The relationship between religions and the Baha'i Faith, and reasons to believe.

[shunyadragon]

Robrecht is requested not to post in this thread.

Indeed -- and I am sorry if you have encountered Bahai boosterism, or "triumphalism" to use the usual.

Debates of the differences between religions and the reasons I believe in the Baha'i Faith is not boosterism nor triumphalism.

Baha'i belief in the unity of religion(s) rests not only on religion's common origin in the Absolute, and the transforming power that, at their best, religion(s) exhibit, but also in the idea that the religions have all pointed in one direction, and that the Baha'i faith is "the next step." That linear element is a seductive invitation to triumphalism: the idea that the values and truths and community structures of the new religion make the others obsolete and they must fall away.

The two big problems with triumphalism for Bahais are first that it is a self-defeating prophecy, because a new religious community that goes around telling others that their religions are outdated and they are doomed to eventually merge into the new paradigm naturally creates resistance, and distance between the new religious group and the culture around it, so it ends up as a marginal cult. Baha'is have done lots of that.

Of course there is no alteration of the eternal ways of God. But the much in the Doctrines, Dogmas, Laws and Theology of ancient religions do not represent the eternal ways of God. Many here propose that the religion they believe in will evolve to fit the modern world, others believe that their belief will not change, because they believe that adopting to the modern world is in some way evil or wrong. The reality is that efforts to change and manipulate ancient religions to 'fit' the modern world represents humanist efforts to reform religion and results in more divisions in the religion between those that ant to change and those who do not.

The evolution of a global religious system does not threaten the continuity of the constructive part of existing religions' activities or their institutions, whether clerical or lay.

[quote=Sen McGlinn]

And so Baha'u'llah can be entirely sincere in revealing for us, a prayer to be said for the progress of Islam:



Good citation, but does not address the real issues at hand.

[JimL]

I understand the relationship factor between Bahai and other religions, but I don't see in the above the reason to believe that "god did it." Are we to take that as a given!

[shunyadragon]

I understand the relationship factor between Bahai and other religions, but I don't see in the above the reason to believe that "god did it." Are we to take that as a given!

No, I have never taken this as an assertion, nor 'that we can take this as a given.'

I am more interested in how a world view functions in the real world not what a religion claims. As far as I am concerned the Baha'i Faith, and the Humanist (Unitarian, Agnostic/atheist) function well in the real world when dealing with universal concerns of humanity. Ancient world views like Judaism, Christianity and Islam do not. They make many anecdotal claims as to how they are trying, should function or want to function in terms of the universal concerns of humanity, but they fail for various reasons addressed in this thread.

The primary focus of this thread is comparing the Baha'i Faith and other religions is how they function where the rubber meets the road, reality in the real world. Siam and others make many claims, but I focus on the bottom line.

[Adrift]

Robrecht is requested not to post in this thread.

[Bill the Cat]

Robrecht is requested not to post in this thread.

Why? I believe you are abusing this privilege Shunny.

[shunyadragon]

Why? I believe you are abusing this privilege Shunny.

This is the privilege of everyone on Tweb concerning their own threads. robrecht has a tendency to go off topic aggressively with an agenda that is not the topic of the thread.

Robrecht may start his own thread to address the issues he believes in.

If you wish to participate, please respond to the subject of the thread.

[shunyadragon]

[Adrift]

This is the privilege of everyone on Tweb concerning their own threads. robrecht has a tendency to go off topic aggressively with an agenda that is not the topic of the thread.

No he doesn't. robrecht is one of the kindest, most patient posters on this entire website. You don't want him posting in your thread because you don't like that he counters your posts with well thought out, on topic replies, and because he has the patience to put up with your ridiculous nonsense for pages at a time.

[Adrift]

Grow up.

[shunyadragon]

Grow up.

Likewise. Robrecht can easily start a thread that addresses his agenda of choice.

[shunyadragon]

No he doesn't. robrecht is one of the kindest, most patient posters on this entire website. You don't want him posting in your thread because you don't like that he counters your posts with well thought out, on topic replies, and because he has the patience to put up with your ridiculous nonsense for pages at a time.

Again, if he wishes robrecht may start a thread that addresses his own agenda. You may also do likewise.

If you wish to participate please respond to the subject of the thread.

[Bill the Cat]

This is the privilege of everyone on Tweb concerning their own threads. robrecht has a tendency to go off topic aggressively with an agenda that is not the topic of the thread.

Robrecht may start his own thread to address the issues he believes in.

If you wish to participate, please respond to the subject of the thread.

In case you missed it, Shunny, this area of the forum is under MY jurisdiction. In my capacity ad Department Head, I believe you are abusing the privilege we afford posters who have a history with others that tends to lead to flame wars at every interaction. However, for now, the owners are allowing this. Unless it is a subsequent moderator notice, this will be my last post on this thread.

[shunyadragon]

In case you missed it, Shunny, this area of the forum is under MY jurisdiction. In my capacity ad Department Head, I believe you are abusing the privilege we afford posters who have a history with others that tends to lead to flame wars at every interaction. However, for now, the owners are allowing this. Unless it is a subsequent moderator notice, this will be my last post on this thread.

I understand your authority, but your opinion should not interfere with your responsibility as a monitor of this thread.

[Sen McGlinn]

Robrecht is requested not to post in this thread.

I find that unfriendly, uncollegial ... indeed, unBahai. What would Abdu'l-Baha say?

In the Baha'i scripture there is a World Order described as replacing the other religions for those that believe in the Baha'i Faith, and yes the writings support the view that yes, this World Order will eventually replace older world orders. With your academic background you should know better.

Some Answered Questions (old translation), 152)

and in another place:

v1, p. 193)

Not only do the past religions still have their share of the Spirit, their institutions still have a future, although they like all other social institutions have to adapt to a globalising world and a postmodern society. Shoghi Effendi writes:

, 185)

In The Secret of Divine CivilizationThere and in revival of Christianity, Islam and other religions, which, because they rediscover the universal in their own teachings, will learn to work together. I do not know anywhere where they look forward to the extinction of other religions.

Baha'u'llah's prayer for Islam does seem relevant to me. I'm sorry you don't see it.

[shunyadragon]

One qualification on the definition of 'triumphalism' is that most religions, churches, theologians and philosophers consider it in a negative light. IF taken in a context as most do, I never proposed a 'Triumphalism' approach to the Baha'i Faith when I debate the issues concerning the problematic beliefs of ancient religions. I never judged any religion as totally false or condemned as many of other religions consider those who believe differently. Again I am debated individual issues concerning the reason I believe in the Baha'i Faith.