What is the purpose of organized religion?

[SuzieQue]

It is stated that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways. Often times I hear people say that they believe in God but not organized religion. This is where the double mindedness manifests itself with me and several other people I know. It has been easier to claim atheism than explain the conclusions we've come to about organized religion. At the same time, looking at people within the traditional church system, I see that many are happy and able to keep a better hold of their faith ie., they are not shaken so easily.
While I hold no contempt for those who have chosen the traditional route in their walk, I cannot seem to blend it into my life. For instance, tithing, not giving of free willis a major area of disagreement with the mainstream churches. All except the Watchtower Society appear to believe this is a necessary expression of faith. I will decide to attend church --then in January as the yearly budget is being discussed the issue of the tithe is preached from the pulpit. It is taught as part of the law in which I have no hope! I have not lived an exceedingly righteous life and there is no faith in the concept of works for me. There never has been. In my studies I see no reason for any attempt to acquire the blessings of Abraham by tithing and this teaching is currently infiltrating all denominations I have experienced. Again, the opposition is not to giving financially, just the tithe --as preached most noticeably by the charismatic church. I was not first a Jew with a legal mandate to tithe! My only link with the God of Abraham is Jesus Christ and never once does He tell a gentile they should tithe and their relationship with God will be enhanced by it.
So why go to church and be in disagreement with them? There is no way to change my mind on this subject and it is very important to most churches that eventually, as a part of growth in Christianity, that a person accepts the tithe as a God given duty. Neither do I want to live at odds with my brothers and sisters in christ so I am tossed in my soul about the subject and as the scripture has stated am unstable in all my ways. :sigh:

By the same token, I do not understand Zionism in its entirety, if Jesus Christ is our salvation why are so many convinced that we are supposed to help in implementing an Israeli state? Is the kingdom not spiritual in essence and completely apart and separate from the middle east section of the earth? Every church I've ever been to has taught me that is in God's purpose to preserve the state of Israel. I do know that we are to pray for Israel's peace but find it contrary to my faith to think that we are supposed to support Israel (the earthly kingdom) in whatever situation they find themselves. Sometimes the situations are of their own making and it would be wrong to put a seal of approval just because we see Israel as the Great Teacher's pet and hope to gain favor with God because of our stance.

[shunyadragon]

It is stated that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways. Often times I hear people say that they believe in God but not organized religion. This is where the double mindedness manifests itself with me and several other people I know. It has been easier to claim atheism than explain the conclusions we've come to about organized religion. At the same time, looking at people within the traditional church system, I see that many are happy and able to keep a better hold of their faith ie., they are not shaken so easily.
While I hold no contempt for those who have chosen the traditional route in their walk, I cannot seem to blend it into my life. For instance, tithing, not giving of free willis a major area of disagreement with the mainstream churches. All except the Watchtower Society appear to believe this is a necessary expression of faith. I will decide to attend church --then in January as the yearly budget is being discussed the issue of the tithe is preached from the pulpit. It is taught as part of the law in which I have no hope! I have not lived an exceedingly righteous life and there is no faith in the concept of works for me. There never has been. In my studies I see no reason for any attempt to acquire the blessings of Abraham by tithing and this teaching is currently infiltrating all denominations I have experienced. Again, the opposition is not to giving financially, just the tithe --as preached most noticeably by the charismatic church. I was not first a Jew with a legal mandate to tithe! My only link with the God of Abraham is Jesus Christ and never once does He tell a gentile they should tithe and their relationship with God will be enhanced by it.
So why go to church and be in disagreement with them? There is no way to change my mind on this subject and it is very important to most churches that eventually, as a part of growth in Christianity, that a person accepts the tithe as a God given duty. Neither do I want to live at odds with my brothers and sisters in christ so I am tossed in my soul about the subject and as the scripture has stated am unstable in all my ways. :sigh:

By the same token, I do not understand Zionism in its entirety, if Jesus Christ is our salvation why are so many convinced that we are supposed to help in implementing an Israeli state? Is the kingdom not spiritual in essence and completely apart and separate from the middle east section of the earth? Every church I've ever been to has taught me that is in God's purpose to preserve the state of Israel. I do know that we are to pray for Israel's peace but find it contrary to my faith to think that we are supposed to support Israel (the earthly kingdom) in whatever situation they find themselves. Sometimes the situations are of their own making and it would be wrong to put a seal of approval just because we see Israel as the Great Teacher's pet and hope to gain favor with God because of our stance.

There are some issues here of interest, but as whole scope of organized goes it is a rather narrow slice. Considering all the religions of the world within a practical context, organized religion has many functions in all societies. The perpetuation of beliefs through generations by way of printing books teach diciples and children, and the social institutions of marriage and rites of passage up to and including death and burial have traditionally been apart of organized religion. Included with these services are traditional support for the poor and less fortunate not provided for by the rest of society. Tything has a more practical mundane purpose other than just a mandatory obligation, way to buy divine favor, or recognition of some kind. Tything supports these institutions that support the people.

