Do demons appear today?

[doulos]

I was just wondering. I have heard many churches teach that demons can appear, in physical form, today. I have heard that they appear and taunt you or can even attack you. I have heard pastors say that to get rid of them you have to rebuke them. My understanding from Jude is that only God can rebuke satan and his groupies. Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks.

[Neison]

I agree that they can appear, but I'm not sure how often it would occur. One thing to consider are what people call 'ghosts' -- which are probably, in fact, demons posing to lead seekers astray. As far as taunting -- I would instead consider some instances of temptation as demon induced. Attacking? Doubtful but surely possible.

You can rebuke them in the name of Jesus. Read Mark 5 & 9 and Matthew 7 for some instances.

[BeHereNow]

I'll tell you this story, but take it with a grain of salt since I don't interpret it from a Christian perspective.

When I was about 13 I had an experience I'll never forget. At that time, I had a futon bunk bed, the kind with the retractable couch on bottom. The frame was metal, so it would squeak if it was pushed or rocked. I would usually sleep in the bottom part with the mattress in couch position, leaving a void under the top bunk and beside me.

So this night was very typical. I laid down to bed around 10pm and, as usual, I couldn't sleep (I used to have insomnia). I had probably been lying there for not even 10 minutes, still wide awake, when all of a sudden my bed started shaking violently. I was being rocked back and forth, and the frame was going EEK! EEK! EEK! EEK! squeaking very loud. Needless to say, I was terrified. To make things worse, I also saw a dark figure at the foot of my bed who had his arms crossed. He was laughing at me (head tilting back a bit when he laughed), calling me names ("Look how pathetic you are! What's a matter little boy, scared? Where's your god now?" That kind of thing.), but he was seriously the least of my problems. I was more concerned with my bed violently shaking. (I should note that I'd never seen Exorcist at this time and never heard of this type of thing)

I was petrified. All I could do at first was just lie there trying to figure out what was going on, but then I thought to scream. My brother's room was adjacent to mine, and it was nothing new for us to be able to hear each other if we yelled. So I screamed at the top of my lungs for help. No answer. Screamed again. No answer. And still, the figure I thought was Satan himself continued berating me.

A period of time elapsed, I really don't know how long it was, and I worked up the courage to get up and run. I bolted through door, into my brother's room and he was sitting there reading. I asked if he heard me scream and he didn't. Now, there's no physical way to explain why he wouldn't have been able to hear me. But he didn't.

Most people I tell this story to ask if I was sleeping. I can assure you that I wasn't, because I would've liked nothing better than to believe it was a dream. Unfortunately, this was only 1 of 3 events like this. Other times were less dramatic, though. More like demonic visitations, and only once did I see Satan and not just demons.

As I said, I do not interpret this literally as being Satan and demons terrorizing me. I lean to the hypnogogic hallucination explanation. But this is a theology forum, not my soap box, so I'll leave it at that.

In faith and humility,

BHN

[Ric]

Yes, demons appear in every spam :spam: I get in my e-mail box!

No, seriously now...
Yes, demons do appear all of the time in many forms. The demons can not do anything to us as Christians - but they will always try to mislead us. Also it is refreshing to know as a Christian a demon can not invade our bodies like a demon can invade an unbeliever's body!

07-16-2003 @ 12:58 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=150151#post150151)
doulos:

I was just wondering. I have heard many churches teach that demons can appear, in physical form, today. I have heard that they appear and taunt you or can even attack you. I have heard pastors say that to get rid of them you have to rebuke them. My understanding from Jude is that only God can rebuke satan and his groupies. Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks.

[doulos]

WHy do some say we can rebuke the demons?

[Piebald]

I was being rocked back and forth, and the frame was going EEK! EEK! EEK! EEK! squeaking very loud. Needless to say, I was terrified. To make things worse, I also saw a dark figure at the foot of my bed who had his arms crossed. He was laughing at me (head tilting back a bit when he laughed), calling me names ("Look how pathetic you are! What's a matter little boy, scared? Where's your god now?" That kind of thing.), but he was seriously the least of my problems. I was more concerned with my bed violently shaking. (I should note that I'd never seen Exorcist at this time and never heard of this type of thing)


That is truly frightening. Are you sure it wasn't some sort of intense night terror?

I started having brief waking dreams when I began to take paxil. It was really bizarre, but I never experianced anything too frightening. It almost always took the form of someone being in my room. One time I briefly saw a black shape (kind of like the monsters in "They") coming through my wall. Made me jump!

