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dizzle
February 5th 2006, 03:21 AM
New Research Links Abortion With Depression, Other Mental Health Problems

by Culture & Cosmos

A New Zealand researcher who identifies himself as "pro-choice," an atheist and a rationalist has published a study linking abortion with an increased risk for mental health problems and he criticized the American Psychological Association for its absolutist stance claiming no link between abortion and mental health.

Dr. David M. Fergusson's study, published in the widely respected Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry found that compared to women who had never been pregnant and women who had been pregnant but never had an abortion, women who had abortions were at a higher risk for suicide, major depression, anxiety disorder and drug dependence.

In an interview on Australian radio Fergusson said he is pro-abortion but thinks it is important to have as much information about the effects of abortion as possible. "My view is I'm pro-choice, and I believe that women do have the right to have a choice to abortion. So I don't see these results as being against that position, but it does show, as with any surgical procedure, or any procedure of any form, that there are risks and benefits that need to be taken into account and to be weighed up very carefully."

Fergusson said he conducted the research because he did not think there had been enough study on the subject. "The whole topic has been remarkably under-researched . . . there's been a lot of debate about whether abortion does or does not have harmful effects, but the amount of research into the harms of abortion, or its benefits for that matter, has been very limited."

The report examined a group of more than 500 girls who have been studied from birth to age 25. While it has long been acknowledged that women who have had abortions have higher rates of depression and other mental health problems, there has been dispute over whether or not this was because abortion caused mental health problems or because women with mental health problems were more likely to have abortions. By studying such a large cohort of women over such a long period of time, Fergusson said he was able to take into account and eliminate factors like socio-economic background, family life and previous history

Fergusson noted that his findings were at odds with many in the mainstream of psychology who have steadfastly rejected a link between abortion and depression. "In particular, in its 2005 statement on abortion, the American Psychological Association concluded that ‘well designed studies of psychological responses following abortion have consistently shown that risk of psychological harm is low . . . the percentage of women who experience clinically relevant distress is small and appears to be no greater than in general samples of women of reproductive age’ . . . This relatively strong conclusion about the absence of harm from abortion was based on a relatively small number of studies which had one or more of the following limitations: a) absence of comprehensive assessment of mental disorders; b) lack of comparison groups; and c) limited statistical controls. Furthermore, the statement appears to disregard the findings of a number of studies that had claimed to show negative effects for abortion."

Copyright 2005 --- Culture of Life Foundation. Permission granted for unlimited use. Credit required.

http://www.culture-of-life.org/default.aspx?Control=ArticleMaster&aid=1455][/b] Source ([b)

EvoUK
February 5th 2006, 07:02 PM
Depression is a natural human reaction to stress. You can get depressed having a baby - should we then not have children? You can get depressed moving house, taking on a new job etc. I don't see depression alone as an argument against abortion. But then given the way that some people treat women who seek an abortion, this is hardly surprising.

Of course then the unanswerable question would be, would their life be better or worse if they had NOT had the abortion?

In many, many cases, the answer would of course be worse. Otherwise they wouldn't have made the decision to abort in the first place. And the group whose lives would have been better still doesn't actually say anything about whether or not having the choice to abort is right or wrong ... it only means that given the decision, they made the wrong decision for them.

So, I don't see this research in any way bolstering the pro-life position. It would tend to say that perhaps it would be a good idea to provide more access to counseling for women who have had abortions.

dizzle
February 5th 2006, 08:11 PM
It was posted as an item of interest nothing more nothng less. I am not qualified to judge or assess the validity of the study. I found it interestng that the article said perhaps depressed women were more likely to have abortions making the correlation run the opposite direction.

And I don't know about your immediate society but nobody where I live treats women any differently.

Interesting though you suggest post-mur...abortion counseling. I wasn't offered counseling after my tonsillectomy. Think I should have been?

And the answerable question is that the lives snuffed out would be alive rather than dead.

Again I don't post this to bolster the anti-abortion position. I don't find appealing to the selfishness of the women as an argument against abortion. It wouldn't make abortion morrally right if it were proven that a woman's IQ jumped ten points after one. It is irrelevant in my position. I can say I had depression before I ever had any abortions so I am not trying to hint that my two abortions were a factor. If they were perhaps they made an already existing tendency worse, but I will never know.

