The Tongue

[furay]

My brethren I struggle with controlling my tongue. Lack of self restraint in speech is one of my most persistent sins. How do I tame my tongue? When I start the day I tell myself to speak only when it is necessary, but sooner or later I find myself blathering out all sorts of vulgar trash not fit for a witness to Christ. Who else shares this problem? Has anyone conquered it? Advice please.

Here is some scripture dealing with this issue.

"For if we put bits into the mouths of horses, that they may obey us, and we turn about their whole body. Behold also ships, whereas they are great, and are driven by strong winds, yet are they turned about with a small helm, whithersoever the force of the governor willeth. Even so the tongue is indeed a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold how small a fire kindleth a great wood.

And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is placed among our members, which defileth the whole body, and inflameth the wheel of our nativity, being set on fire by hell. For every nature of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of the rest, is tamed, and hath been tamed, by the nature of man: But the tongue no man can tame, an unquiet evil, full of deadly poison. By it we bless God and the Father: and by it we curse men, who are made after the likeness of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Doth a fountain send forth, out of the same hole, sweet and bitter water? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear grapes; or the vine, figs? So neither can the salt water yield sweet."


"And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his own heart, this man's religion is vain."


"Be steadfast in the way of the Lord, and in the truth of thy judgment, and in knowledge, and let the word of peace and justice keep with thee. Be meek to hear the word, that thou mayst understand: and return a true answer with wisdom. If thou have understanding, answer thy neighbour: but if not, let thy hand be upon thy mouth, lest thou be surprised in an unskillful word, and be confounded. Honour and glory is in the word of the wise, but the tongue of the fool is his ruin."

"He that keepeth his mouth, keepeth his soul: but he that hath no guard on his speech shall meet with evils."


And the Lord tells us:

"But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

[technomage]

Frequently, vulgar speech is a result of the company we keep, and the desire to be "accepted" by that company. To start curbing my vulgar tongue, I had to start keeping less vulgar company.

Praying for you, bro.

[Aletheia]

I was going to say the same thing as Justin. I struggle with this myself and I find that my language becomes more, ummm, colorful, when I surround myself with others (in person or through movies) who use similar language. :blush:

[furay]

Thank you friends, but perhaps I should be more clear. When I wrote vulgar trash I didn't mean obscenities per se, I have mostly eradicated those from my vocabulary a long time ago (with a few slips here and there :blush:), but rather I'm referring more to useless speech particularly destructive towards others... judging them for example. Also, constantly beating people over the head with my opinions and my thoughts simply to inflate my pride. All this idle talk which does not further the Kingdom of Heaven, just my ego... :frown:

[Aletheia]

but rather I'm referring more to useless speech particularly destructive towards others

Oh THAT kind of vulgar language.

Actually, I still think the company we keep (even online) does much to cause us to behave in a similar manner. Online, for example, I find that I have to use a "measure twice, cut once" rule. I write a post, read it, edit it, reread it, ask myself if there is anything there that I will regret saying, and then post it.

I'd like to say that I do the same in my face to face dialogues. I'm working on it. :frown:

[furay]

Oh THAT kind of vulgar language.

Actually, I still think the company we keep (even online) does much to cause us to behave in a similar manner. Online, for example, I find that I have to use a "measure twice, cut once" rule. I write a post, read it, edit it, reread it, ask myself if there is anything there that I will regret saying, and then post it.

I'd like to say that I do the same in my face to face dialogues. I'm working on it. :frown:
That's awesome! God Bless you for your self-discipline.

But yeah, reading threads on Tweb can often rile me up. Someone will say something offensive to me and I find myself taking the bait. Or, something in real life is bothering me and I'll take it out on Tweb by spouting a bunch of hurtful stuff to my brothers and sisters. :frown: I will try to apply your rule, but satan won't like it. :wink:

[Aletheia]

I will try to apply your rule, but satan won't like it.


:hug: Hugs to you. I'm new here, but you have a friend in me if you ever need to vent, or need a word of support, or need a prayer.

