NEW STUDY: JCA Links depression with 'society'

[JCA]

It seems year after year, more and more 'labels' for mental disorders appear. To me, it's like every Psyche Major has a need to find something new.. something everyone else has missed.. that is 'wrong' with us.

If I asked my gran what 'bi-polar' was, she would wonder if I was talking about white bears with homosexual tendencies. So many new things they never had 'back then'. Then again, she also wanted to put tape over all the plug sockets because she thought they 'leaked' electricity.. and was a major reason for 'static electricity'. Had to love my Gran.

Anyway, the thing is, more and more 'things' are being blamed for peoples depression, and anger etc.. drink, drugs, mental disorders etc.. and yet it seems to me that everyone is missing the one biggest common denominator.. Society.

Within it, we allow sorts of things, deny others, and have an over abundance of labels. Society itself is so complex, with it's laws, taxes, religions, people etc., that it is actually an out of control juggernaut. With very slow steps towards some good, it also takes steps towards bad. An example is Nuclear Energy.. and the weapons you can create with it too. With every increase in funding in one arena, a decrease is felt elsewhere.. it is a juggling act, and the fact that you have to throw in several different societies all mixed within this one BIG society - places like the USA, Europe etc. - is it any wonder that some people get major headaches.. or depressed.. or go just plain crazy?

Why is it when Joe robs a store and kills someone in the process, the fact that he had a beer and smoked some pot becomes the reason? What on earth was causing Joe to take those things in the first place? People might say society failed the victim in such an instance.. but if you look at it standing back, everyone lost..

All society can do is put a bandaid on such issues.. blame a 'thing' (illness, drug, bad parents, bullying etc.), as it cannot come right out and point to itself and say.. Hmm.. maybe *I* have a problem.

Now, don't get me wrong.. as I stated, society has made progress towards 'good'. But it is not right yet. And quite frankly it IS depressing when you look at how society can be manipulated. For instance, a press release about some tycoon has had dealings with a country the government doesn't like.. his stocks fall.. businesses close, people go out of work.. someone is suffering. This can all be untrue.. he may never have had any deralings with said people.. but the damage is done. I'm not even going to say that this was done malisciously.. does it matter? This causes our now unemployed Joey above to drink, so on, and on.


Lastly, I want to say that this appears to be a rant.. and in a way it is. :teeth: But not without reason. You see, I do happen to believe that there is something wrong with society. Not that it is ALL wrong, or that it needs to be scrapped and everyone rise up right now blah blah blah. Only that it seems that people are not looking deep enough for some of the 'ills of society'. We are too quick to blame symptoms.. patch it, and move on.


Please discuss.

IN Love and Peace

JCA

[Jimmy Higgins]

It seems year after year, more and more 'labels' for mental disorders appear. To me, it's like every Psyche Major has a need to find something new.. something everyone else has missed.. that is 'wrong' with us.
Sadly, this is both too true and too wrong.

True: Many people want to blame their bad feelings on mental problems

Wrong: Some people have difficulties dealing with life because of mental problems

True: Children are grossly over-medicated for mental "health" issues.

Wrong: People are less defined by who they are by their actions, than by how their mind works

Mental health in the United States is terribly underappreciated and oftenly abused. I think a very large issue would be that Christians can't handle the idea that we act as we do because of chemicals in our brains, not the motives of their "souls". That who we are isn't as controled by us as we'd like. There are plenty of Christians dead set against Homosexuality being a pre-born disposition because the Bible "says" it's a choice.

But on the other hand, Americans love the idea of taking a pill to feel better. We get this from an early age. When we are sick, mommy or daddy gives you something to feel better. What magical stuff! And these days, depression can be given a pill. But is it really depression or the reality sinking in that their life isn't nearly as good as they hoped it would be. They never became that always giving Christian. They are stuck in a marriage they rushed too quickly into. With a job that they loath to go to for many more years to come because of squandered wealth. Of course they feel depressed. They should, their life bites! But that doesn't mean they are clinically depressed.