Modern western society has become rather schitzophrentic mix of hot, luke warm and cold, secular, soft and materialistic religious affiliations, in part they are no longer as dependent on providing many of these needs as they were in the past where secular social structures were absent or weak. Many people do keep the thread holding them to the past despite apathetically avoiding association with religon in everyday life they still rely on organised religions for basic services such as baptism, marriage, and burial services even though they may avoid their obligations at other times. There is a lot of rivalry, division and a diversity of organized religions to chose from as well as disorganized choices, and lately some religions have become aggressively materialistic to buy converts from the less unfortunate immigrant populations. Catering to the lost soul market is a big corporate business today, with a lot of people church shopping to find which shoe fits.

Compounding this is an overwhelming ignorance of religion and philosophy in the western world despite swimming in a sea of knowledge available from many sources. The best seller lists of books are overwhelmed by poorly writen religious fiction, and watery canned 'How to' books.

I would not exclude the JW from the requirements to tyth. On the surface this appears so, but they have their ways and needs too.

[Augusta]

There is a short article here in the Tweb forum, "Tithing: is it New Testament?," which is well written. It's by Elliot Miller. I think he is affiliated with the Christian Research Journal (editor?) His answer to the question is actually "NO." He contrasts the concepts of "tithing" vs. "giving" and provides plenty of scriptural support. He also recognizes how controversial this issue is. I thought it was a good read; however I didn't feel comfortable with the idea of tithing to begin with, so there was initial bias on my part. If this is an area of interest for you, you might want to try a search on "tithing." There have been a number of threads devoted to this topic on Tweb.

I've not done a link before, but will try below. The article was posted on August 31st 2004 , 11:39 PM.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=36937&highlight=elliot+miller

[SuzieQue]

There is a short article here in the Tweb forum, "Tithing: is it New Testament?," which is well written. It's by Elliot Miller. I think he is affiliated with the Christian Research Journal (editor?) His answer to the question is actually "NO." He contrasts the concepts of "tithing" vs. "giving" and provides plenty of scriptural support. He also recognizes how controversial this issue is. I thought it was a good read; however I didn't feel comfortable with the idea of tithing to begin with, so there was initial bias on my part. If this is an area of interest for you, you might want to try a search on "tithing." There have been a number of threads devoted to this topic on Tweb.

I've not done a link before, but will try below. The article was posted on August 31st 2004 , 11:39 PM.

http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/showthread.php?t=36937&highlight=elliot+miller
Thank you for the link, it's nice to feel connected. Like I don't have to give up my christianity simply because I disagree with some people about tithing. It's also encouraging to be reminded to give anyway.

[zorathruster]

Religion has many purposes. It's foundation is in the development of societies. Using religion, 'Big Men' were able to justify their position and authority.

There is not a way to balance actual transgressions to proper punishment. Religion gets people to abide by a set of rules and promises reward for proper actions and equitable punishment for improper actions.

Community is reinforced by gathering everyone together and getting them to reinforce a social custom. It doesn't take much effort or commitment to believe true or ordinary things, it takes true commitment to profess odd or blatantly false things. Showing your willingness to participate in oddities whether "eating bodies and blood" or jumping off a tressle with vines tied to your legs or even taking payote buttons shows a commonality with community.

We all fear death. Problem is, we all die. Religion perports to solve the problem with reserection or heaven. Fact of the matter no one has come back and no one will. You die, what ever you are able to accomplish in this life is what you did. The effect you had on others is all that will be left, and a few minerals.

Those are just the few right off the top of my head, there are more, but they don't validate religion as true, just something we do for actual reasons.

[Sheli]

It is stated that a double minded man is unstable in all his ways. Often times I hear people say that they believe in God but not organized religion. This is where the double mindedness manifests itself with me and several other people I know. It has been easier to claim atheism than explain the conclusions we've come to about organized religion. At the same time, looking at people within the traditional church system, I see that many are happy and able to keep a better hold of their faith ie., they are not shaken so easily.
While I hold no contempt for those who have chosen the traditional route in their walk, I cannot seem to blend it into my life. For instance, tithing, not giving of free willis a major area of disagreement with the mainstream churches. All except the Watchtower Society appear to believe this is a necessary expression of faith. I will decide to attend church --then in January as the yearly budget is being discussed the issue of the tithe is preached from the pulpit. It is taught as part of the law in which I have no hope! I have not lived an exceedingly righteous life and there is no faith in the concept of works for me. There never has been. In my studies I see no reason for any attempt to acquire the blessings of Abraham by tithing and this teaching is currently infiltrating all denominations I have experienced. Again, the opposition is not to giving financially, just the tithe --as preached most noticeably by the charismatic church. I was not first a Jew with a legal mandate to tithe! My only link with the God of Abraham is Jesus Christ and never once does He tell a gentile they should tithe and their relationship with God will be enhanced by it.
So why go to church and be in disagreement with them? There is no way to change my mind on this subject and it is very important to most churches that eventually, as a part of growth in Christianity, that a person accepts the tithe as a God given duty. Neither do I want to live at odds with my brothers and sisters in christ so I am tossed in my soul about the subject and as the scripture has stated am unstable in all my ways. :sigh:

