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pancreasman
05-13-2015, 09:24 PM
Sea of red posted a thread about people you can't stand who share your belief system. I found answering a bit difficult so I'm starting this thread.

Here, the discussion is:

Can you name some people you respect and/or admire who do not share your belief system?

Let me begin:

1. Thích Nhất Hạnh is a Vietnamese Zen Buddhist monk, teacher, author, poet and peace activist. He lives in the Plum Village Monastery in the Dordogne region in the South of France, travelling internationally to give retreats and talks. I've read some of his books and tried some of his practices. Great integrity.

2. The recently departed Marcus J. Borg was an American New Testament scholar, theologian and author. He retired as Hundere Distinguished Professor of Religion and Culture at Oregon State University in 2007. I've read all his books and find his framing of Christianity fresh, compassionate and compelling. He nearly gets me there.

3. Rabbi Rami Shapiro: Challenged by Joshu Sasaki Roshi to be a zen rabbi in 1973, ordained as a Reform rabbi in 1981, earned a doctorate in religious studies in 1985, welcomed as a rebbe by Reb Zalman Schachter–Shalomi in 2000, labeled a Holy Rascal by Sister Jose Hobday in 2003, made a 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Mason in 2010, and initiated into the Ramakrishna Order of Vedanta Hinduism in 2011, Rabbi Rami is a world renowned lecturer and author, who has been bringing the perennial wisdom of the world’s religions to spiritual seekers of every faith and none for over forty years. Reading his books. Humble but insightful.

4. CS Lewis. Very influential on my younger self. Read nearly everything he wrote. A man of his time but still with insightful things to say. Some flawed logic but I still love him.

Darth Executor
05-13-2015, 10:36 PM
1. Rev. Sun Myung Moon,
Religion: Thinks he's the Second Jesus
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Rev._Sun_Myung_Moon_speaks%2C_Las_Vegas%2C_NV%2C_U SA_on_April_4%2C_2010.png/220px-Rev._Sun_Myung_Moon_speaks%2C_Las_Vegas%2C_NV%2C_U SA_on_April_4%2C_2010.png
While I don't believe the guy is Jesus, and is probably a charlatan and/or nutjob, he is also a master class troll: (https://www.change.org/p/anti-defamation-league-officially-label-rev-sun-myung-moon-an-antisemite-and-a-homophobe?recruiter=26677911&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive)


"To recreate Israel, the church and the state must become one as Cain and Abel. Instead they became one with Rome and captured and killed Jesus. They united with Rome. Who are the Jewish members here, raise your hands! Jewish people, you have to repent. Jesus was the King of Israel. Through the principle of indemnity Hitler killed 6 million Jews. That is why. God could not prevent Satan from doing that because Israel killed the True Parents. Even now, you have to determine that you will repent and follow and become one with Christianity through Rev. Moon."

"Sexual intercourse complications. Is the world around us a peaceful world centered upon God, or is it all confused? That is what is called free sex. What is the meaning of lesbians and homosexuals? That is the place where all different dungs collect. We have to end that behavior. When this kind of dirty relationship is taking place between human beings, God cannot be happy. That is what the secular world is like. As the lord of all creation, are we seeking that kind of world?

"As human beings, we should mobilize our forty billion cells and clean up these dirty places. Would you women want this dirty dung-filled water to be poured over you? What about men, do you want to be soaked in that kind of dirty water? Only Satan and dirty dung-eating dogs go after that."

"There will be a purge on God's orders, and evil will be eliminated like shadows. Gays will be eliminated, the 3 Israels will unite. If not then they will be burned. We do not know what kind of world God will bring but this is what happens. It will be greater than the communist purge but at God's orders."

2. Yahya Abdul-Aziz Jemus Junkung Jammeh, President of Gambia
Religion: Muslim

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/outward/2015/05/13/jammeh_of_gambia_tells_gay_men_i_will_slit_your_th roat/rtr41ddj.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.jpg

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/05/13/jammeh_of_gambia_tells_gay_men_i_will_slit_your_th roat.html


If you do it [in the Gambia] I will slit your throat — if you are a man and want to marry another man in this country and we catch you, no one will ever set eyes on you again, and no white person can do anything about it.