[BeHereNow]

doulos:

WHy do some say we can rebuke the demons?

You can. Just call for the name of Jesus, trust me :teeth: It works. Jesus commands authority over all demons.

Hamster:

That is truly frightening. Are you sure it wasn't some sort of intense night terror?

I started having brief waking dreams when I began to take paxil. It was really bizarre, but I never experianced anything too frightening. It almost always took the form of someone being in my room. One time I briefly saw a black shape (kind of like the monsters in "They") coming through my wall. Made me jump!

Well, I do believe a hypnogogic hallucination is a sort of night terror. It's an extreme hallucination that occurs either before sleep or during sleep (remember that your brain produces the most powerful hallucinagen known to man--DMT).

As for you seeing black figures, I had no idea Paxil did that kind of thing to you. But I guess the drug is messing with your mind, which is where hallucinations come from...

Respectfully
BHN

[doulos]

You can. Just call for the name of Jesus, trust me It works. Jesus commands authority over all demons.


What about Job 1:9. Isn't this an example to show us that we should leave the rebuking of demons to God? I know that the apostles had the power to rebuke demons, but I think that was probably just a sign gift. Or not? What do ya'll think?

[FirstSunday33ad]

Today @ 09:12 AM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=156236#post156236)
doulos:



What about Job 1:9. Isn't this an example to show us that we should leave the rebuking of demons to God? I know that the apostles had the power to rebuke demons, but I think that was probably just a sign gift. Or not? What do ya'll think?

Jesus is God. When you call upon His name you are calling on God to rebuke the demon. This demonstrates love and faith in God and acknowledges His supremacy over Satan.

[BeHereNow]

doulos:

What about Job 1:9. Isn't this an example to show us that we should leave the rebuking of demons to God? I know that the apostles had the power to rebuke demons, but I think that was probably just a sign gift. Or not? What do ya'll think?

Before Jesus came, the average person couldn't just call on God. They typically had to do rituals, sacrifices, etc. With Jesus came the enlightenment of knowing that all you need is faith and love to access the throne of God.

[Marcus1962]

I believe that it still happens. Satan hasn't been banished from this world yet.

I have seen a couple of apparitions also. I prayed for protection from whatever they were and they disappeared. I never had the poltergeist phenomena though.

[darcutm]

First...
yes demons appear but not to our natural eye....If you saw them with your natural eye you would see them all the time...but they are spirits and you see them in the spirit...(which can be a lengthy topic so we won't get into it)
If we didn't what would be the point of the gift of discerning of spirits in 1 Corinthians 12?

about us rebuking devils....
James 4:7 says "Rebuke the devil and he'll flee from you."
First we know he's writing to the church b/c in the next chapter he asks "Is any sick amongst you, LET HIM CALL FOR THE ELDERS OF THE CHURCH".
Notice it's a command, a statement in the imperitive, so the understood subject is YOU...YOU rebuke the devil....
notice also that it says he'll flee from you...it doesn't say he'll flee from God or Jesus...he'll flee from YOU....
As far as Jude 9, It's Old Covenant...The OC was written for spiritually dead people. The New Covenant is different in many regaurds...There's not any writers that tell us that if we pray to God He'll do anything about the devil.
Notice Jesus came to His disciples:
Matthew 28:18

18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
KJV
Well as seen in Mark 16th chapter He immediately delegated that power to the church.
Also in Mark 16
Mark 16:17-18

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18.They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
KJV
He immediately tells them one of the first things they'll experience is authority over the devil...THEY will....not God...We don't pray God you speak with tongues. No--You do the speaking...We don't pray God lay your hands on the sick. No--You lay your hands on the sick.

1 Peter 5:8-9

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.
KJV
Notice that in talking about the devil it says we are to resist him.

Hope this was some help.
IN HIM

[David O]

Darcutm;

James 4
7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

Rebuke is the wrong word. Resist is what it says. We are not to rebuke them. The angel said to Satan, "The Lord rebuke you."

Jude 1
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.
11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

[Little Cow]

David O.

Darcutm used the word resist as well as rebuke in his post. And rightly so because the Bible shows instances in which believers did both. The Bible tells us to do both. (See the scriptures in Darcutm's post(again)).

Jesus had authority over the devil and demon spirits and he gave it to us.

Here is one of the instances in which Jesus described the authority of the believer.

