Do people ever enter heaven???(help)

[ChristKid]

Well umm. . .here's the thing. My friend wants to preach a certain sermon to the church, and he wants me to help. The thing is I'm not sure if I agree. I think it's more of a I don't want to believe it thing. Anyway he says that when you die you stay in the ground until the ressurection. The thinks after the trib. and everything people live in the Kingdom of God, which is not heaven. It's just God's kingdom on earth. He gave me these verses to back it up.

John 13:36 "Where I go you cannot follow..."

Acts 2:29-34 "Patriarch David both died and was buried...David did not ascend into the heavens."

Matt. 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

So what are your thoughts on this??? Please help.

[RevSteve45]

Well umm. . .here's the thing. My friend wants to preach a certain sermon to the church, and he wants me to help. The thing is I'm not sure if I agree. I think it's more of a I don't want to believe it thing. Anyway he says that when you die you stay in the ground until the ressurection. The thinks after the trib. and everything people live in the Kingdom of God, which is not heaven. It's just God's kingdom on earth. He gave me these verses to back it up.

John 13:36 "Where I go you cannot follow..."

Acts 2:29-34 "Patriarch David both died and was buried...David did not ascend into the heavens."

Matt. 7:21 "Not everyone who says to me 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

So what are your thoughts on this??? Please help.

ChristKid,

Yes, when a Christian dies, his soul & spirit go DIRECTLY to Heaven. We know this is true, because Paul said:

2 Cor 5:8, We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (KJV)

Therefore, when a Christian dies, and his soul & spirit are separated from his body, he is "absent from the body, and...present with the Lord." Where is the Lord? Up in Heaven, of course!

It is the BODY of the Christian that does not go to Heaven until the First Resurrection, which begins with the Rapture of the Church:

1 Cor 15:51-55, Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
(KJV)

The reason our bodies must be changed, is because they are currently "corruptible," i.e. subject to decay. Our new bodies will be incorruptible, i.e., NOT subject to decay.

I Jn 3:2, Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. (KJV)

Now, regarding your friend's objections:

1. It is true that the disciples could not, AT THAT TIME, go where Jesus was going. They could not go there until they died.

2. It is true that David, nor ANY of the other OT saints, could enter Heaven, until after Christ died & resurrected. According to the story Jesus told of the Rich Man & Lazarus, the righteous dead in the OT time went to Abraham's Bosom, which was part of Hades, or the underworld.

However, when Jesus resurrected, He took the OT saints to Heaven:

Eph 4:8-10, Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (KJV)

3. Yes, it is TRUE that not all who say, "Lord, Lord," shall enter into Heaven. Only those who are born again, and therefore obey the commandments of Jesus, will enter into Heaven.

In His Service,
Steve

[Socrates]

RevSteve45 is right. ChristKid's friend seems to have bought into the soul sleep heterodoxy, so should not be allowed to preach this sermon in current form.

[bar Jonah]

Yesterday @ 09:00 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=148105#post148105)
Socrates:

RevSteve45 is right. ChristKid's friend seems to have bought into the soul sleep heterodoxy, so should not be allowed to preach this sermon in current form.
Yes, it almost sounds like ChristKid's friend is a Jehovah's Witness or an Acts 28 dispensationalist or something... :hrm:

[mickiel]

Let the wisdom of the hearer seperate what they will.

[ChristKid]

Well my friend isn't a JW, but he does believe that we do sleep until the second coming. But thx a lot! I'll try to reason with him now. :thumb: :rockon:

[mossrose]

Remember, also, that Jesus said to the thief on the cross, "Today you will be with me in paradise." Obviously that meant that the soul of the thief would be with the Lord, that very day. Not at the Second Coming, nor any other future time, but "today".