The mind is such an unknown. And the predisposition of a Christian culture is to keep it unknown as the answers may suggest that we have less control over who we are than they were led to believe. Americans remain terribly ignorant of mental health, or really physical health as well (concentrating on weight and not cardiovascular fitness). The western world has a poor appreciation of standard of living quality. Typically money is the basis of such a standard, not the important things.

Until Americans awaken to what is really important, scapegoats such as depression will be sought to explain why we don't feel good all the time. But all this does not preclude that mental health issues aren't real.

[Rubia Warren]

Jimmy what do you mean by that we focus on losing weight more than cardiovascular health? Are you talking about by taking the easy way out by popping diet pills & following fads instead of hunkering down and getting proper exercise and eating healthy for the heart?
Or is there some heart info that you need to post so I can know about it? (<-- that's serious, not sarcastic)

[Rubia Warren]

To be honest, I think we have so much anxiety, panic attacks, and depression and mood swings because of the garbage we consume.
I get anxiety and panic attacks and have Xanax to help me with it. But I tell you what: it does no freakin good to get a prescription for anxiety meds and then pump yourself up with caffeine and/or sugar all day long- talk about an anxiety-causer right there! If I don't consume caffeine (or large amounts of it), I get almost no panic attacks.
We think we should be able to dump any kind of garbage into our bodies that we feel like and then take a pill when it causes us to get mentally imbalanced, or it severely aggravates a mental condition we have.
There is nothing like the feeling I have had when I am not missing any exercise and am eating fresh, healthy things instead of things that sit in my gut like a rock.
I'm serious. Our diet is horrible and driving us all nuts.

Edit: BTW before anybody says it, I was not saying that every single person eats horribly, nor was I saying that there's no such thing as mental illness, nor was I saying that nobody should take meds at all for any mental reason. I'm sure you know that but unfortunately there are people around here who wouldn't. :ahem:

[JCA]

Sadly, this is both too true and too wrong.

True: Many people want to blame their bad feelings on mental problems

Wrong: Some people have difficulties dealing with life because of mental problems

True: Children are grossly over-medicated for mental "health" issues.

Wrong: People are less defined by who they are by their actions, than by how their mind works


While I agree that many people want to use mental problems as a 'cause', I can't readily agree that it is wrong that some people have difficulties dealing with life because of them. In fact, I don't really point it out as 'life', but 'society'. Society is a part of life, but it shouldn't be all there is; and neither should it make itself so. IMHO.


Mental health in the United States is terribly underappreciated and oftenly abused. I think a very large issue would be that Christians can't handle the idea that we act as we do because of chemicals in our brains, not the motives of their "souls". That who we are isn't as controled by us as we'd like. There are plenty of Christians dead set against Homosexuality being a pre-born disposition because the Bible "says" it's a choice.


I would agree with you that there are Christians who feel this way. However, I would also point out that there are Christians who would also agree with you to a large extent. The problem is blanketing ALL of one group with a label, to suit our socialogical viewpoints. I'm sure you don't agree that all Atheists are pig-headed.. although you yourself might know a few that are. Do you get my point on this? I wasn't making this a religious issue.. nor is that a future intent of mine for this thread.

I have to agree that people abuse the mental health system, and the findings thereof.. sometimes.


But on the other hand, Americans love the idea of taking a pill to feel better.


Part of my point is that this isn't just an American issue.. it is an issue in most modern societies.


We get this from an early age. When we are sick, mommy or daddy gives you something to feel better. What magical stuff! And these days, depression can be given a pill. But is it really depression or the reality sinking in that their life isn't nearly as good as they hoped it would be. They never became that always giving Christian. They are stuck in a marriage they rushed too quickly into. With a job that they loath to go to for many more years to come because of squandered wealth. Of course they feel depressed. They should, their life bites! But that doesn't mean they are clinically depressed.


I would ask that it not be made into a Christian Vs 'whatever' issue. It is NOT part of my point, or what this is all about. Society is bigger than any one religious group, or non-religious group. As for the rest, yes I can agree. While it doesn't mean that someone is 'clinically' depressed, we still can see changes in 'personality' due to these issues.. and my point is that society is quick to label such things, rather than address some of the issues that create such un-clinical depression.