Iron Chef Yahya bringing the pain. Bonus butthurt in the actual Slate article where the Slate authors work out their existential crisis by blaming colonialism. :lol:

3. Joseph Stalin
Religion: Atheist
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/CroppedStalin1943.jpg/220px-CroppedStalin1943.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_homosexuality

Stalin was a bad man, but even he had is good side:


In 1933, Joseph Stalin added Article 121 to the entire Soviet Union criminal code, which made male homosexuality a crime punishable by up to five years in prison with hard labor. The precise reason for Article 121 is in some dispute among historians. The few official government statements made about the law tended to confuse homosexuality with pedophilia and was tied up with a belief that homosexuality was only practiced among fascists or the aristocracy.

4. Dolce and Gabanna
Religion: I dunno
http://www.fashion-forum.org/images/designers/dolce-gabbana.jpg
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-16/elton-john-slams-dolce-and-gabbana/6321634

A pair of honest gays who don't want to destroy the family just to make themselves feel better. Bonus point for sending progressive gays up the wall:


Italian magazine Panorama's website last week quoted Sicily-born Dolce, whose brand has long counted Madonna and Naomi Campbell among clients for its designs inspired by his native island, as saying: "You are born and you have a father and a mother."

5.Hebrew Israelites
Not really a person but they're a group of racist black people who think they're the REAL Jews and spend a lot of their time street preaching at white liberals, Jews, transsexuals, etc, all of which tend to be easily trolled. I can't be bothered to check videos for swearing but it's easy enough to find videos of them making all these people cry (literally).

pancreasman
05-14-2015, 12:15 AM
1. Rev. Sun Myung Moon,
Religion: Thinks he's the Second Jesus
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Rev._Sun_Myung_Moon_speaks%2C_Las_Vegas%2C_NV%2C_U SA_on_April_4%2C_2010.png/220px-Rev._Sun_Myung_Moon_speaks%2C_Las_Vegas%2C_NV%2C_U SA_on_April_4%2C_2010.png
While I don't believe the guy is Jesus, and is probably a charlatan and/or nutjob, he is also a master class troll: (https://www.change.org/p/anti-defamation-league-officially-label-rev-sun-myung-moon-an-antisemite-and-a-homophobe?recruiter=26677911&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive)



2. Yahya Abdul-Aziz Jemus Junkung Jammeh, President of Gambia
Religion: Muslim

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/outward/2015/05/13/jammeh_of_gambia_tells_gay_men_i_will_slit_your_th roat/rtr41ddj.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.jpg

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/05/13/jammeh_of_gambia_tells_gay_men_i_will_slit_your_th roat.html



Iron Chef Yahya bringing the pain. Bonus butthurt in the actual Slate article where the Slate authors work out their existential crisis by blaming colonialism. :lol:

3. Joseph Stalin
Religion: Atheist
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/CroppedStalin1943.jpg/220px-CroppedStalin1943.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_homosexuality

Stalin was a bad man, but even he had is good side:



4. Dolce and Gabanna
Religion: I dunno
http://www.fashion-forum.org/images/designers/dolce-gabbana.jpg
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-16/elton-john-slams-dolce-and-gabbana/6321634

A pair of honest gays who don't want to destroy the family just to make themselves feel better. Bonus point for sending progressive gays up the wall:



5.Hebrew Israelites
Not really a person but they're a group of racist black people who think they're the REAL Jews and spend a lot of their time street preaching at white liberals, Jews, transsexuals, etc, all of which tend to be easily trolled. I can't be bothered to check videos for swearing but it's easy enough to find videos of them making all these people cry (literally).

I'm going to ask you not to post in this again, DE.