Mark 16:17-18
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
KJV

Jesus said In my name THEY shall cast out devils.

Casting out sounds alot like rebuking to me. Casting out has force. Resisting isn't a forceful verb. Resisting is staying away from temptation and those types of things.

David O:

Rebuke is the wrong word. Resist is what it says. We are not to rebuke them. The angel said to Satan, "The Lord rebuke you."

We are not the same as angels. Jesus didn't die on the cross for angels. He died on the cross for us and gave the authority of his name to us. Angels do not have the authority of Jesus name.

Let's keep thing in context here OK David O.

By the way, I must ask, are you a baptist?

[David O]

I don't believe I am remotely out of context. We are forbidden to rebuke the evil, even the unfallen angel didn't rebuke Satan over Moses body. You have altered the Bible to suit your desires. We are able to cast out, as God's representatives, but we can only say, "The Lord rebuke you," like the angel did, and we are as of yet "a little lower than the angels." We are not casting out by our own authority, so we may not rebuke. We can tell who the False prophets are by noticing who reviles authority and brings railing accusation against Satan. The angels do not work under another authority besides God. Notice that the angel said, "The Lord rebuke you" not I rebuke you. He was working under God's authority, and didn't require the death of His Son to stay in a right relationship with Him. You will not likely judge this angel. You may judge the ones who left their first estate and are in chains awaiting judgement. All authority is established of God.

What denomination are you?

I have recently started attending a Baptist church, after having tried out everything from Russian Orthodox to Presbyterian, to Evangelical Free to Plymouth Brethren. I was raised by an Assemblies of God Missionary. I have yet to find a church that takes the women silent in church, 6 day creation, and authority commandment of the New Testament literally, but the Trinity Baptist Church here in Austin is close, and they take care of widows and orphans and memorize the Bible. I'm sticking with them for a while, but don't buy the "Eternal Security" bit.

[darcutm]

Mark 13:33-34

33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.

34 For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
KJV

Luke 9:1
9:1 Then he called his disciples together, and gave them power and authority over all devils, and to cure diseases.
KJV

Titus 2:11-15

11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

15 These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
KJV

Obviously, there's something besides just standing there and resisting or the devil wouldn't flee....
Flee means to run from as in terror. I"m I"m just standing there, He's not going to run from me as in terror.

Yes, you quoted Psalm 8:5, but next time read v. 6
Psalms 8:6

6 Thou madest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands; thou hast put all things under his feet:
KJV

[David O]

We are a little lower than the angels. Jesus is the boss of them. We work for Jesus.

[puritan]

hi doulos,
i've read you post, and it's a logical question. i have on the other hand read some of the replys. there are many to choose from indeed. some noteworthy and some less noteworthy. to answer your question to the best of my knowledge in love is that no, demons do not appear today (at least not to the naked eye). you see, demons are noncoporeal, meaning without a body. there is however an account in Genisis 6 about the sons of God. there, some of the body of Christ belive that they were actually demons. that however, is an in-house debate amongst the body of Christ, not worhty to get into for this question due to its nature. you're talking about the appearing of them. now there are some ancient Catholic folklore's (not taking shots) concerning incubi and sucubi (i believe is the spelling). you can see some people like bob larson who instill fear in the body of Christ by telling them they exsist. don't believe it! he's making tons of money off of peoples ignorence. if demons do appear, then he's one of them!
now about rebuking them. i believe that is God's job. you've read the one reply about not rebuking them, i agree with that. Let's look at Luke 22:31. here satan himself has made a demand on Peter's life, that he would sift him like wheat! the fact that he can make DEMANDS on the lives of belivers is spooky! BUT CHRIST! He prayed that Peter's faith would stand. what if He didn't? just look at Job's account, that was just God bragging on a good and faithful servant and satan wiped his children out! brother, don't listen to the devil rebukers, they have no power over him lest the Holy Spirit! and all that non-sense about the old covenant was spiritually dead, remember Genisis1:2, the SPIRIT OF GOD was there during the creation of this world you and i call home! i've never heard of dead spirits creating worlds and animals, trees, and us!!! just recall Abraham when he made a blood covenant with God watching that torch move through those slaughtered beast! recall all the plauges of Exodus, not to mention the parting of the red sea!
now remember when you want to rebuke the devil the words of Martin Luther when he said, " thats God's devil." the only thing we can do in spiritual warfare is what the Bible says, Eph.6:10-18. By putting on the Armor of God then, and only then can we stand against the wiles of the devil. i hope this helps.

ps. not to be contintious, just really take into consideration the theology of the word of faith movement. that would be most (not all) of the trinity broadcast network (TBN). just double check everything they say, thats all. i recomend two good books to help you on this matter. the first is "Knowing Scripture" by R.C Sproul, and "Christianity in Crisis" by Hank Hanegraaff. once again, i hope this helps, and sorry for my capitalization's not being gramatically correct.

