Help! 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4

[JSDileo]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan

2 Thessalonians 2
The Man of Lawlessness
1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God

How does fit into the preterist view of eschatology? Just wondering.

[Hitch]

2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan

2 Thessalonians 2
The Man of Lawlessness
1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God

How does fit into the preterist view of eschatology? Just wondering.The process in view is the final and complete seperation of the natural Nation (Israel) from the Kigdom of God. A common trouble with this passage is the term 'gathering'. This is ofent associated with the rapture but here it is more likely a reference to the official sanction of the church ,by God, as His sole heir and fellowship on earth. The Kingdom, as Christ prophecied is being taken from the jews. The removal of any semblence of godliness in Israel is demonstrated by the power and force exihibited by a pagan ruler taking over the city and Temple. This cannot be done outside of God's perfect control and it was accomplished through what Jesus called parabolically 'his armies' Mat 22;7. Paul is telling the Thessolonians that the final days of Israel are very near and the pagans will take over the city and even the Temple,then the church becomes the only focus.

Take care

H

[bar Jonah]

How does fit into the preterist view of eschatology? Just wondering.
It doesn't. There's nothing whatsoever in this context about Israel or the Jews. It is written to Gentile followers of Paul.

The "falling away" in verse 3 makes no reference to sin or what we today would call "apostasy." It simply means departure. In fact, the verb form of this word can be found in Luke 22:41, Acts 12:10, Acts 21:1, 1 Timothy 6:5 and 2 Timothy 2:19, referring to people departing. And in the last of those, it actually refers to a departure from iniquity! Additionally, this isn't simply "departure," but rather it has a definite article, thus referring to "the departure."

That day will not come until The Departure.

Not only that, but the grammar in that sentence is anaphoric, meaning it is referring to something previously mentioned by Paul. But he mentions nothing about any kind of departure (or some event of great iniquity) before that in 2 Thessalonians. And he makes no reference to some future event of great apostasy in 1 Thessalonians either.

He does however, make reference to a very notable departure at the end of 1 Thessalonians, chapters 4 and 5. Here, Paul talks about the future hope of believers.

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
The "caught up" here is the same word used to describe how Phillip was whisked away in Acts 8. It is also used twice to describe how Paul was taken up into heaven, in 2 Corinthians 12! Talk about a precedent. Other references indicate that this has a connotation of being "snatched up."

And we will meet the Lord in the air. This is not the Second Coming, in which Christ will come down to earth. We'll meet Him in the air, and then we'll spend eternity with Him.

Then, of course, Paul continues by explaining how this hope relates to the fact that we'll be spared the wrath to come, but the "they" will not. God did not appoint us to the wrath to come. Which I would suggest is the Tribulation, of course, but that's a whole other conversation.

Back in Thessalonians 2, Paul therefore speaks "concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him," and assures his readers that the day of the Lord is not now present. References to "the day of Christ" or "the day of the Lord" are references to the tribulation period promised to Israel. He explains "that day will not come unless The Departure comes first, and the man of perdition is revealed, who exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." And so on.

[John Reece]

[...]

The "falling away" in verse 3 makes no reference to sin or what we today would call "apostasy." It simply means departure. In fact, the verb form of this word can be found in Luke 22:41, Acts 12:10, Acts 21:1, 1 Timothy 6:5 and 2 Timothy 2:19, referring to people departing. And in the last of those, it actually refers to a departure from iniquity! Additionally, this isn't simply "departure," but rather it has a definite article, thus referring to "the departure."

That day will not come until The Departure.

[...]

The Greek word in question is apostasia (apostasia).

Here is an example of biblical usage of that word:

21 Then the people of Reuben, the people of Gad, and the half-tribe of Manasseh said in answer to the heads of the families of Israel, 22 "The Mighty One, God, the LORD! The Mighty One, God, the LORD! He knows; and let Israel itself know! If it was in rebellion [Hebrew: mRD (mered); LXX: apostasia (apostasia)] or in breach of faith against the LORD, do not spare us today 23 for building an altar to turn away from following the LORD. Or if we did so to offer burnt offerings or grain offerings or peace offerings on it, may the LORD himself take vengeance. 24 No, but we did it from fear that in time to come your children might say to our children, 'What have you to do with the LORD, the God of Israel? 25 For the LORD has made the Jordan a boundary between us and you, you people of Reuben and people of Gad. You have no portion in the LORD.' So your children might make our children cease to worship the LORD. 26 Therefore we said, 'Let us now build an altar, not for burnt offering, nor for sacrifice, 27 but to be a witness between us and you, and between our generations after us, that we do perform the service of the LORD in his presence with our burnt offerings and sacrifices and peace offerings, so your children will not say to our children in time to come, "You have no portion in the LORD."' 28 And we thought, If this should be said to us or to our descendants in time to come, we should say, 'Behold, the copy of the altar of the LORD, which our fathers made, not for burnt offerings, nor for sacrifice, but to be a witness between us and you.' 29 Far be it from us that we should rebel against the LORD and turn away this day from following the LORD by building an altar for burnt offering, grain offering, or sacrifice, other than the altar of the LORD our God that stands before his tabernacle!"

The Greek word apostasia (apostasia) is a rendering of the Hebrew word mRD (mered) which means ‘rebellion’; the verb cognate means ‘revolt’, ‘rebel’. That meaning is confirmed by the usage in the context of Joshua 22.

Another example of biblical usage:

Hezekiah Cleanses the Temple

[. . .]

12 Then the Levites arose, Mahath the son of Amasai, and Joel the son of Azariah, of the sons of the Kohathites; and of the sons of Merari, Kish the son of Abdi, and Azariah the son of Jehallelel; and of the Gershonites, Joah the son of Zimmah, and Eden the son of Joah; 13 and of the sons of Elizaphan, Shimri and Jeuel; and of the sons of Asaph, Zechariah and Mattaniah; 14 and of the sons of Heman, Jehuel and Shimei; and of the sons of Jeduthun, Shemaiah and Uzziel. 15 They gathered their brothers and consecrated themselves and went in as the king had commanded, by the words of the LORD, to cleanse the house of the LORD. 16 The priests went into the inner part of the house of the LORD to cleanse it, and they brought out all the uncleanness that they found in the temple of the LORD into the court of the house of the LORD. And the Levites took it and carried it out to the brook Kidron. 17 They began to consecrate on the first day of the first month, and on the eighth day of the month they came to the vestibule of the LORD. Then for eight days they consecrated the house of the LORD, and on the sixteenth day of the first month they finished. 18 Then they went in to Hezekiah the king and said, "We have cleansed all the house of the LORD, the altar of burnt offering and all its utensils, and the table for the showbread and all its utensils. 19 All the utensils that King Ahaz discarded in his reign when he was faithless [hebrew]Bm(LW[/font] (‘in his faithlessness’); LXX en th apostasia (‘in his apostasia’)], we have made ready and consecrated, and behold, they are before the altar of the LORD."