Part of my point is, I feel that some of these issues are ignored by society for the very fact that we 'allow' them to be part of society. Fixing them is just too much bother for individuals IN society.. so it seems to me, anyway.


The mind is such an unknown. And the predisposition of a Christian culture is to keep it unknown as the answers may suggest that we have less control over who we are than they were led to believe.


Once again, mate.. this isn't what I'm talking about. Societies issues aren't all based within religion, or religious groups. BUT, I will give you that in many instances, religions are helping the situation. So what? This is a societal problem.. not a 'Christian' one.


Americans remain terribly ignorant of mental health, or really physical health as well (concentrating on weight and not cardiovascular fitness). The western world has a poor appreciation of standard of living quality. Typically money is the basis of such a standard, not the important things.


I can also agree with this. So why do we not work towards changing that? What is stopping those of us IN society from teaching what is important? I put it to you that we can't because we are in fact caught up IN society, and barely have time for ourselves, let alone issues that involve all of us as a whole.


Until Americans awaken to what is really important, scapegoats such as depression will be sought to explain why we don't feel good all the time. But all this does not preclude that mental health issues aren't real.


Well I'm glad I never said that mental health issues aren't real then :wink: I happen to think they are. What I am saying is that when society DOES see an issue with peoples behavior, it is very quick to label it, classify it, then find a way to punish it - if it's thought to be anti-society - rather than examine the cause, and see that it's deeper than the label given.


IN Love and Peace

JCA

[Jimmy Higgins]

Jimmy what do you mean by that we focus on losing weight more than cardiovascular health? Are you talking about by taking the easy way out by popping diet pills & following fads instead of hunkering down and getting proper exercise and eating healthy for the heart?American society typically bases health by the look and weight of a person. Not by how fit they are. The cow herding people typically do with the fad diets, including the hoax of Atkins easily shows how people want to lose weight, not be healthy, as Atkins is a dangerous (well, dangerous is a bit exaggerating, but it certainly isn't "safe" either) diet to be on.

Or is there some heart info that you need to post so I can know about it? (<-- that's serious, not sarcastic)Being skinny doesn't mean your body is in shape. Cardiovascular health isn't hurt by being skinny, but it isn't the savior solution either. That's why one must exercise, exercise, exercise!

[Spinyn00bman]

oftenly .

oftenly???

[JCA]

oftenly???

I'm sure you understood what he meant.. was there a point to your post to do with the OP, or was it something you could have taken to PM? :wink:

Please, keep on, or at least with, the topic.. I don't need to make this harder than it will be with irrelevent side issues. :smile:


Much appreciated!

In Love and Peace

JCA

[Jimmy Higgins]

I would agree with you that there are Christians who feel this way. However, I would also point out that there are Christians who would also agree with you to a large extent. The problem is blanketing ALL of one group with a label, to suit our socialogical viewpoints. I'm sure you don't agree that all Atheists are pig-headed.. although you yourself might know a few that are. Do you get my point on this? I wasn't making this a religious issue.. nor is that a future intent of mine for this thread.My statement came out more blanketed than I appreciated when I typed it. And I guess my intention was more of recognizing the conflicts inherent with the Western Societal mindset, which is based heavily within christian ideaology and philosophy, but not solely. Certainly christians whether they are uber-conservative to uber-liberal have the same issues, as would people of any western religion. I know personally, I have found much greater peace and understanding reading far eastern scripts than western scriptures.

Part of my point is that this isn't just an American issue.. it is an issue in most modern societies.Of atleast the Western mindset. Western philosophy varies greatly with eastern philosophy. Whether this carries over today in the Far East, I'm ignorant of, though I'm sure anthrogirl or beherenow would be good at filling in those blanks.