[David O]

You can see them sometimes. It's not pleasant sometimes, and very pleasant other times. The New Age is full of really pretty looking demons- at least they start out that way. You can hear them, too. If you don't focus on God, the world can seem pretty scary. He (God) is the boss, though.

[Little Cow]

David O,

You are saying that we can only resist devils and cannot rebuke them. OK... Well, we are to resist the devil if the is attacking us and he will flee from you, the bible promises that. What about an instance when a person is demon posessed. What then. How do you resist a demon posessed person. You must rebuke the demon out of them, and we are perfectly able to do that ourselves. Jesus gave us the authority to use his name to do so.

Mark 16:17
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
KJV

He said WE will cast them out. That is an aggressive action. If someone is breaking into your house you don't resist them, you cast them out. Resisting them would be like calling the police, which is good. But Jesus said "in my name they will cast out devils.

Jesus is our example right. He said to us "the works that I do, go and do thou likewise". He also said that those that came after him (believers) would do greater works than He.

John 14:12
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
KJV

Well if he is our example, and we are to do likewise as he did, then we are to rebuke the devil...

Matt 17:18
18 And Jesus rebuked him, and the demon came out of him, and the boy was cured at once.
NASU

Mark 1:25
25 And Jesus rebuked him, saying, "Be quiet, and come out of him!"
NASU

Mark 9:25
25 When Jesus saw that a crowd was rapidly gathering, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, "You deaf and mute spirit, I command you, come out of him and do not enter him again."
NASU

Luke 9:42
42 While he was still approaching, the demon slammed him to the ground and threw him into a convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the boy and gave him back to his father.
NASU


Here we have several examples of Jesus rebuking the demons.

OK, now here is the real reason why you are out of context. You have taken one scripture (the one where the angel said, "the Lord rebuke you) and have made a doctrine out of it. If you are going to have a firm belief in something then you better have more than one scripture to back it up because you can take one scripture and make it mean whatever you will...

Example:
Matt 17:19-21
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.
21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.
KJV

I can take this verse and come to the conclusion that the only way we can fight the devil is to pray and fast. Well the truth is, that is one way, but praise the Lord there are others as well. You must take in the whole council of the Word of God before you start to form beliefs off of it.

You know what, you can even say "Devil, in the name of Jesus come out", which is very similar to what you said, "the Lord rebuke you". But the plain fact is that Jesus gave us authority over Satan. The bible says that he is the god of this world, but the bible also says that we are not of this world just in it. And you know what, we have the power in it. We are in a covenant with God, and covenant means that whatever is mine is His and whatever is His is mine. Halleluah!

Now if you need more scripture to back all this up you just let me know and I will give you pages of them.:read:

Now you accused me of manipulating the scriptures to my own desires. Well let me rest assure you that I have no desire to see any devils. I just plan to keep my eyes on Jesus. Now if a devil gets in my way, well, lets just say I feel sorry for him.

If I might reccomend a book called, "The Authority of the Believer" by Rev. Kenneth Hagin. I promise you it will change your life. Go to amazon.com and check it out.

God bless.

[doulos]

Thanks to everyone for their ideas, opinions and viewpoints. It has been very helpful. I have done some study as I have watched your responses, and it has helped immensely.
I have never seen demons or had any experiences so you will have to understand if I am doubtful about the responses that seem to say that they could appear today.

What about Job 1:9. Isn't this an example to show us that we should leave the rebuking of demons to God? I know that the apostles had the power to rebuke demons, but I think that was probably just a sign gift. Or not? What do ya'll think?

On this one I meant to put Jude 1:9. Sorry. I think Jude 1:9 makes it pretty clear that it is not our job to rebuke the devil or his agents, that is up to God.


darcutm

First...
yes demons appear but not to our natural eye....If you saw them with your natural eye you would see them all the time...but they are spirits and you see them in the spirit...(which can be a lengthy topic so we won't get into it)
If we didn't what would be the point of the gift of discerning of spirits in 1 Corinthians 12?