In the context above, apostasia (apostasia) is a rendering of the Hebrew word m(L (ma‘al) meaning ‘unfaithfulness’ (always against God).

Another OT occurrence:

Israel Forsakes the LORD

1 The word of the LORD came to me, saying, 2 "Go and proclaim in the hearing of Jerusalem, Thus says the LORD,
"I remember the devotion of your youth,
your love as a bride,
how you followed me in the wilderness,
in a land not sown.
3 Israel was holy to the LORD,
the firstfruits of his harvest.
All who ate of it incurred guilt;
disaster came upon them,
declares the LORD."
4 Hear the word of the LORD, O house of Jacob, and all the clans of the house of Israel. 5 Thus says the LORD:

[. . .]

19 Your evil will chastise you,
and your apostasy [hebrew]m$WBH[/font] (meshuvah); LXX: apostasia (apostasia)] will reprove you.
Know and see that it is evil and bitter
for you to forsake the LORD your God;
the fear of me is not in you,
declares the Lord GOD of hosts.

The sense of the Hebrew word rendered apostasia (apostasia) in verse 19 is an (act of) faithlessness, defection, apostasy.

Here is the only other-than-Thessalonians-2:3 occurrence in the NT:

Paul Visits James

17 When we had come to Jerusalem, the brothers received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 After greeting them, he related one by one the things that God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry. 20 And when they heard it, they glorified God. And they said to him, "You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed. They are all zealous for the law, 21 and they have been told about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses [apostasia ... apo MwüsewV], telling them not to circumcise their children or walk according to our customs. 22 What then is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come. 23 Do therefore what we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow; 24 take these men and purify yourself along with them and pay their expenses, so that they may shave their heads. Thus all will know that there is nothing in what they have been told about you, but that you yourself also live in observance of the law. 25 But as for the Gentiles who have believed, we have sent a letter with our judgment that they should abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols, and from blood, and from what has been strangled, and from sexual immorality." 26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.

A literal rendering of the Greek words in verse 21 is ‘apostasia (apostasia) … from Moses. The sense is ‘a departure from the teaching of Moses’.

The sense of the word apostasia (apostasia) in the Greek texts of the OT and NT is always and only as defined by BDAG:

apostasia : defiance of established system or authority, rebellion, abandonment, breach of faith Acts 21:21; 1 Thessalonians 2:3

[kaine diatheke]

It doesn't. There's nothing whatsoever in this context about Israel or the Jews. It is written to Gentile followers of Paul.

The "falling away" in verse 3 makes no reference to sin or what we today would call "apostasy." It simply means departure. In fact, the verb form of this word can be found in Luke 22:41, Acts 12:10, Acts 21:1, 1 Timothy 6:5 and 2 Timothy 2:19, referring to people departing. And in the last of those, it actually refers to a departure from iniquity! Additionally, this isn't simply "departure," but rather it has a definite article, thus referring to "the departure."

That day will not come until The Departure.

Not only that, but the grammar in that sentence is anaphoric, meaning it is referring to something previously mentioned by Paul. But he mentions nothing about any kind of departure (or some event of great iniquity) before that in 2 Thessalonians. And he makes no reference to some future event of great apostasy in 1 Thessalonians either.

He does however, make reference to a very notable departure at the end of 1 Thessalonians, chapters 4 and 5. Here, Paul talks about the future hope of believers.

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
The "caught up" here is the same word used to describe how Phillip was whisked away in Acts 8. It is also used twice to describe how Paul was taken up into heaven, in 2 Corinthians 12! Talk about a precedent. Other references indicate that this has a connotation of being "snatched up."

And we will meet the Lord in the air. This is not the Second Coming, in which Christ will come down to earth. We'll meet Him in the air, and then we'll spend eternity with Him.

Then, of course, Paul continues by explaining how this hope relates to the fact that we'll be spared the wrath to come, but the "they" will not. God did not appoint us to the wrath to come. Which I would suggest is the Tribulation, of course, but that's a whole other conversation.

Back in Thessalonians 2, Paul therefore speaks "concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him," and assures his readers that the day of the Lord is not now present. References to "the day of Christ" or "the day of the Lord" are references to the tribulation period promised to Israel. He explains "that day will not come unless The Departure comes first, and the man of perdition is revealed, who exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." And so on.


Hello bar jonah. I would like to respond to your previous post if you don't mind. I'm not being belligerent, just presenting an alternative view. Consider the context of 2 Thess. 2:

God is just: He will pay back trouble to those who trouble you and give relief to you who are troubled, and to us as well. This will happen when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven in blazing fire with his powerful angels. He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus. They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of His power on the day He comes to be glorified in His holy people and to be marveled at among those who have believed. 2 Thess. 1:6-10

Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him.

It appears that our gathering to the Lord will occur on the same day that the unbelieving are punished. Also, on the same day the man of sin/lawlessness is destroyed:

And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of His mouth and destroy by the splendor of His coming 2 Thess. 2:8

All three events it appears: our gathering to the Lord (the rapture if you will), the destruction of the wicked, and the destruction of the man of sin/lawlessness occur at the same time, the time of His coming according to Paul in 2 Thessalonians. In other words, I don't believe one can separate the rapture from the revelation.

Kaine Diatheke

[John Reece]

Here is a problem for a futuristic interpretation of the text in the 21st century:

The text says that “the man of lawlessness” … “takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.”

The temple referred to in the text was destroyed circa AD 70.

Many fantasize that the text must now refer to a temple to be built by Jews in the modern city of Jerusalem.

However, the text does not refer to such a fantasy; it refers to the temple that was standing when the text was written.

[eschaton]

Here is a problem for a futuristic interpretation of the text in the 21st century:

The text says that “the man of lawlessness” … “takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.”

The temple referred to in the text was destroyed circa AD 70.

Many fantasize that the text must now refer to a temple to be built by Jews in the modern city of Jerusalem.

However, the text does not refer to such a fantasy; it refers to the temple that was standing when the text was written.