EvoUK
February 5th 2006, 08:44 PM
Interesting though you suggest post-mur...abortion counseling. I wasn't offered counseling after my tonsillectomy. Think I should have been?

Possibly- that you try to call it "murder" obviously shows poorly on your psychological issues with the subject, perhaps stemming from a lack of decent councelling after the matter- some people have more of an emotional problem with the concept.

And the answerable question is that the lives snuffed out would be alive rather than dead.

That's quite an assumption. One would think being born by parents who obviously don't want you (wanting an abortion doesn't imply that they do) isn't necessarily a good thing.

That aside- dying before ever being aware one existed is a non-consequence. Not different than never being conceived.

Again I don't post this to bolster the anti-abortion position.

Pardon my assumption- I do know you to be staunchly anti-abortion, despite having had several yourself.

anthrogirl
February 5th 2006, 09:40 PM
Interesting study. I'd like to comment that rates of depression tend to increase with most medical procedures. They even have a name for the somatic response to psychological processes--"somatization". Biomedicine does not do a very good job of dealing with suffering--they tend to medicalize away the social significance of the illness/medical experience. This is very ironic because suffering is such a big part of being sick. Also, medicine is first and foremost a social experience. Through biomedicine, we translate the sufferer's experience into the technical realm--where we deal with the body's invaders with machines and a pharmaceutical armory. The sufferer's experience becomes the "ghost in the machine".

fwiw,
ag

dizzle
February 5th 2006, 11:56 PM
Possibly- that you try to call it "murder" obviously shows poorly on your psychological issues with the subject, perhaps stemming from a lack of decent councelling after the matter- some people have more of an emotional problem with the concept.

I didn't believe so until nearly 6 years after the first one. So I doubt counseling has a whit to do with it but my conversion. I didn't think twice about it before then.

That's quite an assumption. One would think being born by parents who obviously don't want you (wanting an abortion doesn't imply that they do) isn't necessarily a good thing.

So it is better to be dead than unwanted? Didn't know that being unwanted is a captial offense. And there is always adoption.


That aside- dying before ever being aware one existed is a non-consequence. Not different than never being conceived.

Way different because that person will never exist. I would think as an atheist that would be an even greater loss.

Pardon my assumption- I do know you to be staunchly anti-abortion, despite having had several yourself.

I didn't criticize your assumption it was fair. What does the "despite" have anything to do with anything? Can one not be against something they once have done? That simply seemed like a cheap shot at the expense of something you know I hold very dear - quite tasteless.

EvoUK
February 6th 2006, 01:13 AM
Way different because that person will never exist. I would think as an atheist that would be an even greater loss.

Nah- it's the experience of being alive which many of us consider to be important.

What does the "despite" have anything to do with anything? Can one not be against something they once have done? That simply seemed like a cheap shot at the expense of something you know I hold very dear - quite tasteless.

I'm sorry- I appologise- it was incredibly poor wording on my part in retrospect and wasn't actually meant as a cheap shot.

dizzle
February 6th 2006, 08:26 AM
Nah- it's the experience of being alive which many of us consider to be important.

It is the gift (either by chance or by God - whichever your view) of being alive. It is the one chance for that one unique individual.


I'm sorry- I appologise- it was incredibly poor wording on my part in retrospect and wasn't actually meant as a cheap shot.

Thank you - forgiven and forgotten.

SteveF
February 6th 2006, 09:10 AM
The study for those interested. Dee Dee, if you want a copy then send me an email.

Fergusson, D.M. et al (2006) Abortion in young women and subsequent mental health. Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry, 47, 16-24.

Abstract:

Background: The extent to which abortion has harmful consequences for mental health remains controversial. We aimed to examine the linkages between having an abortion and mental health outcomes over the interval from age 15-25 years.

Methods: Data were gathered as part of the Christchurch Health and Development Study, a 25-year longitudinal study of a birth cohort of New Zealand children. Information was obtained on: a) the history of pregnancy/abortion for female participants over the interval from 15-25 years; b) measures of DSM-IV mental disorders and suicidal behaviour over the intervals 15-18, 18-21 and 21-25 years; and c) childhood, family and related confounding factors.

Results: Forty-one percent of women had become pregnant on at least one occasion prior to age 25, with 14.6% having an abortion. Those having an abortion had elevated rates of subsequent mental health problems including depression, anxiety, suicidal behaviours and substance use disorders. This association persisted after adjustment for confounding factors.