I agree with you if what you are refering to is humans acting in a anti-christ type manner, or preaching wrong doctrine, but not to actual demons. We are to discern the spirits of men.


about us rebuking devils....
James 4:7 says "Rebuke the devil and he'll flee from you."
First we know he's writing to the church b/c in the next chapter he asks "Is any sick amongst you, LET HIM CALL FOR THE ELDERS OF THE CHURCH".
Notice it's a command, a statement in the imperitive, so the understood subject is YOU...YOU rebuke the devil....
notice also that it says he'll flee from you...it doesn't say he'll flee from God or Jesus...he'll flee from YOU....


As I think someone points out in another post, the word is not rebuke, but resist. The greek is áíôéóôçôå and means to take a stand against, or in other words resist. Yes, and if we resist the devil he will flee from us because he has no true power over us. He can only make influential suggestions to our subconcious. We have the final decision. When we resist he takes off.

The only things we are to use against satan is the defensive weapons in Ephesians 6.


As far as Jude 9, It's Old Covenant...The OC was written for spiritually dead people. The New Covenant is different in many regaurds...There's not any writers that tell us that if we pray to God He'll do anything about the devil.

Jude, old covenant? Jude was written to believers probably around the later half of the 60's.



Well as seen in Mark 16th chapter He immediately delegated that power to the church.
Also in Mark 16
Mark 16:17-18

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;

18.They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
KJV
He immediately tells them one of the first things they'll experience is authority over the devil...THEY will....not God...We don't pray God you speak with tongues. No--You do the speaking...We don't pray God lay your hands on the sick. No--You lay your hands on the sick.


"Them that believe" points back to verse 14 and is referring to the apostles. These miraculous powers were only for them and the few that they passed them on to and were only to establish the church (i know, i know, that is a whole other arguement) The point is though is that the casting out of demons was for the apostles only and not others.


Little Cow
Darcutm used the word resist as well as rebuke in his post. And rightly so because the Bible shows instances in which believers did both. The Bible tells us to do both. (See the scriptures in Darcutm's post(again)).

Where does it say we are to rebuke the devil?


I think that puritan has got it down right.

[David O]

1 John 4
1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

That's how to test them, if they seem to be angels, partial personalities, or Jesus or God Himself. They will say "no", or not answer, or go into something else. Only the spirit that affirms that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God. The rest are evil and not to be trusted.

We can cast them out. We do it as agents under God's authority, not from our own authority. They find ground to stand on in our rebellion. The sin of rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft. Adam's rebellion released death into the world.

[darcutm]

hmmmm....Rhema....The WOF school teaches and gives student's sproul's book..... :doh:

[mossrose]

[quote[I have never seen demons or had any experiences so you will have to understand if I am doubtful about the responses that seem to say that they could appear today.[/quote]

Hmmm, I have never seen George Washington or Abraham Lincoln or Queen Victoria.........or Jesus. However, I DO certainly believe that each and every one of them existed, and I don't have to see them to believe it.

I also don't think that we should be actively seeking to "see" evil spirits, just so we will believe they are there. That would not be in the category of resisting the devil, but would be more like going around saying, "Yoo-hoo! Where are you? Come and let me see you!!"

I pretty much agree with everything else you said, though.

[doulos]

Hmmm, I have never seen George Washington or Abraham Lincoln or Queen Victoria.........or Jesus. However, I DO certainly believe that each and every one of them existed, and I don't have to see them to believe it.

I also don't think that we should be actively seeking to "see" evil spirits, just so we will believe they are there. That would not be in the category of resisting the devil, but would be more like going around saying, "Yoo-hoo! Where are you? Come and let me see you!!"


I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I do believe in demons, I am just not convinced that they can or do appear to us today. I am not interested in seeing one, I was just wondering about the people who do claim to see them.

[mossrose]

[quote]Hmmm, I have never seen George Washington or Abraham Lincoln or Queen Victoria.........or Jesus. However, I DO certainly believe that each and every one of them existed, and I don't have to see them to believe it.