I would like to remind how the early Christians understood these things. In the Epistle of Barnabas, written in the late first or early second century:

...Let us inquire, then, if there still is a temple of God. There is-where He himself declared He would make and finish it. For it is written, "And it shall come to pass, when the week is completed, the temple of God shall be built in glory in the name of the Lord."235 I find, therefore, that a temple does exist. Learn, then, how it shall be built in the name of the Lord. Before we believed in God, the habitation of our heart was corrupt and weak, as being indeed like a temple made with hands. For it was full of idolatry, and was a habitation of demons, through our doing such things as were opposed to [the will of] God. But it shall be built, observe ye, in the name of the Lord, in order that the temple of the Lord may be built in glory. How? Learn [as follows]. Having received the forgiveness of sins, and placed our trust in the name of the Lord, we have become new creatures, formed again from the beginning. Wherefore in our habitation God truly dwells in us. How? His word of faith; His calling236 of promise; the wisdom of the statutes; the commands of the doctrine; He himself prophesying in us; He himself dwelling in us; opening to us who were enslaved by death the doors of the temple, that is, the mouth; and by giving us repentance introduced us into the incorruptible temple.237 He then, who wishes to be saved, looks not to man,238 but to Him who dwelleth in him, and speaketh in him, amazed at never having either heard him utter such words with his mouth, nor himself having ever desired to hear them.239 This is the spiritual temple built for the Lord.

Augustine later wrote in the City of God book XX:

I see that I must omit many of the statements of the gospels and epistles about this last judgment, that this volume may not become unduly long; but I can on no account omit what the Apostle Paul says, in writing to the Thessalonians, "We beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ," etc.
No one can doubt that he wrote this of Antichrist and of the day of judgment, which he here calls the day of the Lord, nor that he declared that this day should not come unless he first came who is called the apostate -apostate, to wit, from the Lord God. And if this may justly be said of all the ungodly, how much more of him? But it is uncertain in what temple he shall sit, whether in that ruin of the temple which was built by Solomon, or in the Church; for the apostle would not call the temple of any idol or demon the temple of God. And on this account some think that in this passage Antichrist means not the prince himself alone, but his whole body, that is, the mass of men who adhere to him, along with him their prince; and they also think that we should render the Greek more exactly were we to read, not "in the temple of God," but "for" or "as the temple of God," as if he himself were the temple of God, the Church...

[Hitch]

Here is a problem for a futuristic interpretation of the text in the 21st century:

The text says that “the man of lawlessness” … “takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.”

The temple referred to in the text was destroyed circa AD 70.

Many fantasize that the text must now refer to a temple to be built by Jews in the modern city of Jerusalem.

However, the text does not refer to such a fantasy; it refers to the temple that was standing when the text was written.

Perf!

H

[David_A_Reed]

Interestingly, Luther referred to the papacy and Islam as the two "legs" of the Antichrist, and Calvin referred to them as the two "horns" of Antichrist. The pope "sat down" in the spiritual Temple, the Church, while Islam sat down in God's place on Temple Mount.

David

[A Cup of No]

Here is a problem for a futuristic interpretation of the text in the 21st century:

The text says that “the man of lawlessness” … “takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God.”

The temple referred to in the text was destroyed circa AD 70.

Many fantasize that the text must now refer to a temple to be built by Jews in the modern city of Jerusalem.

However, the text does not refer to such a fantasy; it refers to the temple that was standing when the text was written.

I definitely agree with you, but could you propose a first-century candidate that filled this spot?

[John Reece]

I definitely agree with you, but could you propose a first-century candidate that filled this spot?

No.

After repeatedly re-reading the Greek text of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 — from time to time over a period of nearly two decades — I came to the conclusion that there is not enough evidence presented in the text to identify ‘a first-century candidate that filled this spot’.

However, I know my limitations as a mere reader of the Bible, so I always seek out the best scholars to see what they say about difficult passages.

D. A. Carson is a premillennialist who (in the 1980’s) put me onto the preterist perspective expounded by R. T. France in Jesus and the Old Testament.

Ever since then I have depended on Carson for Greek New Testament commentary recommendations.

In the fifth edition (2001) of his New Testament Commentary Survey Carson wrote this: “The best all-around commentary on the Greek text of 1 and 2 Thessalonians is now that of Charles A. Wanamaker (NIGTC).”

With regard to 2 Thess. 2:3f, here is an excerpt from Wanamaker’s commentary:

In order to maintain the continuing validity of the passage, some deny the obvious reference to the historical temple in Jerusalem, as does Marshall (191f.; he mentions others who do so for less plausible reasons than his own).

A more straightforward way of treating the problem is to admit that the passage meant something very different to Paul and his original readers than it can mean for us today.

Wanamaker’s statement that in 2 Thess 2:4 we have an “obvious reference to the historical temple in Jerusalem” is supported by the fact that BDAG (the preeminent lexicon for NT Greek exegesis) slots the occurrence of the word rendered ‘temple’ in 2 Thess 2:4 as a reference to the historical temple in Jerusalem.

[maudman]

I would like to remind how the early Christians understood these things. In the Epistle of Barnabas, written in the late first or early second century:

...Let us inquire, then, if there still is a temple of God. There is-where He himself declared He would make and finish it. For it is written, "And it shall come to pass, when the week is completed, the temple of God shall be built in glory in the name of the Lord."235 I find, therefore, that a temple does exist. Learn, then, how it shall be built in the name of the Lord. Before we believed in God, the habitation of our heart was corrupt and weak, as being indeed like a temple made with hands. For it was full of idolatry, and was a habitation of demons, through our doing such things as were opposed to [the will of] God. But it shall be built, observe ye, in the name of the Lord, in order that the temple of the Lord may be built in glory. How? Learn [as follows]. Having received the forgiveness of sins, and placed our trust in the name of the Lord, we have become new creatures, formed again from the beginning. Wherefore in our habitation God truly dwells in us. How? His word of faith; His calling236 of promise; the wisdom of the statutes; the commands of the doctrine; He himself prophesying in us; He himself dwelling in us; opening to us who were enslaved by death the doors of the temple, that is, the mouth; and by giving us repentance introduced us into the incorruptible temple.237 He then, who wishes to be saved, looks not to man,238 but to Him who dwelleth in him, and speaketh in him, amazed at never having either heard him utter such words with his mouth, nor himself having ever desired to hear them.239 This is the spiritual temple built for the Lord.

