Apostasy

[Chappie]

Apostasy, what is it. Is it a falling away from salvation as some suggest; or is it a falling away from sound doctrine as others suggest.

I shall reserve my "opinion" until after I see some of yours......

Shall we post as many scriptures as necessary to support our positions.....

[Bill the Cat]

Well, I love to go to the dictionaries/lexicons for support...

The Word lists apostasy here:

Jer 8:4 "You shall say to them, 'Thus says the LORD, "Do men fall and not get up again? Does one turn away and not repent?
Jer 8:5 "Why then has this people, Jerusalem, Turned away in continual apostasy? They hold fast to deceit, They refuse to return.
Jer 8:6 "I have listened and heard, They have spoken what is not right; No man repented of his wickedness, Saying, 'What have I done?' Everyone turned to his course, Like a horse charging into the battle.


Apostasy
APOS'TASY, n. [Gr. a defection, to depart.]
1. An abandonment of what one has professed; a total desertion, or departure from one's faith or religion.
2. The desertion from a party to which one has adhered.
3. Among physicians, the throwing off of exfoliated or fractured bone, or the various solution of disease.
4. An abscess.
Websters Bible dictionary

Apostasy
Described
Deu_13:13; Heb_3:12;
Nave's topical dictionary

Apostasy; Apostate
a-pos´ta-si, a-pos´tā̇t (ἡ αποστασία, hē apostasía, “a standing away from”): I.e. a falling away, a withdrawal, a defection. Not found in the English Versions of the Bible, but used twice in the New Testament, in the Greek original, to express abandonment of the faith. Paul was falsely accused of teaching the Jews apostasy from Moses (Act_21:21); he predicted the great apostasy from Christianity, foretold by Jesus (Mat_24:10-12) which would precede “the day of the Lord” (2Th_2:2). Apostasy, not in name but in fact, meets scathing rebuke in the Epistle of Jude, e.g. the apostasy of angels (Jud_1:6).
ISBE


It is a turning away from God and not returning.

[Dee Dee Warren]

I only use it as someone falling away from the faith.

[Dave]

Apostasy is the total repudiation of the Chrisitian faith. That is to be differentiated from heresy, which is the obstinate post-baptismal denial of some truth which must be believed with divine and catholic faith, or it is likewise an obstinate doubt concerning the same.

Peace,
Dave

[Chappie]

APOSTASY
APOSTASY. A "falling away." The common classical use of the word has to do with a political defection (Gen 14:4, LXX; 2 Chron 13:6, LXX; Acts 5:37). In the NT its more usual meaning is that of a religious defection (21:21; 4:1; 3:12).

This is called "apostasy from the faith" (apostasia a fide): a secession from the church, and a disowning of the name of Christ. Some of its peculiar characteristics are mentioned, such as seducing spirits, doctrines of demons, hypocritical lying, a seared conscience, forbidding of marriage and of meats, a form of godliness without the power (1 Tim 4:1; 2 Tim 3:5).

The grave nature of apostasy is shown by such passages as Heb 10:26-29; 2 Peter 2:15-21, and John 15:22. Apostasy as the act of a professed Christian, who knowingly and deliberately rejects revealed truth regarding the deity of Christ (1 John 4:1-3) and redemption through His atoning sacrifice (Phil 3:18; 2 Peter 2:1) is different from error, which may be the result of ignorance (Acts 19:1-6), or heresy, which may be the result of falling into the snare of Satan (2 Tim 2:25-26).

Both error and heresy may accordingly be consistent with true faith. On the other hand, apostasy departs from the faith but not from the outward profession of it (2 Tim 3:5). Apostasy, whether among the angels (Isa 14:12-14; Ezek 28:15; Jude 6), in Israel (Isa 1:1-6; 5:5-7), or in the church (Rev 3:14-16) is irremediable and awaits judgment. Mankind's apostasy in Adam (Gen 3:6-7) is curable only through the sacrifice of Christ. Apostates apparently can only be professors and not actual possessors of true salvation, otherwise their defection would incur severe chastening or, if this failed to restore them, untimely (physical) death (1 Cor 5:5; 11:32; 1 John 5:16).

(From The New Unger's Bible Dictionary. Originally published by Moody Press of Chicago, Illinois. Copyright (c) 1988.)

[themuzicman]

So, are you apostate if you stop going to church?

Michael

[Chappie]

Today @ 04:13 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=141948#post141948)
themuzicman:

So, are you apostate if you stop going to church?