By the same token, I do not understand Zionism in its entirety, if Jesus Christ is our salvation why are so many convinced that we are supposed to help in implementing an Israeli state? Is the kingdom not spiritual in essence and completely apart and separate from the middle east section of the earth? Every church I've ever been to has taught me that is in God's purpose to preserve the state of Israel. I do know that we are to pray for Israel's peace but find it contrary to my faith to think that we are supposed to support Israel (the earthly kingdom) in whatever situation they find themselves. Sometimes the situations are of their own making and it would be wrong to put a seal of approval just because we see Israel as the Great Teacher's pet and hope to gain favor with God because of our stance.

Suzie,

The purpose of Organized Religion is to provide a "Vicarious Faith" for those who are attracted to such Organized Religion.

Many people think our Country was founded upon "Freedom of Religion," but this is actually an oxymoron, a mutually exclusive statement. No man can remove our freedom to believe in God, and to serve Him. If socalled "Religious Freedoms" are being threatened or removed, then they are not God given freedoms, given in Scripture, and are just humanly contrived conventions apart from God.

The original documents for our Country did address "Religious Freedom," but those freedoms merely provided for institutionalized religion, not for individual religion. Notice that all religions and churches in America enjoy the same privilages, protections and resources as an economic business. If any of those assets are threatened, Christians immediately cry, "FOUL !!", even though Scripture says they are to welcome persecution for their faith.

And, please do not be deceived by many people today who try to say Christians should not be "Religious." Read James 1:27, where God instructs us to in fact be religious, according to His true definition of "Religion." Busy little Christians today who speak against "Religion" are just playing another of their word games, in order to sound important.

The reason I said, above, "Vicarious Faith" is that Organized Religion today makes it very easy for people to just show up at church, and let a professional leader go through all of the motions, thinking, and talking for them. All they have to do is just nod their little hearts in agreement, pay their tithes, and not get into trouble of any kind.

Naturally, Organized Religion, and its leaders, want to perpetuate this system, and make it look like the Will of God.

This Forum is owned and moderated by people who support Organized Religion.

Sheli.

[shunyadragon]

Suzie,

The purpose of Organized Religion is to provide a "Vicarious Faith" for those who are attracted to such Organized Religion.

Many people think our Country was founded upon "Freedom of Religion," but this is actually an oxymoron, a mutually exclusive statement. No man can remove our freedom to believe in God, and to serve Him. If socalled "Religious Freedoms" are being threatened or removed, then they are not God given freedoms, given in Scripture, and are just humanly contrived conventions apart from God.

The original documents for our Country did address "Religious Freedom," but those freedoms merely provided for institutionalized religion, not for individual religion. Notice that all religions and churches in America enjoy the same privilages, protections and resources as an economic business. If any of those assets are threatened, Christians immediately cry, "FOUL !!", even though Scripture says they are to welcome persecution for their faith.

And, please do not be deceived by many people today who try to say Christians should not be "Religious." Read James 1:27, where God instructs us to in fact be religious, according to His true definition of "Religion." Busy little Christians today who speak against "Religion" are just playing another of their word games, in order to sound important.

The reason I said, above, "Vicarious Faith" is that Organized Religion today makes it very easy for people to just show up at church, and let a professional leader go through all of the motions, thinking, and talking for them. All they have to do is just nod their little hearts in agreement, pay their tithes, and not get into trouble of any kind.

Naturally, Organized Religion, and its leaders, want to perpetuate this system, and make it look like the Will of God.

This Forum is owned and moderated by people who support Organized Religion.



I do feel your view does seem to somewhat contradictory in the end from the beginning by singling out 'Organized Religion' with statements that generalize about negative aspects. The reality is people 'organize' religions around that which they believe. Individuals still may exercise their intellect and investigate different religions and make freewill choices, but other than a little church shopping most people do not go far a field.

I feel it is wrong to throw a word around like stones, whether 'Religion' or 'Organized Religion', when the fact is the responsibility is with people who for the most part remain tethered by a thread, and chose to remain comfortable and ignorant in a sea of knowledge.