[furay]

:hug: Hugs to you. I'm new here, but you have a friend in me if you ever need to vent, or need a word of support, or need a prayer.
Thank you. I offer that right back at you as well. :smile:

[Amazing Rando]

Thank you friends, but perhaps I should be more clear. When I wrote vulgar trash I didn't mean obscenities per se, I have mostly eradicated those from my vocabulary a long time ago (with a few slips here and there :blush:), but rather I'm referring more to useless speech particularly destructive towards others... judging them for example. Also, constantly beating people over the head with my opinions and my thoughts simply to inflate my pride. All this idle talk which does not further the Kingdom of Heaven, just my ego... :frown:

Furay dude- you're one of the most gracious and least argumentative folks here on Tweb. We love you and we'll pray for you. :smile:

[Alien]

There used to be a piece of wisdom that went "Count to ten before you speak". I have found that if I take time to actually think about what I am about to say (or post) then I have less tendency to offend others. I don't always do this, unfortunately, but it's the best advice I have. A side benefit is that you sometimes realise that the person you are mad at didn't mean what you thought he meant, and that can save a lot of embarrassment and apologies. :smile:

[Aletheia]

A side benefit is that you sometimes realise that the person you are mad at didn't mean what you thought he meant, and that can save a lot of embarrassment and apologies. :smile:

:thumb:

[furay]

Furay dude- you're one of the most gracious and least argumentative folks here on Tweb. We love you and we'll pray for you. :smile:
Thanks, but I don't feel that way. Still, this applies mostly to my life outside the internet. I find it very hard to hold to the old adage: 'If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.' Imagine if we all lived governed by this rule? Life would be more pleasant for sure! :smile:

[furay]

There used to be a piece of wisdom that went "Count to ten before you speak". I have found that if I take time to actually think about what I am about to say (or post) then I have less tendency to offend others. I don't always do this, unfortunately, but it's the best advice I have. A side benefit is that you sometimes realise that the person you are mad at didn't mean what you thought he meant, and that can save a lot of embarrassment and apologies. :smile:
This is a very good and solid piece of advice. Thank you.

[Amazing Rando]

Thanks, but I don't feel that way. Still, this applies mostly to my life outside the internet. I find it very hard to hold to the old adage: 'If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.' Imagine if we all lived governed by this rule? Life would be more pleasant for sure! :smile:

You bet, mate. That is a biblical adage, even if it's not stated as such in the Bible! :yes:

[Lady Gooner]

Whatever else people do when they come together- whether they play, fight, make love, or make automobiles-they talk. We live in a world of language. We talk to our friends, our associates, our wives, our husbands, our teachers, our parents, and our in laws. We talk to bus drivers and total strangers. We talk face to face, and over the telephone, we talk on the internet (yes some of us do that one rather a lot) and everyone responds with more talk. Television and radio further swell this torrent of words. Hardly a moment of our waking lives is free from words and even in our dreams we talk aloud in our sleep. We talk to our pets and sometimes ourselves. (Ok I admit I have been known to do that once or twice, well it’s the only way I get a decent conversation and at least I know the other party is listening!!)

When you know a language, you can speak and be understood by others who know that language. Everyone knows a language. Five-Year-old children are almost as proficient at speaking and understanding as are their parents (and believe me I know). Yet the ability to carry out the simplest conversation requires profound knowledge that most speakers are unaware of. Knowing what is being said includes more than understanding and associating meaning to words.

Listening accurately is one of the most important factors in communicating fully. The accuracy with which we listen relates directly to how we respond. It is something that we seem to take for granted because it is such a simple thing. People tend to listen less accurately in daily life than they would care to admit. As you listen you are already preparing for what you are going to say or do after you have finished listening. The mind is split and already coming to conclusions before it has fully heard.


Often the listener “tunes out” because we don’t like what we hear, what they are saying and how they are saying it. The listener has to be open to allow the speaker to fully release his ideas.

The first requisite for effective delivery is a captive audience. To understand what has been said there must be clear conception of the author’s intention, A revelation. Something that enables us to see the true meaning to the exclusion of all other possibilities. In order to express with definiteness the thoughts and sentiments of God we must be sensitive and able to listen. Its no good if all we do is chat chat chat. After all a conversation is a collaboration based on co-operation.

God’s Perspective

The Bible is the history of those who have crossed over from the Land of promise, from slavery to freedom, from darkness to light from the old to the new creation and from death to life.


Dedicated Service
1 Therefore I urge you, brethren, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies a living and holy sacrifice, acceptable to God, which is your spiritual service of worship.
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.