Augustine later wrote in the City of God book XX:

I see that I must omit many of the statements of the gospels and epistles about this last judgment, that this volume may not become unduly long; but I can on no account omit what the Apostle Paul says, in writing to the Thessalonians, "We beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ," etc.
No one can doubt that he wrote this of Antichrist and of the day of judgment, which he here calls the day of the Lord, nor that he declared that this day should not come unless he first came who is called the apostate -apostate, to wit, from the Lord God. And if this may justly be said of all the ungodly, how much more of him? But it is uncertain in what temple he shall sit, whether in that ruin of the temple which was built by Solomon, or in the Church; for the apostle would not call the temple of any idol or demon the temple of God. And on this account some think that in this passage Antichrist means not the prince himself alone, but his whole body, that is, the mass of men who adhere to him, along with him their prince; and they also think that we should render the Greek more exactly were we to read, not "in the temple of God," but "for" or "as the temple of God," as if he himself were the temple of God, the Church...

Hello Eschaton:

This is an excellent post.

This is exactly what has happened and is happening as we speak. False Christians and deceived Christians thinking they can build a temple of God. False Christians (counterfeits) thinking they can build a world power for God. Yes this they do. They took the Ideologies and brainchild of men and built a Temple that exercises empirical power over the world. Yes, they preach a Gospel “Jesus is the Christ and deceive the many”. They resurrect a beast that had been splayed with a sword and breath into it life. And they say who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with it? And then they exercise all its power and say to the world “be like us”. They command its worship (Patriotism). They work techno miracles. Yes this they do. They make Fire Come down out of the sky in the sight of Men with their techno miracle wars. They cause all nations both rich and poor free and bond to make an image like unto it and they do it all in the name of the Lord. And their Princes and Prince rain over them as we speak. Christian were never commanded to build a temple of God, Christians are building the temple of the LORD. They’re not one and the same.

But a trap has been laid. Yes there is a trap in ZION! and they who are responsible are fixing to fall. All of them and when it is sprung there shall be great tribulation in the Free World. A time of darkness none shall escape. So dark that mentioning the name of Christ will bring swift reprisals (When you are hated by all nations for my names sake). All because of these counterfeit pieces of trash. Even true Christians will suffer. But we are told to remain faithful. And by the way nobody is gong anywhere.

When God springs the trap they shall wonder whose names are not written in the lamb’s book of life when they behold the beast that was and is not and yet does live. Yes in Zion God is going to reveal the Evil. Oh how terribly cleaver is God. Yes Swords will be sharpened and the blood shall flow.

Peace to you all.

[eschaton]

Thanks for the kind words maudman. That's an interesting interpretation you give.

[maudman]

Thanks for the kind words maudman. That's an interesting interpretation you give.

Your welcome!

[JSDileo]

Thanks for all your answers, folks.:smile:

[Hitch]

Hello Eschaton:

This is an excellent post.

This is exactly what has happened and is happening as we speak. False Christians and deceived Christians thinking they can build a temple of God. False Christians (counterfeits) thinking they can build a world power for God. Yes this they do. They took the Ideologies and brainchild of men and built a Temple that exercises empirical power over the world. Yes, they preach a Gospel “Jesus is the Christ and deceive the many”. They resurrect a beast that had been splayed with a sword and breath into it life. And they say who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with it? And then they exercise all its power and say to the world “be like us”. They command its worship (Patriotism). They work techno miracles. Yes this they do. They make Fire Come down out of the sky in the sight of Men with their techno miracle wars. They cause all nations both rich and poor free and bond to make an image like unto it and they do it all in the name of the Lord. And their Princes and Prince rain over them as we speak. Christian were never commanded to build a temple of God, Christians are building the temple of the LORD. They’re not one and the same.

But a trap has been laid. Yes there is a trap in ZION! and they who are responsible are fixing to fall. All of them and when it is sprung there shall be great tribulation in the Free World. A time of darkness none shall escape. So dark that mentioning the name of Christ will bring swift reprisals (When you are hated by all nations for my names sake). All because of these counterfeit pieces of trash. Even true Christians will suffer. But we are told to remain faithful. And by the way nobody is gong anywhere.

When God springs the trap they shall wonder whose names are not written in the lamb’s book of life when they behold the beast that was and is not and yet does live. Yes in Zion God is going to reveal the Evil. Oh how terribly cleaver is God. Yes Swords will be sharpened and the blood shall flow.

Peace to you all.'Be of good cheer I have overcome the world'

[maudman]

'Be of good cheer I have overcome the world'

Yes Hitch, He has overcome the world, Now its up to us. We must also overcome the world. If we believe? Then he will give us the strength to overcome. In our hour he will send the comforter.

Our preservation won't be determined by our knowledge or wisdom but the will of the Father and we can't be taken from his hands. We are preserved because he keeps and will keep the hour of temptation from us.


Peace Hitch

[Hitch]

Yes Hitch, He has overcome the world, Now its up to us. We must also overcome the world. If we believe? Then he will give us the strength to overcome. In our hour he will send the comforter.

Our preservation won't be determined by our knowledge or wisdom but the will of the Father and we can't be taken from his hands. We are preserved because he keeps and will keep the hour of temptation from us.


Peace HitchHe already sent the Comforter, but you sound liked a scared rabbit.

[maudman]

He already sent the Comforter, but you sound liked a scared rabbit.

Scared rabbit that's interesting. I guess you could read that into it. Is that because I previously posted something that sounds scary. And yes he has sent the comforter and he teaches me all things.

26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

May have been a poor choice of words on my part. The comforter is for our teaching and the rememberence of things. I used a word that in the scripture is one that carries with it that which pertains to knowledge that has been taught.

What I was saying was that there will be an hour when one needs comforting and it is the Lord that will comfort us.

Hitch when the Lord goes three times and pray's that if all possible the cup that is set before could pass and he is weeping with trembling and fear that the tears run with blood, our wisdom and knowledge means nothing when it comes to the tribulations that we may find before us.

There's not much room for "bravado". Apostle are sneeking and hiding not because they don't fear what can be done to them. We work out our salvation with trembling and fear of God. Although were told fear not that which can kill the body but to fear that which can kill both body and soul, There is fear most in certain countries just often hadn't had to face it.

But thats not been my experience in life. I have been in many fearful situations in my life and what I found out about most so call christians especially the ones that talk like they aren't scared of anything. They are the biggest chicken shits I ever met. True fear is the understanding our own weakness and being honest with ourselves. Peter denies christ three times out of fear and it had not thing to do with the comforter (knowledge) mentioned in the bible. He walked with our lord for over three years. When God Charges the laodacean to buy Gold tride in the fires of persecution. Their reward isn't going to come easy. Its going to involve fear my freind.