Michael

I don't know.... :shrug:
What do you say??

[themuzicman]

My initial impression would be no. Your cite seemed to indicate that secession from THE church (which church?) was a part of the equasion.

I certainly agree that church life is a part of being a Christian, but this seems a bit much.

Michael

[trueseeker]

My understanding is that the same greek word was used commonly to refer to someone 'leaving' a house, or 'deserting' an army. Which seems fairly clear to me, that it is someone deserting the faith, however I think there can still be opportunity for them to return. I don't believe this is a unpardonable sin.

Regarding not going to church. My take on that subject is that you can't go to church. You are either part of the church or you aren't. The word church means -- 'the called out ones'. You are either a called out one (you have heard God's call and accepted it) or you haven't. Of course, it is good to have regular fellowship with other called out ones, but you don't have to be a member of a club to do that.

[themuzicman]

That's only if you interpret "body" and "church" in the same way.

As a matter of local culture, a church is a local gathering of believers. The question was whether one was apostate for failing to gather with local believers.

Michael

[Chappie]

Today @ 06:24 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=142030#post142030)
trueseeker:

My understanding is that the same greek word was used commonly to refer to someone 'leaving' a house, or 'deserting' an army. Which seems fairly clear to me, that it is someone deserting the faith, however I think there can still be opportunity for them to return. I don't believe this is a unpardonable sin.

Regarding not going to church. My take on that subject is that you can't go to church. You are either part of the church or you aren't. The word church means -- 'the called out ones'. You are either a called out one (you have heard God's call and accepted it) or you haven't. Of course, it is good to have regular fellowship with other called out ones, but you don't have to be a member of a club to do that.

Heb 6:3-6
3And this will we do, if God permit.

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.


How do these passages tie in????

[Chappie]

Today @ 05:41 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=142002#post142002)
themuzicman:

My initial impression would be no. Your cite seemed to indicate that secession from THE church (which church?) was a part of the equasion.

I certainly agree that church life is a part of being a Christian, but this seems a bit much.

Michael


I agree...

[trueseeker]

Chappie asked,

How my view squared with Heb. 6: 3-6. That's a good question, obviously the writer of Hebrews is talking about a line that a Christian can cross that they can't come back. But my impression from experience and other scriptures, is that people can and have left the faith and have later returned. I know several people who say they accepted the Lord and started their Christian walk, got mad at Him, or just drifted away, and later came back to Him.

James 5:19-20 'MY brethren if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death...'

James is talking to Christians, so it seems to me that he is saying if a Christian strays from Christianity and is brought back it will save his soul.

[trueseeker]

themuzicman asked,

whether one was apostate for failing to gather with local believers.

If that were the definition, we would all be apostate, because I'm sure their are local believers that we all fail to gather with.

If you regularly gather with a particular group of local believers, that probably excludes you from gathering with other local believers.

My opinion is that joining and/or attending a denominational club, has absolutely no bearing on whether someone is a Christian or not. Christians working together in organizations can be very valuable and can create an edifying enviornment, but Christianity has to do with a personal relationship with Jesus. If you have repented and committed yourself to follow Jesus, you are a Christian. If you haven't you are not, no matter what your church membership says and how often you attend. If you decide to take back your life and commitment to Jesus, you have fallen away. However I think in most cases, God will allow those who have fallen away to recommit and get back on track.

[Chappie]

This is a hard subject for me, I confess my ignorance of a coherient scriptural understanding. Willing to learn. Still I will put every thing through the wringer.

[themuzicman]

Today @ 05:54 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=142344#post142344)
trueseeker:

themuzicman asked,

whether one was apostate for failing to gather with local believers.

If that were the definition, we would all be apostate, because I'm sure their are local believers that we all fail to gather with.

If you regularly gather with a particular group of local believers, that probably excludes you from gathering with other local believers.

My opinion is that joining and/or attending a denominational club, has absolutely no bearing on whether someone is a Christian or not. Christians working together in organizations can be very valuable and can create an edifying enviornment, but Christianity has to do with a personal relationship with Jesus. If you have repented and committed yourself to follow Jesus, you are a Christian. If you haven't you are not, no matter what your church membership says and how often you attend. If you decide to take back your life and commitment to Jesus, you have fallen away. However I think in most cases, God will allow those who have fallen away to recommit and get back on track.

Are you being deliberately obstinate, or do you not understand the difference between gathering with local believers and gathering with ALL local believers?

Michael