Bogus "Christian Councelors."

[JoLonda]

I talked to a highly recommended "Christian Counselor" for a series of appointments, but he never mentioned anything about Jesus, or Scripture, or the value of prayer.

At one point, I expressed what I thought was an accurate description of how problematic my mental and emotional situation was. He responded by saying, "Oh, I do not think it is that bad."

I concluded he was just a secular idiot.

There have been a variety of published analyses showing from Scripture how supposedly "Christian Counseling" is by its own tenets a farse, and antithical to the Gospel.

JoLonda.

[Meh_Gerbil]

I was going to recommend that you seek help, but you've already done that.

[Augusta]

I talked to a highly recommended "Christian Counselor" for a series of appointments, but he never mentioned anything about Jesus, or Scripture, or the value of prayer.

At one point, I expressed what I thought was an accurate description of how problematic my mental and emotional situation was. He responded by saying, "Oh, I do not think it is that bad."

I concluded he was just a secular idiot.

There have been a variety of published analyses showing from Scripture how supposedly "Christian Counseling" is by its own tenets a farse, and antithical to the Gospel.

JoLonda.
I hope this thread will turn serious and not end up in the locker room.

I've heard the term Christian counselor several times now and would like some clarification on what it means. My impression is that it is a person with a PhD in psychology or a psychiatrist (MD) who has an official practice and charges money for his/her services. Is that right?

I am curious what people's experiences have been with Christian counselors. It sounds as if JoLonda could have picked a secular counselor and gotten exactly the same treatment. So what do they advertise is the difference?

Many people (Christian and non) can and do benefit from the services of a counselor, if even for a short period of time. I have seriously considered going to one myself. My son was helped considerably from a year's worth of group sessions. His psychologist didn't claim to be a Christian counselor and he didn't mention Jesus or the Bible or prayer. However, I suspected he was a serious Christian--though I wasn't one myself at that time--because of the way he used certain terms, like "post-modern". And nothing he said or did conflicted with Christian principles.

I suppose when addressing issues such as infidelity and divorce, a Christian would prefer to use a Christian counselor.

[norwegen]

I talked to a highly recommended "Christian Counselor" for a series of appointments, but he never mentioned anything about Jesus, or Scripture, or the value of prayer.

At one point, I expressed what I thought was an accurate description of how problematic my mental and emotional situation was. He responded by saying, "Oh, I do not think it is that bad."

I concluded he was just a secular idiot.

There have been a variety of published analyses showing from Scripture how supposedly "Christian Counseling" is by its own tenets a farse, and antithical to the Gospel.

JoLonda.I sought counseling once at my church for relationship/premarital issues. As my sessions were more run-of-the-mill, I can't tell tell you how the doctor might have handled emotional or psychological problems, but I can say that he prayed with us before and after each session, and occassionally referred to scripture or applied some Biblical insight to our personal situation.

Your counselor may have a degree and some other credentials framed and hanging on his wall, but if you're unsure of his faith, don't be afraid to drill him. Ask him to share his testomony or something.I've heard the term Christian counselor several times now and would like some clarification on what it means. My impression is that it is a person with a PhD in psychology or a psychiatrist (MD) who has an official practice and charges money for his/her services. Is that right?

I am curious what people's experiences have been with Christian counselors. It sounds as if JoLonda could have picked a secular counselor and gotten exactly the same treatment. So what do they advertise is the difference?Yes, the Christian counselor should have adequate education (an advanced degree in education, if nothing else), and should demonstrate his faith.

The difference for me was easy, as I alluded to above. The counselor set up his practice at the church; the church covered expenses rendered to members. Anyone can claim to be Christian in the yellow pages, but if JoLonda lives in or near a big city, maybe she can look into some of the conseling services offered in the larger churches (feel free to investigate the church, too, of course).

[JoLonda]

I was going to recommend that you seek help, but you've already done that.

How important are your "Recommendations" to anyone besides yourself?

JoLonda.

[JoLonda]

I sought counseling once at my church for relationship/premarital issues. As my sessions were more run-of-the-mill, I can't tell tell you how the doctor might have handled emotional or psychological problems, but I can say that he prayed with us before and after each session, and occassionally referred to scripture or applied some Biblical insight to our personal situation.