And I pray that I am found worthy to escape because its not knowledge that will keep that hour from me. I pray because I understand.

Peace Hitch

[Hitch]

Scared rabbit that's interesting. I guess you could read that into it. Is that because I previously posted something that sounds scary. And yes he has sent the comforter and he teaches me all things.

26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

May have been a poor choice of words on my part. The comforter is for our teaching and the rememberence of things. I used a word that in the scripture is one that carries with it that which pertains to knowledge that has been taught.

What I was saying was that there will be an hour when one needs comforting and it is the Lord that will comfort us.

Hitch when the Lord goes three times and pray's that if all possible the cup that is set before could pass and he is weeping with trembling and fear that the tears run with blood, our wisdom and knowledge means nothing when it comes to the tribulations that we may find before us.

There's not much room for "bravado". Apostle are sneeking and hiding not because they don't fear what can be done to them. We work out our salvation with trembling and fear of God. Although were told fear not that which can kill the body but to fear that which can kill both body and soul, There is fear most in certain countries just often hadn't had to face it.

But thats not been my experience in life. I have been in many fearful situations in my life and what I found out about most so call christians especially the ones that talk like they aren't scared of anything. They are the biggest chicken shits I ever met. True fear is the understanding our own weakness and being honest with ourselves. Peter denies christ three times out of fear and it had not thing to do with the comforter (knowledge) mentioned in the bible. He walked with our lord for over three years. When God Charges the laodacean to buy Gold tride in the fires of persecution. Their reward isn't going to come easy. Its going to involve fear my freind.

And I pray that I am found worthy to escape because its not knowledge that will keep that hour from me. I pray because I understand.

Peace HitchFirst of all clean up your language or post some where else. Second, is there some point to this emotional outburst?

[maudman]

First of all clean up your language or post some where else. Second, is there some point to this emotional outburst?

I had to leave you with something to critisize. There wasn't anything emotional about it. I typed it rather calmly. You accused me of sounding like a scared rabbit.

peace hitch

[Hitch]

I had to leave you with something to critisize. There wasn't anything emotional about it. I typed it rather calmly. You accused me of sounding like a scared rabbit.

peace hitchWhat I was saying was that there will be an hour when one needs comforting and it is the Lord that will comfort us.

Hitch when the Lord goes three times and pray's that if all possible the cup that is set before could pass and he is weeping with trembling and fear that the tears run with blood, our wisdom and knowledge means nothing when it comes to the tribulations that we may find before us.

There's not much room for "bravado". Apostle are sneeking and hiding not because they don't fear what can be done to them. We work out our salvation with trembling and fear of God. Although were told fear not that which can kill the body but to fear that which can kill both body and soul, There is fear most in certain countries just often hadn't had to face it.

But thats not been my experience in life. I have been in many fearful situations in my life and what I found out about most so call christians especially the ones that talk like they aren't scared of anything. They are the biggest chicken shits I ever met. True fear is the understanding our own weakness and being honest with ourselves. Peter denies christ three times out of fear and it had not thing to do with the comforter (knowledge) mentioned in the bible. He walked with our lord for over three years. When God Charges the laodacean to buy Gold tride in the fires of persecution. Their reward isn't going to come easy. Its going to involve fear my freind.

And I pray that I am found worthy to escape because its not knowledge that will keep that hour from me. I pray because I understand.


Nothing emotional about it? LOL Well its hardly a pillar of logic.

You addmitted your allusion to the Conforter was out of place.

Your mention of Pete's early fear has no bearing on anything.

Peter denies christ three times out of fear and it had not thing to do with the comforter (knowledge) mentioned in the bible. And this pertains to?


And what you're getting at bring up Gethsemane I cant grasp at all.

There is little here but emootion.


Take care

H

[maudman]

What I was saying was that there will be an hour when one needs comforting and it is the Lord that will comfort us.

Hitch when the Lord goes three times and pray's that if all possible the cup that is set before could pass and he is weeping with trembling and fear that the tears run with blood, our wisdom and knowledge means nothing when it comes to the tribulations that we may find before us.

There's not much room for "bravado". Apostle are sneeking and hiding not because they don't fear what can be done to them. We work out our salvation with trembling and fear of God. Although were told fear not that which can kill the body but to fear that which can kill both body and soul, There is fear most in certain countries just often hadn't had to face it.

But thats not been my experience in life. I have been in many fearful situations in my life and what I found out about most so call christians especially the ones that talk like they aren't scared of anything. They are the biggest chicken shits I ever met. True fear is the understanding our own weakness and being honest with ourselves. Peter denies christ three times out of fear and it had not thing to do with the comforter (knowledge) mentioned in the bible. He walked with our lord for over three years. When God Charges the laodacean to buy Gold tride in the fires of persecution. Their reward isn't going to come easy. Its going to involve fear my freind.

And I pray that I am found worthy to escape because its not knowledge that will keep that hour from me. I pray because I understand.


Nothing emotional about it? LOL Well its hardly a pillar of logic.

You addmitted your allusion to the Conforter was out of place.

Your mention of Pete's early fear has no bearing on anything.

Peter denies christ three times out of fear and it had not thing to do with the comforter (knowledge) mentioned in the bible. And this pertains to?


And what you're getting at bring up Gethsemane I cant grasp at all.

There is little here but emootion.


Take care

H

Hello Hitch

There isn’t anything emotional about my post. I don’t run around screaming the end of the world simply not my style. But it doesn’t mean I don’t study or engage in conversation or debate concerning the topic. I didn’t admit to any allusion that’s your take on what I have said. My reference to the comforter was simply a poor choice of words not because it was out of place but because of how it was perceived by certain persons or person.

I used a word that in the English language that is used as an expression of the inverse of a troubled spirit. I use the word comforter because is it what happens when the Lord brings into remembrance in our mind what he has said. When tribulation comes that voice will cause us to remember and because we believe, we are comforted. It is not something that is necessarily precursor to the tribulation event, just because it will dwell with us forever. It is with us always and constantly will remind us in tribulation. The tribulation event occurs and the comforter goes to work in us. This is simply something that happens. It also gives courage for those who see tribulation before it is going to happen.

What do these things pertain to you ask.

All my references of the events recorded in scripture pertain to and is directed at the spirit of Bravado in your statements. Like somehow I’m acting like a scared rabbit. You read with a spirit plain and simple as do we all. It just so happens that you have allowed yourself to become entwined with and interpretation that gives you Identity. You become the defender of what has become part of your faith and your language is such as one on the defensive. And what I say Hitch is purely relative to perspective. It may go contrary to yours and others doctrine.

