Christian Anarchism

[Spiritus Naturae]

I frequent quite a few pacifist sites as I find many of their arguments compelling and well, they just make me think. One site in particular advocates a form of Christian Anarchism. I don't know a whole lot about the idea, only what I've read there. Any TWeb Christian Anarchists?

Anyone else familiar with the notion of "Christian Anarchism"?

http://www.jesusradicals.com

[Abigail]

I frequent quite a few pacifist sites as I find many of their arguments compelling and well, they just make me think. One site in particular advocates a form of Christian Anarchism. I don't know a whole lot about the idea, only what I've read there. Any TWeb Christian Anarchists?

Anyone else familiar with the notion of "Christian Anarchism"?

http://www.jesusradicals.com

Drop Solly a line next time he's about as I am sure I've been to that site and I think I got the address from him.

[studyhound]

Here si the wiki def:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism

Also try site unseen they have topics on this covered:
http://zoecarnate.com/

[Spiritus Naturae]

Here si the wiki def:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_anarchism

Also try site unseen they have topics on this covered:
http://zoecarnate.com/


Thanks, studyhound! :thumb: Always a fount of hidden knowledge are ye! :yes:

[Ryokan]

May I be the first to yell: Pinko comie fools!!!!

Well, now that that is out of my system, I am uncomfortable with it on several grounds. I don't think its practically workable, and given in alot of ways churches are insitutions, I don't think Christian anarchism is particular Christian.

[Spiritus Naturae]

May I be the first to yell: Pinko comie fools!!!!

Well, now that that is out of my system, I am uncomfortable with it on several grounds. I don't think its practically workable, and given in alot of ways churches are insitutions, I don't think Christian anarchism is particular Christian.

Right. I also read a "Deconstruction" of Romans 13 verses 1-2, that one of the main contributors to the site did. It wasn't too convincing. She states the subtle difference between subject and submit and that we should not submit and obey earthly government, more or less. Problem is she makes no mention of the fact that Paul very clearly mentions 'paying taxes' and 'honor' and 'custom' to whom appropriate, that is the government or powers that be. She completely ignores this portion of the chapter.

Not a very good exegesis of the chapter. Found here: Deconstructing Romans 13 vs 1-2 (http://www.jesusradicals.com/essays/theology/Romans13.htm)

[rmwilliamsjr]

Jacques Ellul is my favorite in the field.
with J.H.Yoder a close second.
check out Sojourners, the other side as well as jesus radicals.

they have an excellent online library at:
http://www.jesusradicals.com/library.php

there is another good source at:
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/anarchist_archives/index.html

if you ever need to index into the literature online google kropotkin.

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Jaques Ellul is, of course, not an anarchist, just so as not to confuse the thread starter. He holds rather that the State has an obligation to obey God.

[rmwilliamsjr]

Jaques Ellul is, of course, not an anarchist, just so as not to confuse the thread starter. He holds rather that the State has an obligation to obey God.

i would read at least the introduction to _anarchy and christianity_ before i assumed this "of course" position.

http://www.jesusradicals.com/library/ellul/anarchy/anarchy.pdf

even the wiki speaks to this issue

Jacques Ellul

Jacques Ellul (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacques_Ellul) (1912 - 1994) was a French thinker, sociologist, theologian and Christian anarchist. He wrote several books against the "technological society", and some about Christianity and politics, like Anarchy and Christianity (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anarchy_and_Christianity&action=edit) (1991) explaining that anarchism and Christianity are socially following the same goal.




however, i would be interested in seeing you prove your point, as i have been interested in Ellul for many years, and to my memory have never seen anyone say "of course he is not an anarchist" as did you.

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

even the wiki speaks to this issue
Notice how careful the wiki entry is not to say that Ellul was an anarchist, instead saying that he considered anarchism and Christianity to be socially following the same goal.

My "of course," far from being something I just assumed, was based on what I've seen from Ellul in his book The theological Foundation of Law, in which he argues that the law does not or at any rate should not have its origin in the state, but in God, and so the law and the state both derive their legitimacy from God:

Is law superior to the state, or does the state dictate the law? … Today the problem seems to have found its solution in the omnipotence of the state, manipulating law as it pleases to the exclusion of any concept of justice… Biblical teaching does not leave the slightest doubt on this point. The state is subordinated to law, and this in two ways. First, the state is not the creator of law. Law exists independently of the state. It is directly related to the righteousness of God. Human law is not at all a rational product, designed to fit man’s purposes, and receiving its authority from the state. In order to be purely subject to the state, law would have to be purely a product of reason. This is indeed the modern understanding of law in relation to the state. The state must be based on reason. This will enable it to dictate any law whatever, since law is also dependent on reason. But if law flows from another source and obeys another rule, the state loses its power over it. Law does not receive anything from the state. On the contrary, it receives its authority from God, as does the state.
As I understand anarchism, to endorse the state insofar as it is divinely ordained and gains authority from this fact, no less than the law gains it's authority from God, is not a position likely to be espoused by an anarchist.

I'm bothered now, I seem to have misplaced my copy of this book....

[Dr. Jack Bauer]

Incidentally, the work of Ellul that I cited is very popular among Theonomists, and if you'd like a copy of it, you can get a free electronic version at http://contra-mundum.org/books/TheoLaw.pdf

[lackofknowledge]

1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Tim 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,

[rmwilliamsjr]

anyone read:

Human Scale
by Kirkpatrick Sale (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author-exact=Kirkpatrick%20Sale&rank=-relevance%2C%2Bavailability%2C-daterank/102-8502438-2478522)

i've considered it the best introduction to anarchism i've seen.

[studyhound]

1 Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
1 Tim 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,

:huh:

[A Cup of No]

:huh:

rofl

[lackofknowledge]

:huh:

Christian anarchism is an oxymoron.The title itself should be a warning to anyone wanting to venture into worldly discussions that have nothing to do with christianity.