Your counselor may have a degree and some other credentials framed and hanging on his wall, but if you're unsure of his faith, don't be afraid to drill him. Ask him to share his testomony or something.Yes, the Christian counselor should have adequate education (an advanced degree in education, if nothing else), and should demonstrate his faith.

The difference for me was easy, as I alluded to above. The counselor set up his practice at the church; the church covered expenses rendered to members. Anyone can claim to be Christian in the yellow pages, but if JoLonda lives in or near a big city, maybe she can look into some of the conseling services offered in the larger churches (feel free to investigate the church, too, of course).

Thank you so much for informing me of what I should "Feel Free" to consider and do.

This "Christian Counselor" clown was recommended by two pastors.

JoLonda.

[JoLonda]

I sought counseling once at my church for relationship/premarital issues. As my sessions were more run-of-the-mill, I can't tell tell you how the doctor might have handled emotional or psychological problems, but I can say that he prayed with us before and after each session, and occassionally referred to scripture or applied some Biblical insight to our personal situation.

Your counselor may have a degree and some other credentials framed and hanging on his wall, but if you're unsure of his faith, don't be afraid to drill him. Ask him to share his testomony or something.Yes, the Christian counselor should have adequate education (an advanced degree in education, if nothing else), and should demonstrate his faith.

The difference for me was easy, as I alluded to above. The counselor set up his practice at the church; the church covered expenses rendered to members. Anyone can claim to be Christian in the yellow pages, but if JoLonda lives in or near a big city, maybe she can look into some of the conseling services offered in the larger churches (feel free to investigate the church, too, of course).

Thank you so much for informing me of what I should "Feel Free" to consider and do.

This "Christian Counselor" clown was recommended by two pastors. Maybe they were clowns also.

JoLonda.

[Gromit45]

It sounds like you don't have much of a relationship established here, so don't hesitate to search for a Christ-grounded counselor. They ARE out there, albeit too few in number.

I've had a somewhat similar experience with a counselor and ended it after a couple of sessions. Don't waste too much time and money on someone that won't help point you toward Christ.

[norwegen]

Thank you so much for informing me of what I should "Feel Free" to consider and do.Sorry.

So, don't feel free.This "Christian Counselor" clown was recommended by two pastors. Maybe they were clowns also.

JoLonda.Well, why you choose to associate with clowns and idiots is your own business.

And why you bother to listen to the advice of others is beyond me.

[JoLonda]

Sorry.

So, don't feel free.Well, why you choose to associate with clowns and idiots is your own business.

And why you bother to listen to the advice of others is beyond me.

As of many years ago, I have stopped associating with religious clowns, generally who are Professional Church Talkers, except to occasionally check on their spiritual progress to see if any lightbulbs have come on in their busy little heads.

Actually, it is difficult to get away from all the Churchy sounding clowns, since they are in every Church, on almost all Christian media, occasionally show up in the workplace, and certainly concentrate in Forums such as this.

But it continues to remain my privilage to serve the Lord with any amount of Truth and promotion of His Word. Jesus, as well, had to do things to get peoples' attention before telling them anything. If they were recalcitrant, He just blew them off.

I specialize in helping Professional Church People. Fun group. Easy to figure out.

JoLonda.

[Keepupthefire]

Our church councelor doesn't charge anything. I think it's robbing God to do otherwise. Our councelor is paid staff, but he also is Pastor of other areas, so he is not limited to counceling. He is Pastor to counceling, care an prayer. I have always had a high confidence in him. He started out at our church as our temp worship leader. He would always pause during singing hymn, an praise songs, and speak scripture. That was something I hadn't seen much with other worship leaders. Some have it.. some don't.

There are Pseudo-Christian practitioners of counceling, an it seems some of you have met them. Rather, I would correct them with scripture about the error they are doing(with gentleness).

God Bless

[JoLonda]

Our church councelor doesn't charge anything. I think it's robbing God to do otherwise. Our councelor is paid staff, but he also is Pastor of other areas, so he is not limited to counceling. He is Pastor to counceling, care an prayer. I have always had a high confidence in him. He started out at our church as our temp worship leader. He would always pause during singing hymn, an praise songs, and speak scripture. That was something I hadn't seen much with other worship leaders. Some have it.. some don't.