Conclusions: The findings suggest that abortion in young women may be associated with increased risks of mental health problems.

Jimmy Higgins
February 6th 2006, 12:55 PM
Interesting though you suggest post-mur...abortion counseling. I wasn't offered counseling after my tonsillectomy. Think I should have been?I ponder a mastectomy. I know that health insurance actually covers the plastic surgery that would be required to replace the breast(s) removed from such an operation. They must do so for a reason.

I also ponder as to the mental state of women who go through this operation and how it effects them emotionally. Mastectomies don't even carry a stigma in society. In fact, people would be kind and sympathetic to a person who had a mastectomy. Yet depression and anxiety have been linked with mastectomies.

And the answerable question is that the lives snuffed out would be alive rather than dead. Or perhaps it's the body's realization that it lost a part of itself.

Mastectomy and immediate reconstruction (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=16128097&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)

Post Treatment Symptoms (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15759063&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)

Support after Mastectomy Procedure (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15378101&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum)

EvoUK
February 7th 2006, 08:13 AM
Hmm... subtle.

Jimmy Higgins
February 7th 2006, 05:36 PM
I guess Dee Dee was done with this point of interest... and nothing else. However, I still think the point is interesting. Are mastectomys wrong because women suffer depression and anxiety from them?

Ryokan
February 7th 2006, 05:51 PM
New Research Links Abortion With Depression, Other Mental Health Problems

by Culture & Cosmos

A New Zealand researcher who identifies himself as "pro-choice," an atheist and a rationalist has published a study linking abortion with an increased risk for mental health problems and he criticized the American Psychological Association for its absolutist stance claiming no link between abortion and mental health.

Dr. David M. Fergusson's study, published in the widely respected Journal of Child Psychology and Psychiatry found that compared to women who had never been pregnant and women who had been pregnant but never had an abortion, women who had abortions were at a higher risk for suicide, major depression, anxiety disorder and drug dependence.

In an interview on Australian radio Fergusson said he is pro-abortion but thinks it is important to have as much information about the effects of abortion as possible. "My view is I'm pro-choice, and I believe that women do have the right to have a choice to abortion. So I don't see these results as being against that position, but it does show, as with any surgical procedure, or any procedure of any form, that there are risks and benefits that need to be taken into account and to be weighed up very carefully."

Fergusson said he conducted the research because he did not think there had been enough study on the subject. "The whole topic has been remarkably under-researched . . . there's been a lot of debate about whether abortion does or does not have harmful effects, but the amount of research into the harms of abortion, or its benefits for that matter, has been very limited."

The report examined a group of more than 500 girls who have been studied from birth to age 25. While it has long been acknowledged that women who have had abortions have higher rates of depression and other mental health problems, there has been dispute over whether or not this was because abortion caused mental health problems or because women with mental health problems were more likely to have abortions. By studying such a large cohort of women over such a long period of time, Fergusson said he was able to take into account and eliminate factors like socio-economic background, family life and previous history

Fergusson noted that his findings were at odds with many in the mainstream of psychology who have steadfastly rejected a link between abortion and depression. "In particular, in its 2005 statement on abortion, the American Psychological Association concluded that ‘well designed studies of psychological responses following abortion have consistently shown that risk of psychological harm is low . . . the percentage of women who experience clinically relevant distress is small and appears to be no greater than in general samples of women of reproductive age’ . . . This relatively strong conclusion about the absence of harm from abortion was based on a relatively small number of studies which had one or more of the following limitations: a) absence of comprehensive assessment of mental disorders; b) lack of comparison groups; and c) limited statistical controls. Furthermore, the statement appears to disregard the findings of a number of studies that had claimed to show negative effects for abortion."

Copyright 2005 --- Culture of Life Foundation. Permission granted for unlimited use. Credit required.

http://www.culture-of-life.org/default.aspx?Control=ArticleMaster&aid=1455][/b] Source ([b)
This thread goes back to what I have said about this issue in the past, Dee Dee. Every single other issue in regards to this is dependant on the personhood issue. If fetuses are persons, then it doesn' matter is the procedure makes them feel like they just won the lottery, and if they aren't, the idea of unpleasantness associated with it is unimportant, as many pro-choicers here have pointed out. You have to persuade them of the personhood issue.