I also don't think that we should be actively seeking to "see" evil spirits, just so we will believe they are there. That would not be in the category of resisting the devil, but would be more like going around saying, "Yoo-hoo! Where are you? Come and let me see you!!"
”



I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I do believe in demons, I am just not convinced that they can or do appear to us today. I am not interested in seeing one, I was just wondering about the people who do claim to see them.[/quote


I do apologize Doulos. I DID misunderstand you, and by re-reading your post previous to my last one, it becomes obvious that I was in error. I still agree with everything else you said. Am I forgiven?? :bow:

[darcutm]

Yesterday @ 04:00 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=165009#post165009)
doulos:


"Them that believe" points back to verse 14 and is referring to the apostles. These miraculous powers were only for them and the few that they passed them on to and were only to establish the church (i know, i know, that is a whole other arguement) The point is though is that the casting out of demons was for the apostles only and not others.




IN that same sense Jesus was only talking to Nicodemus when He said you must be born again...Oh well I guess I've put my faith in something that wasn't intended for me and I"m going to hell.

[doulos]

darcutm:

IN that same sense Jesus was only talking to Nicodemus when He said you must be born again...Oh well I guess I've put my faith in something that wasn't intended for me and I"m going to hell.

Actually Jesus said:
"Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a man is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. "
John 3:3
Jesus did address Nicodemus here BUT was talking about man in general and not referring to Nick. If he had been talking just about Nick He would have said
Truly, truly, I say to you, Unless a YOU ARE born again, YOU cannot see the kingdom of God. "
But he did not say this, so you cannot say that He this info was just for Nick. Even if he had said this the same is repeated many times again in the rest of the scriptures when talking about all men.

[darcutm]

Mark 16 says Them that believe....how's that different?? I believe...Scripture also says all things are possible to them that believe...

And besides I never quite understand it--and I"m sure many many people here would agree to this--When somebody tries to tell you that miracles don't exist today and you've already experienced them first hand, they are too late.

[Little Cow]

I would again have to agree with darcutm on this one. The argument that miracles died out with the original apostles is not backed up by scripture. I was taught that these things didn't happen today as I was growing up, but when I actually read the Bible, I saw that these things should happen today. And you know what, they do, because I see them happen, they happen through me even (you know, since I am a believer).

[1ofWaterNFire]

I've just skimmed through the past posts, so my apologies if I say something that has already been mentioned. =P

I think demons do appear today. I'm not sure when Jesus is tempted out in the desert that Satan took a physical form or not. But I don't think demons need to take physical forms to appear to the naked eye. There are several instances in the Bible when God "opens" someone's eyes and they see what they weren't able to see before. I'm sorry I cannot recall names by memory, but one of these is when a prophet prays so that his servant's eyes are open. The servant is then able to see troops of angels. Does this mean the angels were physically appearant? I don't know, but perhaps spiritual world is another dimension. When a demon possesses a person, you don't see them go in or leave, but it's evident.

Anyways, just a thought. I'm kind of expanding upon a point someone who posted earlier had made. That demons appear to lead people astray. If you look at different cultures, they have different images of ghosts. For example, Koreans generally have pale ghosts, usually dressed in white robes. And people of different cultures seem to be attacked by the images of ghosts that they believe in. It is my thought that perhaps it's demons purposely appearing as ghosts believable to different cultures to lead them astray.

And you can cast out demons (is that what's meant by "rebuking" demons?). I know people who casted out demons, and possibly some/many of you do as well (or have yourselves). One thing for sure, demons are real and that God's name has power over them. Rebuking demons. :whack:

[darcutm]

07-31-2003 @ 04:20 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=163951#post163951)
David O:

We are a little lower than the angels. Jesus is the boss of them.

1 Corinthians 6:3 from the amplified translation:
"Do you not k now also that we Christians are to judge the very angels and pronounce opinion between right and wrong for them?

[David O]

Here's one of the reasons I use the KJV:

1 Corinthians 6
2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

We Shall, that is in the future. Jude is clear. This book doesn't negate that one. They both agree if you'll allow that you are not given the right to rebuke angels. We are, for now a little lower. We are not to rebuke them. Rebuke and resist are not the same thing. Reviling authority is indicative of the spirit of the antichrist.

[David O]

Jude
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

[darcutm]

Yesterday @ 01:27 PM post located here (http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=166920#post166920)
David O:

Reviling authority is indicative of the spirit of the antichrist.

1 John 3:14

[David O]

Your verse;
1 John 3
14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death.

It is correct to warn your brother if you see him in danger. I wish someone had warned me when I went down that (insubordinate) path, that it was the wrong one.

Jude
8 Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.
9 Yet Michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of Moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, The Lord rebuke thee.
10 But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.