There are Pseudo-Christian practitioners of counceling, an it seems some of you have met them. Rather, I would correct them with scripture about the error they are doing(with gentleness).

God Bless

Can you check in Scripture to seem how "gentle" Jesus Himself was when correcting fools?

When you have, please post your findings.

JoLonda.

[Cello]

I hope this thread will turn serious and not end up in the locker room.

I've heard the term Christian counselor several times now and would like some clarification on what it means. My impression is that it is a person with a PhD in psychology or a psychiatrist (MD) who has an official practice and charges money for his/her services. Is that right?

I am curious what people's experiences have been with Christian counselors. It sounds as if JoLonda could have picked a secular counselor and gotten exactly the same treatment. So what do they advertise is the difference?

Many people (Christian and non) can and do benefit from the services of a counselor, if even for a short period of time. I have seriously considered going to one myself. My son was helped considerably from a year's worth of group sessions. His psychologist didn't claim to be a Christian counselor and he didn't mention Jesus or the Bible or prayer. However, I suspected he was a serious Christian--though I wasn't one myself at that time--because of the way he used certain terms, like "post-modern". And nothing he said or did conflicted with Christian principles.

I suppose when addressing issues such as infidelity and divorce, a Christian would prefer to use a Christian counselor.

I am pretty sure you'll get differing definitions, but I'd say at the base, anyone who claims Christ can be a counselor who is Christian. Our pastors provide counsel, another member of the body can provide counsel....and it is our responsibility to be sure we seek counsel from those we trust and 'see' Christ in...(to the extent that we can).

Then there are those who 'practice' counseling from a medical POV. Therapists, social workers, RNs, doctors.....who can also be christian.

If it were me, I'd prefer someone who had a faith base for their counseling. And one that relied on the bible. They are much more likley to share some measure of my belief system...not to say that a secular counselor can't be effective.

Our side note experience is that we went (dd and I) to a Christian counselor and although he did talk about scripture and talked a lot about reconcilliation and forgiveness, I was ultimately very disappointed by his personal approach professionally (maybe his 'bedside' manner) and we terminated our sessions in a flurry one day in the middle of his office while he uttered narray a word. Just watched us walk out....after just watching the conversation between my dd and I disintegrate...and never uttered one word.

hmmmmm. In thatcase I simply call his professional skills in to question.

[spiritmech]

I did some counseling with two Christian counselors, one very famous, one not very much so. Both were good and helped me a good bit. It's probably just the particular one you went to.
sm

[Cello]

I did some counseling with two Christian counselors, one very famous, one not very much so. Both were good and helped me a good bit. It's probably just the particular one you went to.
sm

Hi there! Yes, I agree.....as I said, I think its his personal skills that were questionable...not indicative of christian counselors on a whole. As with any profession, there will be good and bad - there are skilled and unskilled. Knowing which are which when you set out though is very difficult.

[InTheEnd]

JoLonda I believe this issue is sensitive to you and I hope I do not offend you by saying that maybe the christian counsellor was just a little scared and needs some reasurance. Maybe you should ask him to start praying and reading the bible with you or seek a pastor or other christian councellor intstead.

[JoLonda]

JoLonda I believe this issue is sensitive to you and I hope I do not offend you by saying that maybe the christian counsellor was just a little scared and needs some reasurance. Maybe you should ask him to start praying and reading the bible with you or seek a pastor or other christian councellor intstead.

End,

So, if the Christian Counselor was "just a little scared," then he should have been smart enough and strong enough to ignore his fright. Don't yah think?

I mean, if he had been "a lot scared," then I can see him tightening up. But you said he was "just a little scared," so it should have not been a problem for him.

Also, and I hope I do not offend you here, If he had been "scared" at all, and had been "Christian" at all, he should have just "Cast all his cares on Jesus."

Right?

Maybe I should have charged him for helping him, instead of him charging me?

Are you a Christian Counselor? Is that why you sympathesize with him?

JoLonda.

[Rahab]

I talked to a highly recommended "Christian Counselor" for a series of appointments, but he never mentioned anything about Jesus, or Scripture, or the value of prayer.

Bonjour Jolonda,

Maybe your expectation was that a counselor is to be a preacher who will ad nauseum " mention Jesus, scripture or the value of prayer". Are you that dependent on what any other believer will mention to you to experience Christ, read your own Bible and communicate via prayer with God?