I would ask that it not be made into a Christian Vs 'whatever' issue. It is NOT part of my point, or what this is all about. Society is bigger than any one religious group, or non-religious group. As for the rest, yes I can agree. While it doesn't mean that someone is 'clinically' depressed, we still can see changes in 'personality' due to these issues.. and my point is that society is quick to label such things, rather than address some of the issues that create such un-clinical depression.Yes, fully agree. I think one very good example of exposing this would be shell shock or the severe anxiety that occured in some soldiers. How the military deals with this real problem went from executing the soldier back in WWI to trying to fully treat the issue as a true psychological problem today, though there are huge stigmas regarding such issues of anxiety today.

Part of my point is, I feel that some of these issues are ignored by society for the very fact that we 'allow' them to be part of society. Fixing them is just too much bother for individuals IN society.. so it seems to me, anyway.Or perhaps human beings have constructed a system that has become too much for us to handle. I was pondering with my girlfriend over the weekend about having children and what an appropriate age would be. That some people have children at 18 or 21 or 25 which would seem way too early for today's culture. The culture of America has changed drastically and most Americans are trying to stay within the bounds of societal norms of two generations ago when the extended family wasn't so fragmented. Where support was possibly more available in those days by family members (anyone feel free to kick me in the butt if this is wrong) than there exists today.

In my opinion, having children before 30 today seems very risky, as money is too important and usually the support system doesn't exist to compensate for that priority.

I think the culture of society in the US has expanded much faster than our ability to handle the culture. The sum of the whole is way bigger than the individuals within it.

Once again, mate.. this isn't what I'm talking about. Societies issues aren't all based within religion, or religious groups. BUT, I will give you that in many instances, religions are helping the situation. So what? This is a societal problem.. not a 'Christian' one.I agree religion can help (read Freud), but religion can also hurt (read Freud). As much as some people want to think it, the US is a christian culture. That culture varies from person to person, which allows for many anchors to be set on differing realities, controlling the willingness of certain people to accept certain truths, from the age of the earth to the influence of genetics on the human psyche and behavior. This can be as much as a help as it is a hinderance!

I can also agree with this. So why do we not work towards changing that? What is stopping those of us IN society from teaching what is important? I put it to you that we can't because we are in fact caught up IN society, and barely have time for ourselves, let alone issues that involve all of us as a whole.Naw. I disagree. The reason that these changes can't be made are two-fold.

First, society is too big for us to handle right now. It has grown quicker than we can mature as a species.

Second, most people just don't have the ability to see the issues, nevermind come up with the solutions to them. To put it bluntly, mankind is too dumb to deal with it. Hence the rationalizing of certain things to make life not as painful or meaningless.

Well I'm glad I never said that mental health issues aren't real then :wink: I happen to think they are. What I am saying is that when society DOES see an issue with peoples behavior, it is very quick to label it, classify it, then find a way to punish it - if it's thought to be anti-society - rather than examine the cause, and see that it's deeper than the label given.Very very true. It would be nice if this wasn't the case. Sadly, with the invention of the internet, the truth can be disseminated as quickly as the lies. And worse yet, there are people with an inherent distrust to anything that doesn't match their worldview (see the war against evolution). It is much easier to find inner peace than it is to give the inner peace to someone else. The novel Siddhartha teaches us that. And therefore, the only way, possibly the only way ever, to try and improve society is to improve our ownselves. It may be futile, but atleast we, individually, will be better for it.

[InTheEnd]

While it is very easy and nice for us to say that people arn't of right mind and debate whether mental health problems are real or not, I think the way we handle things and whether or not we are victims of society is because of us. We as people of a right mind were created to make descisions, meaning we can choose to listen to society, or choose to listen to God. I know this is a very debatable topic... but that is one of the reasons God sends people who don't choose to follow him to hell, because he knows that everyone has a choice and a mind to choose it with. Society, pills and TV are all influencing factors that we can choose whether or not to listen to.

[JCA]

While it is very easy and nice for us to say that people arn't of right mind and debate whether mental health problems are real or not, I think the way we handle things and whether or not we are victims of society is because of us. We as people of a right mind were created to make descisions, meaning we can choose to listen to society, or choose to listen to God. I know this is a very debatable topic... but that is one of the reasons God sends people who don't choose to follow him to hell, because he knows that everyone has a choice and a mind to choose it with. Society, pills and TV are all influencing factors that we can choose whether or not to listen to.