Darth Ovious
05-14-2015, 02:25 AM
I was just about to post a popcorn smilie and say "don't mind me, I'm just waiting for the thread to explode" but you've now taken away the fun.

shunyadragon
05-14-2015, 05:09 AM
In my life these people go beyond respect in my life.


1. Dr. Daniel C. Jordon - A Baha'i Educator and developed the Anisa model of Education. Dean of School of Education at National University in San Diego. Assassinated by Islamic extremists by ritual sword in New York in 1982.

2. Louis George Gregory - 1874-1951 Black Baha'i and Hand of the Cause of God from South Carolina. As a youth witnessed lynchings of family members and lived with the brutal treatment of blacks in South Carolina. Despite problems he became educated getting a Law degree at Howard University in Washington DC.

3. Abdul'baha (Servant of God). 1844-1921. Eldest son of Abdul'baha. The Paul of the Baha'i Faith, traveling the west introducing the Baha'i Faith to the western world.

4. Mona Mahmudnizhad - 1965-1983. Persian teacher, Baha'i young woman martyred in Iran for her belief in the Baha'i Faith. she is one of hundreds of Baha'is martyred in Iran in the past 50 years.

Sea of red
05-14-2015, 06:05 AM
1. Rev. Sun Myung Moon,
Religion: Thinks he's the Second Jesus
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Rev._Sun_Myung_Moon_speaks%2C_Las_Vegas%2C_NV%2C_U SA_on_April_4%2C_2010.png/220px-Rev._Sun_Myung_Moon_speaks%2C_Las_Vegas%2C_NV%2C_U SA_on_April_4%2C_2010.png
While I don't believe the guy is Jesus, and is probably a charlatan and/or nutjob, he is also a master class troll: (https://www.change.org/p/anti-defamation-league-officially-label-rev-sun-myung-moon-an-antisemite-and-a-homophobe?recruiter=26677911&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=share_twitter_responsive)



2. Yahya Abdul-Aziz Jemus Junkung Jammeh, President of Gambia
Religion: Muslim

http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/blogs/outward/2015/05/13/jammeh_of_gambia_tells_gay_men_i_will_slit_your_th roat/rtr41ddj.jpg.CROP.promo-mediumlarge.jpg

http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2015/05/13/jammeh_of_gambia_tells_gay_men_i_will_slit_your_th roat.html



Iron Chef Yahya bringing the pain. Bonus butthurt in the actual Slate article where the Slate authors work out their existential crisis by blaming colonialism. :lol:

3. Joseph Stalin
Religion: Atheist
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/9b/CroppedStalin1943.jpg/220px-CroppedStalin1943.jpg
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_homosexuality

Stalin was a bad man, but even he had is good side:



4. Dolce and Gabanna
Religion: I dunno
http://www.fashion-forum.org/images/designers/dolce-gabbana.jpg
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-03-16/elton-john-slams-dolce-and-gabbana/6321634

A pair of honest gays who don't want to destroy the family just to make themselves feel better. Bonus point for sending progressive gays up the wall:



5.Hebrew Israelites
Not really a person but they're a group of racist black people who think they're the REAL Jews and spend a lot of their time street preaching at white liberals, Jews, transsexuals, etc, all of which tend to be easily trolled. I can't be bothered to check videos for swearing but it's easy enough to find videos of them making all these people cry (literally).
Have you thought about researching mental-illness in your family history?

Sea of red
05-14-2015, 06:07 AM
One person that sticks out in particular, that I respect as both a scientist and a human is Francis Collins.

shunyadragon
05-14-2015, 06:11 AM
Corrected post

In my life these people go beyond respect.


1. Dr. Daniel C. Jordon - A Baha'i Educator and developed the Anisa model of Education. Dean of School of Education at National University in San Diego. Assassinated by Islamic extremists by ritual sword in New York in 1982.

2. Louis George Gregory - 1874-1951 Black Baha'i and Hand of the Cause of God from South Carolina. As a youth witnessed lynchings of family members and lived with the terror and brutal treatment of blacks in South Carolina. Despite problems he became educated getting a Law degree at Howard University in Washington DC.