.At one point, I expressed what I thought was an accurate description of how problematic my mental and emotional situation was.. You do not mention "spiritual" situation. Only emotional and mental.Yet, you seem disappointed that the counselor in question did not use a spiritual method to help you solve whichever mental and emotional issue you were dealing with.Are you under the impression that mental and emotional issues can only be resolved via spiritual centered counseling?



. He responded by saying, "Oh, I do not think it is that bad.". I certainly do not expect you to relate the entire content of your private communication with your counselor. Being familiar with basic counseling principles, the counselor tends to "dedramatize" the presented issues in order to encourage a lesser emotional response from the counselee to the given situation or circumstance.However, the counselor is to validate first that your feelings are real.

.I concluded he was just a secular idiot. What is your problem with secular counseling?

.There have been a variety of published analyses showing from Scripture how supposedly "Christian Counseling" is by its own tenets a farse, and antithical to the Gospel.

JoLonda.

I am not sure if one can consider in all circumstances the Bible to be a manual of mental health. I will even venture to add that in some cases, a Scripture centered application to solve "mental and emotional" issues may result in greater distress than a practical resolution which acknowleges existing realities.

Let me take this as an example of existing realities where a Scripture based application will undoubtly result in affecting negatively the mental and emotional health of children:
X and Y have been married for 10 years plus. X is seeking counseling from her church as to the repeated adultery and abusive behavior of Y. Y shows no willingness to "depart from her" and pursues to keep her as being co dependent of his dysfunctional behavior. They have two children. Both witnessing the codependency of their mother and becoming themselves future adult children. Which means adults who themselves will be dysfunctional.

A secular counselor would encourage separation between X and Y in order to promote a process of recovery for X and help her refocus on the mental and emotional health of her children.He/she does not dwell on any alleged God's Will that any person remains codependent of an abusive and manipulative husband or wife to await for he/she to "depart ". Such counselor will encourage Y to seek counseling in order to save the marriage. However, the majority of abusive personalities are not willing to recognize the dysfunctional aspect of their behaviors and how detrimental it is to their families.The success key to any counseling being the voluntary presence of the counselee.

There is, in some instances, such a legalistic application of Scriptures in christian family counseling, that it results in the maintenance and prolongation of the condition of the counselee as a victim. Including the children.

[Pilgrim]

I think people have misunderstood Jolanda here. She was not seeking advice, she was simply ranting. (As anyone can see from her responses.) There is no response you could give her that would result in anything other than condesension and vitriol.

I do think she is on to something in the first post. There are an aweful lot of bad "Christian" counselors out there.

Many simply have some degree and education less than a psychologist or psychiatrist. Maybe a MACO degree. And they simply hang a sign on their door saying "counselor."

If you can find a psychologist who is also a Christian you'll probably do best. Although it is hard. I went to see a psychologist some time ago and I was continually dissapointed that she did not understand the spiritual elements in my life. Conversly, I've been consistantly dissapointed in Christian counselors who fail to integrate psychological matters into the conversation. It's a hard balance to strike.

As a pastor I will only meet with people for 4 counseling sessions before I recommend them to a mental health care professional. To many pastors try to be psychologists and get out of their depth pretty quickly and to the detriment of their parishoners.

[Rahab]

I think people have misunderstood Jolanda here. She was not seeking advice, she was simply ranting. (As anyone can see from her responses.) There is no response you could give her that would result in anything other than condesension and vitriol.

I do think she is on to something in the first post. There are an aweful lot of bad "Christian" counselors out there.

Many simply have some degree and education less than a psychologist or psychiatrist. Maybe a MACO degree. And they simply hang a sign on their door saying "counselor."

If you can find a psychologist who is also a Christian you'll probably do best. Although it is hard. I went to see a psychologist some time ago and I was continually dissapointed that she did not understand the spiritual elements in my life. Conversly, I've been consistantly dissapointed in Christian counselors who fail to integrate psychological matters into the conversation. It's a hard balance to strike.