In some ways I can agree with you, in others I think it may take you a little more time to 'see' the effects. And BTW, hello InTheEnd :flowers:

I think the old saying that 'we are 5% what happens to us, and 95% how we react', is very apt to what you have said. It is true that very often it is our reactions to things that shape the world around us. Many people act 'inaproprietly' when it comes to the workings of Society, in my mind. As Jimmy has pointed out, most people appear to be apathetic, or believe there is nothing they can do anyway. I think many of us look at society as a runaway train that we can't hold back.

Part of the problem may stem from us (people in society) not knowing, or beng taught, how to react properly.. which sort of leads in to the last part you said:

Society, pills and TV are all influencing factors that we can choose whether or not to listen to.


You are right.. but only to a degree. You see, this thought process you describe, the one where we choose, isn't always there. And more to the point, for the first 7 years of your life, is shaped by others. As we get older, we reach a point were we start to think for ourselves to the point of ignoring our 'basic training', and what has come before plays a big factor in that; as does society in general. So it's not always easy to exclude the influencing factors, and in fact, IMHO, we should pay more attention to them.

Society doesn't come with a handbook.. and so you have everyone in it sort of milling around, reacting not quite the same as everyone else (not that we should all be mirror images of each other), and having different expectations etc. Society is a hard teacher, and like life, very often gives the test before we understand the lesson. Maybe it's time we took society by the horns..


IN Love and Peace

JCA

[InTheEnd]

You are completely right JCA and you must forgive my age and intelligence gap :blush: (I'm not saying that sarcastically). As much as society influences our descisions, we will often in some ways benifit from some other people who have been taught to find their way out of that influence. e.g. If I have been taught from a young child how to shoplift and then go to school were I am told I should not shoplift my concience will tell me to do the right thing, therefore I have to make a descision. Or if I become depressed because I have seen too much bad news and not enough good news, there is sure to be someone I have met who manages to see good news. If there is no balance of good teaching and bad teaching then you are right, unless a miracle occurs (it has happened), we become vitims of our society, upbringing and enviroment.

[JCA]

You are completely right JCA and you must forgive my age and intelligence gap :blush: (I'm not saying that sarcastically).


Nothing to forgive :smile: And you are right about the intelligence gap.. one day I might even get to be as smart as you! :teeth: Seriously though, you do fine InTheEnd. Feel like I've known you longer anyway, considering who your mom is, and that you used to sneak looks at my site :wink:


As much as society influences our descisions, we will often in some ways benifit from some other people who have been taught to find their way out of that influence. e.g. If I have been taught from a young child how to shoplift and then go to school were I am told I should not shoplift my concience will tell me to do the right thing, therefore I have to make a descision.


While I will agree there are those that do that, can you honestly tell me, if you looked about your classroom, that the majority of those there of your age would actually listen to their conscience (or someone else sharing theirs)? You are a thoughtful person, and have been raised in such a way as to understand what your conscience is for (at least, that's my impression).. that does not appear to be the majority of people. For instance, with older people it can be money.. everyone has their price, as the saying goes.. such things can cause people to ignore their conscience. And money is only one of very many.

Societal peer pressure can also make us forget our conscience.. many people are pressured to do things they may consider wrong, just to fit into the 'group'. I'm sure you have seen this too.. a good, hard working student falls in with the wrong crowd.. grades slip etc.. Do you think they don't see it themselves? But the 'importance' of fitting in and not being seen as an outsider, over rides even common sense. I think you know what I mean :smile:


Anyway, thank you for your thoughtful responses.. If only more people your generation would be as insightful.


IN Love and Peace

JCA

[Rahab]

It seems year after year, more and more 'labels' for mental disorders appear. To me, it's like every Psyche Major has a need to find something new.. something everyone else has missed.. that is 'wrong' with us.

