battles over religious issues today are ridiculous.

Do you regard people with thiestic beliefs differently to people with athiestic beliefs?

Only if they insist on demeaning those with different views. Preaching your faith or lack thereof is fine but blowing people up, executing heretics, or forbidding the mention of your God's name is a tragic mistake. But of course anyone who feels the need to deprive someone else of life, liberty, or happiness so they can profit by another's loss should be jettisoned from the planet... :daveg:

take care

[Seasanctuary]

This is something I'm interested in. Most of the liberal posters in here are atheist, and most of the fundy-right-wing-homophobic-pro-war nut jobs in here are fundy theistic.

There is a correlation, and it would be interesting to start a thread on the topic.

Why not do so? I bet it'd be an interesting thread. I'm a counterexample with with strong atheist/republican views and it's been a while but I know there are some folks on these forums with strong christian/democrat views.

'course, I wonder how they can stand being wrong in both dimensions. ;)

- Sea

[Barry Desborough]

Why not do so? I bet it'd be an interesting thread [investigating any conection between religion and politics]. I'm a counterexample with with strong atheist/republican views and it's been a while but I know there are some folks on these forums with strong christian/democrat views.

'course, I wonder how they can stand being wrong in both dimensions. ;)

- Sea

Not sure how it could be best formatted - an intro followed by free-form postings, or a poll? Maybe a multiple-choice poll with questions about political and religious issues (rather than straight Republican/Democrat & theist/atheist)? But I suppose it's inevitable that the questions would end up being U.S.-centric...

Or maybe a questionnaire, asking for answers on a scale from strongly agree to strongly disagree?

[Seasanctuary]

Barry,

I think what you posted in this thread will work just fine. Copy...and paste. :)