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Apologetics 301 Guidelines
If you think this is the area where you tell everyone you are sorry for eating their lunch out of the fridge, it probably isn't the place for you
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
This forum is open discussion between atheists and all theists to defend and debate their views on religion or non-religion. Please respect that this is a Christian-owned forum and refrain from gratuitous blasphemy. VERY wide leeway is given in range of expression and allowable behavior as compared to other areas of the forum, and moderation is not overly involved unless necessary. Please keep this in mind. Atheists who wish to interact with theists in a way that does not seek to undermine theistic faith may participate in the World Religions Department. Non-debate question and answers and mild and less confrontational discussions can take place in General Theistics.
Forum Rules: Here
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God and social dysfunction
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostConsequently, it is not possible to educate religious people in evolution simply by explaining the science even if the science is unimpeachable.
In both cases, it's an easy claim to make when frustrated and comes off as immature.
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Originally posted by seasanctuary View PostThat sounds remarkably like the Calvinist apologists who claim the intellectual case for Christianity is completely compelling, and that people who hear it and don't agree are mentally handicapped.
In both cases, it's an easy claim to make when frustrated and comes off as immature.
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Sounds like Coyne has insulated himself from the possibility that his arguments (and possibly his 'facts') aren't as good as he might think: if religious people aren't persuaded, it's because they're socially dysfunctional (not because he's wrong about anything).
Good luck with that. History shows us that people aren't very good at doing that on their own....>>> Witty remark or snarky quote of another poster goes here <<<...
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At its peak the British Empire was spread across the entire world. It was also religious. Today? Cameron is begging Scotland not to leave. Atheism (or more specifically, the general crop of Enderpment philosophies) destroyed the West's true potential. Atheism and other liberal religions (but I repeat myself) are dysgenic.
It is the cycle of civilization. prosperity -> decadence and hedonism -> collapse"As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by robrecht View PostVery interesting ideas. I'd say a fundamental problem in some Christianities, but certainly not all.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh9_GbrLQ18
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostTrue. This is Gregory Paul on the successful society scale (the USA is currently at the wrong end):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wh9_GbrLQ18
Of course I suspect that the "society scale" has some rather arbitrary criterion. And yes, as we become less Christian I suspect that we will become worse.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostOf course I suspect that the "society scale" has some rather arbitrary criterion. And yes, as we become less Christian I suspect that we will become worse.
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostThese are not even slightly similar. Supernatural philosophies are evidence free.
I would say that Seasanctuary's analysis is correct. You value evidence above faith. Others value faith above evidence. If faith is a better method for understanding truth (a position I do not hold, but acknowledge that some do), then yes, the parallel between your statement and Calvinist thought is completely obvious.
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Originally posted by Outis View PostA rephrase of your previous post: "In his talk he explains that secular people will reject spiritual truth if they conflict with their secular views. Consequently, it is not possible to educate secular people in religion simply by explaining the religious truth even if the religious truth is unimpeachable."
I would say that Seasanctuary's analysis is correct. You value evidence above faith. Others value faith above evidence. If faith is a better method for understanding truth (a position I do not hold, but acknowledge that some do), then yes, the parallel between your statement and Calvinist thought is completely obvious.
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostFaith is not equivalent to evidence because of where we are.
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Originally posted by firstfloor View PostActually, according to Gregory Paul, the opposite is true. The successful societies are less religious.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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