Bonjour JCA, Pearls for such an excellent topic. IMO, it is not so much that there is a "need to find something new". There have been ,thru medical progress and research, means to study symptoms common to specific behaviors the source of which has been identified as bio chemical interaction in the human brain. Distinctions between neurosis and psychosis for example have allowed for a better diagnosis of some disorders, thus different treatments.

As medical science was able to undertake the internal exploration of the morphology of the human brain and determine the impact of a neuron defficiency for example, behaviors which were in the past attributed to mythical causes have been clarified as being of clinical origine thus to be treated medicaly.

However, what I am stating here does not perclude the reality that many people are overmedicated or tragicaly misdiagnosed with a clinical disorder when they are actualy going thru what I refer to as a "socialy induced depression".

If I asked my gran what 'bi-polar' was, she would wonder if I was talking about white bears with homosexual tendencies. So many new things they never had 'back then'. Then again, she also wanted to put tape over all the plug sockets because she thought they 'leaked' electricity.. and was a major reason for 'static electricity'. Had to love my Gran. I think most of us have in our "elders" examples of sweet folks whose understanding of natural phenomenons was mostly tainted by "old women's tales". On my mother's side, superstition was to the point of obsession! There was always some type of impending doom if you crossed your fork and knife on the table!

Anyway, the thing is, more and more 'things' are being blamed for peoples depression, and anger etc.. drink, drugs, mental disorders etc.. and yet it seems to me that everyone is missing the one biggest common denominator.. Society.

Within it, we allow sorts of things, deny others, and have an over abundance of labels. Society itself is so complex, with it's laws, taxes, religions, people etc., that it is actually an out of control juggernaut. With very slow steps towards some good, it also takes steps towards bad. An example is Nuclear Energy.. and the weapons you can create with it too. With every increase in funding in one arena, a decrease is felt elsewhere.. it is a juggling act, and the fact that you have to throw in several different societies all mixed within this one BIG society - places like the USA, Europe etc. - is it any wonder that some people get major headaches.. or depressed.. or go just plain crazy? I agree that the lack of consistancy and order in any particular societal model may cause people to feel unsafe and "out of control". Things "spinning out of control" around us triggering anxiety and stress.

However, our emotional response to spinning out of control circumstances is still dependent on our bio chemical and often hormonal profile. I can assure you that as a woman, I know when and why my hormonal changes are going to affect my emotional response to any given situation. Certainly, though, the context in which we live can provoke "major headaches" and "depression" or a major breakdown leading to a "crazy" behavior. Some folks will interiorize their fears, anxiety or anger, letting them accumulate without any means to "decompress". That not so uncommon phenomenon of self repression can lead to a sudden dysfunctional reaction even destructive. The most self controled in appearance folks may "snap".



Why is it when Joe robs a store and kills someone in the process, the fact that he had a beer and smoked some pot becomes the reason? What on earth was causing Joe to take those things in the first place? People might say society failed the victim in such an instance.. but if you look at it standing back, everyone lost.. No doubt that Joe's criminal behavior does not stem from the beer and a joint.Some folks are simply proned to violent behavior and utilize drugs or alcohol as a "decompression" tool. Any inhibition they may have had to restrain from exhibiting violence disappears under the effects of any reality alterating substance. IMO, some criminal activities would be better prevented if society as a whole started to promote anger management control counseling and rehabilitation for individuals identified as high risk for substance abuse.

As an aside, the therapeutic use of marijuana previously prescribed in California mostly for chemo cancer patients to counteract nausea, anxiety, depression and loss of appetite showed no increase of agitated or violent behavior. On the contrary. Pot users are usualy not the ones who will attack a 7/11.

All society can do is put a bandaid on such issues.. blame a 'thing' (illness, drug, bad parents, bullying etc.), as it cannot come right out and point to itself and say.. Hmm.. maybe *I* have a problem. I am not sure if the "I" refers to how we, as social animals, fail to rescue or comfort those who are mentaly ill,or addicted to drugs, or in abusive homes or victimized by bullies etc....Or if you mean "I" as any person who violates laws or acts anti social and blames any of the factors you have mentionned.

