Pedophilia = Transference...?

[Ben Franklin]

To　me, if true,　this may be the missing link in curing child molesters.

Pedophilia and the transference relationship. (http://www.rubedo.psc.br/artigosb/darkside.htm)

...This is a case of erotic transference which is hardly ever mentioned in psychoanalytic literature on the subject of child therapy, or the theoretical question of transference in this particular context. However, we must force ourselves to admit that if the rule of abstinence in work with adults really does apply to sexual acts, it must also come up in therapy with children, where sexual acting-out constitutes pedophilia. It is significant that professional child-care providers (like teachers, social workers, counselors, etc.) who have not necessarily undergone psychoanalysis, and thus have never confronted their counter-transferential projections onto children, are in the greatest danger of acting out pedophile fantasies...

[Minnesota]

Just from skimming through the piece it's evident its juvenile approach and its ideas on the issues of pedophilia are as useless as are L. Ron Hubbard's crackpot ideas on general mental health. To call it, "hair-brained" is being kind. One would be better off seeking the opinion of a Peruvian shaman.

[Mentalist]

What a load of drivel, it gives considerably more insight into the mind of the author than it does of pedophilia.

[kendal]

it is a mental disorder,and too many people seem to have it!
They need REAL help,but it seems like there isn't much out there?

[Mentalist]

it is a mental disorder,and too many people seem to have it!
They need REAL help,but it seems like there isn't much out there?

A mental disorder?? Rediculous!

You're right in that they're not going to get real help with such incredibly poor understanding as that.

[kendal]

:rasberry: Wow! Testy huh?
Well,I am sorry if you can't accept logical ideas,but thats just too bad. I cannot share your opinion,so please try to respect this,ok?
You seem to be a bitter lil' individual,but thats not the topic at hand for the moment,though it needs to be addressed. NEW TOPIC anyone?

[Mentalist]

:rasberry: Wow! Testy huh?
Well,I am sorry if you can't accept logical ideas,but thats just too bad. I cannot share your opinion,so please try to respect this,ok?
You seem to be a bitter lil' individual,but thats not the topic at hand for the moment,though it needs to be addressed. NEW TOPIC anyone?

It seems as though you regard yourself as an expert if you think you are able to make those assessments.

It might make you sleep better to think that someone has to have a mental disorder to be a pedophile but that doesn't make it the case. Better understanding of the problem helps more people get help and get the right help. Dehumanizing pedophiles only serves to isolate them from society and make them more likely targets of abuse.

Apologies that disagagreeing with you has caused you so much distress, it was not my intention, but if you would like to start a thread discussing me, you are most welcome.

[Ben Franklin]

Transference is a real psychological process, so why do you dismiss the theory that pedophilia is similar to (or is one form of) transference out-of-hand...? Are you saying that pedophiles couldn`t act out on children who they`ve transferred their sexual emotions onto...? Are you objecting to the "dissertation" or the concept (or both)...? If so, why...?

[jason]

Transference is a real psychological process, so why do you dismiss the theory that pedophilia is similar to (or is one form of) transference out-of-hand...? Are you saying that pedophiles couldn`t act out on children who they`ve transferred their sexual emotions onto...? Are you objecting to the "dissertation" or the concept (or both)...? If so, why...?
They probably don't like the idea because they dislike being labeled mentally ill

[Ben Franklin]

They probably don't like the idea because they dislike being labeled mentally ill

Hmmm... That's a shame people use that label overly-much, since many of the phobias/traumas that people suffer from are a result of a natural mind activity... I wouldn't say such people are mentally ill, but rather that they need to learn to rehabilitate their psychoses... If people didn't have mind, they couldn't have patterns of behavior, so it's just adjusting the process which created the abnormality, for lack of a better term... When you see mind as an operating system, it's easier to understand the process...　No need to take any of this stuff personally, since conscious acting is not an issue here: pedophilia is an unconscious urge that needs to be clarified... Identifying the condition would go a long way in treating it, wouldn't it...?

[Mentalist]

My main gripe was that a certain poster was claiming pedophiles have a mental disorder, which as far I'm aware is completely false and I believe labelling as such is harmful.

As for the essay, as far as I can make out it's rambling conjecture from start to finish. The writer jumps from abstract scene to abstract scene with little to no explanation or evidence. I find many psychoanalytic concepts rather dubious and essays like this only encourage me to look skeptically at them. Numerous references to themes in myth, folklore and religion are made inferring that they offer some psychological truth. Talk of the divine, evil and soul have no grounding in science as far as I'm concerned. While child/parent relationships are important, psychoanalysis, including this essay, tend to deal almost solely with this relationship to the exclusion of other possible influences. The essay brings together various concepts and theories from other sources but fails to integrate them and furthermore the conclusion does not draw any conclusions from earlier concepts at all but instead but brings up new concepts.

So, the essay has too narrow a focus, introduces vague and unsubstantiated concepts, fails to relate these concepts to the subject and does not draw any conclusions. That's why I wasn't impressed.

[jason]

My main gripe was that a certain poster was claiming pedophiles have a mental disorder, which as far I'm aware is completely false and I believe labelling as such is harmful.
Given paedophillia is listed in the DSM-IV, clearly you are mistaken for thinking it is not considered a mental disorder/illness.

Jason

[Mentalist]

Given paedophillia is listed in the DSM-IV, clearly you are mistaken for thinking it is not considered a mental disorder/illness.

Jason

Ok, my apologies, possibly it was just a misunderstanding of what the poster meant on my part. It depends what you consider to be a mental disorder, I would suggest by those classifications a huge proportion (possibly all) of the world's population suffer from some form of mental disorder. In common parlance I feel rather stricter criterion are used than this.