3. Abdul'baha (Servant of God). 1844-1921. Eldest son of Baha'u'llah. The Paul of the Baha'i Faith, traveling the west introducing the Baha'i Faith to the western world.

4. Mona Mahmudnizhad - 1965-1983. Persian teacher, Baha'i young woman martyred in Iran for her belief in the Baha'i Faith. she is one of hundreds of Baha'is martyred in Iran in the past 50 years.[/QUOTE]

Adrift
05-14-2015, 06:17 AM
Corrected post

In my life these people go beyond respect.


1. Dr. Daniel C. Jordon - A Baha'i Educator and developed the Anisa model of Education. Dean of School of Education at National University in San Diego. Assassinated by Islamic extremists by ritual sword in New York in 1982.

2. Louis George Gregory - 1874-1951 Black Baha'i and Hand of the Cause of God from South Carolina. As a youth witnessed lynchings of family members and lived with the brutal treatment of blacks in South Carolina. Despite problems he became educated getting a Law degree at Howard University in Washington DC.

3. Abdul'baha (Servant of God). 1844-1921. Eldest son of Baha'u'llah. The Paul of the Baha'i Faith, traveling the west introducing the Baha'i Faith to the western world.

4. Mona Mahmudnizhad - 1965-1983. Persian teacher, Baha'i young woman martyred in Iran for her belief in the Baha'i Faith. she is one of hundreds of Baha'is martyred in Iran in the past 50 years.

These are people who DON'T share your beliefs? I thought you claimed to be a Baha'i. I mean, if you're now claiming that you're not, that would make a lot of sense.

shunyadragon
05-14-2015, 06:27 AM
These are people who DON'T share your beliefs? I thought you claimed to be a Baha'i. I mean, if you're now claiming that you're not, that would make a lot of sense.

Sorry! Misread the opening post. I will resubmit a different list.

Adrift
05-14-2015, 07:06 AM
1. Orthodox Jewish scholar Pinchas Lapide. Though he was not a Christian, he believed that Christianity made important inroads to pagan Gentiles accepting the Jewish God. He also believed that Jesus is the Messiah to the Gentiles and that it is possible that Jesus will be the Messiah to the Jews in his second coming.

2. The popular Rabbi and kabbalist, Yitzhak Kaduri, who, before his death, claimed to have had visions of the Messiah, and who promised to reveal the Messiah's name upon his death. He hand wrote a note and gave it to his followers, but in keeping with custom, they were not to open it until a year after his death. The note read, Concerning the letter abbreviation of the Messiah’s name, He will lift the people and prove that his word and law are valid. This I have signed in the month of mercy, Yitzhak Kaduri. The acronym spelled out the the Hebrew name of Jesus יהושוע . It caused a major outroar among his family and followers.

3. Pier Paolo Pasolini. He was an openly gay, Marxist, atheist who was seemingly obsessed with God and religion, and created my favorite movie about Jesus ever, The Gospel According To St. Matthew. He also created the incendiary Salo, so maybe the two films cancel one another out.

4. Transcendental Meditation advocate and and surrealist director David Lynch. His insights into the human condition are amazing to me. I see a lot of spiritual elements in his films that I don't think he himself is aware of.

Hmm...I don't know. This is too hard. I don't have a mental rolodex of all of the people who are not Christian that I respect. The list, I'm sure, is humongous. I'll try to add more if/when they come to mind.