I prefer to understand your "I" as our failure to focus on preventative measures. For example, I can see no productivity in crowding jails with drug addicts. As if a fine or jail sentence for posession of illegal drugs is going to remedy the problems of chemical and psychological dependency.

Now, don't get me wrong.. as I stated, society has made progress towards 'good'. But it is not right yet. And quite frankly it IS depressing when you look at how society can be manipulated. For instance, a press release about some tycoon has had dealings with a country the government doesn't like.. his stocks fall.. businesses close, people go out of work.. someone is suffering. This can all be untrue.. he may never have had any deralings with said people.. but the damage is done. I'm not even going to say that this was done malisciously.. does it matter? This causes our now unemployed Joey above to drink, so on, and on. Unemployment is definitly a contributing factor to depression. So is divorce. Death of a loved one(especialy spouse as it tends to affect the income level). The example you related is the inevitable consequence of a lack of collective conscience. That is : our responsibilty to reflect on how our actions or statements may affect negatively our fellow human beings. In any profit centered mentality society, the "little guy" does not count. Joey is an expandable and disposable social security number.


Lastly, I want to say that this appears to be a rant.. and in a way it is. :teeth: But not without reason. You see, I do happen to believe that there is something wrong with society. Not that it is ALL wrong, or that it needs to be scrapped and everyone rise up right now blah blah blah. Only that it seems that people are not looking deep enough for some of the 'ills of society'. We are too quick to blame symptoms.. patch it, and move on.


Please discuss.

IN Love and Peace

JCA IMO "we patch the symptoms" because we have yet to be an equipping and rehabilitative society. We will use welfare to prolongue poverty instead of utilizing those funds to provide free professional formation and place folks in secure employment.

But when it comes to clinical conditions and diagnosed accurately as such, it is absolutly vital to understand that treating the symptoms of a psychosis for example will make the difference between functional behavior and dysfunctional behavior. If not medicated to control delusion and hallucinations, such person will undoubtly not be able to function or worse will exhibit behaviors destructive to himself/herself or others.

You are probably familiar with the name Andrea Yates. A tragic reality of her symptoms of schizophrenia not having been managed properly. She most probably experienced what is refered to as a "psychotic crisis". Many forewarning symptoms of a crisis preceeded her drowning her 5 children. Including the careless decision of her family to expect her to function properly in an environment where she was left alone and responsible of the welfare of those children on a daily basis.To include her psychiatrist having reduced her dose of anti psychotic drugs which resulted in an increase of cyclic delusion and hallucinations.

Who is to blame for such a tragic loss of promising lives? Her family not managing her mental health care program and expecting a schizophrenic to respond and interact as any other mentaly functional individual. Giving her tasks which implied a clear discernment of what is real and what is not real. Dismissing the misperception of reality schizophrenics suffer of (delusion). Dismissing physical manifestations of her mental distress and dereliction as she , according to her mother in law, would walk in circles, rocking back and forth for hours. Muttering to herself phrases which made no sense. Hiding in a closet from the "voices".(that should have been the red flag as to the wrong dosage of anti psychotic drugs).

That fragile woman, living in a perpetual mental distress, was left to care alone for those children. It is only last week, that her lawyer was able to have her transferred to a mental health care facility.

Who should be on trial JCA? Our laws which entrust way too often a next of kin to care for a disabled family member. Where no supervision is exercised over their ability and capacity to insure that someone like Andrea will be efficiently medicaly treated. We are those laws. Our society is.

We use laws as a quick fix. We empower some to exercise the responsibility to care for others while assuming that they always have their best interest at heart. That they are educated enough to demand the best medical care. That they will not shelter in denial as they face the prospect of a lifelong battle against a destructive and uncurable mental illness.

How many of us "look out" consciously for anyone in our social circles who may be withdrawn or showing signs of depression? Are we not conditionned to accept that unless someone speaks out their distress to us, they are OK? Are we being vigilent over the teen kids our own kids will take home for a visit? Do we detect "red flags" when such teen suffers of morbid obesity (one contributing cause of suicide for teens)? Do we reach out just in case the kid will talk about how he/she really feels? Are we equipped and educated enough to detect potential signs of drug use in our teens'peers?