As a pastor I will only meet with people for 4 counseling sessions before I recommend them to a mental health care professional. To many pastors try to be psychologists and get out of their depth pretty quickly and to the detriment of their parishoners. Do you think that such pastors are reluctant to make a referral to professional services because they fear their parishoner may be given an advice they consider to not be " church doctrine" proof? Not so much that the counseling is Bible proof but such counseling would question the specific denominational doctrine of the church the parishoner attends.

I agree with "it is a hard balance to strike". IMO any counselor is to use a level of communication and themes he/she knows the counselee can relate to.

I have seen that quality mostly among military chaplains who end up providing counseling to servicemembers of various denominational/religious backgrounds. Including some who are not of any religious affiliation.

Just curious.... how would you manage marital counseling if dealing with a couple where one spouse is a christian and one is not? How do you balance your communication to both of them so that the non believer will establish a trust rapport with you, a rapport the christian spouse already has from the get go with you.

[Pilgrim]

I think most pastors just don't know how to use mental health resources. Also, they want to think that they can fix the problem and so don't realize when they are out of their depth.

How would I deal with such a situation? I would simply be a safe third party for them to come to. Most of it would be reflective listening and non-judgemental acceptance.

[Rahab]

I think most pastors just don't know how to use mental health resources. Also, they want to think that they can fix the problem and so don't realize when they are out of their depth.

How would I deal with such a situation? I would simply be a safe third party for them to come to. Most of it would be reflective listening and non-judgemental acceptance. Bravo! I expected no less from you. The "safe" aspect of what you represent to them is so important.

My experience with counseling is quite limited to PAS. The non judgemental acceptance of the counselee is vital to promoting in her the desire to recover and heal.

I think such pastors may project in their determination to "fix the problem" the belief that "In Christ I can do all things" and may not be willing to surrender to God the control of the outcome. They may want to see a resolution right here and right now without considering that their role is to simply plant a seed while someone else will complete the task as a harvester.

You know, Pilgrim, some will reject such a term as "mental health" and consider that in any given situation, they are to deal with it from a purely spiritual angle. They might oppose the use of anti depressants, making their counselee feel as " o ye people of little faith" as the reason for a chemical unbalance. If they ever recognize that there is a such a thing as "chemical unbalance". I have known some seriously depressed (clinical) folks who quit their treatment without medical advice under the admonition of an over zealous pastor claiming "God has healed you". (I did not mention it in the Andrea Yates case but there is some degree of religious influence in her family not taking seriously her symptoms which were all consistant with cyclic psychotic patterns).

Is there any concern in the mainstream christian larger denominations to advise pastors to proceed as you do?(which is to make referrals to mental health care services once the evaluation has been made that the source of the issue may be of clinical origine). Including referrals to the DCFS when dealing with a case of domestic violence, abuse or neglict of seniors, children etc..?

I like to envision a counseling pastor as being protective of the "wounded sheep". That is having no hesitation to yank out of her abusive home a woman seeking help from the church. I cannot conciliate the art and skills of sheep herding with the image of a shepherd leaving any of his flock in a perillous situation.

I asked the question IRW referrals to DCFS because I have seen a trend (smaller denominations) in some pastors to send the victim back to her abuser with the words of "Keep praying, be patient, God will change his heart, leave for a while when he gets agitated etc etc....".

[Pilgrim]

My denomination highly recommends that pastors utilize mental health professionals. Of course the preference is to find someone who is Christian or at the very least understands the ways in which spirit and psyche integrate.

In regards to DCFS, I am required by law to report any situation in which I think a child is endangerd. As far as adults go, it's not always that easy. Of course I always council towards reconciliation but if I sense a spouse (of either gender) is in danger I council them to seek shelter away from home.

[dyannah]

I want to become a christian counselor someday.
I am working towards this goal now.
Pray for me all of you who are christians,okay?
I will always support those who want to talk about Jesus Christ
if God allows me to reach this goal because he's the reason why
I desire to help others so much.

[Sonofthunder]

My psychologist is a christian and makes it a point to say so in his practice. How could I possibily see a nonchristian. The most important person in my life is Jesus Christ. Your counselor must be able to understand this, not just acknowledge it. My councelor has stoped midsession and prayed with me. I am a broken man in a broken world. We are to be conformed in Christ's image. My mental illness means that I am just a little more broken than some others. A secular councelor tries to conform you back to "normal" A christian councelor knows that health is gained as your are conformed to the image of Christ.