Rational Gaze
05-14-2015, 07:18 AM
Stalin was a bad man, but even he had is good side
6418

fm93
05-14-2015, 08:14 AM
1. Rany Jazayerli. As his Twitter bio explains, "Dermatologist by day, sportswriter by night. I write baseball columns for Grantland. Proud to be a Muslim. Proud to be a Royals fan." His baseball analyses are excellent, but more importantly, he's just an all-around great human being. Although he's primarily known for his sportswriting, my two favorite pieces by him have nothing to do with sports--those would be this (http://grantland.com/features/ender-game-controversial-author-very-personal-history/) fantastic article recounting his experiences and insights with Ender's Game, Orson Scott Card, growing up as a white Muslim in America, and learning the so-often-ignored-but-most-critically-needed quality of empathy, and this (http://www.ranyontheroyals.com/2012/11/the-gop-and-me.html) equally wonderful article about his experiences as an American Muslim in the aftermath of 9/11, and how he and his fellow Muslims were so frequently demonized by the political party that they'd once fervently supported. They're long reads, but they're also completely worth it. In them, he exhibits an ability that's far too often absent on this site--the ability to disagree with and condemn something while also acknowledging the good aspects, and trying to not run away from them, but to seek unity and peace. I'm convinced that if everyone on this site read his writing, all the silly comments in the Civics section about the dangers of Islam and same-sex marriage and so many other things would never have been made.

2. Andrew Klavan. Apparently there's a conception among some liberal communities that conservatives aren't funny. While people who identify as conservative can certainly be funny in things pertaining to daily life, I do have to agree that generally when conservatives try to be funny while attacking certain political views, they almost always fail at it, in part because they do a poor job of even representing the said views correctly. Usually, someone who doesn't actually know what concepts like white privilege entail tries some lame attempt at a satirical critique at it and it just amounts to throwing around a bunch of buzzwords that he/she clearly doesn't understand. Klavan, however, is different. Take this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLr2if-BdA4), for instance. There are also flaws and issues with representation here, but he somehow manages to be genuinely hilarious in this. Kudos, Klavan.

3. I agree with you on CS Lewis. CS Lewis is great.

One Bad Pig
05-14-2015, 10:14 AM
1. Binyamin Jolkovsky, editor of the Jewish World Review
2. bandecoot - I really, really miss his input here.
3. sylas
4. David Flusser, who was a Jewish scholar of early Christianity

pancreasman
05-14-2015, 06:05 PM
1. Binyamin Jolkovsky, editor of the Jewish World Review
2. bandecoot - I really, really miss his input here.
3. sylas
4. David Flusser, who was a Jewish scholar of early Christianity

This is a good thing, naming people who post here. We are kind to our opponents far less than we should be. For me, I admire and respect:

1. CP
2. Adrift
3.Catholicity
4. John Reece
5. Leonhard

There are a few others whose names momentarily escape me.

shunyadragon
05-14-2015, 07:48 PM
sylas

MaxVel
05-14-2015, 08:17 PM
There are a few others whose names momentarily escape me.


:yipee: :joy:

Adrift
05-14-2015, 08:24 PM
This is a good thing, naming people who post here. We are kind to our opponents far less than we should be. For me, I admire and respect:

1. CP
2. Adrift
3.Catholicity
4. John Reece
5. Leonhard

There are a few others whose names momentarily escape me.

I can live with being number 2. :teeth:

shunyadragon
05-15-2015, 09:31 AM
jaecp

Yttrium
05-15-2015, 09:46 AM
Colin Powell. I wish he could have been president.
Pope Francis. He seems like a swell guy.
George H.W. Bush. (His son George, not so much.)
Barack Obama. No, really. I don't agree with some of his policies, but he's got his good points.
Anthony Kennedy. Supreme Court swing voter.

DesertBerean
05-16-2015, 08:33 PM
I respect sylas.

Cow Poke
05-17-2015, 04:37 AM
Colin Powell.

That's who Pman was referring to when he listed CP as #1. :smile:

Raphael
05-17-2015, 04:43 AM
I respect sylas.

I think you would be hard pressed to find any TWebber, who even if they are in complete disagreement with him so not respect Sylas.
He a good bloke. And I have the utmost respect for him

Roy
05-17-2015, 06:45 AM
Jim (oxmixmudd)

hamster
05-17-2015, 08:00 AM
Hawkgirl