Do we move about in our own circles with a sense of mission that there may be someone to rescue out there? IMO, that is the real problem, JCA. We lack that sense of urgency to be on this planet to help one another.

We cannot deny that God has equipped each of us with "radars" to detect the discouragement or despair of someone facing a loss of employment, a divorce, a catastrophic illness or disability, loss of a loved one, any type of hard
ship circumstances bound to affect their appreciation of life and at times God Himself. We have the capacity and ability to feel for them and offer whichever assistance, comfort, presence. We ought to be able to draw in towards us those who suffer of rejection and have isolated themselves to protect themselves from such pain.

Society, JCA, needs to have a "heart" for itself. It needs to empathize. To exercise compassion. It needs to be wise and prevent rather than react after the fact.

The solution: each individual determination to use those "radars" is bound to be contagious to others. We are that society you refer to. We can only change any state of apathy or indifference by our own individual "mission".

[FreezBee]

Anyway, the thing is, more and more 'things' are being blamed for peoples depression, and anger etc.. drink, drugs, mental disorders etc.. and yet it seems to me that everyone is missing the one biggest common denominator.. Society.

Hi JCA! Interesting topic you have here :thumb:

And interesting deduction (to quote Mononke :smile: ) - society is indeed the one biggest sommon denominator, so that ought to be, where we should look for the causes.

The tricky bit here is of course that we are ourselves part of society! Often when talk is about society, it is as if "we" that are talking are not part of society, but of course we are. If "we" are malfunctioning, society is malfunctioning, and if society is malfunctioning, "we" are malfunctioning.

Within it, we allow sorts of things, deny others, and have an over abundance of labels. Society itself is so complex, with it's laws, taxes, religions, people etc., that it is actually an out of control juggernaut. With very slow steps towards some good, it also takes steps towards bad.

You here talk about society as an "it", as if society exists in itself, though you do shart with saying: [w]ithin it, we ..." Yes, society isn't an object apart from humans - "we" are society. Laws don't exist without some of us to make them, some of us to break them, and some of us to peck on those who break them - assuming they did!

When born we are born into an existing society with certain success criteria - depression may come from accepting those criteria but being unable to meet those criteria. For instance being wealthy is a criterium of success in the USA, so if you are poor, you may become depressed - you may then try to become wealthy by gambling, becoming criminal, or simply giving up, perhaps even becoming Christian (though not a <name of denomination withheld> - because they believe that only wealthy people will be saved :smile: ).

An example is Nuclear Energy.. and the weapons you can create with it too. With every increase in funding in one arena, a decrease is felt elsewhere.. it is a juggling act, and the fact that you have to throw in several different societies all mixed within this one BIG society - places like the USA, Europe etc. - is it any wonder that some people get major headaches.. or depressed.. or go just plain crazy?

No, and good point :thumb:

Why is it when Joe robs a store and kills someone in the process, the fact that he had a beer and smoked some pot becomes the reason? What on earth was causing Joe to take those things in the first place? People might say society failed the victim in such an instance.. but if you look at it standing back, everyone lost..

You are right here - it's not drinking beer and smoking pot that is the cause. The influence of such toxics may lower Joe's ability to judge his actions, but they do not cause the actions, so sure, we should look at why Joe needs to drink beer and smoke pot for him to feel that he works in society.

All society can do is put a bandaid on such issues.. blame a 'thing' (illness, drug, bad parents, bullying etc.), as it cannot come right out and point to itself and say.. Hmm.. maybe *I* have a problem.

Excuse me for pointing it out to you again :bow: but you start in third person with "society" and up in first person with "I"! As if you are not part of society. Society is all of us, so if society has a problem, we all have a problem. Unfortunately, society does not exist as a single individual, so societ cannot point the finger at itself - only you can point your finger at yourself. Some individuals need to start the ball rolling - but will "society" let them?


- FreezBee

[candistyx]

http://www.davidsmail.freeuk.com/talk02b.htm