The truth of what we all say will come on the day of the Lord. ON that day our Lord will show to the world who he has loved. That’s all there is to it. I don’t judge people. If you live by your faith then that is the first step, explaining it so others believe, that another thing all together. That’s the problem with debates. We become judgmental about others without truly knowing them. My neighbors have a different belief than myself, I’m sure. Our views would differ. But regardless of our views if my ox was in the ditch they would all be there because they see my Christianity without the doctrine.

Peace Hitch, take care.

[PaulT]

John,





The sense of the word apostasia (apostasia) in the Greek texts of the OT and NT is always and only as defined by BDAG:

apostasia : defiance of established system or authority, rebellion, abandonment, breach of faith Acts 21:21; 1 Thessalonians 2:3





It is truly a pleasure to read your sound, reasoned arguments, you are a blessing.



Paul

[Hitch]

Hello Hitch

There isn’t anything emotional about my post. I don’t run around screaming the end of the world simply not my style. But it doesn’t mean I don’t study or engage in conversation or debate concerning the topic. I didn’t admit to any allusion that’s your take on what I have said. My reference to the comforter was simply a poor choice of words not because it was out of place but because of how it was perceived by certain persons or person.

I used a word that in the English language that is used as an expression of the inverse of a troubled spirit. I use the word comforter because is it what happens when the Lord brings into remembrance in our mind what he has said. When tribulation comes that voice will cause us to remember and because we believe, we are comforted. It is not something that is necessarily precursor to the tribulation event, just because it will dwell with us forever. It is with us always and constantly will remind us in tribulation. The tribulation event occurs and the comforter goes to work in us. This is simply something that happens. It also gives courage for those who see tribulation before it is going to happen.

What do these things pertain to you ask.

All my references of the events recorded in scripture pertain to and is directed at the spirit of Bravado in your statements. Like somehow I’m acting like a scared rabbit. You read with a spirit plain and simple as do we all. It just so happens that you have allowed yourself to become entwined with and interpretation that gives you Identity. You become the defender of what has become part of your faith and your language is such as one on the defensive. And what I say Hitch is purely relative to perspective. It may go contrary to yours and others doctrine.




The truth of what we all say will come on the day of the Lord. ON that day our Lord will show to the world who he has loved. That’s all there is to it. I don’t judge people. If you live by your faith then that is the first step, explaining it so others believe, that another thing all together. That’s the problem with debates. We become judgmental about others without truly knowing them. My neighbors have a different belief than myself, I’m sure. Our views would differ. But regardless of our views if my ox was in the ditch they would all be there because they see my Christianity without the doctrine.

Peace Hitch, take care. Yawn ,,,A simple comment on style and content is judgemental only to the emotionally overcome.

[Hitch]

John,



[size=3]



It is truly a pleasure to read your sound, reasoned arguments, you are a blessing.



PaulHey stranger ,,how ya been?

[PaulT]

Hitch,

Hey stranger ,,how ya been?

Thanks for asking. I'm good, been busy with family matters for the past 6 months. My oldest is a HS Football player who wants to play in college. We've been real busy with getting information out and following up with prospective colleges. How you been doing?

Paul

[John Reece]

It is truly a pleasure to read your sound, reasoned arguments, you are a blessing.

Paul,

Thanks.

It’s a treat to hear from you.

Blessings,

John

[maudman]

What is the truth concerning the prophecies and their fulfillment. Well it all has to do with timing and both preterist and DF have failed in many ways simply because of time. Preterism annoyance with DF’s view of Israel as God chosen people is reason for concern. But the truth will benefit neither in either camp. Almost all views are false but it is time for the truth and it won’t be pretty. Yes you will know it is the truth not because it is typed before you but because of “Fear”. Yes it will be judgment that will cause many to see themselves as they are not a rapture. Yes the false Christ’s are soon to be exposed and there is going to be great tribulation. Yes the great falling away happened centuries ago and it is the Protestant Revolution.

Yes Christ reference to Israel as a fig tree with twigs that are yet tender was a prophecy but not because it would be a work that the Lord would be doing, because it would be the work of the Anti Christ or the Instead of Christ. It is the work of counterfeits seeking to exalt themselves at the vision of God in the name of Christ. Their failure will come about because they like Israel have no all knowledge of God. Yes the Protestants would raise up to himself a nice little Golden calf. And Preterism would have its part. Yes they would build themselves a promise land and preach a Gospel about Christ not the Gospel “of” Christ.

Yes in the name of the Lord they will build a Golden calf and with their “right hands on their hearts they will pledge their elegance and with their right hands upon their forehead the will salute and honor the golden calf. And they will commit to do its work. Yes this they do. Yes in their temples they preach about Christ but do they love their enemies no they blow them to smithereens. Yes they elect rulers to set over themselves. They say this is our will do its bidding. Yes they have resurrected the beast and they will surely come to their end. They set up a god built on the Ideologies and brainchild of men and they are fixing to pay for this Idolatry. God has laid a trap in Zion. Oh how terribly Cleaver is God.

[Hitch]

What is the truth concerning the prophecies and their fulfillment. Well it all has to do with timing and both preterist and DF have failed in many ways simply because of time. Preterism annoyance with DF’s view of Israel as God chosen people is reason for concern. But the truth will benefit neither in either camp. Almost all views are false but it is time for the truth and it won’t be pretty. Yes you will know it is the truth not because it is typed before you but because of “Fear”. Yes it will be judgment that will cause many to see themselves as they are not a rapture. Yes the false Christ’s are soon to be exposed and there is going to be great tribulation. Yes the great falling away happened centuries ago and it is the Protestant Revolution.

Yes Christ reference to Israel as a fig tree with twigs that are yet tender was a prophecy but not because it would be a work that the Lord would be doing, because it would be the work of the Anti Christ or the Instead of Christ. It is the work of counterfeits seeking to exalt themselves at the vision of God in the name of Christ. Their failure will come about because they like Israel have no all knowledge of God. Yes the Protestants would raise up to himself a nice little Golden calf. And Preterism would have its part. Yes they would build themselves a promise land and preach a Gospel about Christ not the Gospel “of” Christ.