21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from these things, he will be a vessel for honour, sanctified, useful to the Master, prepared for every good work.
22 Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
23 But refuse foolish and ignorant speculations, knowing that they produce quarrels.
24 The Lord's bond-servant must not be quarrelsome, but be kind to all, able to teach, patient when wronged,
25 with gentleness correcting those who are in opposition, if perhaps God may grant them repentance leading to the knowledge of the truth,
26 and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, having been held captive by him to do his will.

So how do we do this ?




Jesus Is the Vine--Followers Are Branches

1 " I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2 "Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He ] prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3 " You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4 " Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5 "I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6 "If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned.
7 "If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
8 "My Father is glorified by this, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be My disciples.
9 "Just as the Father has loved Me, I have also loved you; abide in My love.
10 " If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love; just as I have kept My Father's commandments and abide in His love.
11 " These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.

God’s Timing
Beautiful speech depends upon truthfulness, which in turn is dependent on majesty of the instrument. Speech has two instruments, language and voice, and command of both of these makes our speech beautiful. Gods’ speech is just this, although I personally am yet to actually hear his voice audibly. The language He uses mirrors a mind that thinks very literally. It is not there purely as a poetic ornament or device. The Bible is a challenge to our “common logic” and way of thinking.

Sometimes it is easy to unlock the language beneath the words, even if there appears to be no direct expression of emotion. And at other times we haven’t a clue. Communication is dependent largely on giving and receiving messages. One function of speech is to communicate needs. If you are talking trivialities it is not the triviality that is important---it is the need to speak them that matters.

Silence and subtext

Sometimes we find it tremendously hard to remember how powerful the theatrical effect of silence can be. Some of us never know when to shut up! Silence in performance can exist only as an interruption to the sound. If action is going on, it will derive a special quality from the silence. The sequence may be building towards a climax, and the silence may play an important part in the progression. Even 2 seconds of hesitation before the word “yes” makes it stronger than it would otherwise be, and the effect of the big silence is inseparable from that of the yes. A prolonged silence can work powerfully if it starts out of a tension and doesn’t last long enough to destroy it.

The power of Speech



15
O Lord, open my lips,
that my mouth may declare your praise.


LEARN TO BE SILENT BEFORE YOU DECIDE TO SPEAK

as


A time to tear apart and a time to sew together;
A time to be silent and a time to speak.



“The mouth should ‘contain’ only the words of godliness. When the mouth becomes a vessel ruled by the spirit of God then His word will be found there”
Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person.


God’s command to Joshua showed us how to always have a life that is salt and light. 8 " This book of the law shall not depart from your mouth, but you shall meditate on it day and night, so that you may be careful to do according to all that is written in it; for then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have success.

The Torah says that God spoke “mouth to mouth” with Moses. Some translations say face to face.



With him I speak mouth to mouth,
even openly, and not in dark sayings,
and he beholds the form of the LORD.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant, against Moses?"


God did not remove any impediment that Moses had when he went back to Egypt instead He said

12 "Now then go, and I, even I, will be with your mouth, and teach you what you are to say."

And again with Balaam



35 But the angel of the LORD said to Balaam, "Go with the men, but you shall speak only the word which I tell you." So Balaam went along with the leaders of Balak.


The Lord is with us if we know His word then He will speak for us


19 " But when they hand you over, do not worry about how or what you are to say; for it will be given you in that hour what you are to say.

The Father of Lies

Only through deception can Satan rob us of our freedom; and it is only through Gods truth that freedom can be regained



44 " You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth because there is no truth in him. Whenever he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies.



Truthful lips will be established forever,
But a lying tongue is only for a moment.


The tongue is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole person, sets the whole course of life on fire and is itself set on fire by hell



The Tongue Is a Fire
1 let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment.
2 For we all stumble in many ways. If anyone does not stumble in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to bridle the whole body as well.
3 Now if we put the bits into the horses' mouths so that they will obey us, we direct their entire body as well.
4 Look at the ships also, though they are so great and are driven by strong winds, is still directed by a very small rudder wherever the inclination of the pilot desires.
5 So also the tongue is a small part of the body, and yet it boasts of great things. See how great a forest is set aflame by such a small fire!
6 And the tongue is a fire, the very world of iniquity; the tongue is set among our members as that which defiles the entire body, and sets on fire the course of our life, and is set on fire by hell.

Pharaoh is a prime example of one who misused his mouth. By the powers of his speech he had the Jews enslaved, commended that their children be cast into the Nile, made false promises to Moses, boasted against God and initiated military operations against the Jews as they neared the Red sea. A study of pharaoh’s life reveals a man of evil actions and of EVIL SPEECH.