[Ben Franklin]

Ok, my apologies, possibly it was just a misunderstanding of what the poster meant on my part. It depends what you consider to be a mental disorder, I would suggest by those classifications a huge proportion (possibly all) of the world's population suffer from some form of mental disorder. In common parlance I feel rather stricter criterion are used than this.

I agree. I wouldn't label people afraid of heights or confined spaces, as examples, as mentally ill. I believe sexual feelings are also deep-rooted in the same way as the aforementioned phobias, and that pedophilia can be worked through, especially if it is a form of transference. Unfortunately, I'm not a psychiatrist/psychologist, and I am having trouble finding any lay papers posted on this theory. I, too, skipped over the hot-air in the article... I hope that I can find something more credible online: I'll keep looking, guys... :no:

[XaositectCrayon]

this may sound cold... but if they cant control themselves they need to just be "gotten rid of" one way or the other. It'll save them the pain of having to deal with the prisons and us the pain of suffering them.

I never found self control hard...

[Ben Franklin]

this may sound cold... but if they cant control themselves they need to just be "gotten rid of" one way or the other. It'll save them the pain of having to deal with the prisons and us the pain of suffering them.

I never found self control hard...

It's not cold, just wrong-headed... How do you control sexual desire, per se...? The problem with pedophilia is the object of that desire, not the urge itself... Sexuality is universal: controlling desire is a wrong-headed approach.

[XaositectCrayon]

It's not cold, just wrong-headed... How do you control sexual desire, per se...? The problem with pedophilia is the object of that desire, not the urge itself... Sexuality is universal: controlling desire is a wrong-headed approach.
are you claiming I should let my desires run wild? do you want to live in a world were I did everything I desired?

[Ben Franklin]

are you claiming I should let my desires run wild? do you want to live in a world were I did everything I desired?

Don't exaggerate... If sexual desire were stamped out (as you suggest), there would be no species procreation... Desire is a biological urge, not an abherration. Abiding natural desire is not the same as abiding predators or hedonists.

[Jedidiah]

Don't exaggerate... If sexual desire were stamped out (as you suggest), there would be no species procreation... Desire is a biological urge, not an abherration. Abiding natural desire is not the same as abiding predators or hedonists.
The point is that almost all people excercise some level of self control in connection with their sexual desires.

[XaositectCrayon]

Don't exaggerate... If sexual desire were stamped out (as you suggest), there would be no species procreation... Desire is a biological urge, not an abherration. Abiding natural desire is not the same as abiding predators or hedonists.
I didnt say all sexual desire I said that there needs to be self control
if you like it... you can think about it and flog the dolphin all you want but I dont particularly wanna see the children in my neighborhood to grow up into what a molester would make them...

[Ben Franklin]

... I dont particularly wanna see the children in my neighborhood to grow up into what a molester would make them...

That's what I'm getting at, too. Getting these people into acceptable behavior is better than having them "gotten rid of". If implementing transference techniques will change their focus, then let's try that.

Getting rid of pedophiles doesn't solve the problem, it passes it on.

[XaositectCrayon]

quite frankly... I read the article and couldnt relate to any of it
of course I am not too much into psycological lingo

anyways, the question you'd then need to ask is there any safe way to test if these methods work?

[Wisdomlover]

I think that these people are examples of who the Bible states that God has even made the wicked for the purpose of distruction. They can not be helped, it's a lack of a decent soul inside of them.

[God_is_personal]

Hi, Ben . . . Is pedophile violation of a child a thing of transference?

I would say each pedophile predator is different. If an adult male got a sexual taste for nice looking females his age, then noticed how a little child could have smooth skin and nice hair poetically similar to that of an adult lady he would like. And then he went after that child because of the "poetic" similarity . . . I guess that would be a classic case of transference.

But if a person always has been interested just in kids . . . I don't think he or she would be transfering if he or she never got started in liking sexual object persons of his or her own age or at least postpubescent. It would just be that somehow the person wanted to act out sexual impulse, and use a child. Why? I don't know, except maybe merely because the person was able to get to a child and wanted the pleasure and so the person did. People have done evil, in a number of cases, simply because it was there to do and they could do it.

How to cure it? Notice I slipped in the word "evil". It is an evil thing, not just a medical psychiatric issue, I am certain. It involves hurting a child; so no way can it be an act of real love. If you hurt someone, I have to consider that there is some sort of hatred involved; and this includes how there is betrayal of trust. Pedophile violation of a child involves betrayal of trust of the child, of anyone who cares about the child, legal and religious authorities, and the trust of God. One form of hatred is betrayal of trust.

So it is NOT just some genetic or medical phenomenon. But it involves deep very evil and cruel stuff in the person's character so the person is capable of violating the child, and maybe not even have a clue that the predator is hurting someone. Love would make the person able to sense that doing such a thing is harmful. And it involves forcing, which love does not do. So it is a crime, yes, but deeper it is a thing of hate.

So the cure is how God can change a person to become a loving person...one who would not force a child, and would not betray trust or act to intentionally deceive others. Pedophile predation involves forcing, deception, and betrayal. If there is mental disorder and/or "transference" etc. involved, such would be therefore secondary, results of the deeper character problem. But I experience how God can cure my character in His love so I become more caring and sensitive and not forcing in how I relate with people. And I in love do not try to just USE people for pleasure. Pedophilia involves USING a person, instead of relating in a caring way. Also such predation involves isolating the child away from others, instead of fostering for the child to be in social relating in a family and friendly way. So pedophile behavior is very anti-love, very damaging...to the predator, too, of course.