Yes in the name of the Lord they will build a Golden calf and with their “right hands on their hearts they will pledge their elegance and with their right hands upon their forehead the will salute and honor the golden calf. And they will commit to do its work. Yes this they do. Yes in their temples they preach about Christ but do they love their enemies no they blow them to smithereens. Yes they elect rulers to set over themselves. They say this is our will do its bidding. Yes they have resurrected the beast and they will surely come to their end. They set up a god built on the Ideologies and brainchild of men and they are fixing to pay for this Idolatry. God has laid a trap in Zion. Oh how terribly Cleaver is God.LOL


YEA THUS SAITH THE HITCH,HE THAT PRETENDTH TO BE A PROPHET SHALL SURELY FIND HIS NAME NAM'ED AMONG THE IGNORED'TH

[A Cup of No]

No.

After repeatedly re-reading the Greek text of 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 — from time to time over a period of nearly two decades — I came to the conclusion that there is not enough evidence presented in the text to identify ‘a first-century candidate that filled this spot’.

However, I know my limitations as a mere reader of the Bible, so I always seek out the best scholars to see what they say about difficult passages.

D. A. Carson is a premillennialist who (in the 1980’s) put me onto the preterist perspective expounded by R. T. France in Jesus and the Old Testament.

Ever since then I have depended on Carson for Greek New Testament commentary recommendations.

In the fifth edition (2001) of his New Testament Commentary Survey Carson wrote this: “The best all-around commentary on the Greek text of 1 and 2 Thessalonians is now that of Charles A. Wanamaker (NIGTC).”

With regard to 2 Thess. 2:3f, here is an excerpt from Wanamaker’s commentary:

In order to maintain the continuing validity of the passage, some deny the obvious reference to the historical temple in Jerusalem, as does Marshall (191f.; he mentions others who do so for less plausible reasons than his own).

A more straightforward way of treating the problem is to admit that the passage meant something very different to Paul and his original readers than it can mean for us today.

Wanamaker’s statement that in 2 Thess 2:4 we have an “obvious reference to the historical temple in Jerusalem” is supported by the fact that BDAG (the preeminent lexicon for NT Greek exegesis) slots the occurrence of the word rendered ‘temple’ in 2 Thess 2:4 as a reference to the historical temple in Jerusalem.

Thanks for the reply. :thumb:

[maudman]

LOL


YEA THUS SAITH THE HITCH,HE THAT PRETENDTH TO BE A PROPHET SHALL SURELY FIND HIS NAME NAM'ED AMONG THE IGNORED'TH

Nope I don't make claims of being a prophet. Christians study prophecy Pauls mentions it is one of the many gifts in the church.

For what say the scripture thy sons and thy daughters shall prophesie. You don't have to be a prophet to understand prophecy. Its simply a matter hearing his voice. What saith the Lord. My sheep are those that hear my voice. Simple he (Christ) was the prophet. We hear his voice.

[John Reece]

I would like to remind how the early Christians understood these things. In the Epistle of Barnabas, written in the late first or early second century:

[. . . ]

Augustine later wrote in the City of God book XX:

[. . .]

According to Irenaeus, (V, 2, 4; 30, 4) and St. Hippolytus of Rome (Daniel, IV, 44: etc.) ‘the temple’ (naos) in 2 Thess. 2:4 was the one in Jerusalem.

The ‘early Christians’ were divided by differing opinions regarding many things, including the meaning of ‘the temple’ in the context of 2 Thess. 2:4.

The ‘early Christians’ were neither apostles nor prophets; they are not the ultimate arbiters of the true meaning of scripture.

[eschaton]

According to Irenaeus, (V, 2, 4; 30, 4) and St. Hippolytus of Rome (Daniel, IV, 44: etc.) ‘the temple’ (naos) in 2 Thess. 2:4 was the one in Jerusalem.

The ‘early Christians’ were divided by differing opinions regarding many things, including the meaning of ‘the temple’ in the context of 2 Thess. 2:4.

The ‘early Christians’ were neither apostles nor prophets; they are not the ultimate arbiters of the true meaning of scripture.

Hi John,

It's true that the early Christian were not united on every opinion. If they were it would make it much easier for us today wouldn't it? In my recent Daniel and angel threads I pointed out how the apostles lamented over the inability of their disciples to understand certain doctrines, and I don't think some of those doctrines were understood after the first century. And they had been warned about the wolves that would come into the flock. There were many heretical gnostics as you know.

However, it appears to me that those early Christians were much more united in their beliefs than we are today. There were some things that the orthodox Christians were united on. One of those things is that the church was the true Israel, or temple, although not necessarily the one in 2nd Thessalonians. Irenaeus wrote in that same book you mention:

Book V Against the Heresies Chapter VI.-God Will Bestow Salvation Upon the Whole Nature of Man, Consisting of Body and Soul in Close Union, Since the Word Took It Upon Him, and Adorned with the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, of Whom Our Bodies Are, and are Termed, the Temples.

2. Whence also he says, that this handiwork is "the temple of God," thus declaring: "Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you? If any man, therefore, will defile the temple of God, him will God destroy: for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are."...


Chapter IX.-Showing How that Passage of the Apostle Which the Heretics Pervert, Should Be Understood; Viz., "Flesh and Blood Shall Not Possess the Kingdom of God."
4. If, however, we must speak strictly, [we would say that] the flesh does not inherit, but is inherited; as also the Lord declares, "Blessed are the meek, for they shall possess the earth by inheritance; "63 as if in the [future] kingdom, the earth, from whence exists the substance Of our flesh, is to be possessed by inheritance. This is the reason for His wishing the temple (i.e., the flesh) to be clean, that the Spirit of God may take delight therein, as a bridegroom with a bride. As, therefore, the bride cannot to wed, but to be wedded, when the bridegroom comes and takes her, so also the flesh cannot by itself possess the kingdom of God by inheritance; but it can be taken for an inheritance into the kingdom of God...

From the scriptures Irenaeus quotes it is clear how he understood the spiritual signifigance of the temple.

Chapter XXV.-The Fraud, Pride, and Tyrannical Kingdom of Antichrist, as Described by Daniel and Paul.

1. And not only by the particulars already mentioned, but also by means of the events which shall occur in the time of Antichrist is it shown that he, being an apostate and a robber, is anxious to be adored as God; and that, although a mere slave, he wishes himself to be proclaimed as a king. For he (Antichrist) being endued with all the power of the devil, shall come, not as a righteous king, nor as a legitimate king, [i.e., one] in subjection to God, but an impious, unjust, and lawless one; as an apostate, iniquitous and murderous; as a robber, concentrating in himself [all] satanic apostasy, and setting aside idols to persuade [men] that he himself is God, raising up himself as the only idol, having in himself the multifarious errors of the other idols. This he does, in order that they who do [now] worship the devil by means of many abominations, may serve himself by this one idol, of whom the apostle thus speaks in the second Epistle to the Thessalonians: "Unless there shall come a failing away first, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition, who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God." The apostle therefore clearly points out his apostasy, and that he is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped-that is, above every idol-for these are indeed so called by men, but are not [really] gods; and that he will endeavour in a tyrannical manner to set himself forth as God.