26 If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man's religion is worthless.


But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison.




Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices,

Solomon wrote

Like apples of gold in settings of silver
is a word spoken in right circumstances.

And isn’t that true, When the words of wisdom from God’s Torah reside in mouths that are surrendered to his sovereignty then the resulting words will be aptly spoken.




Description of a Citizen of Zion.

A Psalm of David.
1
O LORD, who may abide in your tent?
Who may dwell on your holy hill?
2
He who walks with integrity, and works righteousness,
and speaks truth in his heart.
3
He does not slander with his tongue,
nor does evil to his neighbour,
nor takes up a reproach against his friend;

[Lady Gooner]

ps as you can see I havent quite got mine under control yet either :ahem: :nc:

[stabalizer]

My brethren I struggle with controlling my tongue. Lack of self restraint in speech is one of my most persistent sins. How do I tame my tongue? When I start the day I tell myself to speak only when it is necessary, but sooner or later I find myself blathering out all sorts of vulgar trash not fit for a witness to Christ. Who else shares this problem? Has anyone conquered it? Advice please.

Here is some scripture dealing with this issue.

"For if we put bits into the mouths of horses, that they may obey us, and we turn about their whole body. Behold also ships, whereas they are great, and are driven by strong winds, yet are they turned about with a small helm, whithersoever the force of the governor willeth. Even so the tongue is indeed a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold how small a fire kindleth a great wood.

And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity. The tongue is placed among our members, which defileth the whole body, and inflameth the wheel of our nativity, being set on fire by hell. For every nature of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of the rest, is tamed, and hath been tamed, by the nature of man: But the tongue no man can tame, an unquiet evil, full of deadly poison. By it we bless God and the Father: and by it we curse men, who are made after the likeness of God. Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.

Doth a fountain send forth, out of the same hole, sweet and bitter water? Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear grapes; or the vine, figs? So neither can the salt water yield sweet."


"And if any man think himself to be religious, not bridling his tongue, but deceiving his own heart, this man's religion is vain."


"Be steadfast in the way of the Lord, and in the truth of thy judgment, and in knowledge, and let the word of peace and justice keep with thee. Be meek to hear the word, that thou mayst understand: and return a true answer with wisdom. If thou have understanding, answer thy neighbour: but if not, let thy hand be upon thy mouth, lest thou be surprised in an unskillful word, and be confounded. Honour and glory is in the word of the wise, but the tongue of the fool is his ruin."

"He that keepeth his mouth, keepeth his soul: but he that hath no guard on his speech shall meet with evils."


And the Lord tells us:

"But I say unto you, that every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment. For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned."

To acknowledge the issue is a work of God, it's called conscience with a conviction

1) listen more

2) meditate on scripture

3) shut off the tv

4) when vulgar conversation starts, walk away.

Press on brother, press on.

btw when you do mess up, ask forgiveness asap then forgive yourself and start again.

( thoughts unspoken, die unborn )

[furay]

ps as you can see I havent quite got mine under control yet either :ahem: :nc:
:hehe: Your words were very well crafted and helpful. Thanks.

[furay]

To acknowledge the issue is a work of God, it's called conscience with a conviction

1) listen more

2) meditate on scripture

3) shut off the tv

4) when vulgar conversation starts, walk away.

Press on brother, press on.

btw when you do mess up, ask forgiveness asap then forgive yourself and start again.

( thoughts unspoken, die unborn )
This is a pious undertaking. I will press on, equipped with your good advice. Thank you. The television can be a truly monstrous device...

[Cynic Sage]

You bet, mate. That is a biblical adage, even if it's not stated as such in the Bible! :yes:

I don't think that's a Biblical adage.


5 Better is open rebuke
than hidden love.

6 Wounds from a friend can be trusted,
but an enemy multiplies kisses.



That, is a Biblical adage my friend.

[whollybologna]

First of all let me say how elequent and well versed you all are, I never cease to be amazed by the gentle people I have found here on theology web.