2. Moreover, he (the apostle) has also pointed out this which I have shown in many ways, that the [b]temple in Jerusalem was made by the direction of the true God. For the apostle himself, speaking in his own person, distinctly called it the temple of God. Now I have shown in the third book, that no one is termed God by the apostles when speaking for themselves, except Him who truly is God, the Father of our Lord, by whose directions the temple which is at Jerusalem was constructed for those purposes which I have already mentioned; in which [temple] the enemy shall sit, endeavouring to show himself as Christ, as the Lord also declares: "But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, which has been spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let him that readeth understand), then let those who are in Judea flee into the mountains; and he who is upon the house-top, let him not come down to take anything out of his house: for there shall then be great hardship, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall be."216

Here are the only mentions of the "temple of God" that I can find written by Paul.

1 Cor 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.

2 Cor 6:16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.

2 Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

So what Irenaeus says seems consistent to me.

Chapter XXXV.-He Contends that These Testimonies Already Alleged Cannot Be Understood Allegorically of Celestial Blessings, But that They Shall Have Their Fulfilment After the Coming of Antichrist, and the Resurrection, in the Terrestrial Jerusalem. To the Former Prophecies He Subjoins Others Drawn from Isaiah, Jeremiah, and the Apocalypse of John.

2. Now all these things being such as they are, cannot be understood in reference to super-celestial matters; "for God," it is said, "will show to the whole earth that is under heaven thy glory." But in the times of the kingdom, the earth has been called again by Christ [to its pristine condition], and Jerusalem rebuilt after the pattern of the Jerusalem above, of which the prophet Isaiah says, "Behold, I have depicted thy walls upon my hands, and thou art always in my sight,"323 And the apostle, too, writing to the Galatians, says in like manner, "But the Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all."324 He does not say this with any thought of an erratic Aeon, or of any other power which departed from the Pleroma, or of Prunicus, but of the Jerusalem which has been delineated on [God's] hands. And in the Apocalypse John saw this new [Jerusalem] descending upon the new earth.325 For after the times of the kingdom, he says, "I saw a great white throne, and Him who sat upon it, from whose face the earth fled away, and the heavens; and there was no more place for them."326 And he sets forth, too, the things connected with the general resurrection and the judgment, mentioning "the dead, great and small." "The sea," he says, "gave up the dead which it had in it, and death and hell delivered up the dead that they contained; and the books were opened.

The temple had already been destroyed when Irenaeus wrote, so which temple and Jerusalem did he refer to? If nothing else we can see that his writings weren't preteristic. Preterism is a recent invention and didn't exist among the orthodox early Christians.

[eschaton]

According to Irenaeus, (V, 2, 4; 30, 4) and St. Hippolytus of Rome (Daniel, IV, 44: etc.) ‘the temple’ (naos) in 2 Thess. 2:4 was the one in Jerusalem.

The ‘early Christians’ were divided by differing opinions regarding many things, including the meaning of ‘the temple’ in the context of 2 Thess. 2:4.

The ‘early Christians’ were neither apostles nor prophets; they are not the ultimate arbiters of the true meaning of scripture.


You also mentioned Hippolytus:


<'(On this): The city is the Church ; and these months they are to persecute her and kill, when the false Christ [St. Matth. xxiv. 24] shall come, because she worships him not. Now of this said Daniel, He shall approve the covenant for many, one week; in the half of the week shall cease the sacrifice [Dan, ix. 27]. The half of the week: that is, three years and a-half; and these make the forty and two months which are mentioned. The sacrifice he speaks of is not that of sheep, but the prayers of the upright. And the holy city he speaks of is the righteous, i. e. [those] who are oppressed and trodden under foot by the horn that sprang up in the midst [Dan. vii. 8, 20, 21, 25], which is Antichrist, as Daniel said.

Hippolytus 12 otherwise interprets that which is said in the Gospel, When indeed ye shall see the pollution of desolation [St. Matth. |138 xxiv. 15] : for he says that it is not concerning the Jews, and the laying waste of Jerusalem, that these things are said, but concerning the end of Antichrist. The elect [ib. 22] he speaks of are the Christians who are in this conflict. And He says, Pray that ye fly not on the Sabbath or in winter [ib. 20] : i. e. He advises that we be not overtaken by those things that are coming on us, when we are unoccupied in righteousness, as the Jews [are unoccupied] on the Sabbath, or troubled with worldly cares and sins, as one that is in a winter storm. There shall be tribulation such as there was not like it since the beginning of the world, etc. [ib. 21 ; cp. Dan. xii. 1].

On this Hippolytus says, that in the siege of Vespasian this did not come to pass; for nothing new happened to the world in his days beyond the things that were before. If you speak of war, many times it has happened in former times : and if again of captives, there have not lacked massacres or blood-shedding that was more than that [of the siege]. And if of the eating of children and unclean beasts, lo also in the days of Ahab 13 these things were [2 Kings, vi. 28]. Accordingly it is not concerning Jerusalem that the Lord said this; for when He willed to speak concerning her, He said, When ye shall see the army compassing the city, know that the desolation thereof is nigh [St. Luke, xxi. 20]. Hence the pollution of devastations He speaks of is Antichrist. And Daniel said, [In] the half of the week standeth the abomination in the sanctuary [Dan. ix. 27 ; cp. xi. 31]. Now "Vespasian did not set up in the temple an idol, but that Legion 14 which Trajanus Quintus placed, a chief man of the Romans : he set up the idol there which is called Kôre. |139
Also the Apostle has written that these things are concerning Antichrist, Except if there come first a falling away, and the Man of iniquity be revealed, so that he as God shall sit in the temple, whom our Lord Jesus shall consume, etc. [2 Thess. ii. 3, 4, 8]. From these [words] it is evident that Vespasian did not call himself God, nor did he sit in the temple, nor was he killed by the Spirit of the Lord. Accordingly it is manifest that in the end tribulation arises against the Church, such as was none like it.', >



From :

http://www.tertullian.org/fathers/dionysius_syrus_revelation_01.htm