I have found that if I take time to actually think about what I am about to say (or post) then I have less tendency to offend others

this is one thing I, personally have a serious problem with. i am constantly sticking my foot in my mouth so to speak, talking first and thinking later. my friends tell me I have no tact, and to some extent they're right. there's nothing to say that i wouldn't say what I was going to say whether I thought about it or not. and in some cases, I've thought about it, then said it anyway. my problem perhaps is over thinking, or perhaps thinking about what Could happen should I not say anything rather than what would happen if I said what I was going to say. I am trying to be more Godly, on the boards and off, and I'm finding sometimes I seem to refer to my childhood days of throwing tantrums and 'kids say the darndest things'-isms. Perhaps you could Pray that God give me maturity in my speech as well as in my mannerisms?
thanks

'If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all.' Imagine if we all lived governed by this rule?

that said, I think I would know a lot of people who wouldn't say very much (myself included somedays)

God Bless!

[Cynic Sage]

First of all let me say how elequent and well versed you all are, I never cease to be amazed by the gentle people I have found here on theology web.


This "theologyweb" you speak of, could you tell me where it is? I would very much like to visit such a place.























:hehe:

[furay]

this is one thing I, personally have a serious problem with. i am constantly sticking my foot in my mouth so to speak, talking first and thinking later. my friends tell me I have no tact, and to some extent they're right.
Tact, yes... just the word I was looking for. I lack it too, sister!

there's nothing to say that i wouldn't say what I was going to say whether I thought about it or not. and in some cases, I've thought about it, then said it anyway. my problem perhaps is over thinking, or perhaps thinking about what Could happen should I not say anything rather than what would happen if I said what I was going to say. I am trying to be more Godly, on the boards and off, and I'm finding sometimes I seem to refer to my childhood days of throwing tantrums and 'kids say the darndest things'-isms.
I can totally relate. If you don't mind let me quote a line from one of my favorite songs:

As I come of age
I keep fallin' down
And I feel just like a schoolboy
I was in a senseless rage
Runnin' too hard
And I tore you all to pieces

Yes but it's all over now
I'm a little bit older now
The lessons that I'm learnin' now
Gonna make it easy
Somehow...
Sometimes I just feel... out of control... and I know this is not Christ-like behaviour, for we must crucify the flesh and all its passions.

Perhaps you could Pray that God give me maturity in my speech as well as in my mannerisms?
thanks
I can and I will and indeed I already have. The Lord bless you.
that said, I think I would know a lot of people who wouldn't say very much (myself included somedays)
Ain't that the truth!

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

What has helped me to is to bear our own mortality in mind. You're gonna die, and so is the person you're about to speak to. You haven't got forever to make amends before that happens. I think it was Charles Dickens who said that at Christmas time there is a tendency for the upper class to - on occasion - see the lower class as "fellow passengers to the grave."

That should affect our human relationships, just because we have to be ready for the fact that they are temporary relationships (as far as we know - what comes next is too wonderful for me to even speculate on sometimes). In other words, you don't have all day to love these people, so do it while you still can.

[furay]

:yes: How easy it is to forget that our time sojourning here on earth is finite. Thank you for the reminder.

[Lady Gooner]

What has helped me to is to bear our own mortality in mind. You're gonna die, and so is the person you're about to speak to. You haven't got forever to make amends before that happens. I think it was Charles Dickens who said that at Christmas time there is a tendency for the upper class to - on occasion - see the lower class as "fellow passengers to the grave."

That should affect our human relationships, just because we have to be ready for the fact that they are temporary relationships (as far as we know - what comes next is too wonderful for me to even speculate on sometimes). In other words, you don't have all day to love these people, so do it while you still can.

ouch that hit hard ~ very sobering thank you for the reminder

For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ;

21who will transform the body of our humble state into conformity with the body of His glory, by the exertion of the power that He has even to subject all things to Himself.

[Larry Ancil]

My brethren I struggle with controlling my tongue. Lack of self restraint in speech is one of my most persistent sins. How do I tame my tongue? When I start the day I tell myself to speak only when it is necessary, but sooner or later I find myself blathering out all sorts of vulgar trash not fit for a witness to Christ. Who else shares this problem? Has anyone conquered it? Advice please.

One thing that has been of an asset to me in this regards is being concerned with my choice of words. Not just the meaning or impact, but giving consideration to the precise words and what the conveyed meaning will be. This tends to slow me down a good deal.

I am also generally operating with the understanding that if I am offended, then I am wrong. To be offended at what people say means that I have placed too much value there. If what they say is a lie, then my knowledge of that should keep me at peace. If what they say is true, then I should accept correction wisely. Try to keep in mind that we are often provoked and though it may not have been directly the devil's doing, it furthers his work.

Peace be with you.